Originally posted by SpottyGekko To me, "long term" means playing a single MMO almost exclusively (80% of the time) for at least 6 months consecutively. I reached that milestone comfortably with 3 MMO's that were launched before 2005.I have have not even made it anywhere close to my minimum limit on any MMO's launched after 2005. EDIT: Just to clarify, that's 80% of my gaming time, not 80% of my waking time
I was going to go with six months as the definition of "long term", but I do remember people specifically referring to a year or more as the duration of a "good" MMO. I didn't want to get bogged down with trying to define the term, since it would definitely cause an argument on what a long term player actually was.
Some things are definite, like two months isn't a long term commitment to an MMO, while a year I think would be considered a long term commitment to an MMO. A lot of the time between two months and a year would be debatable, and debated, so I just left it up to the people answering the poll.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Zapzap ...I think the gamehopper phenom is more a new and younger player trait. More from players who do not know what they want in a MMO if they even like MMOs.
Valid point. I think MMOs are trying to cash in on the console player market, and to a point they are succeeding; but at the cost of losing MMORPG players.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I just left it up to the people answering the poll.
If people can't decide on their own what long term is..... It wasn't important to define a time line. I assume you were only trying to get a feel for how people play mmos now vrs then. So yeah you made the right choice :P
When I was a child, with huge amounts of free time and not enough relationships to be interested in making friends in the games, I was long-term player (EVE in particular).
Now I don't have free time or desire for long-term commitment, so I'm playing games for a couple of months each, no more; well, with the exception of World of Tanks, but it's not a mmorpg, and it doesn't want my full-time commitment. It wants me to have some fun for 15 minutes and then I'm free to be busy.
So, I'm hopping now, and not going to be long term ever again, no matter how wonderful the game is gonna be. I'm just not a child anymore.
I've always stuck around the games I play for a long time. I've been playing WoW since launch, except for 2 months a little while ago, since I didn't have time to play it. Played DAoC for 8 years, played FFXI for 3-4 years. Pretty much any game I liked I stuck around for awhile.
I used to hop around a lot more in my last 2 years of high school I played DAoC, SWG, FFXI, and Lineage 2. Since then I've tried WoW for a very short period, Aion for a short period and ffxiv for a short period but I played Lineage 2 for about 2 years total in 2 sections and ffxi i had over 1000 days of playtime over the course of 11 years off and on. Playing for 3 years straight at one point and for this past year. So I hopped around a lot more then I do now.
I played EQ for nearly 12 years but after about 7 years it was off and on. I played WoW for I think 6 years but last few was off and on till now that I am off all MMO's. I hopped around a few but nothing had what I wanted. I am hoping EQ:N will be long term for me, I want long term again. I might try Wildstar but I won't if its to much a WoW clone, just don't know enough about it to comment there.
Today, I am simply trying to find something different than the "kill x*x, get x bring to y, raid this x*infinity time to get good gear" type of MMOs, I want to impact the world and leave a lasting mark on it. I want my decisions to matter. Not get the uber sword or armor.
Unfortunately, you'll never do that in an MMO. You can't. Everyone does the same quests you do, everyone kills the same mobs you do, you're not special and will never be special, you can never make a difference, otherwise everyone would make a difference and there would be chaos. If you want to make a difference, play SP games, although there too, there are millions of people playing the same games, making the same differences, but at least in your own little corner of reality, it's all you.
Perhaps not in today's MMO, but we use to be able to do so in MMORPG's. Example crafting outcomes never where the same from different crafters in SWG, take 20 crafters all to use the same recipe pistol bet's are you get 20 different type of pistols all with different stats. Yes this doesn't seem possible with most of today's A-Tittle MMO's. You didn't needed quests really back in the day you had a community with needs and wants, crafters needing resources they where not skilled enough to gather, combatants seeking the best armor but needed crafter to make them the best gear. There for needing each other, depending on the community rather then depending on NPC's to shape the world.
Personaly I feel much more rewared if the gear I wear is either made by me or I gathered the resources for it to let another crafter make it. Instead of completing quest and being rewarded with that same gear. Not saying the quest reward is wrong, just isn't how I prefer it, yet can enjoy it aswell depending on the game.
Here is hoping on EQN to bring back of that same magic.
