The first games I've played that reward you for dying are FPS games, like Call of Duty I think was first. Still play every CoD that comes out, and it really does it properly. After CoD, many FPS games (at least all the good ones) still give you points, money or whatever even if you die. After a match ends, you get quite a bit of points even if your team loses. This really rewards the player to keep playing, not rage quit if his team is losing.
Now how does that relate to MMOs?
Well take WoW (my first MMO, I played others before but I didn't like any of them)...what happens if your team loses or can't accomplish a raid? Well, after an hour and you can't move on...you don't get rewarded at all for it. GW2 at least lets you return to battle and you still get rewarded even if you die.
But many MMOs and especially sandbox MMOs do the opposite of reward you for playing. Instead, the more you play, the more you tend to lose. This seems like a really strange way to make a game that is fun to play. Take EVE or Darkfall, you take the time to get a ship or equipment...one player comes along and kills you...just lost everything. A game that is fun to play however, would cause some stat loss (or damage to a ship), but still give you exp or some money even if you die. Like what the good, modern, FPS games do. The more you play a FPS game (or a MMO like GW2) the more you get rewarded for it.
And I think this is where the future of the more popular, more FUN and entertaining MMOs will come from. They won't punish you and spit in your face for playing, but reward you.
NO MMOS should not reward you for dying.. in-fact the total opposite at the very least you should loose a ton of XP..
Call of Duty is one of the best FPS. And if it sucked, it wouldn't be the most popular one either. It proves that people don't want to be spat at or penalized for playing a game. Like if I play EVE, the game usually greatly penalizes you if you make a mistake. This isn't fun.
WoW I believe was first MMO to do a really lite death penalty, and this was a great change to the genre. There may have been some before, but not that I'm aware of. Then with GW2, it is even better. You die (but you get a second chance to live with downstate), but if you fully go down...you can go right back to the event and continue. That is fun, and entertainment. I don't want to be punished for playing a game.
Sandbox games make this mistake a lot, and why they tend to be really niche. While EVE does have 500k subs, that is nowhere the amount themepark games get. And a lot of this I believe, is because so many sandbox games punish you for playing them. I think this is where a lot go wrong and they end up not doing that great population wise.
Games are meant to have a learning curve and be tough at first, we actually ARE supposed to learn how to play them, unlike Call of Duty we're not gonna get rewarded for everything because that just appears to the youth that it's targeting truth, "Hey don't worry kiddo if you die you're still getting stuff!" It's stupid and honestly just a marketing trick that's working for them because of the majority age group that's playing it, also another thing is, you're blending MMOs with FPS qualities....so many reasons why that WOULDN'T work.
The first games I've played that reward you for dying are FPS games, like Call of Duty I think was first. Still play every CoD that comes out, and it really does it properly. After CoD, many FPS games (at least all the good ones) still give you points, money or whatever even if you die. After a match ends, you get quite a bit of points even if your team loses. This really rewards the player to keep playing, not rage quit if his team is losing.
Now how does that relate to MMOs?
Well take WoW (my first MMO, I played others before but I didn't like any of them)...what happens if your team loses or can't accomplish a raid? Well, after an hour and you can't move on...you don't get rewarded at all for it. GW2 at least lets you return to battle and you still get rewarded even if you die.
But many MMOs and especially sandbox MMOs do the opposite of reward you for playing. Instead, the more you play, the more you tend to lose. This seems like a really strange way to make a game that is fun to play. Take EVE or Darkfall, you take the time to get a ship or equipment...one player comes along and kills you...just lost everything. A game that is fun to play however, would cause some stat loss (or damage to a ship), but still give you exp or some money even if you die. Like what the good, modern, FPS games do. The more you play a FPS game (or a MMO like GW2) the more you get rewarded for it.
And I think this is where the future of the more popular, more FUN and entertaining MMOs will come from. They won't punish you and spit in your face for playing, but reward you.
sorry, but totaly no.
that's the main prob with mmos atm. dead is a joke.
thwe first mmos I PLAYED actually punished you for dying. death should have consequences and not reward you for your failure.
lose exp during your lvl process, maybe even make you lose your items.
the death we have atm is a blatant joke, and so is your demand... seriously, reward you for dying..... shesh.
ih your mmo the player dying the most would be the best then eh? seriously... get real kiddoe.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Agree. The problem is the people playing easy will want the same rewards as the people playing hard. You know, because we all deserve the same amount of loot for unequal skill and effort. lol
This problem is already solved by Diablo 3.
