Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore I'm not a fan of the single shard concept, especially if they create multiple instances of the same zone/region to deal with over population.
I prefer virtual worlds that keep everyone in the same "world".
That is not what I'm thinking. When I say "single shard server", I mean a virtual world in a single server named "Norrath" with no instances or overlappings zones (like Tabala Rasa).
Do you mean that you think they are going to get all (hopefully millions of) players playing on the same server with no copies of over populated areas?
If so, I hope they don't even try. Large servers with thousands of players sure, but still multiple servers, please.
Originally posted by SavageHorizon Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
I agree. I think a pure pve server is extremely unlikely. Though it wouldn't bother me if it existed, just so long as pure pvp and flagged pvp servers exist along side it.
Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore I'm not a fan of the single shard concept, especially if they create multiple instances of the same zone/region to deal with over population.
I prefer virtual worlds that keep everyone in the same "world".
That is not what I'm thinking. When I say "single shard server", I mean a virtual world in a single server named "Norrath" with no instances or overlappings zones (like Tabala Rasa).
Do you mean that you think they are going to get all (hopefully millions of) players playing on the same server with no copies of over populated areas? If so, I hope they don't even try. Large servers with thousands of players sure, but still multiple servers, please.
I know it sounds crazy, isn't it? I'm just sayin'. From your point of view, I understand what you mean.
Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I really hope it goes down like the faction and PVP of SWG. You start with no alignment, if you want to PVP you pick a faction and earn some Rep to join. So long as they keep the ability to switch down to a slow process the Non-consensual PVP types should be relatively happy and the folks who want nothing to do with PVP stay that way as well. Lock up faction specific stuff , (recipes and such) behind the barrier limit to be flagged and it gives players more reason to join a faction and risk the PVP.
Really the only folks who would have a problem with this is griefers.
Nope, not a PvP players and I have several problems with that. I have a couple of rules about PvP.
1. I should not have to participate in it
2. It should confer no advantage in the PvE sense to people who do PvP.
To expand on the second:
no open world areas I cannot explore without having to "flag" for PvP,
no faction items, recipes etc that need a PvP faction to buy or acquire that provide an advantage in PvE.
no special "perks" (as in Rift Conquest Perks) that can only be obtained through PvP and carry through to PvE.
No areas would be locked out to PVE people who maintained no faction. And only faction specific recipes and gear would be behind that must join the faction barrier.
Faction specifc areas would be locked off to the opposing faction by city guards but otherwise no limitation.
In SWG a un-affiliated crafter couldn't craft Stormtrooper armor in my example and an un-affiliated adventurer could not wear Stormtrooper armor. All crafters could craft Composite armor and all players could wear it. The post CU stats for Assault Trooper armor and Composite were identical but they had different Skins.
So for the EQN Example Lucanic Knights armor wouldn't be wearable or craftable unless you were affiliated with the Freeport faction. Every crafter would be able to make Shiny plate Armor and they would be identical in stats to the Lucanic Knights armor just with a different skin.
This gives the factions no advantage. It just gives a different skin for the armor.
As long as you maintain no alignment you can travel where you please and just be an ordinary citizen because you are not part of the conflict. Once you join a faction you can supply your faction with gear and fight the good fight but you are KoS to the opposing faction.
Originally posted by AticusWelles Originally posted by xxxxxx1 Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore I'm not a fan of the single shard concept, especially if they create multiple instances of the same zone/region to deal with over population.
I prefer virtual worlds that keep everyone in the same "world".
That is not what I'm thinking. When I say "single shard server", I mean a virtual world in a single server named "Norrath" with no instances or overlappings zones (like Tabala Rasa).
Do you mean that you think they are going to get all (hopefully millions of) players playing on the same server with no copies of over populated areas? If so, I hope they don't even try. Large servers with thousands of players sure, but still multiple servers, please.
I know it sounds crazy, isn't it? I'm just sayin'. From your point of view, I understand what you mean.
