Originally posted by Nurf3duk Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
..or you could just keep your mitts off EQ:N and play WOW, RIft, Tera, GW2, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or any other themepark with consensual PVP which came out in the last 10 years.
sandbox is not the genre you are looking for, move along
.. or you could just keep your mits off EQ:N and play EVE, Mortal Online, DF:UW, or any other openworld PvP.
sandbox does not equate to PvP and EQ has ALWAYS been a high emphasis on PvE. PvP will be incorperated just like how it is in WoW or Rift or SWTOR.... that it will be fully consensual with PvP server options. Like it or not, that will what it'll be as any other form will result in massive drop in potential customers and something they will not do.
Oh wow thanks for giving another example how self entitled and greedy PvE-exclusive players really are.
I listed 7 out of the heap of big budget MMOs catering to YOUR playstyle, and the PvAll folks get ONE sandbox in space by CCP and two low-budget buggy indie titles.
/clap clap
yes, let the greed flow through your body. You folks CLEARLY need another triple A title catering to YOUR playstyle.
And here I though you were the one of the more reasonable posters floating around the forums... if you think getting 40 bored and lazy gits to do a fixed encounter is hard try mobilizing a fleet of 200+ people in EVE going in not knowing what they're facing.
The relaxation argument is about as dated as UO is, maybe even more so, again I direct you to EVE-Online for a pretty clear cut example of a game where PvP can happen anywhere on the map (excluding nooby systems and I am pretty sure that's only for character below a certain "age"), does that mean the game isn't relaxing? Anyone who says yes has been either A) been huffing paint fumes for far too long or cannot fathom that to be safe you only need to be smart.
You don't seem to be able to see the difference between raiding and pvp so there's no point in explaining any further. It's something you either enjoy doing or you don't. You obviously don't. Calling them all lazy or stupid is no better than me calling anyone that thinks mmo pvp is challenging the same things.
As someone that's done a lot of top guild raiding I've seen my share of people who can't do the content no matter how hard they try. There are people who really want to be the top guild but some how never manage to do it....obviously there's more to it that just watching a youtube clip and going and collecting your loot.
And your eve refreeze still doesn't work. If a game tells me I can pve as long as I stay inside a little play pen but if I want to go out into the cool part of the world it's pvp ...I'd just pass on the game.
I pvp all the time but I do it in rts, fps. mobas ect ect. When I log into one of them I'm there to kill other people. When I play an mmo I don't care about playing the who has better loot or who spent more time grinding a battle ground. It just seems silly to me. I don't sit here saying anyone that does is an idiot though. People like to do it. If it's too much a part of a game I just don't play the game.
That doesn't mean a game has to be all or nothing. It just means devs in the past have failed at making it work for both. Innovation comes from making something work not saying it can't be done.
I've done raiding believe it or not, back in vanilla WoW no less. The difference between PVE and PVP is one is done by repetition and muscle memory while the other requires creativity, knowledge and a quick mind, guess which is which. You could without too much fail do a raid by just following instructions, in EVE not all PVP endgame content is "listen to your superior and stay out of the fucking fire", in fact aside from blob warfare or actual large fleet engagements (2000+) you're really stretching it to find any one place where you as a player do not decide what to do and how to do it ( Hell even PVE in high-sec, the one you think is so "a little play pen" is still leagues more exciting than a WoW raid and this isn't talking as a fanboi though I love EVE, this is simple fact, in WoW you have no competition, in EVE you do, especially in exploration sites in high-sec where if you scan something good down but don't have the right ship your heart is pounding until you run back to your base station to get a ship then jump into the site and rush through it before anyone shows up to steal the juicy stuff).
And while you don't say people who do battlegrounds or has the better loot is an idiot I do, because both those a skinner boxes, it's basic conditioning, you want that better monster/player pwning sword so you continually do the same thing over and over and over and over again expecting a different result.
Also saying that RTS, FPS and MOBAs are PVP in the same way EVE or (tentatively) Archeage is, is like me saying WoW is no different than Hello Kitty Online.
Also the day you can state innovation and PVE in the same sentence without PVP anywhere near it is the day you have actual Artificial Intelligence controlling spawned creatures at which point you truly face the dillema "am I committing genocide against actual cyber organisms?".
Innovation will only come by going back to the virtual world games where MMOs started off and in a virtual world someone can choose to shove a sword into your back for your fancy cape.
^ for people like him I'd truly hope that it's single server, pvp enabled, FFA with full loss/partial drop mechanics, just cause we can do with a little less of the kind of player that likes being spoon fed guides over youtube so he/she can repeat the same boss 20 bloody times with no variation in AI behaviour for that one rare drop. This isn't PVE gameplay, this is lazy gameplay taken to an extreme and people like Oceans should know better than to fall into the PVE trap of casuals (no challenge, no fun, just a skinner box for you to put money into for the chance of some whiff of gratification, PVP scares most people because most people are used to skinner boxes, they hate they idea of doing something and not only not getting anything in return but also potentially losing something).
People don't like to pvp while playing a pve mmo because they're playing to relax and not be on the edge of their seat wondering who's going to kill them next. They're there to focus on the quest or they're only half paying attention because they're chatting with friends. It has nothing to do with being scared and everything to do with not being a competition all the time. That's the whole reason battle grounds because so popular. People who like to relax and play pve still liked to pvp but wanted it when they wanted to do it.
Raiding is about a coordinated effort between a large group of people. Not trying to simulate a pvp experience with npc boss mobs. People who say what you did about raiding tend to be the types that can't work with a group of people so they don't raid. If you ever actually did any real raiding not just I joined a pug once you'd know how absurd your comment was. The boss isn't the challenge, getting 25, 40 people to all do what they need to do when they need to do it is. It's why some people can raid and others can't.
And here I though you were the one of the more reasonable posters floating around the forums... if you think getting 40 bored and lazy gits to do a fixed encounter is hard try mobilizing a fleet of 200+ people in EVE going in not knowing what they're facing.
The relaxation argument is about as dated as UO is, maybe even more so, again I direct you to EVE-Online for a pretty clear cut example of a game where PvP can happen anywhere on the map (excluding nooby systems and I am pretty sure that's only for character below a certain "age"), does that mean the game isn't relaxing? Anyone who says yes has been either A) been huffing paint fumes for far too long or cannot fathom that to be safe you only need to be smart.
If EQN is to be a revolutionary game worth its name PVP cannot be on another server or completely absent. If it has the same joke mechanics in lieu of PVP that WoW has then this game will flop, no it will not be sustained by the amusing notion of PVE content because PVE content for all intents and purposes is non-emergent, static content which once burned through will signal the game's downfall no matter how much the developers try to keep up with the burn, moan and binge all you want those same things happened to how many MMOs thus far?
Everyone Plays games their own way!
Sorry to burst Your bubble. EverQuest has always been about the PVE experience. Their entire fanbase is based on that.
I am getting tired of People forcing PVP Down Our throats in every friggin MMO in Development! Always the same discussion.
If you want Open FFA PVP. There are already games out there. Most popular EVE Online. Less popular Darkfall.
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
I dont mind arenas or pvp areas to fight over but not open world.
Everquest was always about PVE and exploration. i love pvp but there are plenty of games i can go to for PVP. EQN should be primarily PVE. bring back contested dungeons and REAL rare loot. bring back danger and fear. Dont make the mistake of thinking the only way to do this is open world and full loot pvp. EQ did this 13 years ago without pvp and can do it again.
Bring back tradeskills that take effort and time to perfect. bring back individuality.
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
I dont mind arenas or pvp areas to fight over but not open world.
Everquest was always about PVE and exploration. i love pvp but there are plenty of games i can go to for PVP. EQN should be primarily PVE. bring back contested dungeons and REAL rare loot. bring back danger and fear. Dont make the mistake of thinking the only way to do this is open world and full loot pvp. EQ did this 13 years ago without pvp and can do it again.
Bring back tradeskills that take effort and time to perfect. bring back individuality.
agreed. PvP has its place, but EQ1 wasn't about pvp
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
Are you freakin´ kidding me? Who is waiting for ANOTHER PVE focused game???
99% of MMOs on the market already are "THE PVE GAME YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR".
How about finally releasing a non-consensual triple-A PvAll sandbox MMO, which is NOT called EvE ? (and don´t you dare bringing up a low budget indie title like Darkfall)
How about you:
Check out WoW?
Check out Rift?
Check out Tera?
Check out Final Fantasy?
Check out SWTOR?
Check out Wildstar?
Check out Age of Conan?
Check out Secret World?
Check out any asian made theme park of the last 10 years?
Isnt WOW still going strong with millions of players? kinda makes your pve will fail point a little empty doesnt it.
Isnt EQ still going after nearly 14 years? admittedly nowhere near as popular as five years ago but still going.
And isnt Everquest Next getting satuaration level interest? and lets face it, the world knows Everquest was a pve game, yet still theres all this interest?
I think you will be suprised with the level of challenge a good pve game can offer friend. Everquest did this by allowing a level one character to go and shoot an arrow at a dragon if they wanted to, yes they would last less than a second but the fact remaines you could try it. What this meant was that the players with a little more iniative and adventurous spirit could go places they really should go and fight mobs they really had no right in fighting.
I leveled my Ranger back in old Everquest to max level with only ever grouping with my two online friends, the rest was solo. i then joined a guild and discovered raiding and earnt a reputation of being a reliable crowd control and puller. This was not by following instructions but by learning to play my character to its max.
On the same note i played Darkfall and ended up the same carbon copy of every other player and fighting the same style, because it was just so easy to do. Thats why i got jaded with open world PVP, it just didnt offer enough of a challenge and was too carebear for me. CAREBEAR you hear me say...in an open PVP world...am i crazy? maybe, but to me the fact that 99% of pvp playesr always looked for the easy kill...ie newbies, while the pve players were looking for the hardest challenge....well make your own assumptions.
But i really feel that you have never had the pleasure of a well designed pve game to compare it to your love of PVP, the sdame as i have never came across that well designed pvp game that can offer me the challenge that EQ did. Maybe if i found that pvp game i would understand your point more
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
Are you freakin´ kidding me? Who is waiting for ANOTHER PVE focused game???
99% of MMOs on the market already are "THE PVE GAME YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR".
How about finally releasing a non-consensual triple-A PvAll sandbox MMO, which is NOT called EvE ? (and don´t you dare bringing up a low budget indie title like Darkfall)
How about you:
Check out WoW?
Check out Rift?
Check out Tera?
Check out Final Fantasy?
Check out SWTOR?
Check out Wildstar?
Check out Age of Conan?
Check out Secret World?
Check out any asian made theme park of the last 10 years?
havent c hecked out Tera or Wildstar on your list.
The rest i have played and many more.
Simple answer to your question f4iend is "me"
anymore questions or are you happy with my answer?
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
Are you freakin´ kidding me? Who is waiting for ANOTHER PVE focused game???
99% of MMOs on the market already are "THE PVE GAME YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR".
How about finally releasing a non-consensual triple-A PvAll sandbox MMO, which is NOT called EvE ? (and don´t you dare bringing up a low budget indie title like Darkfall)
How about you:
Check out WoW?
Check out Rift?
Check out Tera?
Check out Final Fantasy?
Check out SWTOR?
Check out Wildstar?
Check out Age of Conan?
Check out Secret World?
Check out any asian made theme park of the last 10 years?
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
Hard to make a list when they all been shutdown or have no player base worth mentioning.
AS I said, you are in a minority not the majority. The majority is what keeps games alive not the minority.
Define Triple A in your own words without googling it... you have 2 minutes to respond.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Isnt WOW still going strong with millions of players? kinda makes your pve will fail point a little empty doesnt it.
+1
Good point! Let´s copy WOW concept once more. Why did no other MMO dev in the last 10 years come up with this !
derp herpaderp derp
Talk about misreading a post mate haha!
Where did you come up with that from my post? im an EQ fan kiddo, played wow and didnt think much of it, played 90% of the copys after that and dint think much of those either.
Hence the "pve game that we have all been waiting for" get it? if it was already one of those that have been released we wouldnt be waiting for it would we now? get it now?
Never mind mate i dont have time to explain lol.
I am hoping EQN will be the PVE game i have been waiting for. One that provides challenge, emotional gameplay and the choice to do what i want to. Again Everquests foundations were built on PVE, without foundations your empire will fall!
Why isn't there any triple A PvP games out there? Because the big developers do market research, that's why. There isn't a market to support it. Otherwise, Darkfall would get higher numbers. EVE would get higher numbers. PvP servers on games like WoW would dominate the population counts. Any developer worth their salt keeps track of these things.
Face it, there is no major market for FFA PVP. You all may think there is by your concentrated presence here, but you're just a very vocal minority.
Incidentally, Darkfall wouldn't be relegated to "low budget indie" status if there was a market to support it. As it stands, I'm sure Aventurine is just barely getting by because no one wants to play.
Edited to add-- Question for the PVP proponents. If SOE provided multiple servers with different rulesets, including one with FFA full loot PVP, would that make you happy?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
Hard to make a list when they all been shutdown or have no player base worth mentioning.
AS I said, you are in a minority not the majority. The majority is what keeps games alive not the minority.
Define Triple A in your own words without googling it... you have 2 minutes to respond.
OK, make a list of all that have been shutdown.
Triple A = not indie developer with a shoestring budget
Why isn't there any triple A PvP games out there? Because the big developers do market research, that's why. There isn't a market to support it. Otherwise, Darkfall would get higher numbers. EVE would get higher numbers. PvP servers on games like WoW would dominate the population counts. Any developer worth their salt keeps track of these things.
Face it, there is no major market for FFA PVP. You all may think there is by your concentrated presence here, but you're just a very vocal minority.
Incidentally, Darkfall wouldn't be relegated to "low budget indie" status if there was a market to support it. As it stands, I'm sure Aventurine is just barely getting by because no one wants to play.
Edited to add-- Question for the PVP proponents. If SOE provided multiple servers with different rulesets, including one with FFA full loot PVP, would that make you happy?
Ridiculous post.
Well then, list the sub MMOs with more than 500.000 K subscribers, not F2P.
I´ll start: EVE.
Go continue the list. Now,
List the PvE-only online games with more than 10 million users like a PvP-only game like WORLD OF TANKS.
Go. Examples please.
You know what, devlopers "market reseach" sucks monkey balls, reminds me of the EA "analyst" who predicted 50 million players for SWTOR when it goes F2P. *ROFL*
Isnt WOW still going strong with millions of players? kinda makes your pve will fail point a little empty doesnt it.
+1
Good point! Let´s copy WOW concept once more. Why did no other MMO dev in the last 10 years come up with this !
derp herpaderp derp
Talk about misreading a post mate haha!
Where did you come up with that from my post? im an EQ fan kiddo, played wow and didnt think much of it, played 90% of the copys after that and dint think much of those either.
Hence the "pve game that we have all been waiting for" get it? if it was already one of those that have been released we wouldnt be waiting for it would we now? get it now?
Never mind mate i dont have time to explain lol.
I am hoping EQN will be the PVE game i have been waiting for. One that provides challenge, emotional gameplay and the choice to do what i want to. Again Everquests foundations were built on PVE, without foundations your empire will fall!
Talk about having horse goggles on... WoW won during its era because it was the first of its kind ( a themepark MMO where casual could do something without getting bum raped by monsters and/or players) and unfortunately for humanity as a whole it has not refused to spawn 5000 clones of itself all trying to get the biggest numbers because those are metrics for success (lol).
In today's world they have to stand out because PVE only is done to bloody death, PVE and PVP fusion like Archeage has isn't, guess who's gonna have to learn to think before going "yeah herpa derp no one would dare do anything to me in this paradise of bromance and honey'd tea.".
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
You are in the minority. Deal With it.
I have played on many PVP servers in MMO's and all of these servers died out within a year, due to griefers.
EverQuest 2 had PVP servers. How many are left? And what is the population on that last server?
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
You are in the minority. Deal With it.
I have played on many PVP servers in MMO's and all of these servers died out within a year, due to griefers.
EverQuest 2 had PVP servers. How many are left? And what is the population on that last server?
I rest my case.
You state something without backing anything up, you don´t create the list I asked for, because you can´t - there is none to make.
I can do the same:
I´ve played on many PvE servers in MMOs and all of these servers died out withing a year due to complete boredom.
Why isn't there any triple A PvP games out there? Because the big developers do market research, that's why. There isn't a market to support it. Otherwise, Darkfall would get higher numbers. EVE would get higher numbers. PvP servers on games like WoW would dominate the population counts. Any developer worth their salt keeps track of these things.
Face it, there is no major market for FFA PVP. You all may think there is by your concentrated presence here, but you're just a very vocal minority.
Incidentally, Darkfall wouldn't be relegated to "low budget indie" status if there was a market to support it. As it stands, I'm sure Aventurine is just barely getting by because no one wants to play.
Edited to add-- Question for the PVP proponents. If SOE provided multiple servers with different rulesets, including one with FFA full loot PVP, would that make you happy?
Ridiculous post.
Well then, list the sub MMOs with more than 500.000 K subscribers, not F2P.
I´ll start: EVE.
Go continue the list. Now,
List the PvE-only online games with more than 10 million users like a PvP-only game like WORLD OF TANKS.
Go. Examples please.
You know what, devlopers "market reseach" sucks monkey balls, reminds me of the EA "analyst" who predicted 50 million players for SWTOR when it goes F2P. *ROFL*
Why isn't there any triple A PvP games out there? Because the big developers do market research, that's why. There isn't a market to support it. Otherwise, Darkfall would get higher numbers. EVE would get higher numbers. PvP servers on games like WoW would dominate the population counts. Any developer worth their salt keeps track of these things.
Face it, there is no major market for FFA PVP. You all may think there is by your concentrated presence here, but you're just a very vocal minority.
Incidentally, Darkfall wouldn't be relegated to "low budget indie" status if there was a market to support it. As it stands, I'm sure Aventurine is just barely getting by because no one wants to play.
Edited to add-- Question for the PVP proponents. If SOE provided multiple servers with different rulesets, including one with FFA full loot PVP, would that make you happy?
Ridiculous post.
Well then, list the sub MMOs with more than 500.000 K subscribers, not F2P.
I´ll start: EVE.
Go continue the list. Now,
List the PvE-only online games with more than 10 million users like a PvP-only game like WORLD OF TANKS.
Go. Examples please.
You know what, devlopers "market reseach" sucks monkey balls, reminds me of the EA "analyst" who predicted 50 million players for SWTOR when it goes F2P. *ROFL*
And what about the question I added? If they have multiple servers, including a full loot, open world PVP server, would that satisfy you?
nope, I´m fed up of MMO devs splitting up their player base into hardmode/easymode playmodes. It has been done to death. Time to unify population again
Comments
Oh wow thanks for giving another example how self entitled and greedy PvE-exclusive players really are.
I listed 7 out of the heap of big budget MMOs catering to YOUR playstyle, and the PvAll folks get ONE sandbox in space by CCP and two low-budget buggy indie titles.
/clap clap
yes, let the greed flow through your body. You folks CLEARLY need another triple A title catering to YOUR playstyle.
I wonder if that includes our items. if so the game may have a shot at an actual living economy!
I've done raiding believe it or not, back in vanilla WoW no less. The difference between PVE and PVP is one is done by repetition and muscle memory while the other requires creativity, knowledge and a quick mind, guess which is which. You could without too much fail do a raid by just following instructions, in EVE not all PVP endgame content is "listen to your superior and stay out of the fucking fire", in fact aside from blob warfare or actual large fleet engagements (2000+) you're really stretching it to find any one place where you as a player do not decide what to do and how to do it ( Hell even PVE in high-sec, the one you think is so "a little play pen" is still leagues more exciting than a WoW raid and this isn't talking as a fanboi though I love EVE, this is simple fact, in WoW you have no competition, in EVE you do, especially in exploration sites in high-sec where if you scan something good down but don't have the right ship your heart is pounding until you run back to your base station to get a ship then jump into the site and rush through it before anyone shows up to steal the juicy stuff).
And while you don't say people who do battlegrounds or has the better loot is an idiot I do, because both those a skinner boxes, it's basic conditioning, you want that better monster/player pwning sword so you continually do the same thing over and over and over and over again expecting a different result.
Also saying that RTS, FPS and MOBAs are PVP in the same way EVE or (tentatively) Archeage is, is like me saying WoW is no different than Hello Kitty Online.
Also the day you can state innovation and PVE in the same sentence without PVP anywhere near it is the day you have actual Artificial Intelligence controlling spawned creatures at which point you truly face the dillema "am I committing genocide against actual cyber organisms?".
Innovation will only come by going back to the virtual world games where MMOs started off and in a virtual world someone can choose to shove a sword into your back for your fancy cape.
EC/Gfay economy was perfect
but you would never know
No, it was simply inefficient so it would take much longer for the problems to show.
Everyone Plays games their own way!
Sorry to burst Your bubble. EverQuest has always been about the PVE experience. Their entire fanbase is based on that.
I am getting tired of People forcing PVP Down Our throats in every friggin MMO in Development! Always the same discussion.
If you want Open FFA PVP. There are already games out there. Most popular EVE Online. Less popular Darkfall.
Go play those.
I would be very dissapointed if EQN was open world PVP. I am hoping EQN stays to its principals and gives us the PVE game we have all been waiting for.
I dont mind arenas or pvp areas to fight over but not open world.
Everquest was always about PVE and exploration. i love pvp but there are plenty of games i can go to for PVP. EQN should be primarily PVE. bring back contested dungeons and REAL rare loot. bring back danger and fear. Dont make the mistake of thinking the only way to do this is open world and full loot pvp. EQ did this 13 years ago without pvp and can do it again.
Bring back tradeskills that take effort and time to perfect. bring back individuality.
agreed. PvP has its place, but EQ1 wasn't about pvp
Are you freakin´ kidding me? Who is waiting for ANOTHER PVE focused game???
99% of MMOs on the market already are "THE PVE GAME YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR".
How about finally releasing a non-consensual triple-A PvAll sandbox MMO, which is NOT called EvE ? (and don´t you dare bringing up a low budget indie title like Darkfall)
How about you:
Check out WoW?
Check out Rift?
Check out Tera?
Check out Final Fantasy?
Check out SWTOR?
Check out Wildstar?
Check out Age of Conan?
Check out Secret World?
Check out any asian made theme park of the last 10 years?
No, you go play those I listed directly above.
Dihoru!
Isnt WOW still going strong with millions of players? kinda makes your pve will fail point a little empty doesnt it.
Isnt EQ still going after nearly 14 years? admittedly nowhere near as popular as five years ago but still going.
And isnt Everquest Next getting satuaration level interest? and lets face it, the world knows Everquest was a pve game, yet still theres all this interest?
I think you will be suprised with the level of challenge a good pve game can offer friend. Everquest did this by allowing a level one character to go and shoot an arrow at a dragon if they wanted to, yes they would last less than a second but the fact remaines you could try it. What this meant was that the players with a little more iniative and adventurous spirit could go places they really should go and fight mobs they really had no right in fighting.
I leveled my Ranger back in old Everquest to max level with only ever grouping with my two online friends, the rest was solo. i then joined a guild and discovered raiding and earnt a reputation of being a reliable crowd control and puller. This was not by following instructions but by learning to play my character to its max.
On the same note i played Darkfall and ended up the same carbon copy of every other player and fighting the same style, because it was just so easy to do. Thats why i got jaded with open world PVP, it just didnt offer enough of a challenge and was too carebear for me. CAREBEAR you hear me say...in an open PVP world...am i crazy? maybe, but to me the fact that 99% of pvp playesr always looked for the easy kill...ie newbies, while the pve players were looking for the hardest challenge....well make your own assumptions.
But i really feel that you have never had the pleasure of a well designed pve game to compare it to your love of PVP, the sdame as i have never came across that well designed pvp game that can offer me the challenge that EQ did. Maybe if i found that pvp game i would understand your point more
havent c hecked out Tera or Wildstar on your list.
The rest i have played and many more.
Simple answer to your question f4iend is "me"
anymore questions or are you happy with my answer?
Open world PvP sucks, it was cool back in the day like UO era, then the fad wore off. There is no point to it. No one wants to run around and have to look over there shoulder or to chase people down for a coin or token or some of another players hard earned gear. Griefers may like that sort of gameplay but the majority do not. I would rather see brackets with specific areas designated to PvP it is a much better formula and is proven to work. Look how many games there is that do it and survived, look how many have the FFA loot and open world PvP and look at where those games are in relation... in the gutters.
+1
Good point! Let´s copy WOW concept once more. Why did no other MMO dev in the last 10 years come up with this !
derp herpaderp derp
1. I want
2. I asked before:
regarding "look how many FFA open world PvP MMOs..."
please list here ALL triple A, FFA sandbox MMOs which "are in the gutter", I wonder if I might have overlooked five or six of them?
maybe we can afterwards list all the "everbody's darling consensual" MMOs which went F2P or shut down
Patientely awaiting your list of triple A FFA/PvAll sandbox MMOs in the gutter
Hard to make a list when they all been shutdown or have no player base worth mentioning.
AS I said, you are in a minority not the majority. The majority is what keeps games alive not the minority.
Define Triple A in your own words without googling it... you have 2 minutes to respond.
Talk about misreading a post mate haha!
Where did you come up with that from my post? im an EQ fan kiddo, played wow and didnt think much of it, played 90% of the copys after that and dint think much of those either.
Hence the "pve game that we have all been waiting for" get it? if it was already one of those that have been released we wouldnt be waiting for it would we now? get it now?
Never mind mate i dont have time to explain lol.
I am hoping EQN will be the PVE game i have been waiting for. One that provides challenge, emotional gameplay and the choice to do what i want to. Again Everquests foundations were built on PVE, without foundations your empire will fall!
Why isn't there any triple A PvP games out there? Because the big developers do market research, that's why. There isn't a market to support it. Otherwise, Darkfall would get higher numbers. EVE would get higher numbers. PvP servers on games like WoW would dominate the population counts. Any developer worth their salt keeps track of these things.
Face it, there is no major market for FFA PVP. You all may think there is by your concentrated presence here, but you're just a very vocal minority.
Incidentally, Darkfall wouldn't be relegated to "low budget indie" status if there was a market to support it. As it stands, I'm sure Aventurine is just barely getting by because no one wants to play.
Edited to add-- Question for the PVP proponents. If SOE provided multiple servers with different rulesets, including one with FFA full loot PVP, would that make you happy?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
OK, make a list of all that have been shutdown.
Triple A = not indie developer with a shoestring budget
Ridiculous post.
Well then, list the sub MMOs with more than 500.000 K subscribers, not F2P.
I´ll start: EVE.
Go continue the list. Now,
List the PvE-only online games with more than 10 million users like a PvP-only game like WORLD OF TANKS.
Go. Examples please.
You know what, devlopers "market reseach" sucks monkey balls, reminds me of the EA "analyst" who predicted 50 million players for SWTOR when it goes F2P. *ROFL*
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-01-star-wars-the-old-republic-could-attract-upwards-of-50-million-monthly-players-says-wedbush
Talk about having horse goggles on... WoW won during its era because it was the first of its kind ( a themepark MMO where casual could do something without getting bum raped by monsters and/or players) and unfortunately for humanity as a whole it has not refused to spawn 5000 clones of itself all trying to get the biggest numbers because those are metrics for success (lol).
In today's world they have to stand out because PVE only is done to bloody death, PVE and PVP fusion like Archeage has isn't, guess who's gonna have to learn to think before going "yeah herpa derp no one would dare do anything to me in this paradise of bromance and honey'd tea.".
You are in the minority. Deal With it.
I have played on many PVP servers in MMO's and all of these servers died out within a year, due to griefers.
EverQuest 2 had PVP servers. How many are left? And what is the population on that last server?
I rest my case.
You state something without backing anything up, you don´t create the list I asked for, because you can´t - there is none to make.
I can do the same:
I´ve played on many PvE servers in MMOs and all of these servers died out withing a year due to complete boredom.
You are in the minority, Deal with it!
I rest my case.
And what about the question I added? If they have multiple servers, including a full loot, open world PVP server, would that satisfy you?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
nope, I´m fed up of MMO devs splitting up their player base into hardmode/easymode playmodes. It has been done to death. Time to unify population again