You get the same random rolls for loot, but hard gives you many more rolls.
I find it beyond distasteful using current conflicts for entertainment in a game when I have friends and sons of friends actually over in afgan.
I don't disagree.
However, you must know that there is a market for "realistic" games so that anyone with a computer/console can experience a little what "real" conflict is.
Have you seen all those hunting sim? I found the same problem with them.
Games are meant to have a learning curve and be tough at first, we actually ARE supposed to learn how to play them, unlike Call of Duty we're not gonna get rewarded for everything because that just appears to the youth that it's targeting truth, "Hey don't worry kiddo if you die you're still getting stuff!" It's stupid and honestly just a marketing trick that's working for them because of the majority age group that's playing it, also another thing is, you're blending MMOs with FPS qualities....so many reasons why that WOULDN'T work.
Obvious not.
Games are meant to be entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
Otherwise, why would all SP games have casual modes? And leveling easy in MMOs?
Oh, blending is good. Borderland ... blend of RPG and FPS ... great game.
Games are meant to have a learning curve and be tough at first, we actually ARE supposed to learn how to play them, unlike Call of Duty we're not gonna get rewarded for everything because that just appears to the youth that it's targeting truth, "Hey don't worry kiddo if you die you're still getting stuff!" It's stupid and honestly just a marketing trick that's working for them because of the majority age group that's playing it, also another thing is, you're blending MMOs with FPS qualities....so many reasons why that WOULDN'T work.
Obvious not.
Games are meant to be entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
Otherwise, why would all SP games have casual modes? And leveling easy in MMOs?
Oh, blending is good. Borderland ... blend of RPG and FPS ... great game.
I kind of agree and disagree at the same time.
Entertainment means different things to different people.
There is no right or wrong it just depends on who, what or where your trying to market.
Games are meant to have a learning curve and be tough at first, we actually ARE supposed to learn how to play them, unlike Call of Duty we're not gonna get rewarded for everything because that just appears to the youth that it's targeting truth, "Hey don't worry kiddo if you die you're still getting stuff!" It's stupid and honestly just a marketing trick that's working for them because of the majority age group that's playing it, also another thing is, you're blending MMOs with FPS qualities....so many reasons why that WOULDN'T work.
Obvious not.
Games are meant to be entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
Otherwise, why would all SP games have casual modes? And leveling easy in MMOs?
Oh, blending is good. Borderland ... blend of RPG and FPS ... great game.
I kind of agree and disagree at the same time.
Entertainment means different things to different people.
There is no right or wrong it just depends on who, what or where your trying to market.
Sure, some may find a steep learning curve entertaining .. but that is a secondary effect. The number one goal of an entertainment should be to entertain.
How to do it .. depends on the market and consumer preferences.
What you are asking in essence is for MMO's to get even easier than they already are. Nowadays MMO's are EZ mode to cater to folks like you who want their instant gratification. Smart business move on the part of gaming companies because we all know that by and large the vast majority of players don't like to work for their uber pixels. They dislike having to run through the hoops as it were in order to be "the best"
I remember in the "good ole days" prior to WoW,where getting a raid drop was reserved for those who along with their guild worked hard,put the time in and showed the "Drive and Determination" that was needed to actually beat the content and not have it handed to you on a silver platter. You saw a player standing somewhere with a spiffy shield,sword,robe or staff and you had to ask where they got it. Can you link it for me so I can see it? Etc etc.
Go back to your CoD and stay away from MMO's. They need to get harder,have a steeper learning curve and require the skill in order to get the "uber" pixels.
Go back to your CoD and stay away from MMO's. They need to get harder,have a steeper learning curve and require the skill in order to get the "uber" pixels.
They don't need to get harder. They need to have difficulty options so people don't whine as much.
MMO can learn from SP games that have difficulty options.
CoH, and the rest of the Cryptic games (not sure about Neverwinter) have the difficulty setting mechanic. Scales rewards with it too.