It doesn't sound crazy, just frustrating and lacking in options for more than one playstyle.
Copy and Paste the original EQ PVP server rulesets....where all three had coin+one item loot. You had racial teams and Rallos Zek was free for all PVP. Add in a Diety based servers, Goods + Neutrals + Evils as well.
Key thing is to have item loot, at least one piece of gear....otherwise you lose a lot of the fun factor and get random gankers with no real penalty.
Ooen world PVP too, no safe zones.
If they want to add pure PVE servers, go ahead. EQ was always more fun and had way more drama on the PVP servers where your character actually had something to lose if they died to another player.
Originally posted by Dullahan Originally posted by SavageHorizon Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
The most popular MMORPG in history didn't have a single pure pve server...that didnt stop it from becoming the most popular MMORPG in history.
Having options to pvp on pve servers wouldn't/isn't going to hurt EQNs chances for success.
Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
The most popular MMORPG in history didn't have a single pure pve server...that didnt stop it from becoming the most popular MMORPG in history. Having options to pvp on pve servers wouldn't/isn't going to hurt EQNs chances for success.
There is difference between option and having choice and subjecting people to PVP against their will. You must be crazy..to think that will ever happen in EQ2 on PVE server.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by AticusWelles Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by Dullahan Originally posted by SavageHorizon Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
The most popular MMORPG in history didn't have a single pure pve server...that didnt stop it from becoming the most popular MMORPG in history. Having options to pvp on pve servers wouldn't/isn't going to hurt EQNs chances for success.
There is difference between option and having choice and subjecting people to PVP against their will. You must be crazy..to think that will ever happen in EQ2 on PVE server.
Reread what he said. "Even if the PVE server is a flagging system".
Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
Single server is the best ever. That is the one (and only one) thing Champions Online got right. You need people to get things going. And single server means people...
Originally posted by nennafir Single server is the best ever. That is the one (and only one) thing Champions Online got right. You need people to get things going. And single server means people...
With a AAA free to play sandbox mmorpg, you're talking about a server that would be slammed with hundreds of thousands of concurrent players. There will easily be more than enough people to fill a few servers with rule sets that accommodate each.
I would guess at a minimum there will be 5 pve/pvp-lite servers and then 1 or 2 pvp servers. I agree though, keep the servers super full and never split or open new servers until its absolutely necessary. I want to feel like the world is thriving.
If the game is big enough with dozens of starting areas that are numerous hours of in game walking to reach each other, I could see it being a single shard. How big is biggest sandbox MMO with what Smedley said? What's the biggest now? EVE?
EQ1 which is still known to this date for PVE content... what are you trying to tell me here?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I really hope it goes down like the faction and PVP of SWG. You start with no alignment, if you want to PVP you pick a faction and earn some Rep to join. So long as they keep the ability to switch down to a slow process the Non-consensual PVP types should be relatively happy and the folks who want nothing to do with PVP stay that way as well. Lock up faction specific stuff , (recipes and such) behind the barrier limit to be flagged and it gives players more reason to join a faction and risk the PVP.
Really the only folks who would have a problem with this is griefers.
Nope, not a PvP players and I have several problems with that. I have a couple of rules about PvP.
1. I should not have to participate in it
2. It should confer no advantage in the PvE sense to people who do PvP.
To expand on the second:
no open world areas I cannot explore without having to "flag" for PvP,
no faction items, recipes etc that need a PvP faction to buy or acquire that provide an advantage in PvE.
no special "perks" (as in Rift Conquest Perks) that can only be obtained through PvP and carry through to PvE.
No areas would be locked out to PVE people who maintained no faction. And only faction specific recipes and gear would be behind that must join the faction barrier.
Faction specifc areas would be locked off to the opposing faction by city guards but otherwise no limitation.
In SWG a un-affiliated crafter couldn't craft Stormtrooper armor in my example and an un-affiliated adventurer could not wear Stormtrooper armor. All crafters could craft Composite armor and all players could wear it. The post CU stats for Assault Trooper armor and Composite were identical but they had different Skins.
So for the EQN Example Lucanic Knights armor wouldn't be wearable or craftable unless you were affiliated with the Freeport faction. Every crafter would be able to make Shiny plate Armor and they would be identical in stats to the Lucanic Knights armor just with a different skin.
This gives the factions no advantage. It just gives a different skin for the armor.
As long as you maintain no alignment you can travel where you please and just be an ordinary citizen because you are not part of the conflict. Once you join a faction you can supply your faction with gear and fight the good fight but you are KoS to the opposing faction.
I think it's almost a given that there will be some form of PvP in Everquest Next. People keep claiming "Because it wasnt in EQ or EQ2" but they consistently say this is going to be unfamiliar to EQ1/EQ2 and that is the exact reason they arent afraid of EQ1 and EQ2 dying -- Because they are going to be considerably different. Unfamiliar is a quoted word Dave Georgeson used to compare EQN to EQ1 and EQ2.
I see no problem with a crafting material off a mob or the environment being in a contested PvP zone. To think this will play exactly like EQ1/EQ2 would be incredibly naive. SOE's future is dependant on EQN's success Smedley has said. Like it or not, they are targeting the whole MMORPG genre, not the EQ1/EQ2 crowd because they know a lot of them are sticking with those games and they want that. They want to define the MMORPG genre. They want to have the boom EQ1 had. How many people were into EQ before EQ1 was out? Only the people making that game.. They are trying to re-create that boom, that impact they had on the gaming world but with Everquest Next, and that entails being considerably different than EQ1/EQ2/other MMORPGs.
I embrace a new age of MMORPG, I dont want the best features of EQ1/EQ2 slammed into an HD remake, and they have said that isnt what theyre doing so I am glad. I dont want to play EQ1 again even if it was new zones, new everything, that game is flawed in its mechanics and execution in 2013. I want the new age of MMORPGs. I want the new big dog in the MMORPG market. And hopefully Everquest Next can do that
EQ1 which is still known to this date for PVE content... what are you trying to tell me here?
You assumed I was new to EQ, and then you further assumed that anyone who thinks EQ Next will have more pvp emphasis must not be familiar with Everquest.
You're wrong on both accounts.
I played EQ for PvP and PvE. If it wasn't for PvP, I'd have never continued playing EQ after the massive drama and cockblocking that occurred with the release of raid content. After the first time 3 guilds started showing up at the fear portal on Tarew Marr, and the drama that ensued, I was forever devoted to rallos zek and the pvp that allowed players to resolve conflicts themselves. It worked perfectly while the system on the blue servers was a mess. Their solution was GM intervention, opening new servers and eventually character transfers, while we employed order, diplomacy and war to determine the outcome.
Though Everquest was intentionally marketed as a PvE game in the wake of UO, it worked perfectly as a PvP centric MMO and to this day remains my favorite PvP mmo of all time.
If SOE released another Everquest today that had a fresh coat of paint, updated combat mechanics and revamped content along with PvP in a sandbox world, it would be a raging success. Unlike all the other pvp mmos, EQ created meaningful player progression through incredible pve, and allowed that progression to be completely contested. Thats what makes a good PvP game, and while I don't think that EQ Next will be a revamped EQ1, I believe SOE has learned this and will capture some of those elements that have been long missing from a sandbox pvp world.
EQ1 which is still known to this date for PVE content... what are you trying to tell me here?
You assumed I was new to EQ, and then you further assumed that anyone who thinks EQ Next will have more pvp emphasis must not be familiar with Everquest.
You're wrong on both accounts.
