If we must have a task system, please implement retroactive rewards. Nothing is more annoying than killing 100 rats and THEN finding a "kill 10 rats" quest. Why not give me credit for what I've already done? Such a mechanic would give players a bit more freedom to roam about without worrying about missed quest rewards.
Props to Devious, DavisFlight, Zekiah, AlBQuirky, corpusc for their excellent posts.
I could do without the spam from the two resident quest-lovers, though.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Because they don't exist anymore. I don't see why people have such a hard time understanding that the classic games in the forms we love DO NOT EXIST ANYMORE. Or we'd be playing them, wouldn't we?
And no, I can't PvE like I did in DAoC in modern WoW clones, the mechanics are not designed for it.
Overhauling quests is easy, make them quests. Very rarely are "questa" really oldschool rpg quests. They are little more than errands. A quest should be long, have consequences and benefits and be able to incorporate multiple players. The outcomes must be real and finite. With the surge in technology, this should become something more prevalent in games. I equate things to Fallout 3 when the city was blown up. That's what i want in an MMO< where I (on an individual) level receive permanent modifications to my view of the game based on my past decisions.
We've been stuck with quest mechanics for a while and likely will be stuck with them forever. Kill, Fedex, Collect items from dead, Escort, Locate items in area, defend area against waves, click something to activate something. I am sure they're more but it's largely the gist of it.
OK, to the question how would you modify current MMORPG quest to bring freshness to SOME has become a stale aspect of MMORPG gaming?
What would really change the questing as we know it from today's MMOs would be to include the PnP questing style. Build a game engine that allows "Dungeon Masters". The company would need to hire lots of human Dungeon Master which will have to entertain paying customers.
Unfortunately this would be way too expensive (especially with the advent of F2P). And since the huge computing power of today isn't used to its fullest we will still see and keep seeing fast food style questing.
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Or you could, you know, balance those quests and tell players the reward ahead of time.
I'm guessing this is a response to my post.
If they're perfectly balanced with equal rewards, most players don't see the choice as mattering so they don't care that there's a choice.
If there isn't a perfect balance (one is faster/easier) or the rewards aren't even, then a lot of players see the easier path/better reward as the only choice so they don't see it as having a choice at all.
That's the problem with MMO vs single player. In single player you're not as worried about getting a lesser reward or doing something harder because you are by yourself, not competing or comparing with others. A lot of MMO players don't care about the "flavor" or the role-playing aspects of their characters simply the progress and the power.
Having played MMOs since The Realm all the way up to now, I've noticed that the majority of MMO players are focused on getting the best stuff and getting it the fastest. For that reason I don't think branching (choice) quest lines is the improvement that is needed. As per my earlier post in the thread I think it is that the current mechanics need more depth/better dressing. Or change the mentality of players so that the journey is the fun and it isn't about how quick you can get to the end, but that is far less likely to happen.
Actually...yeah just make the longer and harder path have the better reward. Even if both rewards are the same or equal in value the outcome can still be meaningful to the player (player kills the hero or lets the villan escape OR +5 Bombastic Bystander rep, -5 Daisy Defenders rep).
It is a shame that your perception of players is preventing you from seeing that this could add some depth to quests.
I would say that perception is reality.
There is an exception to every rule. However, too many gamers on these forums go along the lines of "I don't do that so clearly it isn't a problem" while ignoring that the MAJORITY do it.
Currently in MMOs, the majority of players are about efficiency and power. This has been proven time and time again in MMO after MMO. Companies HAVE put in branching quests and what I described is what happens every time. I didn't just randomly make it up.
By all means work on convincing MMO companies to implement choice questing. In the end players will in fact go for the efficiency or the better reward. It is also important to note I am not only talking about XP rewards as you said make the longer/harder quest give a bigger reward.
The important thing to look at when discussing a design is how it will most often be used, not how you hope it will be used. That is all I'm doing here. Personally I would enjoy making choices, but it simply wouldn't be a gain to the industry because the majority of players would approach it as I described.
Even in one of your examples of where there is an "even" reward because you get +5 rep to one of the NPC factions, there is a flaw. Players will still look at each faction and see which one has overall easier quests or better rewards on which one to go and therefore the choice isn't a choice anymore. If both factions are 100% equal in all forms, then again no one cares about them because the choices don't matter.
We've been stuck with quest mechanics for a while and likely will be stuck with them forever. Kill, Fedex, Collect items from dead, Escort, Locate items in area, defend area against waves, click something to activate something. I am sure they're more but it's largely the gist of it.
OK, to the question how would you modify current MMORPG quest to bring freshness to SOME has become a stale aspect of MMORPG gaming?
Quests are just excuses to go to point A to B, or defeat enemies. Why are they so much better in SP games like Dishonored? Because they are dressed up better with scripted events, voice over, and stuff like that.
So the answer is easy. Use more instances. Use more scripting. Use more VO. Dress it up like SP games.
like narius here says. how you fix multiplayer games is by making them more and more like single player and less and less like multiplayer.
/sarcasm
Yes. And this works perfectly in MP mode of Borderland, and other MP games. So yeah, if an idea work in another game style, try it.
Wasn't The Old Republic a "failure" because it was essentially a single player story game only?
Nope. TOR is a failure because it is not SP enough. Look at KOTOR games. Bioware obviously know how to make SP RPGs. TOR is much better off as a SP Game.
The failure is the MMO part.
hear that MMO devs?
the secret to making good MMOs is not to make them
The secret of making a game that does not fit to be a MMO is not to make a MMO .... yes .. that is quite correct. Not all games need to, or are better as, MMOs.
And if devs decide to make good games, instead of mediocre MMOs, i am all for it.
Comments
If we must have a task system, please implement retroactive rewards. Nothing is more annoying than killing 100 rats and THEN finding a "kill 10 rats" quest. Why not give me credit for what I've already done? Such a mechanic would give players a bit more freedom to roam about without worrying about missed quest rewards.
Props to Devious, DavisFlight, Zekiah, AlBQuirky, corpusc for their excellent posts.
I could do without the spam from the two resident quest-lovers, though.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
What do you mean they don't exist?
Did they close down EQ without telling anyone?
What would really change the questing as we know it from today's MMOs would be to include the PnP questing style. Build a game engine that allows "Dungeon Masters". The company would need to hire lots of human Dungeon Master which will have to entertain paying customers.
Unfortunately this would be way too expensive (especially with the advent of F2P). And since the huge computing power of today isn't used to its fullest we will still see and keep seeing fast food style questing.
I would say that perception is reality.
There is an exception to every rule. However, too many gamers on these forums go along the lines of "I don't do that so clearly it isn't a problem" while ignoring that the MAJORITY do it.
Currently in MMOs, the majority of players are about efficiency and power. This has been proven time and time again in MMO after MMO. Companies HAVE put in branching quests and what I described is what happens every time. I didn't just randomly make it up.
By all means work on convincing MMO companies to implement choice questing. In the end players will in fact go for the efficiency or the better reward. It is also important to note I am not only talking about XP rewards as you said make the longer/harder quest give a bigger reward.
The important thing to look at when discussing a design is how it will most often be used, not how you hope it will be used. That is all I'm doing here. Personally I would enjoy making choices, but it simply wouldn't be a gain to the industry because the majority of players would approach it as I described.
Even in one of your examples of where there is an "even" reward because you get +5 rep to one of the NPC factions, there is a flaw. Players will still look at each faction and see which one has overall easier quests or better rewards on which one to go and therefore the choice isn't a choice anymore. If both factions are 100% equal in all forms, then again no one cares about them because the choices don't matter.
Yes. And this works perfectly in MP mode of Borderland, and other MP games. So yeah, if an idea work in another game style, try it.
Think outside of the box.
The secret of making a game that does not fit to be a MMO is not to make a MMO .... yes .. that is quite correct. Not all games need to, or are better as, MMOs.
And if devs decide to make good games, instead of mediocre MMOs, i am all for it.