Originally posted by achesoma Sadly, cash shop is where it's at. Companies make a killing from impulse shoppers. I'm pretty shocked players can buy end-game raid gear though. Even EA/SWTOR hasn't stooped that low yet lol. Might bite them in the ass in the long run since players won't really have carrot to chase after. Will be a nice little cash grab at first. Business is business.
You cant buy raid gear! they said this like 100000000000000 times!
A. If all you do is dungeon at the end game, Why the hell would you spend real money on Dungeon Gear? I mean..Dungeons aren't exactly hard.. and i certainly would never spend money on that type of gear that I can easily get...If you're dumb enough to do that then that's your own fault.
B. The Dungeon Gear you can buy is being sold not for you, the person who's end game is nothing but dungeons, but for Raiders...and people who only raid..That's who the target market for that gear is..Because if they want to level a new character for raids they can simply spend plat on the gear now, or buy it instead of gearing out their new toon. That is the targeted market for that.
C. Unless something gives you a massive advantage in PVP, and you can't obtain it in the game very easily, crying about this cash shop is pointless.. They're giving you all the content of their game for free..Don't bitch about them trying to make some money that's not putting you at a disadvantage.
It is so sad to see what this F2P debacle is doing to a genre I used to love. Paying to get gear that you would otherwise play to get? OMFG, its so stupid...
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
They have said time and time again the prices on the PTR will not be the same when F2P hits, they have repeated many many time things will change before release.
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
They have said time and time again the prices on the PTR will not be the same when F2P hits, they have repeated many many time things will change before release.
I have heard that from a lot of companies that make their failing games go F2P. Guess what... it doesn't change before release.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
They have said time and time again the prices on the PTR will not be the same when F2P hits, they have repeated many many time things will change before release.
I have heard that from a lot of companies that make their failing games go F2P. Guess what... it doesn't change before release.
I've heard alot of companies say they are going to make change before they release something, guess what .........they did.
To me, it seems like this whole concept of cash shops is evolving. Slowly changing what is okay to sell in the shop, and people are fine with it, it seems.
You say that as if cash shops have been the norm and widely accepted in western mmo's since creation. Five to eight years ago the majority of people who post on these forums (and others) would of been up in arms over just the thought of playing a mmo with a cash shop. Which they were. Especially on top of a pay-to-play models. No where near as many discussions and outrage as there was years ago when these things first started popping up in p2p's. Very few would post in favor of them and there were countless threads daily on any given gamin forum talking about them.
Agreed. I'm willing to bet most players in this thread were against cash shops, but since it's their beloved Rift, it's acceptable now. People were against Lotro, EQ2, and GW2's cash shops, but it's Rift, so it's alright.
More to the point though, there is nothing evolving about cash shops. It's just a concept to get more money. Simple as that. And Rift isn't evolving into anything different. It's selling gear for convenience, and that's the main issue.
The line between convenience & p2w is being blurred here and the Rift loyalists cannot see it clearly.
@Observer,I for one have never had a problem with cash shop's,unless they really truly offer a distinct advantage over non payer's.I've always felt that leveling faster/increased drop rate/healing pots/talent point's and so on are not ptw because you can get those things just by playing the game.
The fact Trion is selling gear is fine with me,because it can be acquired in game also.There's also better gear to be had.
How can this be confused with what would be ptw?
To me a ptw would be pay x amount and get a lvl 40 character with top gear for that lvl and 20 plat,just for using the cc.Now that is what ptw look's like to me.Certainly not boost's/talent's/drop's and such.
Opinion's vary and that's fine,but at the end of the day,does it affect your gameplay in any way?Or is it just something you're stuck on and can't get past?
Pay 2 Win = Paying real life money for winning. Winning what exactly? Winning an advantage over others. Whether it's due to convenience or stats. That still defines paying to win by having an advantage.
The opposite of Pay 2 Win is experiencing the content on the same playing field as others. The other factor is time, which cannot be controlled, but real money transactions can, depending on the company.
You and others are trying to justify that "inconsequential" stats is not pay to win, but that's just an opinion, and not a fact. The fact is, it's paying to have an advantage, no matter how miniscule the convenience is.
It has nothing to do with being stuck on anything. I'm just here to clarify the definitions of pay to win.
I whole heartedly disagree Observer.To me you're confusing convenience with an actual advantage.You even use the word convenience,If a person has an xp boost or some such,why do you care?So what if they get to max lvl before you.Does that somehow ruin your gameplay/breakfast?
Honestly it puzzles me why so many people get upset over things in an mmo,that are just temporary bonuses.It's not like they have a permanent gold boost or something.On top of that,what exactly are they winning?That they can say nanner nanner nanner I hit cap before you?
What you consider ptw is far away from my definition.Saving time is convenience.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
The cash shop is so full of weapons, armor, mounts, and pretty much everything. My guild defends it saying it isn't top raid gear... but who cares. I am so tired of watching games I love go F2P or shut down. I hate cash shops, and this one just takes the cake. They even sell bags! A top end bag goes for 4000P or roughly $20!!!
They have said time and time again the prices on the PTR will not be the same when F2P hits, they have repeated many many time things will change before release.
I have heard that from a lot of companies that make their failing games go F2P. Guess what... it doesn't change before release.
I've heard alot of companies say they are going to make change before they release something, guess what .........they did.
You just changed the topic from companies saying they will change things before it goes FREE TO PLAY to when they release something. Which is correct but a generalization.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Originally posted by Gravarg I've been a player since Beta, and I was thinking about leaving just because of the f2p. I guess I'll have to go back to WoW, it's the only P2P left anymore lol.
i m taking the opposite way. leaving wow for rift after 8 years. no more fun for me in wow even if its p2p.
When both have subs you prefer WoW but if one is free youll go for the free option. So you are implying you'd rather play WoW than Rift even if you arent finding it fun anymore.
Rift and WoW are in the same boat as far as most things go. WoW has better lore, but they've had decades to build that lore. I do like the steampunky Defiant though. The only real reason I'm going to WoW is I really don't like F2P that much. They're fun for a month, maybe two, but the community in F2P games just isn't something I'm willing to put up with. I got 2 kids of my own, I don't need thousands more around me hehe.
talks about kids in the community ruining his experience, then says he is going back to wow to prevent it. /laugh.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Originally posted by Gravarg I've been a player since Beta, and I was thinking about leaving just because of the f2p. I guess I'll have to go back to WoW, it's the only P2P left anymore lol.
i m taking the opposite way. leaving wow for rift after 8 years. no more fun for me in wow even if its p2p.
When both have subs you prefer WoW but if one is free youll go for the free option. So you are implying you'd rather play WoW than Rift even if you arent finding it fun anymore.
Rift and WoW are in the same boat as far as most things go. WoW has better lore, but they've had decades to build that lore. I do like the steampunky Defiant though. The only real reason I'm going to WoW is I really don't like F2P that much. They're fun for a month, maybe two, but the community in F2P games just isn't something I'm willing to put up with. I got 2 kids of my own, I don't need thousands more around me hehe.
talks about kids in the community ruining his experience, then says he is going back to wow to prevent it. /laugh.
Laugh's with Koro
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Changed my mind, gonna give the game a shot as F2P. If the gear in the auction house ever gets to the point where it is comparable to top end raiding or pvp gear, I will just stop playing again.... no skin off my back.
The fact that all the actual game content besides expansion souls is available, along with no race restrictions / equipment restrictions seems like a pretty good f2p model. I also have fond memories of raiding Hammerknell. Akylios was an amazingly fun fight for a final raid boss.
Gear in store is crap FYI. Best you can buy for real money is expert gear, which is no where close to BiS raid relic items. As a top raider I can tell you it won't be p2w.
Originally posted by hitsuji182 Gear in store is crap FYI. Best you can buy for real money is expert gear, which is no where close to BiS raid relic items. As a top raider I can tell you it won't be p2w.
That is all I needed to know. Time to get my rogue to cap and get back to raiding.
The other day, I was Playing my Necro in GW2 and decided I wanted to respec into a full condition build. I used Karma to purchase 4 of the 6 pieces of armor with Rabid stats that I needed. Unfortunately, the coat and boots are not available from Karma. So, my options were to do the same thing I did on my Mesmer, Run Honor of the Waves over and over until I had the tokens to buy the 2 pieces from that vendor, OR, the choice I made was to buy some gems from the cash shop, and convert 20G worth. I then purchased level 80 exotic versions of Khibron's Coat and Boots off the TP.
Guys, Stop raising red flags on the P2W scam where there aren't any. Paying to bypass content only to a certain point, is NOT pay to win. If the BiS gear can ONLY be obtained through game play, then you cannot pay to win. You must play to win.
Maybe rephrase it from Pay to Win to Pay to Fast Forward... same outcome... players hate that other players can get/do something in half the time it took them. They want to be top dog first and don't like that their throne is but fleeting.
The whole game is about swapping gear. Gear changes all the time... endlessly. People tire of the grind so they simplify things by buying it. End result is the same. They still have to swap gear like everyone else. They just do it differently.
The other day, I was Playing my Necro in GW2 and decided I wanted to respec into a full condition build. I used Karma to purchase 4 of the 6 pieces of armor with Rabid stats that I needed. Unfortunately, the coat and boots are not available from Karma. So, my options were to do the same thing I did on my Mesmer, Run Honor of the Waves over and over until I had the tokens to buy the 2 pieces from that vendor, OR, the choice I made was to buy some gems from the cash shop, and convert 20G worth. I then purchased level 80 exotic versions of Khibron's Coat and Boots off the TP.
Guys, Stop raising red flags on the P2W scam where there aren't any. Paying to bypass content only to a certain point, is NOT pay to win. If the BiS gear can ONLY be obtained through game play, then you cannot pay to win. You must play to win.
Unfortunately, you used one of the ONLY games with a cash shop that isn't insane as an example.
Originally posted by Battlerock F2p doesnt mean free. These cash shops just justify my wow sub all the more.
f2p means spend as much as you want. I've played star trek for free, lotro for free, perfect world for free, runes of magic for free, path of exile for free, even a little allods for free. I started DDO for free and now pay a little once in a while.
All content in RIFT is free as of Tuesday. Someone wanting to start a new MMO can play RIFT for free all the way to max level. Or maybe they'll spend a few dollars on bag space or extra character slots. Someone with an, "I want it all now," mentality might charge up several hundred dollars over the next year, but that's on them.
A new player in WoW, on the other hand, will need to purchase all expansions to get to max level plus pay the subscription after the first month. Even getting all 5 iterations of WoW on sale, that person will spend around $230 to play WoW for a year.
So you can keep your WoW if you want. What the heck? If you're going to spend that much money just to be allowed to play a game, it might as well be for a game as good as WoW. Most RIFT players, though, will play a good game and spend a whole lot less money than you over the next year.
Is there any way to convert in game gold to RP, like in GW2? It's a system I've quickly learned to to love, as it has allowed me to buy several cash shop items without actually ever paying a real life dime.
Originally posted by Homitu Is there any way to convert in game gold to RP, like in GW2? It's a system I've quickly learned to to love, as it has allowed me to buy several cash shop items without actually ever paying a real life dime.
If a player with store credits wants in-game gold he can use his credits to purchase "rex," a consumable item that gives a player in-game 1250 store credits. That person would then sell the rex on auction or in trade for platinum. So if you had a bunch of platinum you could purchase rex from a player to get your credits.
Originally posted by Torvaldr I've been playing on PTS off and on for the last week. I really like how the cash shop is set up. I like how it gives you the choice of what currency you want to use.
And Torvaldr is one of the most critical Rift players around here folks...
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Originally posted by Grunty Equivalent bags are readily available from other players in the auction house. This isn't an asian game where the only way to get more bag space is to pay cash for it.
Does it matter.... you can buy the currency for the shop from other players too. Doesn't change the fact that they are doing it.
I am so tired of Free 2 Play games and cash shops, that I am writing off the 11 months left on my year sub, because they will not refund it.
Do a charge back with whatever form of payment you used. Lately, I've been seeing many posters claiming to get full refunds this way in various forums such as D3, Neverwinter... basically any MMO out there. Google it. Remember, you have buyer protections when using Paypal or any other bank debit/credit card.
Edit: I just saw an earlier post where OP says that didn't work. I guess it pays to use only credit/paypal and leave debit for groceries.
A. If all you do is dungeon at the end game, Why the hell would you spend real money on Dungeon Gear? I mean..Dungeons aren't exactly hard.. and i certainly would never spend money on that type of gear that I can easily get...If you're dumb enough to do that then that's your own fault.
B. The Dungeon Gear you can buy is being sold not for you, the person who's end game is nothing but dungeons, but for Raiders...and people who only raid..That's who the target market for that gear is..Because if they want to level a new character for raids they can simply spend plat on the gear now, or buy it instead of gearing out their new toon. That is the targeted market for that.
C. Unless something gives you a massive advantage in PVP, and you can't obtain it in the game very easily, crying about this cash shop is pointless.. They're giving you all the content of their game for free..Don't bitch about them trying to make some money that's not putting you at a disadvantage.
Mostly because you have to compete on rolls with 4 other party members. Easier to just buy it with money you would have used anyway on sub time.
Right now Trion is in a big hole with investors. They spend over $100 Million on defiance and if I remember correctly end of nations is nearing $80 Million and is going to be F2P right out of the gate. Storm Legion was good however there are few players left in todays MMOs that want to do the gear grind just to be in end game. So Trion right now is trying very hard to get as much money as they can to pay off investors. What happened when they cannot pay off investors. Yep thats right shut down.
Comments
You cant buy raid gear! they said this like 100000000000000 times!
A. If all you do is dungeon at the end game, Why the hell would you spend real money on Dungeon Gear? I mean..Dungeons aren't exactly hard.. and i certainly would never spend money on that type of gear that I can easily get...If you're dumb enough to do that then that's your own fault.
B. The Dungeon Gear you can buy is being sold not for you, the person who's end game is nothing but dungeons, but for Raiders...and people who only raid..That's who the target market for that gear is..Because if they want to level a new character for raids they can simply spend plat on the gear now, or buy it instead of gearing out their new toon. That is the targeted market for that.
C. Unless something gives you a massive advantage in PVP, and you can't obtain it in the game very easily, crying about this cash shop is pointless.. They're giving you all the content of their game for free..Don't bitch about them trying to make some money that's not putting you at a disadvantage.
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They have said time and time again the prices on the PTR will not be the same when F2P hits, they have repeated many many time things will change before release.
I have heard that from a lot of companies that make their failing games go F2P. Guess what... it doesn't change before release.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I've heard alot of companies say they are going to make change before they release something, guess what .........they did.
I whole heartedly disagree Observer.To me you're confusing convenience with an actual advantage.You even use the word convenience,If a person has an xp boost or some such,why do you care?So what if they get to max lvl before you.Does that somehow ruin your gameplay/breakfast?
Honestly it puzzles me why so many people get upset over things in an mmo,that are just temporary bonuses.It's not like they have a permanent gold boost or something.On top of that,what exactly are they winning?That they can say nanner nanner nanner I hit cap before you?
What you consider ptw is far away from my definition.Saving time is convenience.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
You just changed the topic from companies saying they will change things before it goes FREE TO PLAY to when they release something. Which is correct but a generalization.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
talks about kids in the community ruining his experience, then says he is going back to wow to prevent it. /laugh.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Laugh's with Koro
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
Changed my mind, gonna give the game a shot as F2P. If the gear in the auction house ever gets to the point where it is comparable to top end raiding or pvp gear, I will just stop playing again.... no skin off my back.
The fact that all the actual game content besides expansion souls is available, along with no race restrictions / equipment restrictions seems like a pretty good f2p model. I also have fond memories of raiding Hammerknell. Akylios was an amazingly fun fight for a final raid boss.
That is all I needed to know. Time to get my rogue to cap and get back to raiding.
By the way, hows the raiding in Storm Legion?
The other day, I was Playing my Necro in GW2 and decided I wanted to respec into a full condition build. I used Karma to purchase 4 of the 6 pieces of armor with Rabid stats that I needed. Unfortunately, the coat and boots are not available from Karma. So, my options were to do the same thing I did on my Mesmer, Run Honor of the Waves over and over until I had the tokens to buy the 2 pieces from that vendor, OR, the choice I made was to buy some gems from the cash shop, and convert 20G worth. I then purchased level 80 exotic versions of Khibron's Coat and Boots off the TP.
Guys, Stop raising red flags on the P2W scam where there aren't any. Paying to bypass content only to a certain point, is NOT pay to win. If the BiS gear can ONLY be obtained through game play, then you cannot pay to win. You must play to win.
Maybe rephrase it from Pay to Win to Pay to Fast Forward... same outcome... players hate that other players can get/do something in half the time it took them. They want to be top dog first and don't like that their throne is but fleeting.
The whole game is about swapping gear. Gear changes all the time... endlessly. People tire of the grind so they simplify things by buying it. End result is the same. They still have to swap gear like everyone else. They just do it differently.
Unfortunately, you used one of the ONLY games with a cash shop that isn't insane as an example.
Neverwinter? Disgusting.
SWTOR? Disgusting.
Star Trek Online? Disgusting!
Rift? You guessed it! Pretty disgusting.
f2p means spend as much as you want. I've played star trek for free, lotro for free, perfect world for free, runes of magic for free, path of exile for free, even a little allods for free. I started DDO for free and now pay a little once in a while.
All content in RIFT is free as of Tuesday. Someone wanting to start a new MMO can play RIFT for free all the way to max level. Or maybe they'll spend a few dollars on bag space or extra character slots. Someone with an, "I want it all now," mentality might charge up several hundred dollars over the next year, but that's on them.
A new player in WoW, on the other hand, will need to purchase all expansions to get to max level plus pay the subscription after the first month. Even getting all 5 iterations of WoW on sale, that person will spend around $230 to play WoW for a year.
So you can keep your WoW if you want. What the heck? If you're going to spend that much money just to be allowed to play a game, it might as well be for a game as good as WoW. Most RIFT players, though, will play a good game and spend a whole lot less money than you over the next year.
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
Citizen: Preach your filth elsewhere!
If a player with store credits wants in-game gold he can use his credits to purchase "rex," a consumable item that gives a player in-game 1250 store credits. That person would then sell the rex on auction or in trade for platinum. So if you had a bunch of platinum you could purchase rex from a player to get your credits.
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
And Torvaldr is one of the most critical Rift players around here folks...
Do a charge back with whatever form of payment you used. Lately, I've been seeing many posters claiming to get full refunds this way in various forums such as D3, Neverwinter... basically any MMO out there. Google it. Remember, you have buyer protections when using Paypal or any other bank debit/credit card.
Edit: I just saw an earlier post where OP says that didn't work. I guess it pays to use only credit/paypal and leave debit for groceries.
Mostly because you have to compete on rolls with 4 other party members. Easier to just buy it with money you would have used anyway on sub time.