I played EQ for PvP and PvE. If it wasn't for PvP, I'd have never continued playing EQ after the massive drama and cockblocking that occurred with the release of raid content. After the first time 3 guilds started showing up at the fear portal on Tarew Marr, and the drama that ensued, I was forever devoted to rallos zek and the pvp that allowed players to resolve conflicts themselves. It worked perfectly while the system on the blue servers was a mess. Their solution was GM intervention, opening new servers and eventually character transfers, while we employed order, diplomacy and war to determine the outcome.
Though Everquest was intentionally marketed as a PvE game in the wake of UO, it worked perfectly as a PvP centric MMO and to this day remains my favorite PvP mmo of all time.
If SOE released another Everquest today that had a fresh coat of paint, updated combat mechanics and revamped content along with PvP in a sandbox world, it would be a raging success. Unlike all the other pvp mmos, EQ created meaningful player progression through incredible pve, and allowed that progression to be completely contested. Thats what makes a good PvP game, and while I don't think that EQ Next will be a revamped EQ1, I believe SOE has learned this and will capture some of those elements that have been long missing from a sandbox pvp world.
Deal with it.
I don't need to assume anything when a person who claims to know EQ1 and EQ2 so well doesn't even understand the fundamental strengths of the game. EQ1 and EQ2 are both PVE games always have been and that is why i am 100% sure that PVP will never be forced on those who love to PVE.
Your familarity or being there at first day of release of EQ means nothing if you have completely failed to understand that it was PVE which made EQ franchise what it is today. Every themeaprk MMO to this date has PVP in it and it has always been an after thought and patch work to keep small pockets of player happy. But compared to how many enjoy EQ series just for PVE in my opinion PVP players are just minority. And state of PVP servers in both EQ and EQ2 is proof of that.
So it is not me who need to deal with anything because i know that all of a sudden SOE won't ignore their loyal fans of last 10 years who have supported EQ and made it the success that it is today. And yes you guessed it right...i am talking about PVE players.
I am pretty sure there will be separate PVE and PVP servers and if you are expecting anything more...get ready for disappointment.
Chances of EQN turning into single shard open PVP game as are as bright as EVE ONLINE turning into a PVE game. Keep dreaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Let's take a look at how SOE can increase their revenue the most.
If you have accounts that are only active with an EQ1 sub, and they want to play EQN, there are 2 scenarios. Either the current EQ1 subs stop subbing to EQ1 to play EQN, or they pick up the SOE All Access for $5 more a month. The net amount that SOE gets from these 2 scenarios is +$5 a month.
If they try and get new and different players, then each new account is an added $14.99 a month.
Which one looks more appetizing from a business standpoint?
EQ1 and EQ2 players that want a revamped version of those current games might be disappointed. It is better business to go after the PvP crowd and grab money from players that typically aren't already playing EQ1 & EQ2. The only thing SOE loses from going after the PvP crowd is if the current EQ1 and EQ2 players leave those games for good, because EQN was not what they expected; that in my opinion is highly unlikely since most disgruntled players with EQN will just return to EQ1 and EQ2.
I would love to see a single "server" world, like in EvE. However I don't know how the technology would work in EQN. In EvE they have each system or a group of systems on several servers. If a large battle is planned, CCP (creators of EvE) ask the Corps/Alliances to let CCP know so they can reinforce the system/s in question. This works because each system is separated by a jump gate (i.e. zone in/out)
More realistic are 4 or 5 servers that aim for hosting 100k players on each server, totaling 500k players. EvE has 500k subs but only a peak of 65-75k subs on at any one time (and this is just within the last year), I can remember when peak subs was 40k. That would be a peak of 10-20k per server for EQN, which I think is very realistic.
I don't just want PvP, there has to have a meaning; that meaning for me is what I term asset destruction. Asset destruction was the main theme in Shadowbane, where guilds fought each other over cities. EvE has asset destruction in the form of POS's and System Stations. Since Smedley plays EvE, we may see asset destruction in EQN. If (and that's a big IF) we see asset destruction in EQN then an open world PvP approach is way more logical than consensual PvP. Again, IF, we see asset destruction then we also have to be ready for PvP to be center stage and PvE to be the downtime fun. I feel TERA failed in their political zones because you really didn't fight over resources. Some of the best fun I have ever had in the game were the Banes (city sieges) in Shadowbane and the daily mine fights for resources.
Let's take a look at how SOE can increase their revenue the most.
If you have accounts that are only active with an EQ1 sub, and they want to play EQN, there are 2 scenarios. Either the current EQ1 subs stop subbing to EQ1 to play EQN, or they pick up the SOE All Access for $5 more a month. The net amount that SOE gets from these 2 scenarios is +$5 a month.
If they try and get new and different players, then each new account is an added $14.99 a month.
Which one looks more appetizing from a business standpoint?
EQ1 and EQ2 players that want a revamped version of those current games might be disappointed. It is better business to go after the PvP crowd and grab money from players that typically aren't already playing EQ1 & EQ2. The only thing SOE loses from going after the PvP crowd is if the current EQ1 and EQ2 players leave those games for good, because EQN was not what they expected; that in my opinion is highly unlikely since most disgruntled players with EQN will just return to EQ1 and EQ2.
I would love to see a single "server" world, like in EvE. However I don't know how the technology would work in EQN. In EvE they have each system or a group of systems on several servers. If a large battle is planned, CCP (creators of EvE) ask the Corps/Alliances to let CCP know so they can reinforce the system/s in question. This works because each system is separated by a jump gate (i.e. zone in/out)
More realistic are 4 or 5 servers that aim for hosting 100k players on each server, totaling 500k players. EvE has 500k subs but only a peak of 65-75k subs on at any one time (and this is just within the last year), I can remember when peak subs was 40k. That would be a peak of 10-20k per server for EQN, which I think is very realistic.
I don't just want PvP, there has to have a meaning; that meaning for me is what I term asset destruction. Asset destruction was the main theme in Shadowbane, where guilds fought each other over cities. EvE has asset destruction in the form of POS's and System Stations. Since Smedley plays EvE, we may see asset destruction in EQN. If (and that's a big IF) we see asset destruction in EQN then an open world PvP approach is way more logical than consensual PvP. Again, IF, we see asset destruction then we also have to be ready for PvP to be center stage and PvE to be the downtime fun. I feel TERA failed in their political zones because you really didn't fight over resources. Some of the best fun I have ever had in the game were the Banes (city sieges) in Shadowbane and the daily mine fights for resources.
I have not come across one MMO recently which went after PVP crowd and made loads of money. EVE is the only exception but then again it is not that harsh since a lot of players never even leave high security space and can insure their ships.
SOE is know to maximise their profits and the only way to do so is to not to ignore the legions of fans who have supported EQ1 and EQ2 over the years. As already stated in one of the twitters in regards with open world PVP.. SOE will avoid bad game design decisions. If they wanted to make a niche game to appease PVP crowd, they would have surely not gone with EQ IP.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Are u smoking crack?
Everquest pvp was/ still is the best there ever was.
So hopefully they will make something that has everything the original eq had.
'The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make some other sorry bastard die for his'
Originally posted by Gravarg If it has any PvP, then it'll be the death of the game, since they alienate the majority of the original EQ feel. EQ was never about PvP...that's what DAoC was for
Are u smoking crack?
Everquest pvp was/ still is the best there ever was.
So hopefully they will make something that has everything the original eq had.
Best? come on now. If it was really the best how come it never surpassed the popularity of DAOC? EQ PVP was ok and not even that popular. Ask majority of players and see how many when talking about EQ even mention PVP. EQ was and will always be know for its PVE content.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
That is not what I'm thinking. When I say "single shard server", I mean a virtual world in a single server named "Norrath" with no instances or overlappings zones (like Tabala Rasa).
Do you mean that you think they are going to get all (hopefully millions of) players playing on the same server with no copies of over populated areas?If so, I hope they don't even try. Large servers with thousands of players sure, but still multiple servers, please.
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
I agree. I think a pure pve server is extremely unlikely. Though it wouldn't bother me if it existed, just so long as pure pvp and flagged pvp servers exist along side it.I know it sounds crazy, isn't it? I'm just sayin'. From your point of view, I understand what you mean.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
No areas would be locked out to PVE people who maintained no faction. And only faction specific recipes and gear would be behind that must join the faction barrier.
Faction specifc areas would be locked off to the opposing faction by city guards but otherwise no limitation.
In SWG a un-affiliated crafter couldn't craft Stormtrooper armor in my example and an un-affiliated adventurer could not wear Stormtrooper armor. All crafters could craft Composite armor and all players could wear it. The post CU stats for Assault Trooper armor and Composite were identical but they had different Skins.
So for the EQN Example Lucanic Knights armor wouldn't be wearable or craftable unless you were affiliated with the Freeport faction. Every crafter would be able to make Shiny plate Armor and they would be identical in stats to the Lucanic Knights armor just with a different skin.
This gives the factions no advantage. It just gives a different skin for the armor.
As long as you maintain no alignment you can travel where you please and just be an ordinary citizen because you are not part of the conflict. Once you join a faction you can supply your faction with gear and fight the good fight but you are KoS to the opposing faction.
That is not what I'm thinking. When I say "single shard server", I mean a virtual world in a single server named "Norrath" with no instances or overlappings zones (like Tabala Rasa).
Do you mean that you think they are going to get all (hopefully millions of) players playing on the same server with no copies of over populated areas? If so, I hope they don't even try. Large servers with thousands of players sure, but still multiple servers, please.I know it sounds crazy, isn't it? I'm just sayin'. From your point of view, I understand what you mean.
It doesn't sound crazy, just frustrating and lacking in options for more than one playstyle.Copy and Paste the original EQ PVP server rulesets....where all three had coin+one item loot. You had racial teams and Rallos Zek was free for all PVP. Add in a Diety based servers, Goods + Neutrals + Evils as well.
Key thing is to have item loot, at least one piece of gear....otherwise you lose a lot of the fun factor and get random gankers with no real penalty.
Ooen world PVP too, no safe zones.
If they want to add pure PVE servers, go ahead. EQ was always more fun and had way more drama on the PVP servers where your character actually had something to lose if they died to another player.
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
The most popular MMORPG in history didn't have a single pure pve server...that didnt stop it from becoming the most popular MMORPG in history.Having options to pvp on pve servers wouldn't/isn't going to hurt EQNs chances for success.
There is difference between option and having choice and subjecting people to PVP against their will. You must be crazy..to think that will ever happen in EQ2 on PVE server.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Don't think you ever played EQ did you. Remember that book you turn in to flag yourself for PVP ? Ya that is actually still around in the game today. The issue was they never cared about PVP it was there but wasn't. Not like games now that make patches just to fix or add pvp content EQ never did that.
Either way PVP is a way to add content that your playerbase can enjoy either during or before or even after they beat the PVE content you need something to do until the next content patch and sorry to say PVP is that something for some people. As long as its not forced PVP most would be fine with it.
Like it or not people PVP will be in EQ Next I prefer PVE raiding dungeons etc but I also would like a change once in awhile and PVP gives that.
Yup, PVP will be in EQN but on PVP servers like of old imo. The PVPers will be happy they have whole servers dedicated to their play style.
People are living in a pipe dream if they think PvP won't play a part on all the servers, regardless of rule set. Just the limited information we have points to this, even if the "PvE" server is a flagging system. Those who want to participate in "building and destroying" will ultimately be exposed to some degree of PvP.
Only people who are living a pipe dream are those who think in a game like EVER QUEST, PVE players will be subjected to PVP against their will. You must be new to EQ series if you think that is what EQ is about. EQ is such a success because of huge fanbase that loves it for PVE and not PVP which was never the main focus nor popular in both EQ games.