DDO also.
If one doesn't really like these games, well, that's fine. The only reason they are mentioned is because they contain that difficulty scaling mechanic and it can affect player experience rather dramatically based on implementation. It's certainly convenient too, because it enables players to find a bracket they are comfortable with and handle the game at the pace they want.
Yeah, rewards can somewhat get nerfed, but it's rewards built to task, they give you what you put it and the item works for the rage you're playing at.
More games would benefit from such implementations. I'd say the only thing to be wary of is making sure the rewards properly scale with difficulty otherwise it just becomes a new means for the 'path of least resistance' rather than being a form of gameplay convenience.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
NO MMOS should not reward you for dying.. in-fact the total opposite at the very least you should loose a ton of XP..
Games are meant to have a learning curve and be tough at first, we actually ARE supposed to learn how to play them, unlike Call of Duty we're not gonna get rewarded for everything because that just appears to the youth that it's targeting truth, "Hey don't worry kiddo if you die you're still getting stuff!" It's stupid and honestly just a marketing trick that's working for them because of the majority age group that's playing it, also another thing is, you're blending MMOs with FPS qualities....so many reasons why that WOULDN'T work.
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
sorry, but totaly no.
that's the main prob with mmos atm. dead is a joke.
thwe first mmos I PLAYED actually punished you for dying. death should have consequences and not reward you for your failure.
lose exp during your lvl process, maybe even make you lose your items.
the death we have atm is a blatant joke, and so is your demand... seriously, reward you for dying..... shesh.
ih your mmo the player dying the most would be the best then eh? seriously... get real kiddoe.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
This problem is already solved by Diablo 3.
You get the same random rolls for loot, but hard gives you many more rolls.
Works pretty well.
I don't disagree.
However, you must know that there is a market for "realistic" games so that anyone with a computer/console can experience a little what "real" conflict is.
Have you seen all those hunting sim? I found the same problem with them.
Obvious not.
Games are meant to be entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
Otherwise, why would all SP games have casual modes? And leveling easy in MMOs?
Oh, blending is good. Borderland ... blend of RPG and FPS ... great game.
I kind of agree and disagree at the same time.
Entertainment means different things to different people.
There is no right or wrong it just depends on who, what or where your trying to market.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Sure, some may find a steep learning curve entertaining .. but that is a secondary effect. The number one goal of an entertainment should be to entertain.
How to do it .. depends on the market and consumer preferences.
What you are asking in essence is for MMO's to get even easier than they already are. Nowadays MMO's are EZ mode to cater to folks like you who want their instant gratification. Smart business move on the part of gaming companies because we all know that by and large the vast majority of players don't like to work for their uber pixels. They dislike having to run through the hoops as it were in order to be "the best"
I remember in the "good ole days" prior to WoW,where getting a raid drop was reserved for those who along with their guild worked hard,put the time in and showed the "Drive and Determination" that was needed to actually beat the content and not have it handed to you on a silver platter. You saw a player standing somewhere with a spiffy shield,sword,robe or staff and you had to ask where they got it. Can you link it for me so I can see it? Etc etc.
Go back to your CoD and stay away from MMO's. They need to get harder,have a steeper learning curve and require the skill in order to get the "uber" pixels.
They don't need to get harder. They need to have difficulty options so people don't whine as much.
MMO can learn from SP games that have difficulty options.
^ What he said, I agree with.
CoH, and the rest of the Cryptic games (not sure about Neverwinter) have the difficulty setting mechanic. Scales rewards with it too.
DDO also.
If one doesn't really like these games, well, that's fine. The only reason they are mentioned is because they contain that difficulty scaling mechanic and it can affect player experience rather dramatically based on implementation. It's certainly convenient too, because it enables players to find a bracket they are comfortable with and handle the game at the pace they want.
Yeah, rewards can somewhat get nerfed, but it's rewards built to task, they give you what you put it and the item works for the rage you're playing at.
More games would benefit from such implementations. I'd say the only thing to be wary of is making sure the rewards properly scale with difficulty otherwise it just becomes a new means for the 'path of least resistance' rather than being a form of gameplay convenience.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin