Weapon swap = 5x2 + heal + 3 utility + ultimate + class abilities on f1-4 keys depending on class = 16-19 active skills per class, more on elementalist.
More pure ignorance.
Ah I see, you can't prove your point so you resort to personal attacks...
:-(
Is this a prime example of GW2 community? FFXIV community waits in line to complete quests, answers questions and patiently helps out new players.
GW2 people make personal attacks on others.
Gotcha.
(Oh and I know how GW2 works, I owned it, and had them refund me after a few days of playing, game was not as advertised)
Edit: You essentially admitted that GW2 and FFXIV have the same amount of abilities. As the combat IS similar (I've played both at high level) So I think its time to eat some crow buddy.
He didn't make an attack on you, he said you were ignorant. Which you obviously were. Claiming that GW2 has 5 active skills is an ignorant statement.
And the combat is not similar at all. I'm surprised you owned both games. They probably do have a similar amount of skills available on the skill bar though. I mean, you might as well say WoW and TERA have similar combat.
There are 5 active buttons on your skill bar, that is a fact.
I socketed all passive abilities. I played a warrior, I used only the great sword.
5 is all I got, that's not ignorant, and you are rude.
You socketed all passive abilities, eh? Just keep digging man. You don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: You essentially admitted that GW2 and FFXIV have the same amount of abilities. As the combat IS similar (I've played both at high level) So I think its time to eat some crow buddy.
The number of abilites on a bar is irrlelevant, what matters is what they do. In ffxiv pretty much every ability is the exact same thing. The types of CC mechanics are incredibly basic.
You also returned GW2 after 2 days apparaently, which means no you did not play it at a high level.
FFXIV has the most basic combat system imagnable.
No offense, but you underestimate how little life I have.
FFXIV has a lot of abilities that do a variety of things, there is a lot of data mined info that I am simply unable to post here (as it would violate NDA and this site's rules)
So I suggest that if you want to enlighten yourself, google, or play the game some.
Graphic is quite good I guess. And it probably holds some value for fans of Final Fantasy.
Other than that , i dont see why anyone would be interested in it.
Why are you here then?
Because I read few posts about how great the game is. And I got the beta key.
Waste of bandwith ....
I'm glad you shared with us all your reasoning, and suggestions on how to improve the game, very insightful!
I am further intrigued by your long winded and very thought out 2nd paragraph. It tells the reader volumes about the game play and the time you spent playing the game.
What would be the point if he doesn't like the core game? Lets be honest, some things are just not going to change. If he finds the game boring at its core, adding some fluff on top isn't going to fix it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games as you. Stop trying so hard to make everyone like the same stuff you do. If they were spreading lies about the game I could understand the fanboyism, but they are just sharing opinions that they don't find the game enjoyable. No need to get bent out of shape about it.
iam glad SE does its own thing otherwise it would have been mmo #9081212319 with all the same shit we have seen past 10 years. it wont be a mmo for evryone, its a pure Final Fantasy mmo, dont like it ? tuff luck /goodbye
What is better is that SE doesnt need to listen to all those forum baby's to maintain high sub numbers. They can do it the way they want it without having the need worry about hitting 2 millions subs.
This is what makes me very happy, finaly an mmo that follows a strong developer with a vision instead of finance department screaming to change evrything for the $$$
10/10 SE job well done
This type of attitude is exactly what led to version 1.0 and one of the worst financial years in SEs recent history.
The combat in this game is pressing 2, possibly 3 buttons for the first 15 levels which is around 4-5 hours of gameplay. A lot of people probably wont spend much more time than that in a 2 day beta, so its fairly obvious why there are skeptical people here.
The combat has absolutely 0 innovation for the genre. I was doing the exact same rotations in DAOC 12+ years ago.
LoL I am sorry, but that is what MMO's ARE bro ... you press buttons to attack.... personally I much prefer it than certain action RPG's "action combat". Action combat isn't really MMO... its hack'n'slash... Last one I played was not only easy sauce, but boring through the long haul.
You socketed all passive abilities, eh? Just keep digging man. You don't know what you're talking about.
I did, I'm sorry was I streaming and you watched me "not" do what I am claiming?
I don't like hitting a lot of buttons in a game that is self described as having limited hot bar for a reason. Don't have to justify myself bucko, sorry you don't 'believe me' but its not skin off my back.
It's funny to me how many people on these boards want something "more" in a game than combat, yet complain when combat isn't new and different, yet complain when combat is new and different (GW2, AoC, TERA, NW, etc.)
I'm reserving my judgement of FFXIV:ARR combat until I gain a few more levels and start playing with the cross-class abilities and such.
AoC and GW2 are among my favorite MMOs because they have better combat than what was offered 10+ years ago.
90% of the combat is fighting 1 mob at a time pressing 2-3 buttons with a 3.5s GCD. Its not tactical, its 2 buttons.
What makes it semi-bearable is how easy it is. You just blast through mob after mob and can pretty much fight constantly with 0 downtime. Braindead, but bearable for those who like MMOs in general.
Lol, says GW2 is favourite, describes GW2 combat when criticising FFXIV... go figure.
Gw2 has no GCD, it has a plethora of movement and evade-based abilities, kockbacks as well as environment changing skills like walls.
Clearly you never played pvp at a high level, and have no clue about the mechanics behind GW2s combat engine that are worlds beyond what exists in FFXIV.
Clearly you missed the part where I was describing LOW LEVEL. Yes combat does get more complex at higher levels in GW2... guess what, you haven't seen the higher levels in FFXIV to compare to yet!
What would be the point if he doesn't like the core game? Lets be honest, some things are just not going to change. If he finds the game boring at its core, adding some fluff on top isn't going to fix it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games as you. Stop trying so hard to make everyone like the same stuff you do. If they were spreading lies about the game I could understand the fanboyism, but they are just sharing opinions that they don't find the game enjoyable. No need to get bent out of shape about it.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
Edit: I notice that you are unable to grasp my tone from my posts, I am in no way trying to come off as rude toward you, however you are directly confronting me and going way off topic. The topic of this thread is FFXIV, I was asking him to explain his feelings behind FFXIV. Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
You socketed all passive abilities, eh? Just keep digging man. You don't know what you're talking about.
I did, I'm sorry was I streaming and you watched me "not" do what I am claiming?
I don't like hitting a lot of buttons in a game that is self described as having limited hot bar for a reason. Don't have to justify myself bucko, sorry you don't 'believe me' but its not skin off my back.
I think he is confused by what you mean by 'passives'. Did you mean traits in the skill trees? Or signets?
Signets aren't really passives, they have an active ability attached to them.
Weapon swap = 5x2 + heal + 3 utility + ultimate + class abilities on f1-4 keys depending on class = 16-19 active skills per class, more on elementalist.
More pure ignorance.
Edit 2: Actually your GW2 numbers are wrong. Its 4 + Ultimate... not 5. And the F1-F4 CAN be passive socketed, and I bet its optimal to have some be passive. So You are just fudging numbers now.
F1-F4 skills are not "passive socketed" they are default class skills and they are always active skills. There are no passive only utility skills in GW2 either, as things that provide passive benefits like signets also have active effects too. The only thing that provides passive only effects are traits, food, and rune/sigil effects.
Also Nihilist posted accurately. It's 5X2 (5 weapon skills + 5 more on swap), Heal, 3 non-heal/elite utility, Elite Skill, and class abilities that vary by class. Some classes can get far more skill options, for example the Engineer can put a Kit in utility which when used gives them an entirely new set of weapon skills and the Elementalist class skills give them new weapon skills based on attunements. You also have unique underwater weapon skills and downed skills by class. He's not fudging numbers.
What would be the point if he doesn't like the core game? Lets be honest, some things are just not going to change. If he finds the game boring at its core, adding some fluff on top isn't going to fix it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games as you. Stop trying so hard to make everyone like the same stuff you do. If they were spreading lies about the game I could understand the fanboyism, but they are just sharing opinions that they don't find the game enjoyable. No need to get bent out of shape about it.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
No the sheer defensiveness of your posts is what makes you a fanboy. They weren't making false claims, they just said that it didn't interest them. So there was nothing to argue with them about.
This is pretty much how it went down:
'I don't like FFXIV'
'YES YOU DO, I WILL SHOW YOU WHY YOU LOVE THIS GAME!'
Its just not going to happen.
And before you go on the offensive with me, I'm a 1.0 player and will probably be playing come relaunch. Unless EQNext launches sooner than expected.
Weapon swap = 5x2 + heal + 3 utility + ultimate + class abilities on f1-4 keys depending on class = 16-19 active skills per class, more on elementalist.
More pure ignorance.
Edit 2: Actually your GW2 numbers are wrong. Its 4 + Ultimate... not 5. And the F1-F4 CAN be passive socketed, and I bet its optimal to have some be passive. So You are just fudging numbers now.
F1-F4 skills are not "passive socketed" they are default class skills and they are always active skills. There are no passive only utility skills in GW2 either, as things that provide passive benefits like signets also have active effects too. The only thing that provides passive only effects are traits, food, and rune/sigil effects.
Also Nihilist posted accurately. It's 5X2 (5 weapon skills + 5 more on swap), Heal, 3 non-heal/elite utility, Elite Skill, and class abilities that vary by class. Some classes can get far more skill options, for example the Engineer can put a Kit in utility which when used gives them an entirely new set of weapon skills and the Elementalist class skills give them new weapon skills based on attunements. You also have unique underwater weapon skills and downed skills by class. He's not fudging numbers.
Again, I was a warrior, my experience is based off warrior, if I was mistaken I am sorry, it has been a while since I played GW2.
I was rather certain that the F1 - F4 on my character was the socketed talents, and I remember picking passives (yes I recall you can active them to have an effect, yet I didn't really pay attention to that, as I was more going for just having less buttons. I went into the game thinking it was going to be like SMITE but an RPG. Which it was a little... That's how it felt when they were explaining the logic behind their game design. At least to me.
My original point stands, FFXIV has plenty of buttons. GW2 might as well, but that doesn't diminish FFXIV's number.
I don't see any of the abilities doing "the same thing" as others suggest either.
What would be the point if he doesn't like the core game? Lets be honest, some things are just not going to change. If he finds the game boring at its core, adding some fluff on top isn't going to fix it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games as you. Stop trying so hard to make everyone like the same stuff you do. If they were spreading lies about the game I could understand the fanboyism, but they are just sharing opinions that they don't find the game enjoyable. No need to get bent out of shape about it.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
No the sheer defensiveness of your posts is what makes you a fanboy. They weren't making false claims, they just said that it didn't interest them. So there was nothing to argue with them about.
This is pretty much how it went down:
'I don't like FFXIV'
'YES YOU DO, I WILL SHOW YOU WHY YOU LOVE THIS GAME!'
Its just not going to happen.
And before you go on the offensive with me, I'm a 1.0 player and will probably be playing come relaunch. Unless EQNext launches sooner than expected.
It doesn't mater if you are a 1.0 player, legacy, or Yoshi P himself, you are rude, and off base.
Sorry you read into my tone and were offended, don't read my posts, do yourself a favor and block me. Thank you.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
Edit: I notice that you are unable to grasp my tone from my posts, I am in no way trying to come off as rude toward you, however you are directly confronting me and going way off topic. The topic of this thread is FFXIV, I was asking him to explain his feelings behind FFXIV. Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
Dude take your own advice. Please do share exactly what makes FFXIVs combat system so advanced.
True I have not played to max level, but I have read the ability descriptions for every skill in the game and have not seen much that isnt a single target damage, aoe damage, heal, root or stun which has been in every single MMO in the past 10+ years.
If you can explain to me how this combat will be more exciting than other recent games please do share. A 3.5s GCD alone puts this game back into the stone-age in terms of combat speed.
I find it to be good enough... though combat needs more spice to it. I personally loved the class system in FF11 (still feel its one of the best out there)and FF14 just is behind in reaching that level. Mixing and matching skills just feels so 'meh' to me and will just be about mix/maxing certain skills rather then having more choice and planning about which class will synergize best, having to lose out on some things to gain others. Sure, does involve min/maxing but it at least felt like your choice was far more important then what this game does.
Over-all it might be worth paying $30 for a month or 2 of play, though I honestly don't see it lasting that long for me.
iam glad SE does its own thing otherwise it would have been mmo #9081212319 with all the same shit we have seen past 10 years. it wont be a mmo for evryone, its a pure Final Fantasy mmo, dont like it ? tuff luck /goodbye
What is better is that SE doesnt need to listen to all those forum baby's to maintain high sub numbers. They can do it the way they want it without having the need worry about hitting 2 millions subs.
This is what makes me very happy, finaly an mmo that follows a strong developer with a vision instead of finance department screaming to change evrything for the $$$
10/10 SE job well done
This type of attitude is exactly what led to version 1.0 and one of the worst financial years in SEs recent history.
The combat in this game is pressing 2, possibly 3 buttons for the first 15 levels which is around 4-5 hours of gameplay. A lot of people probably wont spend much more time than that in a 2 day beta, so its fairly obvious why there are skeptical people here.
The combat has absolutely 0 innovation for the genre. I was doing the exact same rotations in DAOC 12+ years ago.
It's funny to me how many people on these boards want something "more" in a game than combat, yet complain when combat isn't new and different, yet complain when combat is new and different (GW2, AoC, TERA, NW, etc.)
I'm reserving my judgement of FFXIV:ARR combat until I gain a few more levels and start playing with the cross-class abilities and such.
lol right. ppl will never be happy in this genre, but you cant please everyone.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
Edit: I notice that you are unable to grasp my tone from my posts, I am in no way trying to come off as rude toward you, however you are directly confronting me and going way off topic. The topic of this thread is FFXIV, I was asking him to explain his feelings behind FFXIV. Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
Dude take your own advice. Please do share exactly what makes FFXIVs combat system so advanced.
True I have not played to max level, but I have read the ability descriptions for every skill in the game and have not seen much that isnt a single target damage, aoe damage, heal, root or stun which has been in every single MMO in the past 10+ years.
If you can explain to me how this combat will be more exciting than other recent games please do share. A 3.5s GCD alone puts this game back into the stone-age in terms of combat speed.
Saying 3.5s GCD already discredit any knowledge you know about the battle system bro.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
Edit: I notice that you are unable to grasp my tone from my posts, I am in no way trying to come off as rude toward you, however you are directly confronting me and going way off topic. The topic of this thread is FFXIV, I was asking him to explain his feelings behind FFXIV. Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
Dude take your own advice. Please do share exactly what makes FFXIVs combat system so advanced.
True I have not played to max level, but I have read the ability descriptions for every skill in the game and have not seen much that isnt a single target damage, aoe damage, heal, root or stun which has been in every single MMO in the past 10+ years.
If you can explain to me how this combat will be more exciting than other recent games please do share. A 3.5s GCD alone puts this game back into the stone-age in terms of combat speed.
I'd be more than happy to do so, I'm here to discuss these exact things.
FFXIV has monsters that have attacks much like other newer games, mobs target you with abilities where you must dodge, or interrupt or stun them in some way. There are cone attacks where you can run behind the monsters, there are bomb throws you can entirely dodge out of.
The combat is slower paced at the start, like many MMO's (I can't remember one that wasn't slow paced low level tbh). You get more abilities and you create combos. You can socket abilities from one class into another with some limitations.
There is a lot of MP / TP management in parties when you start to get to party content and higher level monsters. You can't just spam abilities you need to time things and conserve etc.
I'd be more than happy to answer any other questions about my opinions on the game.
Again, I was a warrior, my experience is based off warrior, if I was mistaken I am sorry, it has been a while since I played GW2.
I was rather certain that the F1 - F4 on my character was the socketed talents, and I remember picking passives (yes I recall you can active them to have an effect, yet I didn't really pay attention to that, as I was more going for just having less buttons. I went into the game thinking it was going to be like SMITE but an RPG. Which it was a little... That's how it felt when they were explaining the logic behind their game design. At least to me.
My original point stands, FFXIV has plenty of buttons. GW2 might as well, but that doesn't diminish FFXIV's number.
I don't see any of the abilities doing "the same thing" as others suggest either.
I think the big difference is (and a Signet Warrior in GW2 is the only exception here - though that's a solo leveling build and ineffective in PvP and higher end PvE) is that all the abilities in GW2 you actively use. Actually Warrior is probably the worst example of GW2's combat as they are the simplest class to play. FFXIV may have plenty of abilities, but the jobs boil down to hitting the same rotations over and over again for effective play. You'll use minute long+ cooldowns for buffs and such, and maybe occasionally a situational skill here and there, but for the most part it boils down to some boring rotations. CNJ was pretty much just spam Cure up to level 25 with maybe a Medica every once in a while if I had to. GLD was run in and spam Flash (or whatever the AoE enmity generation was) then get MP back up with Fast Blade + Riot Blade and repeat EVERY single pull with no variation whatsoever. Sure I used the short term buffs like Rampart, but the GLD boiled down to that rotation. Maybe other jobs are different, but that's my experience with those two.
So, while everyone is talking about the combat, I decided to look up the the full skill list in FFXIV. What I noticed is that my character in game has like a quarter of the skills available to them that is on the list.
I think the big difference is (and a Signet Warrior in GW2 is the only exception here - though that's a solo leveling build and ineffective in PvP and higher end PvE) is that all the abilities in GW2 you actively use. Actually Warrior is probably the worst example of GW2's combat as they are the simplest class to play. FFXIV may have plenty of abilities, but the jobs boil down to hitting the same rotations over and over again for effective play. You'll use minute long+ cooldowns for buffs and such, and maybe occasionally a situational skill here and there, but for the most part it boils down to some boring rotations. CNJ was pretty much just spam Cure up to level 25 with maybe a Medica every once in a while if I had to. GLD was run in and spam Flash (or whatever the AoE enmity generation was) then get MP back up with Fast Blade + Riot Blade and repeat EVERY single pull with no variation whatsoever. Sure I used the short term buffs like Rampart, but the GLD boiled down to that rotation. Maybe other jobs are different, but that's my experience with those two.
Then again, perhaps my experience is an unfortunate one that left a bad taste in my mouth because I played the wrong class.
To me that's how the combat felt, and generally I like to play Melee toons... the warrior really looked like my sorta class from just glancing at it. I am sorry if I miss represented the game based off my limited experience with the class I chose.
I agree with your analysis of the combat of FFXIV up to 25, however, is not most combat in most RPG's like that at level 25?
I remember in TERA I used but one healing spell as a mystic until level 60 when I finally got an AoE hot as well. Sure I had other abilities but I only really used that one.
In WoW I was recently leveling a warlock... got it to level 40 a few days ago, really only use about 3-4 buttons in my DPS rotation at that point.
I guess what I'm saying is that from what I'm reading about the abilities at higher level it looks like FFXIV has a lot of the same depth to its combat the other games I really enjoy have too (like WoW or FFXI or even TERA)
iam glad SE does its own thing otherwise it would have been mmo #9081212319 with all the same shit we have seen past 10 years. it wont be a mmo for evryone, its a pure Final Fantasy mmo, dont like it ? tuff luck /goodbye
What is better is that SE doesnt need to listen to all those forum baby's to maintain high sub numbers. They can do it the way they want it without having the need worry about hitting 2 millions subs.
This is what makes me very happy, finaly an mmo that follows a strong developer with a vision instead of finance department screaming to change evrything for the $$$
10/10 SE job well done
This type of attitude is exactly what led to version 1.0 and one of the worst financial years in SEs recent history.
The combat in this game is pressing 2, possibly 3 buttons for the first 15 levels which is around 4-5 hours of gameplay. A lot of people probably wont spend much more time than that in a 2 day beta, so its fairly obvious why there are skeptical people here.
The combat has absolutely 0 innovation for the genre. I was doing the exact same rotations in DAOC 12+ years ago.
LoL I am sorry, but that is what MMO's ARE bro ... you press buttons to attack.... personally I much prefer it than certain action RPG's "action combat". Action combat isn't really MMO... its hack'n'slash... Last one I played was not only easy sauce, but boring through the long haul.
thank you someone finally said it. and i dont know any MMOs where you press more than 3 - 4 buttons sub lvl 15, unless its an "Action MMO" where you press 3 - 4 buttons the whole game.
So, while everyone is talking about the combat, I decided to look up the the full skill list in FFXIV. What I noticed is that my character in game has like a quarter of the skills available to them that is on the list.
So, while everyone is talking about the combat, I decided to look up the the full skill list in FFXIV. What I noticed is that my character in game has like a quarter of the skills available to them that is on the list.
And here is what I am apparently now able to learn as a Thaumaturge List
So... did they just gut the skills incredibly since the last version?
There is a FFXIV database that has the current list of abilities.
Yes they did change a lot from 1.0's skill list, they did remove and change a lot of skills as well as adjust when you get certain abilities too.
It's not just the incredible amount they removed though. It's also what the skills actually do. They are much, much simpler now than they were before. The old skills honestly look pretty interesting, but these new ones don't at all. Perhaps there has been a disconnect between the players that come from the old version and the players that are playing the new version because of this. Because they look VERY simplified compared to the old versions.
So, while everyone is talking about the combat, I decided to look up the the full skill list in FFXIV. What I noticed is that my character in game has like a quarter of the skills available to them that is on the list.
And here is what I am apparently now able to learn as a Thaumaturge List
So... did they just gut the skills incredibly since the last version?
There is a FFXIV database that has the current list of abilities.
Yes they did change a lot from 1.0's skill list, they did remove and change a lot of skills as well as adjust when you get certain abilities too.
It's not just the incredible amount they removed though. It's also what the skills actually do. They are much, much simpler now than they were before. The old skills honestly look pretty interesting, but these new ones don't at all. Perhaps there has been a disconnect between the players that come from the old version and the players that are playing the new version because of this. Because they look VERY simplified compared to the old versions.
Honestly I don't feel it was that simplified. The old way really wasn't that complex, a lot of the skills they removed were simply not used because they were not optimal. You had dots, you had sacrifice (which was OP), you mainly spammed phantom dart after that point. You tried to used defensive moves you socketed from other classes too.
It just had a lot of skills / spells that you really didn't use.
A huge complaint about 1.0 was that every class felt so similar because everyone could socket everything, they made effort to ensure that didn't happen this time.
Then again, perhaps my experience is an unfortunate one that left a bad taste in my mouth because I played the wrong class.
To me that's how the combat felt, and generally I like to play Melee toons... the warrior really looked like my sorta class from just glancing at it. I am sorry if I miss represented the game based off my limited experience with the class I chose.
I agree with your analysis of the combat of FFXIV up to 25, however, is not most combat in most RPG's like that at level 25?
I remember in TERA I used but one healing spell as a mystic until level 60 when I finally got an AoE hot as well. Sure I had other abilities but I only really used that one.
In WoW I was recently leveling a warlock... got it to level 40 a few days ago, really only use about 3-4 buttons in my DPS rotation at that point.
I guess what I'm saying is that from what I'm reading about the abilities at higher level it looks like FFXIV has a lot of the same depth to its combat the other games I really enjoy have too (like WoW or FFXI or even TERA)
True, but mostly comparing it to GW2 where all the skills are unlockable except the Elite (30 in that case) within an hour or two of play. Honestly for me, it's hard to go back to the old combat simulator style of combat after playing GW2 or even Neverwinter (and a few other unique MMOs like Wakfu). For the record I'm not a fan of TERA's combat either and WoW isn't too bad, but certainly boils down to rotations especially at low levels.
Comments
You socketed all passive abilities, eh? Just keep digging man. You don't know what you're talking about.
No offense, but you underestimate how little life I have.
FFXIV has a lot of abilities that do a variety of things, there is a lot of data mined info that I am simply unable to post here (as it would violate NDA and this site's rules)
So I suggest that if you want to enlighten yourself, google, or play the game some.
What would be the point if he doesn't like the core game? Lets be honest, some things are just not going to change. If he finds the game boring at its core, adding some fluff on top isn't going to fix it.
Not everyone is going to like the same games as you. Stop trying so hard to make everyone like the same stuff you do. If they were spreading lies about the game I could understand the fanboyism, but they are just sharing opinions that they don't find the game enjoyable. No need to get bent out of shape about it.
LoL I am sorry, but that is what MMO's ARE bro ... you press buttons to attack.... personally I much prefer it than certain action RPG's "action combat". Action combat isn't really MMO... its hack'n'slash... Last one I played was not only easy sauce, but boring through the long haul.
I did, I'm sorry was I streaming and you watched me "not" do what I am claiming?
I don't like hitting a lot of buttons in a game that is self described as having limited hot bar for a reason. Don't have to justify myself bucko, sorry you don't 'believe me' but its not skin off my back.
Clearly you missed the part where I was describing LOW LEVEL. Yes combat does get more complex at higher levels in GW2... guess what, you haven't seen the higher levels in FFXIV to compare to yet!
I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking someone to justify their opinion on a website is some how being a fanboy.
I merely wanted him to explain his logic, if that offends you then perhaps you should stop visiting a forum where people express opinions and ask for reasoning behind their logic.
Edit: I notice that you are unable to grasp my tone from my posts, I am in no way trying to come off as rude toward you, however you are directly confronting me and going way off topic. The topic of this thread is FFXIV, I was asking him to explain his feelings behind FFXIV. Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
I think he is confused by what you mean by 'passives'. Did you mean traits in the skill trees? Or signets?
Signets aren't really passives, they have an active ability attached to them.
F1-F4 skills are not "passive socketed" they are default class skills and they are always active skills. There are no passive only utility skills in GW2 either, as things that provide passive benefits like signets also have active effects too. The only thing that provides passive only effects are traits, food, and rune/sigil effects.
Also Nihilist posted accurately. It's 5X2 (5 weapon skills + 5 more on swap), Heal, 3 non-heal/elite utility, Elite Skill, and class abilities that vary by class. Some classes can get far more skill options, for example the Engineer can put a Kit in utility which when used gives them an entirely new set of weapon skills and the Elementalist class skills give them new weapon skills based on attunements. You also have unique underwater weapon skills and downed skills by class. He's not fudging numbers.
No the sheer defensiveness of your posts is what makes you a fanboy. They weren't making false claims, they just said that it didn't interest them. So there was nothing to argue with them about.
This is pretty much how it went down:
'I don't like FFXIV'
'YES YOU DO, I WILL SHOW YOU WHY YOU LOVE THIS GAME!'
Its just not going to happen.
And before you go on the offensive with me, I'm a 1.0 player and will probably be playing come relaunch. Unless EQNext launches sooner than expected.
Again, I was a warrior, my experience is based off warrior, if I was mistaken I am sorry, it has been a while since I played GW2.
I was rather certain that the F1 - F4 on my character was the socketed talents, and I remember picking passives (yes I recall you can active them to have an effect, yet I didn't really pay attention to that, as I was more going for just having less buttons. I went into the game thinking it was going to be like SMITE but an RPG. Which it was a little... That's how it felt when they were explaining the logic behind their game design. At least to me.
My original point stands, FFXIV has plenty of buttons. GW2 might as well, but that doesn't diminish FFXIV's number.
I don't see any of the abilities doing "the same thing" as others suggest either.
It doesn't mater if you are a 1.0 player, legacy, or Yoshi P himself, you are rude, and off base.
Sorry you read into my tone and were offended, don't read my posts, do yourself a favor and block me. Thank you.
Dude take your own advice. Please do share exactly what makes FFXIVs combat system so advanced.
True I have not played to max level, but I have read the ability descriptions for every skill in the game and have not seen much that isnt a single target damage, aoe damage, heal, root or stun which has been in every single MMO in the past 10+ years.
If you can explain to me how this combat will be more exciting than other recent games please do share. A 3.5s GCD alone puts this game back into the stone-age in terms of combat speed.
I find it to be good enough... though combat needs more spice to it. I personally loved the class system in FF11 (still feel its one of the best out there)and FF14 just is behind in reaching that level. Mixing and matching skills just feels so 'meh' to me and will just be about mix/maxing certain skills rather then having more choice and planning about which class will synergize best, having to lose out on some things to gain others. Sure, does involve min/maxing but it at least felt like your choice was far more important then what this game does.
Over-all it might be worth paying $30 for a month or 2 of play, though I honestly don't see it lasting that long for me.
lol right. ppl will never be happy in this genre, but you cant please everyone.
Saying 3.5s GCD already discredit any knowledge you know about the battle system bro.
I'd be more than happy to do so, I'm here to discuss these exact things.
FFXIV has monsters that have attacks much like other newer games, mobs target you with abilities where you must dodge, or interrupt or stun them in some way. There are cone attacks where you can run behind the monsters, there are bomb throws you can entirely dodge out of.
The combat is slower paced at the start, like many MMO's (I can't remember one that wasn't slow paced low level tbh). You get more abilities and you create combos. You can socket abilities from one class into another with some limitations.
There is a lot of MP / TP management in parties when you start to get to party content and higher level monsters. You can't just spam abilities you need to time things and conserve etc.
I'd be more than happy to answer any other questions about my opinions on the game.
I think the big difference is (and a Signet Warrior in GW2 is the only exception here - though that's a solo leveling build and ineffective in PvP and higher end PvE) is that all the abilities in GW2 you actively use. Actually Warrior is probably the worst example of GW2's combat as they are the simplest class to play. FFXIV may have plenty of abilities, but the jobs boil down to hitting the same rotations over and over again for effective play. You'll use minute long+ cooldowns for buffs and such, and maybe occasionally a situational skill here and there, but for the most part it boils down to some boring rotations. CNJ was pretty much just spam Cure up to level 25 with maybe a Medica every once in a while if I had to. GLD was run in and spam Flash (or whatever the AoE enmity generation was) then get MP back up with Fast Blade + Riot Blade and repeat EVERY single pull with no variation whatsoever. Sure I used the short term buffs like Rampart, but the GLD boiled down to that rotation. Maybe other jobs are different, but that's my experience with those two.
So, while everyone is talking about the combat, I decided to look up the the full skill list in FFXIV. What I noticed is that my character in game has like a quarter of the skills available to them that is on the list.
Here is the list from ZAM: List
And here is what I am apparently now able to learn as a Thaumaturge List
So... did they just gut the skills incredibly since the last version?
Then again, perhaps my experience is an unfortunate one that left a bad taste in my mouth because I played the wrong class.
To me that's how the combat felt, and generally I like to play Melee toons... the warrior really looked like my sorta class from just glancing at it. I am sorry if I miss represented the game based off my limited experience with the class I chose.
I agree with your analysis of the combat of FFXIV up to 25, however, is not most combat in most RPG's like that at level 25?
I remember in TERA I used but one healing spell as a mystic until level 60 when I finally got an AoE hot as well. Sure I had other abilities but I only really used that one.
In WoW I was recently leveling a warlock... got it to level 40 a few days ago, really only use about 3-4 buttons in my DPS rotation at that point.
I guess what I'm saying is that from what I'm reading about the abilities at higher level it looks like FFXIV has a lot of the same depth to its combat the other games I really enjoy have too (like WoW or FFXI or even TERA)
thank you someone finally said it. and i dont know any MMOs where you press more than 3 - 4 buttons sub lvl 15, unless its an "Action MMO" where you press 3 - 4 buttons the whole game.
There is a FFXIV database that has the current list of abilities.
Yes they did change a lot from 1.0's skill list, they did remove and change a lot of skills as well as adjust when you get certain abilities too.
It's not just the incredible amount they removed though. It's also what the skills actually do. They are much, much simpler now than they were before. The old skills honestly look pretty interesting, but these new ones don't at all. Perhaps there has been a disconnect between the players that come from the old version and the players that are playing the new version because of this. Because they look VERY simplified compared to the old versions.
Honestly I don't feel it was that simplified. The old way really wasn't that complex, a lot of the skills they removed were simply not used because they were not optimal. You had dots, you had sacrifice (which was OP), you mainly spammed phantom dart after that point. You tried to used defensive moves you socketed from other classes too.
It just had a lot of skills / spells that you really didn't use.
A huge complaint about 1.0 was that every class felt so similar because everyone could socket everything, they made effort to ensure that didn't happen this time.
True, but mostly comparing it to GW2 where all the skills are unlockable except the Elite (30 in that case) within an hour or two of play. Honestly for me, it's hard to go back to the old combat simulator style of combat after playing GW2 or even Neverwinter (and a few other unique MMOs like Wakfu). For the record I'm not a fan of TERA's combat either and WoW isn't too bad, but certainly boils down to rotations especially at low levels.