Originally posted by bcbully Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.
Of course they do.
What can a player vs a dick PvP player? Log off? Not play?
What can a player do vs a (or many) dick PvE players? Leave group? Find another node to farm?
Sorry, if you're not noob to a game and yet still are the type to get yourself in such a scenario---no choice but to fight through an asshat or not play----, you're simply picking the wrong game, I really can't see it any other way. In this scenario a player accustomed to PVP would call in help after respawning, a normal player (non noob) who focused on PVP would have help to call and such a situation would be momentary outside of rare circumstances (novice), yet even a noobie would understand to stick to the city until the wolf got sick of wasting his time, or a bigger wolf came along),.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's late to the game, and I haven't read all 15 pages, but this is why I hate PVP in general:
I suck at it. I don't like being reminded of how much I suck at it, so I avoid it. There's no point to me trying -- I've been a gamer for let's see... probably getting close to 40 years (if you count playing the old text-based Star Trek on a teletype "gaming"), and my reflexes are not going to get better. Ever. Even when I was in my teens and 20's, I've always sucked at head-to-head gaming. I guess I have motor skill deficiencies or some shit like that.
Anyone remember those two-person handheld LED "football" and "baseball" games from the late 70's/early 80's? I sucked at that. Pong? Sucked. Tank? Sucked. Pinball, I'm good at.
I'm the guy in battlefield 2 who can get the drop on you, empty a clip at you, and then you kill me with your knife.
I had a pre-release beta test on UO and quit because I couldn't step foot outside a city without getting killed. People lower level than me would kill me.
Now it's my turn to rant at you: I fucking hate this attitude -- like it's somehow incumbent upon *me* to explain why I won't go against you head-to-head. Why I'd rather disconnect from the server than get into a fight with you.
I like my fun my way, and I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. If all I want to say is "I don't like it", and you find that unsatisfying, too f'n bad for you. If I'm going to pay money, I'm going to play my way. If I say I don't want my fun interrupted by some asshole trying to gank me, then that's how it is. It doesn't matter if it takes me 2 seconds or sets me back 2 hours -- I don't need to explain why I don't like it.
Now to be fair, I'm *not* the kind of person who will bitch at you for ganking me (spawn camping is a different thing). If I'm playing in a pvp game or on a pvp server, that's because I chose to do it. I played vanilla Wow on a pvp server, and even got to enjoy the 24/7 fights at Tarren Mill and Xroads -- it was impersonal, and I could earn points no matter how many times I died. I played a total of 4 years in Eve Online, and while I did mostly carebear stuff or NPC farming, I never whined about getting killed. I chose my risk level when I made the account. At least in Eve, compared to UO, I could actually DO THINGS without getting ganked and corpse camped. I still spent most of my time doing what *I* wanted to do.
Bottom line, I do not feel the need or the desire to test my abilities against yours -- whether in real life or in a game. I don't feel better or worse about myself for it, I don't judge my self-worth as less than someone else's because they have faster or more accurate fingers than I do. I derive no pleasure from it, generally, so I don't spend time doing it. That's all you really need to know.
I love pvp I just hate the pvpers who get on rp-pvp servers and csn't rp worth a damn and obviously have joined the server just because they think they can get easy kills because people can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time (rp and pvp)
Get off the rp--pvp server losers if you can't do both. But I get it, a true pvp server requires man juice and most of the types I'm talking about need run their asses to the supermarket for a few crates immediately.
Let me ask you OP why is it that a lot of pvpers can't do more than just pvp? Can someone let me know why pvpers who can't rp themselves through a wet paper bag join a server that is rp-pvp?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I don't hate pvp but, its not one of my most favorite things to do in an mmo
So When ever i play an MMO i always pick a pve world so i don't have to be forced to pvp. all that happens is you get ganked and waste your time etc.
Its not like you pvp the person because you like o i so out skilled the person, have the time your ganking them cause you think its funny
For pvp thats in a battle ground or something like that, yea ill jump in their every now and then play some pvp. But i play MMO's for pve, i like have to get 20 people and progressing to clear content. What do you get from pvp just doesn't compare to that feeling. And if i want to face people in multiplayer can go play cod or something like that to me lol
Originally posted by free2play Nobody hates PvP. People don't like forced PvP. It's a shoddy way to throttle weak PvE content. Having to stop and entertain some jughead when all you logged in to do was chop some trees or farm some hides.