The most popular MMORPG in history didn't have a single pure pve server...that didnt stop it from becoming the most popular MMORPG in history. Having options to pvp on pve servers wouldn't/isn't going to hurt EQNs chances for success.There is difference between option and having choice and subjecting people to PVP against their will. You must be crazy..to think that will ever happen in EQ2 on PVE server.
Reread what he said. "Even if the PVE server is a flagging system".I was there on EQ1 launch day. Where were you?
With a AAA free to play sandbox mmorpg, you're talking about a server that would be slammed with hundreds of thousands of concurrent players. There will easily be more than enough people to fill a few servers with rule sets that accommodate each.
I would guess at a minimum there will be 5 pve/pvp-lite servers and then 1 or 2 pvp servers. I agree though, keep the servers super full and never split or open new servers until its absolutely necessary. I want to feel like the world is thriving.
EQ1 which is still known to this date for PVE content... what are you trying to tell me here?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I think it's almost a given that there will be some form of PvP in Everquest Next. People keep claiming "Because it wasnt in EQ or EQ2" but they consistently say this is going to be unfamiliar to EQ1/EQ2 and that is the exact reason they arent afraid of EQ1 and EQ2 dying -- Because they are going to be considerably different. Unfamiliar is a quoted word Dave Georgeson used to compare EQN to EQ1 and EQ2.
I see no problem with a crafting material off a mob or the environment being in a contested PvP zone. To think this will play exactly like EQ1/EQ2 would be incredibly naive. SOE's future is dependant on EQN's success Smedley has said. Like it or not, they are targeting the whole MMORPG genre, not the EQ1/EQ2 crowd because they know a lot of them are sticking with those games and they want that. They want to define the MMORPG genre. They want to have the boom EQ1 had. How many people were into EQ before EQ1 was out? Only the people making that game.. They are trying to re-create that boom, that impact they had on the gaming world but with Everquest Next, and that entails being considerably different than EQ1/EQ2/other MMORPGs.
I embrace a new age of MMORPG, I dont want the best features of EQ1/EQ2 slammed into an HD remake, and they have said that isnt what theyre doing so I am glad. I dont want to play EQ1 again even if it was new zones, new everything, that game is flawed in its mechanics and execution in 2013. I want the new age of MMORPGs. I want the new big dog in the MMORPG market. And hopefully Everquest Next can do that
You assumed I was new to EQ, and then you further assumed that anyone who thinks EQ Next will have more pvp emphasis must not be familiar with Everquest.
You're wrong on both accounts.
I played EQ for PvP and PvE. If it wasn't for PvP, I'd have never continued playing EQ after the massive drama and cockblocking that occurred with the release of raid content. After the first time 3 guilds started showing up at the fear portal on Tarew Marr, and the drama that ensued, I was forever devoted to rallos zek and the pvp that allowed players to resolve conflicts themselves. It worked perfectly while the system on the blue servers was a mess. Their solution was GM intervention, opening new servers and eventually character transfers, while we employed order, diplomacy and war to determine the outcome.
Though Everquest was intentionally marketed as a PvE game in the wake of UO, it worked perfectly as a PvP centric MMO and to this day remains my favorite PvP mmo of all time.
If SOE released another Everquest today that had a fresh coat of paint, updated combat mechanics and revamped content along with PvP in a sandbox world, it would be a raging success. Unlike all the other pvp mmos, EQ created meaningful player progression through incredible pve, and allowed that progression to be completely contested. Thats what makes a good PvP game, and while I don't think that EQ Next will be a revamped EQ1, I believe SOE has learned this and will capture some of those elements that have been long missing from a sandbox pvp world.
Deal with it.
I don't need to assume anything when a person who claims to know EQ1 and EQ2 so well doesn't even understand the fundamental strengths of the game. EQ1 and EQ2 are both PVE games always have been and that is why i am 100% sure that PVP will never be forced on those who love to PVE.
Your familarity or being there at first day of release of EQ means nothing if you have completely failed to understand that it was PVE which made EQ franchise what it is today. Every themeaprk MMO to this date has PVP in it and it has always been an after thought and patch work to keep small pockets of player happy. But compared to how many enjoy EQ series just for PVE in my opinion PVP players are just minority. And state of PVP servers in both EQ and EQ2 is proof of that.
So it is not me who need to deal with anything because i know that all of a sudden SOE won't ignore their loyal fans of last 10 years who have supported EQ and made it the success that it is today. And yes you guessed it right...i am talking about PVE players.
I am pretty sure there will be separate PVE and PVP servers and if you are expecting anything more...get ready for disappointment.
Chances of EQN turning into single shard open PVP game as are as bright as EVE ONLINE turning into a PVE game. Keep dreaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Let's take a look at how SOE can increase their revenue the most.
If you have accounts that are only active with an EQ1 sub, and they want to play EQN, there are 2 scenarios. Either the current EQ1 subs stop subbing to EQ1 to play EQN, or they pick up the SOE All Access for $5 more a month. The net amount that SOE gets from these 2 scenarios is +$5 a month.
If they try and get new and different players, then each new account is an added $14.99 a month.
Which one looks more appetizing from a business standpoint?
EQ1 and EQ2 players that want a revamped version of those current games might be disappointed. It is better business to go after the PvP crowd and grab money from players that typically aren't already playing EQ1 & EQ2. The only thing SOE loses from going after the PvP crowd is if the current EQ1 and EQ2 players leave those games for good, because EQN was not what they expected; that in my opinion is highly unlikely since most disgruntled players with EQN will just return to EQ1 and EQ2.
I would love to see a single "server" world, like in EvE. However I don't know how the technology would work in EQN. In EvE they have each system or a group of systems on several servers. If a large battle is planned, CCP (creators of EvE) ask the Corps/Alliances to let CCP know so they can reinforce the system/s in question. This works because each system is separated by a jump gate (i.e. zone in/out)
More realistic are 4 or 5 servers that aim for hosting 100k players on each server, totaling 500k players. EvE has 500k subs but only a peak of 65-75k subs on at any one time (and this is just within the last year), I can remember when peak subs was 40k. That would be a peak of 10-20k per server for EQN, which I think is very realistic.
I don't just want PvP, there has to have a meaning; that meaning for me is what I term asset destruction. Asset destruction was the main theme in Shadowbane, where guilds fought each other over cities. EvE has asset destruction in the form of POS's and System Stations. Since Smedley plays EvE, we may see asset destruction in EQN. If (and that's a big IF) we see asset destruction in EQN then an open world PvP approach is way more logical than consensual PvP. Again, IF, we see asset destruction then we also have to be ready for PvP to be center stage and PvE to be the downtime fun. I feel TERA failed in their political zones because you really didn't fight over resources. Some of the best fun I have ever had in the game were the Banes (city sieges) in Shadowbane and the daily mine fights for resources.
I have not come across one MMO recently which went after PVP crowd and made loads of money. EVE is the only exception but then again it is not that harsh since a lot of players never even leave high security space and can insure their ships.
SOE is know to maximise their profits and the only way to do so is to not to ignore the legions of fans who have supported EQ1 and EQ2 over the years. As already stated in one of the twitters in regards with open world PVP.. SOE will avoid bad game design decisions. If they wanted to make a niche game to appease PVP crowd, they would have surely not gone with EQ IP.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Are u smoking crack?
Everquest pvp was/ still is the best there ever was.
So hopefully they will make something that has everything the original eq had.
'The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make some other sorry bastard die for his'
Best? come on now. If it was really the best how come it never surpassed the popularity of DAOC? EQ PVP was ok and not even that popular. Ask majority of players and see how many when talking about EQ even mention PVP. EQ was and will always be know for its PVE content."The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney