I would say whats the point of this article. The game is designed the way it is and if you don't like that design, just avoid the game. No game appeals to everyone and this ones no different. I liked Skyrim, but I understand this game is going to be different in part because it is a online game. If they designed the game the way many here want it to be, I would move on to a different game that was more to my tastes. Can't figure out why peeps insist that a game designer change his game to meet their demands when they know in advance others like the way it is being designed. Just move on and let others enjoy a game they wanted.
If you read enough of the reviews most of the people that have played the demo, Say they felt like they were stepping into an Elder Scrolls game. that covers Universe/essence/ environment, and for me that is one of the CORE elements of a game.
Any game can make you "feel" like the game is what its supposed to be in a 30min - 1hr demo.
The Devs designed it that way.
How does it feel after 8hrs? A week? 1st month?
Hell, SWTOR "feels" really fun and Star Warsy the first hour of play.
A week/month later, not so much.
Very Good point . Never thought about that. this is why i love constructive conversations..makes ya think . And I played SWTOR so i know what you mean.
I did attack and defend citys in Skyrim together with guards in TESO PVP i will do the same just replace the guards with people.
Honestly i have a hard time seeing whats wrong with that O.o.
+1
Exactly what I was going to say. When you're playing Skyrim, you're actually playing a PvP game, you just don't know it. The real question is do you want to be able to just faceroll the game or do you want a challenge? I would even go as far as to say that this is the more "realistic" case. I mean do you really think that you could take down an entire army single-handedly and then run away anytime that you see a bear? Or a giant?
I will be the first to say I'm not a fan of PvP, but Elder Scrolls is a place where PvP belongs. It doesn't need to be forced to fit the lore and it's not gratuitous in any way. This is the way it is and always has been. Only thing is that now you will be fighting against equals (well mostly equals).
At this point I'm wonder why they're making this game.
Skyrim, and the series, are amazing games. As I play Skyrim and have friends in my vent playing Skyrim, what we say is that the only thing that could make it better would be to be able to play it together. But we'd be fine with co-op, our own server or game, our own world responding only to us.
I'm worried that with TESO the parts that make elder scrolls the best will be obliterated. The immersion, depth, and amazingness of it all will be shot when xXDrizzt99Xx and other morons are flashing across your screen and general chat is full of child mentalities talking about WoW.
The other thing is, everything I'm hearing about this game sucks. Skyrim and the series are amazing PVE games - they do PVE content in a way that few can match. Huge open worlds full of endless things to do the way you want to do them. Millions of players doing this single player PVE content.
So...what're they doing? Making tons of PVP stuff for the game. Really? PvP has nothing at all to do with ES games. Why? Why even have PvP in TESO AT ALL? MMORPG PvP sucks under the best of circumstances but in a game like TESO where you have few skills and use two buttons to fight...the PvP will be horribly boring.
And really, is PvP what fans want? All the millions who have played this solo PvE game said, you know what, what would REALLY make this game better would be if you could PvP with these characters doing stuff that has nothing to do with the rest of the game (like all MMO PvP).
I just don't get it.
In a recent interview the TESO dude was asked about what kind of group content there was and he says, well we have PvP, there's that. Really? You pinheaded idea of group content for the online version of one of the best PvE franchises ever is PvP? I wanted to reach thru the web and slap the fool.
If they're going with a weak version of Skyrim's gameplay and content and hoping that PvP with their character development system, gameplay, and combat system is going to somehow be a good game, they are drastically mistaken.
TESO, just like Neverwinter (PvP has nothing to do with D&D) shouldn't even have PvP and should be focused on PvE. One reason why so many MMORPGs end up being mediocre and or having no lasting appeal is lack of PvE content to keep people busy past the solo ez-mode content. Once they finish the glorified single player game part of the so-called massively multiplayer game they move on. If devs would FOCUS a little more instead of trying to be everything for everybody, maybe they could retain some customers for more than a few months.
Wasting time making a complex PvP system for a franchise that has always been the pinnacle of PvE seems amazingly stupid. Especially when the combat is so simplistic. I can't even imagine anybody wanting to PvP with character setups and skills that are like those in skyrim. Click mouse or click and hold for power attack. How amazingly not compelling for PvP.
What they should be doing is throwing in as much group-based PvE stuff as they can possibly come up with so all those millions of players who have been doing PvE content for years and years can finally do that wicked content with other people.
Honestly, the more I hear about TESO at this point, the less interested I am in it because the last thing the MMORPG genre needs at this point is yet another clone of a game that tries to be everything for everybody. Too much solo ez-mode, crappy PvP, and not enough group content to keep people around. Same old crap formula that has produced mediocre and non-enduring MMO after MMO.
What the genre does need is a game that says, screw it, we're not doing yet another crappy attempt at PvP, and instead we're going to focus on fewer things, and instead of making a glorified single player game we're going to emphasize the one thing that's unique about MMOs and makes them special - the damn grouping. If the idiots who want to solo in multiplayer games don't play, too bad, if the people who want to PvP and usually don't even care about the rest of the game don't play, too bad. Take a chance on making the type of MMO that people will stick with and play for years, instead of making yet another generic MMO that has crap community and longevity because people play for 3 months, bail, come back once in a while if new content comes out, disappear again, repeat.
TESO is purely made for themepark players and now they hope some TES fans also make the jump to themepark that has little to do with TES games but they still can hope.
Im still far from even concider TESO its completely different game then TES games.
Its nice for themepark for gamers who are interested in mmo with elder scroll name attouched to it and having fun, but ill pass if you don't mind.
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me . . . no more.
There is no point to TESO, also no point to video games, and lastly no point to life in general. So best you can do is find things you enjoy between now and your impending demise and have some fun.
The ELDER SCROLLS single player series is continuing.The people making ESOL are in a seperate company. Production of one is not impinging on the others development. If you don't like ESOL.....wait...as you have in the past till the nest ELDER SCROLLS game comes out.
Elder Scrolls could have been the one of the greatest PVE themeparks, to rival EQ2, but instead they went for PVP because it's cheaper to make and game design philosophy these days starts with anticipated profit rather than whether it is a good concept.
One thing I'm surprised no one has brought up or at least that I've seen. Is the fact that the game is a prequel to the original elder scroll series and that therefore nothing we really do will have any sort of impact in the world, since we can look ahead at all the other elder scroll series and just see how everything has already panned out anyway.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but if ESO was strictly a PvE based game I wouldn't even touch it, and I'm sure a hell of a lot more would do the same. You already have an ES game that's PvE only and it's Skyrim. Why don't you stick to just playing that?
Go ahead and say that PvP isn't needed, then go look at EVE and WoW. Now PvP only MMOs on the other hand....Successful MMO needs both, there is only so many scripted encounters you can do, PvP offers unlimited potential.
It's also not about increasing the size of my EPeen, I could give two fucks about what some uber dork on the internet thinks of me. I PvP because I like the challenge, the challenge I never get fighting scripted NPCs.
One thing I'm surprised no one has brought up or at least that I've seen. Is the fact that the game is a prequel to the original elder scroll series and that therefore nothing we really do will have any sort of impact in the world, since we can look ahead at all the other elder scroll series and just see how everything has already panned out anyway.
But then that could be me just hating prequels.
I'm sure you're very vocal about hating George Lucas then.
Originally posted by Kylia61 I have been preaching the exact same thing for 8 years. Screw MMO PVP, what a joke. Instead of making devs produce compelling content, environment and handcrafted questing they say "Here have some weapons and entertain yourselves by killing each other in environments that took one afternoon to craft." You want pvp? How many FPS games are designed FOR NOTHING ELSE? PVP in RPG is all what gear you got and not skill. You don't think so? Then why do teams have minimum gear stats requirements? Just so long as your gear is a certain level...they don't even ask if you have any skill. BECAUSE...ya don't need it. Just the gear. Ya want to pvp me? Meet me in BF3...or whatever Counter-Strike. All the man-hours and resources wasted on pvp balancing and bug squashing.
I love the hate cake eaters (PvErs) have for PvPers. Just because we like to fight others it means I have to be forced into a specific genre to do so (in your suggestion FPS). That would be like me telling you to stick to platformers such as Mario games to get your so called hand crafted content.
Good PvP systems makes it so it isn't just about gear level. Get that WoW mentality out of your head. Guild Wars 2 for instance, that isn't about gear at all when you're in SPvP since everyone has access to all their skills and all the same gear.
I get it you don't like PvP, you also don't know shit about it. Stop acting like you do. Do you think the hardcore PvPers like the fact they have to level up for 150-200+ hours of "handcrafted" (scripted NPC) content? No, they do it because they are forced to. Most games do not force PvErs to do that. The ones that have done, all you get is QQ and comments like, "don't shoot me, i'm questing!!).
Funny I think devs waste more hours crafting raiding content that a fraction of the community does, or PvE content that gets burned through in a matter of hours. Just so you know, I'm sure there are more PvPers out there then there are raiders. I'll use SWTOR as an example. When update 1.2 was delayed (it was the PvP update), and they took out Rated PvP, SWTOR lost more then 400 000 subs. So that was pretty much 1/4 of their player base. Yep, PvPers are a small fraction of a community right?.....
Elder Scrolls could have been the one of the greatest PVE themeparks, to rival EQ2, but instead they went for PVP because it's cheaper to make and game design philosophy these days starts with anticipated profit rather than whether it is a good concept.
I can agree with you on the game design philosophy being more about profit, since this is a profit driven industry now that makes more dough then Hollywood. On the fact that PvP content is cheaper to produce, I disagree. Cyrodill is 9 PvE zones big, so unless it's a barren wasteland full of nothingness, I find it hard to believe it's cheaper to produce then any of the regular zones.
Originally posted by Piiritus But their only point in making this game is to milk cash with popular IP.
Unfortunately, this has become a trend of late...DDO, AoC, SWTOR, NW, and now TESO will be in that line as well. I just havent decided if this will be a bigger trainwreck than SWTOR or not.
One thing I'm surprised no one has brought up or at least that I've seen. Is the fact that the game is a prequel to the original elder scroll series and that therefore nothing we really do will have any sort of impact in the world, since we can look ahead at all the other elder scroll series and just see how everything has already panned out anyway.
But then that could be me just hating prequels.
I'm sure you're very vocal about hating George Lucas then.
Not at all, since I'm unfortunate enough to share the same name a main character I must like it all.
Funny I think devs waste more hours crafting raiding content that a fraction of the community does, or PvE content that gets burned through in a matter of hours. Just so you know, I'm sure there are more PvPers out there then there are raiders. I'll use SWTOR as an example. When update 1.2 was delayed (it was the PvP update), and they took out Rated PvP, SWTOR lost more then 400 000 subs. So that was pretty much 1/4 of their player base. Yep, PvPers are a small fraction of a community right?.....
I remember one of the Devs actually stating....we didnt anticipate this much interest in PVP.......
Really? I followed that game since before it's forum and website launched, and there was an overwhelming amount of PVP discussion on the forums. All they had to do was look at the people that were the most interested in their game......they didnt.
Elder Scrolls could have been the one of the greatest PVE themeparks, to rival EQ2, but instead they went for PVP because it's cheaper to make and game design philosophy these days starts with anticipated profit rather than whether it is a good concept.
*In most countrys...not all ...profit.....is not a bad thing. In most countrys consumers have a choice about what to buy and what not to buy.
* I have found in RL the adage "one man's trash is another mans treasure" is often true
*personally i have been looking forward to the game. The best faction vs faction game ever made ..IMHO...is DAOC.To have one of its creators produce an updated DAOC(curent game is 11 years old) like game.It fills a market nitch and offers a fabulous opportunity for gamers who have been looking and not finding the next DAOC.And for Zinimax...a fantastic profit opportunity.
Funny I think devs waste more hours crafting raiding content that a fraction of the community does, or PvE content that gets burned through in a matter of hours. Just so you know, I'm sure there are more PvPers out there then there are raiders. I'll use SWTOR as an example. When update 1.2 was delayed (it was the PvP update), and they took out Rated PvP, SWTOR lost more then 400 000 subs. So that was pretty much 1/4 of their player base. Yep, PvPers are a small fraction of a community right?.....
I remember one of the Devs actually stating....we didnt anticipate this much interest in PVP.......
Really? I followed that game since before it's forum and website launched, and there was an overwhelming amount of PVP discussion on the forums. All they had to do was look at the people that were the most interested in their game......they didnt.
AVA is a major part of the game and why many of the games players are developing their characters.But like DAOC...you don't HAVE to fight to do other things like crafting or adventuring.
Originally posted by bubaluba If you suck in pvp do not play this game. You have skyrim to play and stay there safe in your virtual world. MMO only pve is pure boredom . Thanks to heaven nobody in gaming industry want to listen to such ridiculous opinions like you posted here
Or those who want strict pve can not only adventure in their own faction but they have two others at their disposal. Not to mention the adventure zones (which I suspect is one of the reasons for the delay.
So if people don't want pvp and they are interested in this game, they shouldn't listen to you.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
At this point I'm wonder why they're making this game.
Seriously, I don't get why suddenly NOW so many of the few people that looked at the game as a great idea are now upset.
From the very start they showed they had no real interest in making an actual TES MMO but instead was making a quick cash grab. You don't base a TES game on DaoC if you have any actual interest in making a game for TES fans. The whole OMG its also being made for consoles is just a small example of that mindset.
It would have been different if they were making an actual TES game with just multiplayer capabilities because the last two TES games were also multi-platform...even though Skyrim was the only one built AROUND Console play. As is, they are making a cluster ____ of a game that's going to meet almost nobodies standards or wants.
Most console TES players don't play MMOs, nor have much interest in them. Though many of them will be ignorant of what the game is going to limit them too in terms of gameplay, I do see sales being somewhat high just from the name, but retention will be another matter because SRPG players don't want to be forced into having to do anything and the race/faction restriction alone will bar those that like multi-playing because it will force them and their friends to have to play the same thing, which is a turn off for many of that style of player.
Most PC TES players don't like DaoC style limitations or feel it fits the TES style of gameplay for the same reasons as console SRPGers with the addition of lack of open world and funneled PvP content being the basis of the game.
Most PC MMO players never played DaoC and really don't know what they are in for when they hit that wall DaoC had.
The latest information about the game should be expected when the developers base their game in a small box and are disconnected from their target audience...sorry DaoC fans, you shot yourselves in the foot in hopes to grasp at past experiences without really thinking about what they were doing, taking an existing IP with fans far different than you are and trying to please BOTH. You were far better off jumping on the CU bandwagon and trying to get them to make it more like DaoC than not via funding pressure.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think the concept of the game and the choice of Firor to lead the new company was excellent.His early description of his vision for the game was exciting. I also think the direction the game has taken in the last few months has dramatically reduced my interest and hope in what I thought was going to be a great AVA game.
Comments
Very Good point
. Never thought about that. this is why i love constructive conversations..makes ya think 
. And I played SWTOR so i know what you mean.
+1
Exactly what I was going to say. When you're playing Skyrim, you're actually playing a PvP game, you just don't know it. The real question is do you want to be able to just faceroll the game or do you want a challenge? I would even go as far as to say that this is the more "realistic" case. I mean do you really think that you could take down an entire army single-handedly and then run away anytime that you see a bear? Or a giant?
I will be the first to say I'm not a fan of PvP, but Elder Scrolls is a place where PvP belongs. It doesn't need to be forced to fit the lore and it's not gratuitous in any way. This is the way it is and always has been. Only thing is that now you will be fighting against equals (well mostly equals).
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You do know that Todd Howard, the mastermind behind the Elder Scrolls series, was never a fan of MMOs.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/31/bethesdas-todd-howard-not-interested-in-an-elder-scrolls-mmo/
However,
If Zenimax plays their cards right they may just pull this one off...
TESO is purely made for themepark players and now they hope some TES fans also make the jump to themepark that has little to do with TES games but they still can hope.
Im still far from even concider TESO its completely different game then TES games.
Its nice for themepark for gamers who are interested in mmo with elder scroll name attouched to it and having fun, but ill pass if you don't mind.
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me . . . no more.
There is no point to TESO, also no point to video games, and lastly no point to life in general. So best you can do is find things you enjoy between now and your impending demise and have some fun.
It's an IP sell out DAoC copy cash grab.
Elder Scrolls could have been the one of the greatest PVE themeparks, to rival EQ2, but instead they went for PVP because it's cheaper to make and game design philosophy these days starts with anticipated profit rather than whether it is a good concept.
One thing I'm surprised no one has brought up or at least that I've seen. Is the fact that the game is a prequel to the original elder scroll series and that therefore nothing we really do will have any sort of impact in the world, since we can look ahead at all the other elder scroll series and just see how everything has already panned out anyway.
But then that could be me just hating prequels.
if you want a pve game, there are plenty out there.
i'd suggest to play those. thx.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Sorry to burst your bubble, but if ESO was strictly a PvE based game I wouldn't even touch it, and I'm sure a hell of a lot more would do the same. You already have an ES game that's PvE only and it's Skyrim. Why don't you stick to just playing that?
Go ahead and say that PvP isn't needed, then go look at EVE and WoW. Now PvP only MMOs on the other hand....Successful MMO needs both, there is only so many scripted encounters you can do, PvP offers unlimited potential.
It's also not about increasing the size of my EPeen, I could give two fucks about what some uber dork on the internet thinks of me. I PvP because I like the challenge, the challenge I never get fighting scripted NPCs.
I'm sure you're very vocal about hating George Lucas then.
I love the hate cake eaters (PvErs) have for PvPers. Just because we like to fight others it means I have to be forced into a specific genre to do so (in your suggestion FPS). That would be like me telling you to stick to platformers such as Mario games to get your so called hand crafted content.
Good PvP systems makes it so it isn't just about gear level. Get that WoW mentality out of your head. Guild Wars 2 for instance, that isn't about gear at all when you're in SPvP since everyone has access to all their skills and all the same gear.
I get it you don't like PvP, you also don't know shit about it. Stop acting like you do. Do you think the hardcore PvPers like the fact they have to level up for 150-200+ hours of "handcrafted" (scripted NPC) content? No, they do it because they are forced to. Most games do not force PvErs to do that. The ones that have done, all you get is QQ and comments like, "don't shoot me, i'm questing!!).
Funny I think devs waste more hours crafting raiding content that a fraction of the community does, or PvE content that gets burned through in a matter of hours. Just so you know, I'm sure there are more PvPers out there then there are raiders. I'll use SWTOR as an example. When update 1.2 was delayed (it was the PvP update), and they took out Rated PvP, SWTOR lost more then 400 000 subs. So that was pretty much 1/4 of their player base. Yep, PvPers are a small fraction of a community right?.....
I can agree with you on the game design philosophy being more about profit, since this is a profit driven industry now that makes more dough then Hollywood. On the fact that PvP content is cheaper to produce, I disagree. Cyrodill is 9 PvE zones big, so unless it's a barren wasteland full of nothingness, I find it hard to believe it's cheaper to produce then any of the regular zones.
Unfortunately, this has become a trend of late...DDO, AoC, SWTOR, NW, and now TESO will be in that line as well. I just havent decided if this will be a bigger trainwreck than SWTOR or not.
Not at all, since I'm unfortunate enough to share the same name a main character I must like it all.
I remember one of the Devs actually stating....we didnt anticipate this much interest in PVP.......
Really? I followed that game since before it's forum and website launched, and there was an overwhelming amount of PVP discussion on the forums. All they had to do was look at the people that were the most interested in their game......they didnt.
*In most countrys...not all ...profit.....is not a bad thing. In most countrys consumers have a choice about what to buy and what not to buy.
* I have found in RL the adage "one man's trash is another mans treasure" is often true
*personally i have been looking forward to the game. The best faction vs faction game ever made ..IMHO...is DAOC.To have one of its creators produce an updated DAOC(curent game is 11 years old) like game.It fills a market nitch and offers a fabulous opportunity for gamers who have been looking and not finding the next DAOC.And for Zinimax...a fantastic profit opportunity.
AVA is a major part of the game and why many of the games players are developing their characters.But like DAOC...you don't HAVE to fight to do other things like crafting or adventuring.
Or those who want strict pve can not only adventure in their own faction but they have two others at their disposal. Not to mention the adventure zones (which I suspect is one of the reasons for the delay.
So if people don't want pvp and they are interested in this game, they shouldn't listen to you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Theres Zero full featured modern PvE games which doesn't feature some sort of PvP. Nice try but not even close.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Seriously, I don't get why suddenly NOW so many of the few people that looked at the game as a great idea are now upset.
From the very start they showed they had no real interest in making an actual TES MMO but instead was making a quick cash grab. You don't base a TES game on DaoC if you have any actual interest in making a game for TES fans. The whole OMG its also being made for consoles is just a small example of that mindset.
It would have been different if they were making an actual TES game with just multiplayer capabilities because the last two TES games were also multi-platform...even though Skyrim was the only one built AROUND Console play. As is, they are making a cluster ____ of a game that's going to meet almost nobodies standards or wants.
Most console TES players don't play MMOs, nor have much interest in them. Though many of them will be ignorant of what the game is going to limit them too in terms of gameplay, I do see sales being somewhat high just from the name, but retention will be another matter because SRPG players don't want to be forced into having to do anything and the race/faction restriction alone will bar those that like multi-playing because it will force them and their friends to have to play the same thing, which is a turn off for many of that style of player.
Most PC TES players don't like DaoC style limitations or feel it fits the TES style of gameplay for the same reasons as console SRPGers with the addition of lack of open world and funneled PvP content being the basis of the game.
Most PC MMO players never played DaoC and really don't know what they are in for when they hit that wall DaoC had.
The latest information about the game should be expected when the developers base their game in a small box and are disconnected from their target audience...sorry DaoC fans, you shot yourselves in the foot in hopes to grasp at past experiences without really thinking about what they were doing, taking an existing IP with fans far different than you are and trying to please BOTH. You were far better off jumping on the CU bandwagon and trying to get them to make it more like DaoC than not via funding pressure.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson