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EQnext - pvp - Monster play ?
Dalaimoc
Member UncommonPosts: 29
Since SOE is supposed to have something new up their sleeves....and the Monster Play feature has been in before (however not very succesful)
Do you think, that they might bring Monster Play to feature and encourage pvp ?
Could be interesting, if you could level/evolve a monster or supposed npc-char. I know it will be difficult to implement and even more difficult to balance (not a strong side of SOE - come to think of it), but it would open up some interesting possibilities for a sandbox.
[mod note - edited title a bit to make it clearer]
Comments
sounds like a question from you
but I see no hint anywhere
Not orgres and trolls as they are a playable race anyways, I personally think its going to be more faction based if anything
I like the idea of monster play. But it needs to be carefully executed. If you let anyone chose to be mob in a zone, you'll need to worry about how other npc mobs are going to interact with you. Either you treat the player controlled mob as a mini-boss mob, where the npcs don't react. Or you let the npcs react to your mob, but have you weaker.
One other problem I see with this, is people using it to help PL friends. If you can spawn yourself as a level 20 mob in a newbie area and let your friend beat on you without attacking, yourself, you could potentially let them PL really quick. That or dual boxing. But on the other hand, you are that level 20 mob in the noob area still, and you go around ganking all the noobs around you.
That's why I'm saying it would be a mandatory thing to worry about how it's implemented. Though it would be fun to create a reverse train, where players are following you into a densely populated monster area
Oh the fun
In a world where players can be both bad and evil as good and holy there is nor need for monsterplay, monsterplay was added to lotro because in turbines world it was forbidden for players to be evil...
tough the fact that nder certain circumstances players could overtake npc controlls would add much to the dynamics of the game, even more if the players could quicklevel from normal mob to elie to boss to epic to epic boss
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Oh look, another wild speculation thread with a misleading title to make it sounds like there has been leaked information.
Interesting concept, but its been done and it wasn't all that popular in LoTRO either.
it was done in eq as well but never made it out of beta, it was awesome but flawed you couldnt log and save your charactor, you where limited to one zone( ic ould deal witht hat if we could save though)
You copuld not talk to anyone and if they made it so you couldnt see names.. well pling would be alot harder
Monster Play in LOTRO was revolutionary and alot of fun except for some wierd odd reason Turbine didn't capitalize on this ingenius facet of gameplay nor did they expand upon it very much. It could work in EQN if they utilized their dynamic factional system and allowed players to actually have some form of control over NPCs/MOBs aligned with their faction. There is actually a mini BOSS of sorts for both sides so a player to control from time to time, yet even that was dumbed down when I played and often crowdcontrolled and zerged down easily. Imagine if a player controlled a mini BOSS in a dungeon or even a raid BOSS; Players would have to seriously organize and be on the ready and be able to adapt and change midfight and rightly so cuz it would be a real mind operating the BOSS instead of predictible AI. Simply Said PvE is often too predictible and no matter how tough they are supposed to be they are often overcome easily and systematically as players are comprised of many minds and this is simply AI.
Monster Players in LOTRO, were and still are vastly inferior to leveled/geared players to such a degree it isn't as fun as it could be for all involved. Yes they have exploited poorly designed game features and used a Monster Player to help rank up a Player and vice versa as Monster Players can only rank up killing Players. This may have been exploited but it worked in favor of the Monster Player much moreso as they could rank up (so they actually had some skills/abilities) fast which helped Monster Players organize and actually become somewhat of a force if organized well enough in and in good numbers against Players who weren't very organized or so vast in numbers. I wondered if Turbine overlooked this for a while so Monster Players had a chance as early on it was a complete and utter joke and unless you were there you have no idea how badly Monster Players suffered and it showed me what people can endure for days, weeks, months without regard yet still manage to log in and play. Unless you were there you really have no idea whatsoever how bad it was.
Again this part of the game wasn't and isn't implimented very well by Turbine and that is why the game wasn't as popular as it could have been and even today. Also, it didn't help that they didn't have the freedom to design and tweak certain facets of gameplay as they are beholding to the legacy of JRR Tolkien lore and restrained/moderated by the company handling the rights to all of his work. EQN owns their own lore and have free reign on how they want to impliment any part of the game, so they could easily overcome the limitations Turbine had with these features if they decided to allow players alot more control over the MOBs aligned with the faction.
I participated heavily as a Player killing Monster Players and as a Monster Player killing Players and it was simply ingenious and some of the best PvP I have ever experienced, as well as Roleplaying. This is the future of MMORPGs and until a company fully realizes it and impliments it correctly we will continue to burn through PvE content, as no matter how diverse, intricate, obtuse you design it; the human mind overcomes it, easily...as we should.
The reason it wasn't so popular is because of how poorly it was implimented by Turbine and how vastly inferior Monster Players were and they had their hands tied as they couldn't go all out with it as they should have because they were under contract by JRR Tolkiens work and company.
I for one haven't enjoyed PvE in a game since I played Everquest as it is silly, predictible, ridiculous, easily manipulated, and easily overcome...its a joke to me and why I haven't participated in a MMORPG since 2009 and why alot of players resign themselves to PvP as they enjoy real challenges and they want to play with other players.
Seriously?!? Could you elaborate and go into detail as this is the first time I have heard of this before as I signed up for beta but didn't get in because I changed my email alot back then. Imagine if this were true; If they implimented it correctly back then the whole scope and range of playability in MMORPGs would be radically different today.
I did hear the developers and some of the companies employees were allowed to control some MOBs ingame from time to time after launch which proved rather entertaining and exciting for anyone on the receiving end. I believe I experienced this a couple times as there was no way, shape, or form this was AI as I have yet to witness anything close to it in any MMORPG since and that was well over a decade ago...
Yea EQ1 had it on test server I believe. I think you spawned as a random noob level mob in a random area (maybe even server?). It was somwhat entertaining to run around as a rat near Freeport and sneak around for unsuspecting players.
Wow, its too bad they didn't have servers where players could play opt to play certain MOBs considering they were using the same skills, abilities, and spells that players were using yet many MOBs were buffed insanely as was their damage output...to provide for more of a group centric gameplay for players to enjoy
Seems some of the developers really had vision back in the day it seems...too bad it was overlooked
Ahem, WoW was weened off of Everquest, as it was the next evolutionary standard that lasted alot longer then it should have...sorta makes ya ponder wtf was going to MMORPG developers minds and budgets that no MMORPG could compete with WoW for as long as it reigned supreme.
Also Monster Play was entirely a Lord of the Rings Online concept brought to fruition. Arenas and Instances are WoW centric and have their merits and limitations.
Until MMORPG developers come to terms with the fact that players will continue to burn through PvE content and themeparks as is the nature of those environments and truly bring the Sandbox for players in a dynamic factional system where the players actually change and influence and control the world within the game...everything else will be a stepping stone costing the developers more time/energy and money then needs be...
EQ1 had project M briefly introduced in 2001 but it was removed
http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/09/01/project-m-revisited/
I tried being a flying wasp attacking players over 10 years ago
EQ2 fan sites
Thanks for the link...looks like more credit goes to Everquest with Project M for Monster Play
Fascinating, considering how LOTRO was brought up in the article. However, sad that Turbine poorly implimented Monster Play, as they would have been better off simply creating a purely PvE MMORPG with all the Tolkien Lore to satisfy fans and enthusiasts, instead of intentionally causing grief to some of their own playerbase with a poorly designed Monster Play option and dishonoring/defacing the legacy of JRR Tolkien at the same time. Nonetheless it brought forth a hugely disregarded and often overlooked facet of gameplay that has yet to be fully recognized and implimented in a way that would revolutionize MMORPGs.
Possibly its that developers consisting mostly of software engineers and programmer analysts suck as content designers and creative imaginative thinkers and vice versa; are much akin to the arguement that you can have a good doctor, yet a poor surgeon and vice versa. Yet one wonders whom obviously has more clout and more say where and how certain features are implimented...guess we got our answer, as time is obviously the sage, to the seeker of truth.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yup and I have said this for many years yet it fell upon those who simply do not know how to truly listen to anything other then noise their ears desire to hear.
Isn't it interesting how players upon players have commited crimes against nature, invaded lands, killed indigenous creatures, stole, pillaged, looted, etc...and yet they are held in esteem by many and highly regarded, followed, and it goes on and on and on. One begins to wonder what kind of long term effect is derived in participating in such activities games over a long time and where its all headed to.
This is why a dynamic factional system is the only sensible and reasonable answer at this time...it will breathe life into lifelessness and injustice to the insensitive and self righteous. Imagine the roleplaying potential....limitless and something worthwhile is being done in the long term.
There is virtually no way to make monster play reasonable, fun and balanced - so they won't do it. Every time it's been implemented it's failed, the first attempt of course being in Everquest. It's not that I don't think it's cool, it's simply unreasonable to ask it while also demanding other things such as balance and progression. How can you play a giant rat and expect anything long-term to come out of it? That is more of a waste of assets than anything.
Of course, when you say 'monster' I don't think 'humanoid' as they aren't really 'monsters'. That said, if they implement this feature outside of the game - say some kind of arena/battleground specifically designed for monsters, wherein you take control of your captured monsters to pvp.. that would be pretty fun.. but it's a sandbox.. so.. structured pvp = bad.
Is having an active imagination not trendy anymore?
Everquest ended up having a total of 16 playable races comprised of Evil, Neutral, Good Factions
You could go expand upon this so as to include more humanoid types (i.e. Goblins, Gnolls, Aviaks, Brownies, Orcs, Kobolds, Fairies, Nymphs, Pixies, Mermaids, Giants, etc...)
You could expand upon the factions and make it so they are of different alignments or even have each player race start of a particular faction/alignment and their choices, desicions, actions dictate and ulitmately decide their faction so it gives players more control over their character over time
Make it so all playable races co-create/destroy and are in a constant struggle either with, for or against other factions and involve diplomacy, trading, resources, adventuring, exploring, questing, crafting, farming, war, etc...
Imagine how dynamic this could be overall and place everyone in a huge sandbox world where one server ends up being entirely different then another as the game progresses
It would literally blow players minds and it would last years if implimented well enough
Think you need to do some homework.
And AO was I believe the first MMO to make use of instances as part of its base game mechanics back in 2001. It was also the first MMO to have flying mounts (Yalms)
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Your arguing semantics as WoW centric means it was central to WoW mainly and a primary part of gameplay in World of Warcraft. Asheron's Call actually introduced instances when it was released in November of 1999.
I have checked out wurmonline as you have posted it before and you can hang with all the homeboys all ya like trying to tout how its a true sandbox and Everquest Next isn't going to be a true sandbox yet your just in the same bag with the rest of us until the first week of August rolls around.
I've done my fair share of homework playing many MMORPGs since 1997 and not as a casual gamer either...heres lookin at you kid O.o