How can it be forced PvP when you bought the game voluntarily?
I personally love PvP. I play MMOs for two main reasons. Friends/Guild and PvP. Even playing the same class, PvP is ALWAYS different every fight, even against the same classes/players.
It's just so interesting and fun.
While I do enjoy PvE, I don't play a game just for that reason.
But I do admit, being a low level and getting griefed by high levels isn't fun. Sure, I expect a high level to kill me when he sees me and move on. But camping a lvl 25 as 55 or whatever end level is, is just silly.
Originally posted by bcbullyWhy, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Well I personally like pvp but I can EASILY (didn't you just make a post on critical thinking and that a good amount of people can't do it?) see why people don't like some pvp'ers.
I'm not talking about "some pvp'ers" I'm talking about in general. I wondered for years. The reasons I gave are the ones I've come up with. Please tell me if there are more lol. I swear I'm trying. A previous poster said something about time. I thought to myself, "Ok." Then I thought back on my 8 years of mmorpg'n and couldn't think of a time where I lost more than a few minutes, and even then, did I really lose them?
So what you want is a generalized reason why a group of individuals dont like pvp in MMORPGs? You wont get one. You will get 1000 different reasons from 1000 different people and some of them may be similar ie, griefers or lost game time dealing with it or not being good at it. Your not going to get one definitive answer to a question which can have a very large group of reasons. I think the real question is, why can't you understand that people are different and have different taste? I wouldn't force you to eat sushi if you told me it was gross and didn't like it. Why force someone to pvp if they don't like it and think its pointless, hard or people involved are mean. Personally I dont have a problem with pvp if its done well. I played Shadowbane for 2 years and had a great time. However I have noticed over the years that many (not all) people who are proponents of pvp are glory hounds who want to run around saying "I am the best! I owned you! or I beat so in so with a group of 3 and I was alone!" Good for them. I have no problem if that is why they play games. BUT don't knock or be discriminatory to people who prefer to not partake in that type of mentality or game play. Everyone plays games to have fun and the definition of fun is different for every person. If everyone liked the same things the world would be an awfully boring place. ImO
Seeing as how the OP already edited his beginning message to include, "OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself." I'm pretty sure he's already decided that that's the reason even though from what I saw in this thread that seemed to be the rare case. I guess he's just ignoring the many other reasons people had.
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
Oh I noticed. I just prefer to go against the grain And in all reality my post points out the flaw in his statement. Can't say I have never been killed in PvP mind you, I have been on both sides of the fence to be honest. But it has nothing to do with my post or opinion at all
Scenario
<div vk_sh"="">
A written outline of a movie, novel, or stage work giving details of the plot and individual scenes.
A postulated sequence or development of events.
This is what I'm speaking of. This is separate from reasons, thus me listing top reasons, then my observation.
I'm not here to decide a reason. I'm here to listen to reasons. Of the scenarios given by people who don't like pvp, the giver is giving from a "being killed" perspective. There are no scenarios in this thread that postulate a sequence where the writer is the winner.
The main cause of resentment seems to bad game designs with no risk of punishment for the griefer. In the scenarios given people are getting camped with no recourse, and the camper has no fear of punishment. Who would want that?
Originally posted by bcbully Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.
Of course they do.
What can a player vs a dick PvP player? Log off? Not play?
What can a player do vs a (or many) dick PvE players? Leave group? Find another node to farm?
Sorry, if you're not noob to a game and yet still are the type to get yourself in such a scenario---no choice but to fight through an asshat or not play----, you're simply picking the wrong game, I really can't see it any other way. In this scenario a player accustomed to PVP would call in help after respawning, a normal player (non noob) who focused on PVP would have help to call and such a situation would be momentary outside of rare circumstances (novice), yet even a noobie would understand to stick to the city until the wolf got sick of wasting his time, or a bigger wolf came along),.
Ironic enough you just explained why the majority dont want open pvp,. I play games for MY entertainment, so sitting around in the city waiting for enough people to pop up and deal with the full raid force of gankers outside the gate so I can do the things I want to do, isnt my idea of fun.
The majority of those so called hardcore open pvpers are ussually the first to run when even a remote challenge pops up. Then again unlike most of these so called hardcore pvpers I DO like a challenge, even though Ill admit Im not a huge fan of instanced pvp , I do enjoy actually having to out play my opposers, instead of winning by numbers or because Im 30-80 lvls higher then the other guy(s).
And no its not about dieing, its about their additude.
I don't actually hate PvP, I hate it being forced on me, I hate the 'Non-Consentual "I can gank you" wither you like it or not.' I don't care if a game has PvP as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't care if people beat the snot out of each other as long as I don't have to deal with it (ie: Arena,"wargrounds" etc)
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
Not a competitive person
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
edit- they red text is not meant to demean. It's an observation, a true observation. If we reach the heart of the problem maybe it can be fixed. I made the observation text smaller and changed it back to white from red, for sake of civility
Why you don't hate it?
Different taste
To each his own.
Luckly where not all to same some like it some don't.
I don't actually hate PvP, I hate it being forced on me, I hate the 'Non-Consentual "I can gank you" wither you like it or not.' I don't care if a game has PvP as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't care if people beat the snot out of each other as long as I don't have to deal with it (ie: Arena,"wargrounds" etc)
But if game have free for all pvp you won't buy it right?
Why i ask you wonder?
Well thats where the main problem is many buy games blindly or knowing its free for all pvp and still buy it and then whine about if they are killed during a pve session or other situations thats seems rather dumb to me.
People who buy games whitout any knowledge or know upfront it have free for all pvp should shut there mouths be quiet or leave they dont have right all try change game or complain about it period.
Dont buy blindly games first infestigate if its free for all if its for you or not majority already know its not there cup tea but they still buy game and start playing(Darkfall had plenty of those ID....) over and over again people complain about games they dont buy and play or bought a game while they knew it was free for all i say thats rather dumb and they should be quiet and play games that are safe.
I played AC1-Darktide in 1999 we had pkers/gankers where in 2013 we still have pkers/gankers its part of free for all pvp games GET USE TO IT or dont play plenty alternatives to choose from.
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
Not a competitive person
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
edit- they red text is not meant to demean. It's an observation, a true observation. If we reach the heart of the problem maybe it can be fixed. I made the observation text smaller and changed it back to white from red, for sake of civility
for me PVP is t he antipinnacle of of online gaming. I don't enjoy fighting other people whose stats are roughly the same as mine, whose health bars are roughly the same as mine. When I log into an online game, I want to take on "Impossible" Odds, IE giant dragons, Eldrich abominations, etc. I have no interest in fighting other people, I just don't think its any fun in an mmoRPG, it doesn't help me develop my character, or push along a storyline i care about 90% of the time. the reason I want there to be no pvp at all in a game is it takes development time away from the PvE i care bout. maybe thats selfish, but its my entertainment and my money, so I tend to be self-centered about it.
If a MMO is just solely a PVP one then i don't have a problem with it but i hate PVP mostly because the balances and cycles of nerfs also affects the PVE side.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Just taking this snippet.
This is never the case. MMO pvp is pure math. The one with the better numbers wins. It's rare for someone in crappy gear to beat someone in good gear, and a lot of that "skill" boils down to "who reads forums and finds the best builds exploiting currently broken mechanics, and who flails with something self created that is less efficient"
It's not a test of skill, it's a test of short-term capability (Builds) and Long term investment (Gear), which often (no offense to anyone here), favors people with no lives who can pvp 6-8 hours a day to grind out gear.
As for WHY I don't like pvp, mainly pvp'rs are kind of.. self-righteous and. in many cases (Again no offense, it's a portion of thep opulation, plenty of pvp'rs do not exemplify this) asshats.
Scenario (my first memory of pvp, I know plenty of people who do this in open world pvp servers on current games):
My 27 warlock back in vanilla wow, in the Highlands, 60 rogue comes along, one shots me, proceeds to spawn camp my corpse, and the zone. I can no longer quest there, I had no interest in pvping, nor did I stand any chancei n ehll (a level 27 player is at 5% chance to hit a level 60 player, by game mechanics), no guild I could call in -- I was forced to go to another character until he got bored.
