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The whistleblower says they are spying on us
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Who gives a crap. I mean honestly, Who? Majority of people put their information out there and much more than they ever imagined which can pretty much map every little detail about them. It doesn't take a sophisticated tool set to map someones life style, their habits, career, or any other more personal information. It can all be socially engineered from them or searched and found with very little effort and zero technical knowledge. People love telling the world (good and bad) their personal information. Google and Facebook probably know more about a lot of people than those people know about themselves.
Top it off with bad habits like using the same email for everything over the past 10 years. Re-using passwords. Hell Facebook had some tool that was suppose to make it easier to search peoples habits, likes, and comments coming out soon. Available for everyone to use which makes it even easier. Last I heard it was in beta. So there's really nothing to see here except sensationalism. I haven't heard anything about Facebook's stock dropping or anything.
So what's all the fuss about? Are the same people worried about this going to give up going online at all? NSA doesn't need access in order to map most peoples lives know everything there is to know about them. It's all readily and easily available to every single person in the world who has electricity, access to the internet, and a little time to spare.
So my question to those worried about this is what are you doing online that you're so worried about? The cats long been out of the bag.
Because your wall of text is nothing but sensationalism.. These companies have been tracking everything you do since creation. You're just NOW worried about it? You think they simply discard that information? Why are you so scared and freaking out? This is nothing new. Things like Google Glass, smart phones, street cameras must really have you paranoid. Going to walk around with a bag over your head?
The point being the time to have cared has long passed. Everything you do online is logged by these companies. If not Google then some other company. If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about at this point. It's called picking and choosing ones battles. This ones long been lost. Makes good headlines though. Have fun taking down Google, your ISP, Facebook, Steam..... The list is just huge! (Nothing against Steam, the reason I mentioned it is because I have seen first hand how a minor comment or a linking of ones account to something else has pointed right at more personal information of people.)
Best option at this point is to practice your own privacy habits. Things like using a clean email for every site or game. Never giving your real location or any personal information no matter how harmless it might seem. Never linking any account to another. Using a VPN. Using a clean and random password for every thing. Never reusing the same screen name. Never pay bills or bank, ect online. Even then your information is still out there.. If you think the only foot print which you have left is what you ate or how you picked your nose you're naive.
You can just take a hammer to your computer and hope there isn't that much of "you" out there. Or deal with it at this point. What they do with the information they get and how they filter it might be the right fight. But simply going bonkers because some sensationalism about stuff that's been going on by private companies for years now. That's a long lost battle.
"What have you done online which makes you think you're so interesting to the point of triggering a red light in the system."
You seem to think/act like you've been so anonymous up until these headlines.That the terabytes of information that Google stores or any other company for that matter is just sitting there doing nothing. That Google or any other company hasn't been storing and selling this information. Someone like Bradley Manning a hero to you? With his reckless (unedited to protect people) leaks which endangered people who helped us get rid of bad guys?
Why are you just now worried about being tracked and getting all upset over it. Groups like Anonymous have been releasing databases of emails and personal information for years for the world to see. Good guys in your opinion? Just trying to stick it to the "Man"?
Why does the intelligence community going after people who wish to do harm upset you? If it wasn't for the intelligence community and programs like Prism there would of been more instances of things like Boston bombings. They don't give two hoots about you unless of course.... So my question and point is very relevant. "What makes you think that your so special? That you stand out among terabytes of information. As mentioned the same information private companies have been storing / building up over the years and selling it."
You seem like you're upset that they are putting this information to good use but no problem with a private company selling it off. What are you going to do when things like Google Glass start appearing on the market. Walk around with a paper bag over you head.
No. I think you're missing the point. It only upsets you now, enough to post because maybe you just now realized just how much about you is out there. Fear not, they don't give two hoots about majority of people and what kind of underwear they are wearing." I got 99 problems but Prism isn't one of them.
When they start profiling people based on political affiliations or their life style for instance, maybe you have a discussion. At this point they don't give two shits about you or me. They don't even know who we are unless you trigger their system (filters or whatever). If you're so worried about privacy why do you want to even standout on this site rather than blend in. I mean really. Why are you even online at this point since if it bothers you so much.
Edit to add: Practice some personal privacy habits like mentioned earlier and that's more than enough to keep you hidden from a good portion of people. If that's all you're worried about. Fearing the intelligence agency at this point is well pointless because they don't care about you. They don't even know who you are.
Dear Attorney General Holder and Director Mueller
Google has worked tremendously hard over the past fifteen years to earn our users’ trust. For example, we offer encryption across our services; we have hired some of the best security engineers in the world; and we have consistently pushed back on overly broad government requests for our users’ data.
We have always made clear that we comply with valid legal requests. And last week, the Director of National Intelligence acknowledged that service providers have received Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) requests.
Assertions in the press that our compliance with these requests gives the U.S. government unfettered access to our users’ data are simply untrue. However, government nondisclosure obligations regarding the number of FISA national security requests that Google receives, as well as the number of accounts covered by those requests, fuel that speculation.
We therefore ask you to help make it possible for Google to publish in our Transparency Report aggregate numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures—in terms of both the number we receive and their scope. Google’s numbers would clearly show that our compliance with these requests falls far short of the claims being made. Google has nothing to hide.
Google appreciates that you authorized the recent disclosure of general numbers for national security letters. There have been no adverse consequences arising from their publication, and in fact more companies are receiving your approval to do so as a result of Google’s initiative. Transparency here will likewise serve the public interest without harming national security.
We will be making this letter public and await your response.
David Drummond
Chief Legal Officer
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/asking-us-government-to-allow-google-to.html
I'll take Google's word over any unethical leakers any day of the weak. Especially if that leaker has to run to another country.
-The data in question is already known by various groups, many of which you should trust a hell of a lot less than the NSA.
-The NSA is interested in far bigger fish than whatever gossip you talk about with your friends. They don't care, have no reason to care, and would likely be bored out of their minds by whatever you think is worth protecting.
-The data in question is far too massive for anyone to actively look through. Just one year's worth of that junk is far more than every single NSA agent could collectively sift through if they spend their entire lives at the effort. Unless you do something to attract the active attention of the NSA, they won't even know your name, much less whatever personal "secrets" you think are so important. (its not really a secret if it was out there to begin with, but whatever) The data is almost exclusively monitored by automated computer programs that look for patterns and connections.
-At the end of the day, programs like this help stop active threats against innocent people. I know of at least one major attack that was intercepted specifically because of this program. So, concerning your friend with the medical problems, just how many innocent lives do you think it is worth to keep that information off of a HD where no one will likely ever look at it?
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
I've been trying to point out point 1 every single post so far. And that it's been going on long before 2001. Point 4 doesn't even matter tbh because of point 3. No one at the NSA even reads that stuff, if any of his info was ever there to begin with. Way to much of it. Well that is unless the OP thinks they should of been reading it. Which is why I asked what they have been doing that they think would make them stand out. Basically been trying to figure out why they are acting like any of this is anything new.
Acting all upset because some twat did a dump and didn't have enough conviction to stand by his actions but ran to another country. But hey they'll take the word of that guy over Google which has a vested interest in protecting the information which they've gathered, for whatever it is that they do with it. I really do try to figure out where people are coming from with their opinions. However I just don't get this instance. Sensationalism, conspiracy theory, paranoia, anti gov. I don't know. Really wasn't trying to come off negative towards him if I even was. Which I don't think did. It's just like they posted as if they've been in a cave the past 10-20 years. I dunno. Don't care anymore. I Guess i was just fascinated they acted all freaked out like this sort of thing has just now started happening. "Bitch bitch moan.. blah blah blah.." So whatever.
Until people start getting profiled for everyday activities that are legal. Really nothing to see here to be truthful. Just some other system data mining all the information that's out there. Or trying to at least. Don't want to be easily tracked? Take steps to prevent it.
Watched part of the hearings (couldn't watch the whole thing) and there was nothing surprising about them. Stuff that was already out there that anyone who reads the news was aware of. Costs bucket loads of money. They've amped up recruitment and training. Did I mention the price tag? Oh, they'll release without compromising security just how many real world attacks they've stopped over the years. Said dozens. They want to harden our infrastructure in many different ways. Private and public sectors. Politicians trying to get air-time. Asking the same questions over and over as if the answer was going to change.
With everything that has been coming to light about this guy and his claims. What exactly is so bad about Prism or the NSA. Because as of yet nothing has turned up other than some people are just shocked by it's scale. The press and politicians would of been all over if anything had.
What has come to out is this guy shopped his story at more than one news agency. He wanted it rushed out the door with zero time to do fact check it or ask questions. One would not agree to his terms the other would. SENSATIONALISM sells.
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
The NSA needs a court order to do anything involving an American. Nothing has been shown or come to light which proves this hasn't been the case. But you'll take this guys word at face value over everything else which has come to light.
http://www.infosecisland.com
So why did he run to China? Maybe:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk
http://edition.cnn.com
*All links shortened just to keep this kind of clean and short. They all lead to articles on those sites.*
People are freaking out over nothing, you are correct. Even though that was sarcasm. It's kind of refreshing that the only scandal which has risen from this is that someone was given access to classified information who should of never of been given that access. Just another twat who will eventually spend a good portion of his life behind bars.
Funny how people love to cling to a certain document. Base their whole belief system around it. Though can't put a little faith into the system which operates based on that documents guidelines. So far nothings been shown to confirm his claims that the NSA has not been operating with nothing but professionalism. Guilty until proven innocent, I guess. Guardian knew this and that's why they accepted Snowden's terms of 72 hours to rush the story. Sensationalism, it sells.
They aren't spying on you without probable cause. Going through the legal procedures that are in place. Same as any other law enforcement agency.
Google isn't just handing over information when asked.
So yeah I have no problems with anything they are doing at this point. Far more worrisome stuff going on other than these guys. Don't put it out in public if you don't want it gobbled up by an automated process. Common knowledge. It's pretty much been the case since creation of the web. Same concept as if we were in person. "Don't say it if you don't want others to hear it." So yeah just another organization sifting through all the crap that's out there. Except that they are doing it order to find those 5 people out of billions who want to blow shit up or to better protect our interests.
Peoples discomfort over this does not trump anyone else's rights to have a safe existence. To not have their public spaces, work place, home (ect) blown up. Their identity stolen. Their life's work and/or trade secrets stolen. Their safety in question because of what they do or have done (legal). Just goes on and on. Lot of people out there who can't live and let live sadly so certain things must be done to protect those that can and want to harm others in various ways.
On the other hand nothings shown that the NSA has trampled any rights of citizens who are uncomfortable with this. Which beliefs I have to believe stem from what could happen later on down the road. For good reason I guess. But to automatically take Snowdan's word at face value over everything else that is coming to light after some time has passed?
The op mocked me called me a few things. Yet here we are still him babbling on about them reading his emails. Throwing around a constitutional rights as if they automatically make anything he wants to believe true. So again I ask. What is it exactly that he's been up to that makes him think the NSA wants to pry into his life over all the other people in the world.
P.S. I just got this conversation flagged and in the system according to what some say. Doubtful. However everyone /wave! But I'll play along for a moment. How many times are words and phrases similar to that used in our daily lives. Or how about simply on these forums. Ok, lets assume this thread has been picked up. Because it's out in the public and all. I wonder how many milliseconds it took after being picked up to have been shot out the ass end of whatever process is in place. Big deal.
Though on the other hand maybe that bored NSA worker (the one spying on us all) will farm my epics for me while I am at work or asleep? Maybe take my character for a stroll and bust-a-cap in the Lich King's ass for me? It's been awhile since my character has had a chance to do that.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Every time you load a web site, you send a request to a website and get a response, like this:
You >>>> ISP >>>> Backbone >>>> Webserver
You <<<< ISP <<<< Backbone <<<< Webserver
In order to operate, your ISP has been required by the government since 1998 to have an FBI program called Carnivore to look though both the request and response and filter them for keywords, if there's keywords it sends your request and response to NSA in northern Virginia.
If this thread is flagged, then every time this thread is loaded, the NSA stores a new copy of all the text on the viewed page of the thread.
NSA computers don't have any way to tell whats real and what's not, and there's far too much data stored for them to have humans look through it to get rid of the junk... So they just keep it stored forever, but they are running out of room-space to store all the servers to store all the data, hence the new data storage facility in Utah.
They shut down the R&P section a while back, and for a good while were brutal about weeding out any and all threads that touched on those subjects, I'm rather surprised that this thread is still up. This used to be a very lively section of the forums, but ever since the more interesting topics became verboten, most people interested in serious debate drifted off. I only check here about once a week unless something interesting like this pops up.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
That's fine. Wasn't sure how it worked exactly just knew they were looking for patterns in some form or fashion and it was all automated because of the amount of data involved. I wasn't the one saying that they were reading anything. That was the OP, just to say.
I don't care what they do with it if it's out in public. More or less what you quoted was me joking at his constantly going on about them reading his emails and personal information. They aren't and can't unless he's putting that personal information in public format. Or they have gone through the legal process to obtain his information.
Honestly, I know what it is and people just want to bitch about the whole situation because they are uncomfortable with what's going on even though it isn't what Snowden's claiming.
It just keeps getting better though. Snowden's got a past online history which has slowly been coming to light. Talking about sticking it to the "man" and how evil corporations are. Some of it was hard to tell if real or not before. Kind of wanted to add them when I put links up in the earlier post. I didn't because they just didn't seem credible enough. However more credible sources have been emerging. http://news.yahoo.com/while-working-spies-snowden-secretly-015908216.html the more credible.
All Snowden's claims have been unraveling in front of everyone's eyes. I don't care if someones uncomfortable with what's going on. The op just took this guys claims and accepted them as if they were true.
They shut them down because they became a place full of racist or hate spam. Not by everyone but a good portion of people. At some point or another I think any regular to the section was trolling pretty hard. People thought that the section being un-moderated meant that is was ok for them to spew whatever hateful thing they could think of in order to get under someones skin. They started out alright. But took a huge nose dive rather quickly.
And at the end.. just wow.. I missed the events of the last day. But caught a Google cache of what was the final straw. Wasn't pretty. Still unsure of what that was suppose to mean. Never heard that phrase used before. Kind of surprised this thread is still here as well. Amana must be giving a little head room or on vacation.
Smash your computer if you don't like it....Infact your life would be better off with out it.
When I first got on the internet long time ago, I knew nothing about it. BUT one thing I did know, Is your opening yourself up to a lot of people.
Watch one of the first Law And Order episodes...They would always hack into the pups computer. That was from a TV show back in the late 90s.