As for OP. Ever since you geussed it SWG there hasn't been a long term game for me. There are some wich offer me the greatest feature's I love yet the setting/graphics or me being a spaceship turn me off.
Currently more of the hopping type. Neverwinter my first F2P I actually enjoyed, but after 3 months of beta and reaching cap lvl with 2 toons I am only logging in to build up my craft and Astral Diamonds and meanwhile entering back into Rift. Beta player, bought game played my 30 day's and left. I think I left mainly because of many good singleplayer games to play at the time.
Personally, i see no reason to ever be a long term player EVER again. There are simply too many options, why would I want to grind the same thing over and over and over when i can start a new game and experience something different even if it is simply for a short time.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Back in the EQ and DAoC days there wasnt much choice was there? Probaly the reason why people sticked, on top of that there was more difference between UO, DAoC, AO, EQ, AC and SWTOR then today between thos 100s of games.
No, that's not it. Don't think any EQ lifer sat around thinking...hmm, nothing to play so guess I'll load up EQ. Instead, we were foaming at the mouth by the time we got home from work; and practically jumped into the computer chair, big grins on our faces, as we hit the login screen.
Just look at table top gaming. Hundreds of games, but most gamers played one or a select few of them. People didn't hop to a new RPG every two months.
Do you think that bachus said it? Big difference between saying "I will be a lifer in this game" vs "hey, let's look at this new game". People don't eat the same thing 3 meals a day for a year. Right?
The difference is today you have 100's of games to play. F2P is giving people the option to try many games. It's options.
But I like your attempt to twist it. What do you have against the idea that people played a long time? What is your real angle here?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
EVE keeps going, but I have no issues paying subs for multiple games at the same time. When I get bored of EVE I play something else, be it single player, multiplayer, or mmo. Just because I have a sub to a game doesn't mean I have to spend every gaming moment in that game.
But the question should be how many of these now hoppers, hop because they can't find anything good or they think most things are good.
I "hop" becuase I can't find one mmo to keep me.
Lineage 2 was great for 4.5 years but the economy killed my interest. Now I try it but for some reason I get a horrendous lag. It's actually unplayable and I have no idea why.
LOTRO was great but I don't like where they took the game.
I just play single player games and dabble now.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by waynejr2 Originally posted by ArclanOriginally posted by Lord.BachusBack in the EQ and DAoC days there wasnt much choice was there? Probaly the reason why people sticked, on top of that there was more difference between UO, DAoC, AO, EQ, AC and SWTOR then today between thos 100s of games.
No, that's not it. Don't think any EQ lifer sat around thinking...hmm, nothing to play so guess I'll load up EQ. Instead, we were foaming at the mouth by the time we got home from work; and practically jumped into the computer chair, big grins on our faces, as we hit the login screen.Just look at table top gaming. Hundreds of games, but most gamers played one or a select few of them. People didn't hop to a new RPG every two months. Do you think that bachus said it? Big difference between saying "I will be a lifer in this game" vs "hey, let's look at this new game". People don't eat the same thing 3 meals a day for a year. Right?
The difference is today you have 100's of games to play. F2P is giving people the option to try many games. It's options.
But I like your attempt to twist it. What do you have against the idea that people played a long time? What is your real angle here?
Please try to rephrase your point, if you had one, so that I can address your concerns/criticisms. Your post makes no sense to me beyond a few incendiary buzzwords.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Back in the day, there were only a small handful of games out to play. Everquest was THE big game at the time. Ultima Online was decent, but remember that is a 2-D isometric game. EQ was 3D....that drew in a lot of people, plus the game was great.
Games were subscriptions back then. No F2P, no buy to play, no item shop, no freemium...none of that garbage. You payed 15 bucks a month and that was that. Even WOW was/still is subscription. The whole F2P thing arose because there were too many games to play and too few players to play them. D&D Online jump started the F2P thing and here we are.
I don't think people today realize how people played EQ back then. You played it all night. This wasn't a game where you logged on for an hour. You logged on and stayed on until you started seeing daylight through a nearby window, often times you would fall asleep at the keyboard.
There simply wasn't any game jumpers. The games required a huge time investment. If you played Asheron's Call, then that was probably the only game you played. EQers played EQ. Ultima Online players stuck with that game. You characters had significant time invested in them. It took months, even years to get to max level with great loot.
The first game to come along where people tried to jump to was DAOC. Most people who were already invested in those other games stayed with that game. DAOC was only a two or three month break from EQ. If you didn't have a game or were brand new to the genre then DAOC was your game your probably stuck with.
Around that time WOW was in Beta and it was very popular but very different from the first generation of games. WOW captured an entire new audience that never played MMOs before.
Once EQ2 was in the works and SWG came along, you started to have your game jumpers because now you had not only more games but different genres. The next big increase in game jumpers was the F2P era because it did not cost you much to try something else.
Now, game developers design games where they assume you will be jumping ship in three months. So they copy and paste with as little effort, try to make money fast then move on to the next project.
I played EQ for years while also playing Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot. I have been playing Warcraft since the beta and have been playing Vanguard since release. There were and are plenty of long timers.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I was more of a hopping long termer. I played UO for a few months until I went to EQ at release and played it up solely until the scars of velious release as by then the game just felt different. Got hooked on DAoC played it until catacombs. Wow I would play for a few months then wander off to another mmo back to WoW rinse and repeat for years. WoW was only fun when I had a good group of friends to run around with and would start over after hitting max level as the raiders in WoW made me wish for a massive influx of sterility in this generation. Looking for something that will pull me into a virtual world or at least as close as EQ or DAoC were.
Today, I am simply trying to find something different than the "kill x*x, get x bring to y, raid this x*infinity time to get good gear" type of MMOs, I want to impact the world and leave a lasting mark on it. I want my decisions to matter. Not get the uber sword or armor.
Unfortunately, you'll never do that in an MMO. You can't. Everyone does the same quests you do, everyone kills the same mobs you do, you're not special and will never be special, you can never make a difference, otherwise everyone would make a difference and there would be chaos. If you want to make a difference, play SP games, although there too, there are millions of people playing the same games, making the same differences, but at least in your own little corner of reality, it's all you.
No, in all MMO's to date, you had almost zero chance of leaving your "mark" in the game world. It was an extremely rare event.
But in games that are played with a longterm commitment, you'll often leave "your mark" in the memories of other players. They will remember your avatar, because you became known for certain things. Perhaps you were really good at playing your class (back in the day when "class" had a very narrow definition), or you were really helpful, or you always made the whole guild laugh in Teamspeak. Or you were one of the few crafters on your server that always had the resources on hand to make anything anyone asked for.
If you run into the same PK'er in or near the Crystal Forest for months on end, you'll remember their name. You will grow to hate/fear/loathe that player.
You'll remember the other players in the world, because you grow to know them over time.
I look for a longterm mmo space to hang my hat. After an older game changes or I get burned out, I may hop for a while. But I'm looking for a longterm place to settle in. I've played some mmos exclusively for 5+ years, 2+ years, and then hop a bit looking for the next one.
I've only played my latest for 8 months and it has already (recently) changed a ton but I'm hopeful the reasons I play won't change so much I have to go looking again.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Back in the EQ and DAoC days there wasnt much choice was there? Probaly the reason why people sticked, on top of that there was more difference between UO, DAoC, AO, EQ, AC and SWTOR then today between thos 100s of games.
No, that's not it. Don't think any EQ lifer sat around thinking...hmm, nothing to play so guess I'll load up EQ. Instead, we were foaming at the mouth by the time we got home from work; and practically jumped into the computer chair, big grins on our faces, as we hit the login screen.
Just look at table top gaming. Hundreds of games, but most gamers played one or a select few of them. People didn't hop to a new RPG every two months.
This made me smile.
I was an EQlifer and even threw sickys so i could play, damn it i lost jobs over EQ at it's peek. Do i look at it through rose coloured glasses? no i still keep going back to EQ now.
Recently myself and a few friends subbed back up and went through some of the newer content, and although the game has changed a lot, the core mechanics stayed the same. You see older games were not just about no choice but building a game that could hold onto people.
Dont forget that 500k subs represented a hige slice of onlines gamers back then.
EQ and it's brothers were more about living in an adventure, your not going to get loot falling of trees and when you did get a drop it was something to show of to your friends.
Newer generation games are more about instant gratification. loot falls of trees, even if there are no trees. you can go afk in a PVP arena and after a few weeks have the top tier reward armour.
I am not saying either system is better or worse, just that they are a world away from each other.
Comments
I was going to go with six months as the definition of "long term", but I do remember people specifically referring to a year or more as the duration of a "good" MMO. I didn't want to get bogged down with trying to define the term, since it would definitely cause an argument on what a long term player actually was.
Some things are definite, like two months isn't a long term commitment to an MMO, while a year I think would be considered a long term commitment to an MMO. A lot of the time between two months and a year would be debatable, and debated, so I just left it up to the people answering the poll.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I played Neverwinter nights for years.. good times.
Now I'm looking forward to star citizen hoping to find a reason to stay long term
http://forum.gloriavictisgame.com/member.php?action=register&referrer=2457
Valid point. I think MMOs are trying to cash in on the console player market, and to a point they are succeeding; but at the cost of losing MMORPG players.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
If people can't decide on their own what long term is..... It wasn't important to define a time line. I assume you were only trying to get a feel for how people play mmos now vrs then. So yeah you made the right choice :P
When I was a child, with huge amounts of free time and not enough relationships to be interested in making friends in the games, I was long-term player (EVE in particular).
Now I don't have free time or desire for long-term commitment, so I'm playing games for a couple of months each, no more; well, with the exception of World of Tanks, but it's not a mmorpg, and it doesn't want my full-time commitment. It wants me to have some fun for 15 minutes and then I'm free to be busy.
So, I'm hopping now, and not going to be long term ever again, no matter how wonderful the game is gonna be. I'm just not a child anymore.
Was long term now hopping.
Going to join friends in LOTRO tonight so I might go back long term with that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
used to be long term .. there was nothing to hop back in the EQ days.
Now hopping. Why limit myself to a single game when there are different experiences out there?
But the question should be how many of these now hoppers, hop because they can't find anything good or they think most things are good.
Personally I was longer term and still feel I could be again, but all the new F2P is crap and no way encourages me to be a long term player.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Most things are fun. Otherwise, why would I spend even 5 min hopping onto it?
Perhaps not in today's MMO, but we use to be able to do so in MMORPG's. Example crafting outcomes never where the same from different crafters in SWG, take 20 crafters all to use the same recipe pistol bet's are you get 20 different type of pistols all with different stats. Yes this doesn't seem possible with most of today's A-Tittle MMO's. You didn't needed quests really back in the day you had a community with needs and wants, crafters needing resources they where not skilled enough to gather, combatants seeking the best armor but needed crafter to make them the best gear. There for needing each other, depending on the community rather then depending on NPC's to shape the world.
Personaly I feel much more rewared if the gear I wear is either made by me or I gathered the resources for it to let another crafter make it. Instead of completing quest and being rewarded with that same gear. Not saying the quest reward is wrong, just isn't how I prefer it, yet can enjoy it aswell depending on the game.
Here is hoping on EQN to bring back of that same magic.
As for OP. Ever since you geussed it SWG there hasn't been a long term game for me. There are some wich offer me the greatest feature's I love yet the setting/graphics or me being a spaceship turn me off.
Currently more of the hopping type. Neverwinter my first F2P I actually enjoyed, but after 3 months of beta and reaching cap lvl with 2 toons I am only logging in to build up my craft and Astral Diamonds and meanwhile entering back into Rift. Beta player, bought game played my 30 day's and left. I think I left mainly because of many good singleplayer games to play at the time.
Personally, i see no reason to ever be a long term player EVER again. There are simply too many options, why would I want to grind the same thing over and over and over when i can start a new game and experience something different even if it is simply for a short time.
Do you think that bachus said it? Big difference between saying "I will be a lifer in this game" vs "hey, let's look at this new game". People don't eat the same thing 3 meals a day for a year. Right?
The difference is today you have 100's of games to play. F2P is giving people the option to try many games. It's options.
But I like your attempt to twist it. What do you have against the idea that people played a long time? What is your real angle here?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I long term while hopping.
EVE keeps going, but I have no issues paying subs for multiple games at the same time. When I get bored of EVE I play something else, be it single player, multiplayer, or mmo. Just because I have a sub to a game doesn't mean I have to spend every gaming moment in that game.
Now with 57.3% more flames!
I "hop" becuase I can't find one mmo to keep me.
Lineage 2 was great for 4.5 years but the economy killed my interest. Now I try it but for some reason I get a horrendous lag. It's actually unplayable and I have no idea why.
LOTRO was great but I don't like where they took the game.
I just play single player games and dabble now.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Do you think that bachus said it? Big difference between saying "I will be a lifer in this game" vs "hey, let's look at this new game". People don't eat the same thing 3 meals a day for a year. Right?
The difference is today you have 100's of games to play. F2P is giving people the option to try many games. It's options.
But I like your attempt to twist it. What do you have against the idea that people played a long time? What is your real angle here?
Please try to rephrase your point, if you had one, so that I can address your concerns/criticisms. Your post makes no sense to me beyond a few incendiary buzzwords.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Time to educate the youngsters!
Back in the day, there were only a small handful of games out to play. Everquest was THE big game at the time. Ultima Online was decent, but remember that is a 2-D isometric game. EQ was 3D....that drew in a lot of people, plus the game was great.
Games were subscriptions back then. No F2P, no buy to play, no item shop, no freemium...none of that garbage. You payed 15 bucks a month and that was that. Even WOW was/still is subscription. The whole F2P thing arose because there were too many games to play and too few players to play them. D&D Online jump started the F2P thing and here we are.
I don't think people today realize how people played EQ back then. You played it all night. This wasn't a game where you logged on for an hour. You logged on and stayed on until you started seeing daylight through a nearby window, often times you would fall asleep at the keyboard.
There simply wasn't any game jumpers. The games required a huge time investment. If you played Asheron's Call, then that was probably the only game you played. EQers played EQ. Ultima Online players stuck with that game. You characters had significant time invested in them. It took months, even years to get to max level with great loot.
The first game to come along where people tried to jump to was DAOC. Most people who were already invested in those other games stayed with that game. DAOC was only a two or three month break from EQ. If you didn't have a game or were brand new to the genre then DAOC was your game your probably stuck with.
Around that time WOW was in Beta and it was very popular but very different from the first generation of games. WOW captured an entire new audience that never played MMOs before.
Once EQ2 was in the works and SWG came along, you started to have your game jumpers because now you had not only more games but different genres. The next big increase in game jumpers was the F2P era because it did not cost you much to try something else.
Now, game developers design games where they assume you will be jumping ship in three months. So they copy and paste with as little effort, try to make money fast then move on to the next project.
But back then? Nope. No real game jumpers.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
No, in all MMO's to date, you had almost zero chance of leaving your "mark" in the game world. It was an extremely rare event.
But in games that are played with a longterm commitment, you'll often leave "your mark" in the memories of other players. They will remember your avatar, because you became known for certain things. Perhaps you were really good at playing your class (back in the day when "class" had a very narrow definition), or you were really helpful, or you always made the whole guild laugh in Teamspeak. Or you were one of the few crafters on your server that always had the resources on hand to make anything anyone asked for.
If you run into the same PK'er in or near the Crystal Forest for months on end, you'll remember their name. You will grow to hate/fear/loathe that player.
You'll remember the other players in the world, because you grow to know them over time.
I look for a longterm mmo space to hang my hat. After an older game changes or I get burned out, I may hop for a while. But I'm looking for a longterm place to settle in. I've played some mmos exclusively for 5+ years, 2+ years, and then hop a bit looking for the next one.
I've only played my latest for 8 months and it has already (recently) changed a ton but I'm hopeful the reasons I play won't change so much I have to go looking again.
This made me smile.
I was an EQlifer and even threw sickys so i could play, damn it i lost jobs over EQ at it's peek. Do i look at it through rose coloured glasses? no i still keep going back to EQ now.
Recently myself and a few friends subbed back up and went through some of the newer content, and although the game has changed a lot, the core mechanics stayed the same. You see older games were not just about no choice but building a game that could hold onto people.
Dont forget that 500k subs represented a hige slice of onlines gamers back then.
EQ and it's brothers were more about living in an adventure, your not going to get loot falling of trees and when you did get a drop it was something to show of to your friends.
Newer generation games are more about instant gratification. loot falls of trees, even if there are no trees. you can go afk in a PVP arena and after a few weeks have the top tier reward armour.
I am not saying either system is better or worse, just that they are a world away from each other.