He was probably sitting there going MAN LOOK AT THIS SCRUB TRY TO QUEST, LOLOLOL. It ruined the hour I had to play between homework and my part-time job at the time.
I have friends who are the same, I get stuck on pvp servers all the time because it's all they play, and I get just as annoyed every time some guy tries to gank us and vent lights up MAN LOOK AT THIS SCRUB TRY AND KILL US, WHAT'S HE THINK HE'S DOING LOL.
A large portion (Again, not all! just a portion!) of the pvp population tends to be childish adrenaline junkies who get off on making other peoples days worse for whatever reason, they also seem to think THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND PVP. *shrug* that's why I don't like pvp, the community.
Honestly? I enjoy battlegrounds, and hell even open world pvp when both players are the same level, it's just.. people ruin it.
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
Not a competitive person
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
edit- they red text is not meant to demean. It's an observation, a true observation. If we reach the heart of the problem maybe it can be fixed. I made the observation text smaller and changed it back to white from red, for sake of civility
Why you don't hate it?
Different taste
To each his own.
Luckly where not all to same some like it some don't.
Thats a fact of life.
There doesnt even need to be a reason why some don't like or enjoy PVP, its just like why some people prefer strawberries to raspberries, you don't need a reason, you either enjoy it, or you don't and no amount of reasoning can change this.
Its probably for just this reason why games that are focused on PVP are niche games, or why for games that have different classes of servers PVE/PVP/RP etc, that the smallest populations overall is on the PVP servers. The smallest community imo is probably the RP one, but they do seem to be very vocal about it, usually because there are too many regular PVE players on their servers.
Let me preface this by saying I don't mind PvP...and usually engage in it when its available. But its easy to see why, even from my perspective, people do not like it. First and foremost, games are a release. They are a way to kind of escape the crappy aspects of the real world and have fun. Now competitive games ARE fun. But not when you're just losing left and right. There is no middle ground, really. Everyone can't be a winner, and that means that half the people playing (in a team based PvP) are losers. In straight up gank fest FFA...that percentage is way higher. Normally, FFA games pander to the top 10%. Those with the best gear, most time invested, and best knowledge of the surroundings. In full loot games...its even worse.
Even in the best of cases, half of your players are losers. They took the time to wait and play, many of them having little time to spare in a day because of work, spouses, kids, being an adult stuff. For that, they are rewarded with being someone ELSE'S good time. Its basically like waiting in a line for someone to beat you up and take your lunch money. Now for younger players, or those with more free time, this isn't a big deal. They can jump back into the fray more often and the law of averages is going to work out in their favor. Their time will yield net positive results.
For everyone else, you just paid YOUR money so that the people I mentioned above can enjoy their game.
Compound that issue with the fact that said person could have had a bad day at work, or a fight with a friend, or any number of things that put them in a foul mood to begin with. Getting roflstomped in a game isn't gonna improve that, and they are likely to walk away from it wishing they had never stepped in to begin with. Co-op stuff is better for them because its a way to get together with people and feel like you matter and feel successful. PvE content is always developed with pretty clear victory conditions. Its not as random or unexpected as PvP, so its easier and more enjoyable to learn.
The bottom line is that people turn to games in an effort to IMPROVE their mood. More often than not, that is. Competitive games work against that, mostly. Your average person wants whatever they engage in to make them feel more valuable and successful and PvE does this better.
Originally posted by Skuall i love pvp , however i despise PVP players
I love PVP too. In FPS games where everyone is on equal footing and it´s truly about player skill and luck.
I have come to hate PVP in MMO´s for two reasons.
1. The utter low lives of the internet who think it´s funny to endlessly grief other players who are many levels lower than them, all for their sick way of entertainment.
It´s these low lives that have litterly destroyed PVP in MMO´s and why you see either servers with seperate rulesets, PVP restricted to sertain zones or instances... or developers abandoning PVP altogether.
2. The endless whining about balance in PVP, resulting in bland boring and flat class design, with no real uniqueness and diversity among various classes.
I'm competitive and MMO PvP is not competitive. I still PvP at times in an MMO because it can be competitive and when it is it's fun. It seems like most of the time the playing field is slanted to a foregone conclusion by numbers, gear, level, choice of profession, hacks, cheats,... I don't need an absolute fair fight but there has to be some prospect of winning.
Originally posted by free2play Nobody hates PvP. People don't like forced PvP. It's a shoddy way to throttle weak PvE content. Having to stop and entertain some jughead when all you logged in to do was chop some trees or farm some hides.
Why not beat the guy (or lose) and go about your business. You win some you lose some. YOu can even run, I'm sure there is another node right around the corner. Is it that big of a deal?
It trivializes death - this is why I dislike current PvP implementations.
the whole win or lose go about your business is why it is so pointless, it is a harassment system in many situations.
I'd love to see a MMORPG that treats death as something highly undesirable, and treats another player killing an innocent player (outside warfare) as murder in RL.
You kill an innocent, you should be subject to permanent death (character deletion), not spending 5 hours in prison or other slap on the wrist systems in AoW and AA.
Players don't mind PvP, players hate asshatery that usually comes with PvP games, because of loopholes that allow griefing, corpse camping, ganking and other cheap tactics exploited in PvP games.
That's a bit over the top really. 5 hours (in game time, not offline) in a cell is pretty rough. It means you have to log in (devote computer resources on PC, or the entire system if used in a console title) and just sit. You can't even play OTHER games, really. Unless you have a pretty boss computer, the punishment for killing a player was losing your gaming rig for 5 hours. In other words, they just paid the devs to ground them to their rooms. I'd say thats fair. If you wanna be a cut throat monster, you gotta play careful, thoughtful, and aware because there is a great risk. Not just run around killing the hell out of everyone. You still can do that, of course. Even better if the game spawned its own NPC bounty hunters to chase them down. Not just guards in a town, hunters that will go anywhere on the map to find them. Including instances, if any.
Also depends on the game and theme. A wastelands style game without a society shouldn't do that. But any game with a governing NPC force of any kind should. You can bet if I go out a stab a guy I will be hunted to the ends of the earth. Society SHOULD respond in that way. Games without NPC forces, but that have player created cities and such, should also have the ability for the player city to field NPC hunters for this. Would actually make for an interesting system.
I like PVP in games that are designed for PVP, i don't want the best MMO IP turned into a Darkfall In Norrath PVP fest. EQ has nearly always had PVP and so it should but it should not come before PVE or even get the same attention.
The PVPers should be happy with there own PVP servers but nope they want it all.
What the PVPers are seeing with EQN is that no matter how many polls they run the outcome is the same, EQ is made up of mainly PVE's and Smed & Co are fully aware of that.
What i don't understand is they have ArcheAge coming and most lightly around the same time, both groups should be happy as Larry.
Two hybrid mmo's that offer both groups what they want, i know i'll be playing both.
Comments
Sorry, if you're not noob to a game and yet still are the type to get yourself in such a scenario---no choice but to fight through an asshat or not play----, you're simply picking the wrong game, I really can't see it any other way. In this scenario a player accustomed to PVP would call in help after respawning, a normal player (non noob) who focused on PVP would have help to call and such a situation would be momentary outside of rare circumstances (novice), yet even a noobie would understand to stick to the city until the wolf got sick of wasting his time, or a bigger wolf came along),.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's late to the game, and I haven't read all 15 pages, but this is why I hate PVP in general:
I suck at it. I don't like being reminded of how much I suck at it, so I avoid it. There's no point to me trying -- I've been a gamer for let's see... probably getting close to 40 years (if you count playing the old text-based Star Trek on a teletype "gaming"), and my reflexes are not going to get better. Ever. Even when I was in my teens and 20's, I've always sucked at head-to-head gaming. I guess I have motor skill deficiencies or some shit like that.
Anyone remember those two-person handheld LED "football" and "baseball" games from the late 70's/early 80's? I sucked at that. Pong? Sucked. Tank? Sucked. Pinball, I'm good at.
I'm the guy in battlefield 2 who can get the drop on you, empty a clip at you, and then you kill me with your knife.
I had a pre-release beta test on UO and quit because I couldn't step foot outside a city without getting killed. People lower level than me would kill me.
Now it's my turn to rant at you: I fucking hate this attitude -- like it's somehow incumbent upon *me* to explain why I won't go against you head-to-head. Why I'd rather disconnect from the server than get into a fight with you.
I like my fun my way, and I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. If all I want to say is "I don't like it", and you find that unsatisfying, too f'n bad for you. If I'm going to pay money, I'm going to play my way. If I say I don't want my fun interrupted by some asshole trying to gank me, then that's how it is. It doesn't matter if it takes me 2 seconds or sets me back 2 hours -- I don't need to explain why I don't like it.
Now to be fair, I'm *not* the kind of person who will bitch at you for ganking me (spawn camping is a different thing). If I'm playing in a pvp game or on a pvp server, that's because I chose to do it. I played vanilla Wow on a pvp server, and even got to enjoy the 24/7 fights at Tarren Mill and Xroads -- it was impersonal, and I could earn points no matter how many times I died. I played a total of 4 years in Eve Online, and while I did mostly carebear stuff or NPC farming, I never whined about getting killed. I chose my risk level when I made the account. At least in Eve, compared to UO, I could actually DO THINGS without getting ganked and corpse camped. I still spent most of my time doing what *I* wanted to do.
Bottom line, I do not feel the need or the desire to test my abilities against yours -- whether in real life or in a game. I don't feel better or worse about myself for it, I don't judge my self-worth as less than someone else's because they have faster or more accurate fingers than I do. I derive no pleasure from it, generally, so I don't spend time doing it. That's all you really need to know.
I love pvp I just hate the pvpers who get on rp-pvp servers and csn't rp worth a damn and obviously have joined the server just because they think they can get easy kills because people can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time (rp and pvp)
Get off the rp--pvp server losers if you can't do both. But I get it, a true pvp server requires man juice and most of the types I'm talking about need run their asses to the supermarket for a few crates immediately.
Let me ask you OP why is it that a lot of pvpers can't do more than just pvp? Can someone let me know why pvpers who can't rp themselves through a wet paper bag join a server that is rp-pvp?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I don't hate pvp but, its not one of my most favorite things to do in an mmo
So When ever i play an MMO i always pick a pve world so i don't have to be forced to pvp. all that happens is you get ganked and waste your time etc.
Its not like you pvp the person because you like o i so out skilled the person, have the time your ganking them cause you think its funny
For pvp thats in a battle ground or something like that, yea ill jump in their every now and then play some pvp. But i play MMO's for pve, i like have to get 20 people and progressing to clear content. What do you get from pvp just doesn't compare to that feeling. And if i want to face people in multiplayer can go play cod or something like that to me lol
How can it be forced PvP when you bought the game voluntarily?
I personally love PvP. I play MMOs for two main reasons. Friends/Guild and PvP. Even playing the same class, PvP is ALWAYS different every fight, even against the same classes/players.
It's just so interesting and fun.
While I do enjoy PvE, I don't play a game just for that reason.
But I do admit, being a low level and getting griefed by high levels isn't fun. Sure, I expect a high level to kill me when he sees me and move on. But camping a lvl 25 as 55 or whatever end level is, is just silly.
Scenario
<div vk_sh"="">This is what I'm speaking of. This is separate from reasons, thus me listing top reasons, then my observation.
I'm not here to decide a reason. I'm here to listen to reasons. Of the scenarios given by people who don't like pvp, the giver is giving from a "being killed" perspective. There are no scenarios in this thread that postulate a sequence where the writer is the winner.
The main cause of resentment seems to bad game designs with no risk of punishment for the griefer. In the scenarios given people are getting camped with no recourse, and the camper has no fear of punishment. Who would want that?
Ironic enough you just explained why the majority dont want open pvp,. I play games for MY entertainment, so sitting around in the city waiting for enough people to pop up and deal with the full raid force of gankers outside the gate so I can do the things I want to do, isnt my idea of fun.
The majority of those so called hardcore open pvpers are ussually the first to run when even a remote challenge pops up. Then again unlike most of these so called hardcore pvpers I DO like a challenge, even though Ill admit Im not a huge fan of instanced pvp , I do enjoy actually having to out play my opposers, instead of winning by numbers or because Im 30-80 lvls higher then the other guy(s).
And no its not about dieing, its about their additude.
I don't actually hate PvP, I hate it being forced on me, I hate the 'Non-Consentual "I can gank you" wither you like it or not.' I don't care if a game has PvP as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't care if people beat the snot out of each other as long as I don't have to deal with it (ie: Arena,"wargrounds" etc)
What can a player vs a dick PvP player? Log off? Not play?
What can a player do vs a (or many) dick PvE players? Leave group? Find another node to farm?
^this x infinity +1Why you don't hate it?
Different taste
To each his own.
Luckly where not all to same some like it some don't.
Thats a fact of life.
But if game have free for all pvp you won't buy it right?
Why i ask you wonder?
Well thats where the main problem is many buy games blindly or knowing its free for all pvp and still buy it and then whine about if they are killed during a pve session or other situations thats seems rather dumb to me.
People who buy games whitout any knowledge or know upfront it have free for all pvp should shut there mouths be quiet or leave they dont have right all try change game or complain about it period.
Dont buy blindly games first infestigate if its free for all if its for you or not majority already know its not there cup tea but they still buy game and start playing(Darkfall had plenty of those ID....) over and over again people complain about games they dont buy and play or bought a game while they knew it was free for all i say thats rather dumb and they should be quiet and play games that are safe.
I played AC1-Darktide in 1999 we had pkers/gankers where in 2013 we still have pkers/gankers its part of free for all pvp games GET USE TO IT or dont play plenty alternatives to choose from.
End of discussion.
for me PVP is t he antipinnacle of of online gaming. I don't enjoy fighting other people whose stats are roughly the same as mine, whose health bars are roughly the same as mine. When I log into an online game, I want to take on "Impossible" Odds, IE giant dragons, Eldrich abominations, etc. I have no interest in fighting other people, I just don't think its any fun in an mmoRPG, it doesn't help me develop my character, or push along a storyline i care about 90% of the time. the reason I want there to be no pvp at all in a game is it takes development time away from the PvE i care bout. maybe thats selfish, but its my entertainment and my money, so I tend to be self-centered about it.
I play MMOs for the Forum PVP
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Just taking this snippet.
This is never the case. MMO pvp is pure math. The one with the better numbers wins. It's rare for someone in crappy gear to beat someone in good gear, and a lot of that "skill" boils down to "who reads forums and finds the best builds exploiting currently broken mechanics, and who flails with something self created that is less efficient"
It's not a test of skill, it's a test of short-term capability (Builds) and Long term investment (Gear), which often (no offense to anyone here), favors people with no lives who can pvp 6-8 hours a day to grind out gear.
As for WHY I don't like pvp, mainly pvp'rs are kind of.. self-righteous and. in many cases (Again no offense, it's a portion of thep opulation, plenty of pvp'rs do not exemplify this) asshats.
Scenario (my first memory of pvp, I know plenty of people who do this in open world pvp servers on current games):
My 27 warlock back in vanilla wow, in the Highlands, 60 rogue comes along, one shots me, proceeds to spawn camp my corpse, and the zone. I can no longer quest there, I had no interest in pvping, nor did I stand any chancei n ehll (a level 27 player is at 5% chance to hit a level 60 player, by game mechanics), no guild I could call in -- I was forced to go to another character until he got bored.
He was probably sitting there going MAN LOOK AT THIS SCRUB TRY TO QUEST, LOLOLOL. It ruined the hour I had to play between homework and my part-time job at the time.
I have friends who are the same, I get stuck on pvp servers all the time because it's all they play, and I get just as annoyed every time some guy tries to gank us and vent lights up MAN LOOK AT THIS SCRUB TRY AND KILL US, WHAT'S HE THINK HE'S DOING LOL.
A large portion (Again, not all! just a portion!) of the pvp population tends to be childish adrenaline junkies who get off on making other peoples days worse for whatever reason, they also seem to think THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND PVP. *shrug* that's why I don't like pvp, the community.
Honestly? I enjoy battlegrounds, and hell even open world pvp when both players are the same level, it's just.. people ruin it.
There doesnt even need to be a reason why some don't like or enjoy PVP, its just like why some people prefer strawberries to raspberries, you don't need a reason, you either enjoy it, or you don't and no amount of reasoning can change this.
Its probably for just this reason why games that are focused on PVP are niche games, or why for games that have different classes of servers PVE/PVP/RP etc, that the smallest populations overall is on the PVP servers. The smallest community imo is probably the RP one, but they do seem to be very vocal about it, usually because there are too many regular PVE players on their servers.
Let me preface this by saying I don't mind PvP...and usually engage in it when its available. But its easy to see why, even from my perspective, people do not like it. First and foremost, games are a release. They are a way to kind of escape the crappy aspects of the real world and have fun. Now competitive games ARE fun. But not when you're just losing left and right. There is no middle ground, really. Everyone can't be a winner, and that means that half the people playing (in a team based PvP) are losers. In straight up gank fest FFA...that percentage is way higher. Normally, FFA games pander to the top 10%. Those with the best gear, most time invested, and best knowledge of the surroundings. In full loot games...its even worse.
Even in the best of cases, half of your players are losers. They took the time to wait and play, many of them having little time to spare in a day because of work, spouses, kids, being an adult stuff. For that, they are rewarded with being someone ELSE'S good time. Its basically like waiting in a line for someone to beat you up and take your lunch money. Now for younger players, or those with more free time, this isn't a big deal. They can jump back into the fray more often and the law of averages is going to work out in their favor. Their time will yield net positive results.
For everyone else, you just paid YOUR money so that the people I mentioned above can enjoy their game.
Compound that issue with the fact that said person could have had a bad day at work, or a fight with a friend, or any number of things that put them in a foul mood to begin with. Getting roflstomped in a game isn't gonna improve that, and they are likely to walk away from it wishing they had never stepped in to begin with. Co-op stuff is better for them because its a way to get together with people and feel like you matter and feel successful. PvE content is always developed with pretty clear victory conditions. Its not as random or unexpected as PvP, so its easier and more enjoyable to learn.
The bottom line is that people turn to games in an effort to IMPROVE their mood. More often than not, that is. Competitive games work against that, mostly. Your average person wants whatever they engage in to make them feel more valuable and successful and PvE does this better.
I love PVP too. In FPS games where everyone is on equal footing and it´s truly about player skill and luck.
I have come to hate PVP in MMO´s for two reasons.
1. The utter low lives of the internet who think it´s funny to endlessly grief other players who are many levels lower than them, all for their sick way of entertainment.
It´s these low lives that have litterly destroyed PVP in MMO´s and why you see either servers with seperate rulesets, PVP restricted to sertain zones or instances... or developers abandoning PVP altogether.
2. The endless whining about balance in PVP, resulting in bland boring and flat class design, with no real uniqueness and diversity among various classes.
I like to be able to right-click asshats, and select "ignore". That approach doesn't work in PvP.
Maybe that's why some people want to force PvP on everyone. They don't want to be ignored anymore.
That's a bit over the top really. 5 hours (in game time, not offline) in a cell is pretty rough. It means you have to log in (devote computer resources on PC, or the entire system if used in a console title) and just sit. You can't even play OTHER games, really. Unless you have a pretty boss computer, the punishment for killing a player was losing your gaming rig for 5 hours. In other words, they just paid the devs to ground them to their rooms. I'd say thats fair. If you wanna be a cut throat monster, you gotta play careful, thoughtful, and aware because there is a great risk. Not just run around killing the hell out of everyone. You still can do that, of course. Even better if the game spawned its own NPC bounty hunters to chase them down. Not just guards in a town, hunters that will go anywhere on the map to find them. Including instances, if any.
Also depends on the game and theme. A wastelands style game without a society shouldn't do that. But any game with a governing NPC force of any kind should. You can bet if I go out a stab a guy I will be hunted to the ends of the earth. Society SHOULD respond in that way. Games without NPC forces, but that have player created cities and such, should also have the ability for the player city to field NPC hunters for this. Would actually make for an interesting system.
I like PVP in games that are designed for PVP, i don't want the best MMO IP turned into a Darkfall In Norrath PVP fest. EQ has nearly always had PVP and so it should but it should not come before PVE or even get the same attention.
The PVPers should be happy with there own PVP servers but nope they want it all.
What the PVPers are seeing with EQN is that no matter how many polls they run the outcome is the same, EQ is made up of mainly PVE's and Smed & Co are fully aware of that.
What i don't understand is they have ArcheAge coming and most lightly around the same time, both groups should be happy as Larry.
Two hybrid mmo's that offer both groups what they want, i know i'll be playing both.