I for one always starts at hardest settings in solo RPGs if posible some you have to unlock.
But mmo seems not posible for many reason.
If mmo is hardcore then the devs need to be strong ive not yet seen mmo's that stay hardcore they all go dumbdown road becouse of the whiners(Darkfall at launch was very hardcore but to many whined/cry so hard weak devs made the game for pussy,s) and crybabys.
Originally posted by Deddpool Because everything needs to be even for every player.
Why? Why should me wanting to play Ironman Mode effect you? If I wanted to be even... I wouldn't check it. How does my one life affect your game?
It would affect me if we were grouped up doing a dungeon. You die and your char is perma dead, forcing me to recruit a new player. What about raids? A tough mini boss kills a tank and a healer and a couple of DPS, and now the raid is short of 5 or 6 people. How long is it going to take to replace those people? Then you lose a few more at the next mini boss causing another delay. If enough people chose your Ironman mode it could be quite disruptive.
In todays "casual friendly" MMO market, when everyone wants to be able to jump on and get something done, when people who only have an hour or two to play but still want to see raid content, these kinds of delays are going to cause a big problem.
Maybe the answer to that is to eliminate group content - we've already seen a massive trend towards solo content anyway - but then why bother making it an MMO? If you're going to solo everything you may as well make it single player and ramp up the graphics capabilities.
From a techincal stand there's no reason it couldn't be done but from a marketing point of view it's a disaster. Such a game would attract a very small audience of hardcore players and most MMO developers are in this to make money.
In theory, it's not bad, but the amount of coding to properly handle every possible circumstance that two or more players could interact in a way that allowed all the players to not be effected by what the setting other players had chosen would simply not be worth it. Rather than making one big mediocre game that attempted to cater to everyone, those devs could make a far better gaming experience for everyone by creating a separate game/server for each desired level of challenge. Technically, what the OP suggested is very doable, but as soon as you throw the human factor in that comes with having thousands and thousands of players, it simply isn't practical.
Doesn't LotRO have that option in that scenario thing they offer where you can pick the custom fight. I am not very sure of the name now but I recall three of us getting our behinds handed to us when we picked the one for a group. Those were some tough fights even with our companions with us.
Also someone else also mentioned City of Heroes/Villains had from the beginning itself. Of course it was easier with the mission system. I think Anarchy Online too had it when you picked missions. WoW as someone here mentioned with their different levels of dungeons. Several games already offer it plus your own individual ability to tailor make your own game to your liking by having a discipline you follow.
Why doesn't Bill Gates build an elevator to the moon? Why doesn't a snail just evolve legs like a centipede and haul ass?
MMORPG's are not single player games. You cannot have a set of options as you have described and then program for each scenario for each player and then change the dynamic even more should those players party together. Think of the loot tables, experience tables, etc that you would have to program to fit each and every choice.
MMORPG's are for people to share the same experience, to explore and fight side by side. They are not built to suite the needs of each individual's playing ability. That is what they make Halo and Call of Duty for.
I agree that is what mmo's used to be. However, with them becoming more and more like single player games that feature other people on the same server with you, where you can solo a lot if not most of the content, I can almost see a dev trying to do what the op suggested.
I agree that is what mmo's used to be. However, with them becoming more and more like single player games that feature other people on the same server with you, where you can solo a lot if not most of the content, I can almost see a dev trying to do what the op suggested.
Already done. WOW has difficulties in raids. DDO has difficulties options in instanced dungeons.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
MMO is not "meant to be" anything.
In fact, you said it yourself, there are highly instanced MMOs now .. and in fact, that has become the mainstream.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
MMO is not "meant to be" anything.
In fact, you said it yourself, there are highly instanced MMOs now .. and in fact, that has become the mainstream.
I agree and I don't agree....The pseudo mmos that are lobby/instanced to death, it is fine for them, but traditionally mmos are supposed to be more open and massive, not a lobby....So if it is a mmo lobby hybrid, put 100 levels on it, even 1000....If it is something that is not a hybrid/lobby mmo, it isn't a good idea and has no place imo.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
MMO is not "meant to be" anything.
In fact, you said it yourself, there are highly instanced MMOs now .. and in fact, that has become the mainstream.
I don't consider the high instanced MMOs to really be MMOs. In my book they are more Lobby based games then full MMOs. Developers can attach the MMO tag to them to try and get more interest in them but behind the scenes the technology powering them isn't much different then your average Lobby game where the Developers host the Game Servers like Combat Arms and other games like it.
There are a lot of people responding to this thread that have very poor reading comprehension and fail to consider things within context.
There are a lot of people responding to this thread saying, "I don't like this." and fail to give an objective reason why it couldn't work.
There are a lot of people responding to this thread who are making assumptions about me based on the fact that I have created a thread about something they don't like, and providing subjective rhetoric as feedback.
This is why I do not like creating threads. I cannot trust people to handle each subject like an adult, but instead go nuts over superfluous things.
Not one person has given me a legitimate reason why something like this couldn't be done. All I have heard is how much it sucks and that it would be too hard to code. It doesn't suck, and it isn't hard to code. You just don't like it, because... apples.
1. To the person saying I stole the difficulty titles from another game - I didn't steal anything. Originally it was EASY, HARD, and NIGHTMARE mode. I changed it because I thought it would have been a more entertaining read. So, I used an obviously well known list of difficulties. Anyone who is more than 15 years old knows that the difficulty titles were taken from Wolfenstein 3D. Obvious reference is obvious.
2. To the people saying I am out of touch with MMO gamers. I really think I am more in touch than YOU are. People, a lot of people, want a more challenging experience in some way or another. They're too lazy to make their own challenges. I never said one way or another that I think this is a good or bad attitude. Your reaction to me suggests that you have made the assumption that I think it is a good attitude. You are wrong.
I think others have pre-rendered ideas of what they think and MMO should be. And then I think there are people who want something different. Who gets to dictate what the other experiences? You sure don't. This sort of "Difficulty slider" is a way that gives a player the tool they need to play the game they want, without interfering with someone else's game.
3. To those people who say this would screw everyone else up - I have yet to hear a reason that makes sense, how a player selecting one or all of those options, would affect any other player in the game. Some of you have said that it would screw up grouping when someone with Ironman mode suddenly couldn't come back? That's a good point. But why would you group with someone in Ironman mode if you didn't want to? Just group with someone else.
The way I see it is that people who enjoy these aspects would create their own guilds filled with like-minded players. This way they would always have a supply of people to play with.
4, I think the reality is that anyone who would disagree with something like this is just being an elitist douche who wants things done their way and only their way. There is nothing wrong with giving people what they want - and they have spoken pretty loudly. They're tired of "EASY MODE". This solution gives them the option to play differently, without affecting the vanilla balance of the game.
What's the problem?
5. The Best solution I have heard thus far is to have these options set as server rules instead of individual character options. I agree. That would be a better way in which to handle something like that, and I did not think about that at the time. Mainly because I feel like that would be asking for too much.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
MMO is not "meant to be" anything.
In fact, you said it yourself, there are highly instanced MMOs now .. and in fact, that has become the mainstream.
I agree and I don't agree....The pseudo mmos that are lobby/instanced to death, it is fine for them, but traditionally mmos are supposed to be more open and massive, not a lobby....So if it is a mmo lobby hybrid, put 100 levels on it, even 1000....If it is something that is not a hybrid/lobby mmo, it isn't a good idea and has no place imo.
That is just semantics. Many games, like WOW, DDO, NWO ... are classified as MMOs by the industry and they are highly instanced.
If you want to call it some other name .. like hybrid lobby game .. it is fine with me. I really don't care about labels, only about if a particular game is fun.
The point is that for these games where instanced and lobby gameplay is a focus, then a difficulty slider is a good thing .. and it is already implemented in some of these games.
So... We have these MMO's and all I ever hear people talk about is that they don't have feature X or feature Y. The game is too easy. The game is too hard.
Why don't MMO's have a difficulty slider or some kind of thing where you can put a checkmark beside the things you want your game to have? When you make a new character, go down the list:
Can I play, Daddy?: Just play the game. Don't check anything. This is for the kids, carebears, and the casuals.
I wish people stopped using terms as carebears and casuals as it doesn't reflect the players community but pure reflect how other people might look upon them.
Bring 'em on!: Check as many of these as you want at character creation. Maybe you are rewarded with better loot drops or better money earnings depending on how many you check. Maybe you do it just for the challenge. Who knows? These cannot be changed after you have created the character. This is for people who have balls.
1. Corpse Run.
When you die, you have to find your corpse to get your stuff and XP back.
2. XP Loss on Death.
If you die, you lose XP even if you find your corpse.
3. Lootable Corpse
If you enable this, and the person you fight in PvP has it enabled, the winner (and only the winner) gets to loot the other player's corpse. If only one person has it checked, no one has loot rights. If you die in PvE, no one can loot your corpse... or maybe they can?
4. Ironman Mode
Perma-Death. No exceptions... ... Well, maybe you can buy and sell 1-Ups lol. But they are absolutely the most rare thing in the game. People should have to fight for them!
5. Longer XP cycles
You require twice as much XP to level up.... Maybe more!
6. Massive Criticals
You take twice as much damage on Critical Hits.
7. Massive Damage
All White Damage dealt to you is increased.
8. Anti-Social
Your chatbox is completely disabled. You don't want to talk to anyone... but even better... they don't want to talk to you. Have fun with your MMO.
I am Death incarnate!: Check everything available in Hard Mode (Anti-Social is not necessary.) This is for Developers who have God Mode enabled and/or People who were born from the seed of a Spartan and have Dragon Blood coursing through their veins. If ever you manage to legitimately get to Max Level or whatever... you get something so awesome.... you will be the coolest dude in the universe until the next game is released!
Seems to me this sort of thing should be in MMO's, pronto. And really, I don't know how you checking any of this would affect any other player's game.
I wish people stopped using terms as carebears and casuals as it doesn't reflect the players community but pure reflect how other people might look upon them. For me casual means just less time to spend on the game, doesn't make me not wanting a challenge, doesn't make me not wanting to know every little bit about the game and it's mechanics, doesn't mean I don't want to PVP if I want to. Casual as said to me is just less time to play.
Also if the challenge isn't good enough there are many way's to make even a easy on rails game challenging. I simply don't max out my gear stats in a game to easy, why should I wear Purple's or Epic armor and weapons when a game is too easy. Kinda dumb to do so or it's done pure to show off you got that Epic gear (commonly speaking of course)
I am all for options in a MMORPG but I definitly do not need difficulty sliders in a game played with hundreds or thousands of people simultaneously.
Don't blame the game if it's too easy. Perhaps people should LEARN to play what is given and not try to play what they hope for and be more proud when defeating mobs with lesser gear then take the easy route and then complain about the game being to easy. Perhpas that makes some games allot better and/or challenging.
I for one would not like to have a hardcore mode where mobs just had more health. I would want a full AI change for them. This takes a great amount of code to make something like that work in a MMORPG. We might one day see something that enhances the AI of mobs due to difficulty. But with most games that had optional difficulty settings there wasn't really more challenge, just longer hits on the mobs due to them having higher health bars. You do see AI changes in singleplayer game with difficulty settings. I just don't believe we are there yet in MMORPG's.
I do like your idea of lesser XP gain. With most MMO's I have played I often stay away from XP weekends or boosters. I often already outlevel my level based gear so why would I want that even quicker. DING!! use to be a word commonly used in MMORPG and was seen as accomplishment, especially at the higher levels.
In a way I don't care if JOE uses the cashshop to get his stuff. But my best and greatest experiances with MMORPG was with those game that everyone was on equel ground. Meaning everyone was able to aquire that Sword of Power, which didn't mean everyone got that sword but if they wanted they could get it regardless how long it might have taken.
Overall it's a shame that people really need a game to tell them what they can and can not do instead of finding out what is possible or not.
Comments
I for one always starts at hardest settings in solo RPGs if posible some you have to unlock.
But mmo seems not posible for many reason.
If mmo is hardcore then the devs need to be strong ive not yet seen mmo's that stay hardcore they all go dumbdown road becouse of the whiners(Darkfall at launch was very hardcore but to many whined/cry so hard weak devs made the game for pussy,s) and crybabys.
Darkfall
DayZ
AC2
lineage2
ive seen them all going ezmode.
Why? Why should me wanting to play Ironman Mode effect you? If I wanted to be even... I wouldn't check it. How does my one life affect your game?
It would affect me if we were grouped up doing a dungeon. You die and your char is perma dead, forcing me to recruit a new player. What about raids? A tough mini boss kills a tank and a healer and a couple of DPS, and now the raid is short of 5 or 6 people. How long is it going to take to replace those people? Then you lose a few more at the next mini boss causing another delay. If enough people chose your Ironman mode it could be quite disruptive.
In todays "casual friendly" MMO market, when everyone wants to be able to jump on and get something done, when people who only have an hour or two to play but still want to see raid content, these kinds of delays are going to cause a big problem.
Maybe the answer to that is to eliminate group content - we've already seen a massive trend towards solo content anyway - but then why bother making it an MMO? If you're going to solo everything you may as well make it single player and ramp up the graphics capabilities.
From a techincal stand there's no reason it couldn't be done but from a marketing point of view it's a disaster. Such a game would attract a very small audience of hardcore players and most MMO developers are in this to make money.
Doesn't LotRO have that option in that scenario thing they offer where you can pick the custom fight. I am not very sure of the name now but I recall three of us getting our behinds handed to us when we picked the one for a group. Those were some tough fights even with our companions with us.
Also someone else also mentioned City of Heroes/Villains had from the beginning itself. Of course it was easier with the mission system. I think Anarchy Online too had it when you picked missions. WoW as someone here mentioned with their different levels of dungeons. Several games already offer it plus your own individual ability to tailor make your own game to your liking by having a discipline you follow.
It's pretty simple to implement:
-All options provided only have an effect in PVM.
-For every option chosen , you gain a boost in experience and drop rates.
-You choose each option at the start of the game when you create a character and can not change it.
Shows how out of touch the op is with mmorpg's, and anyone who agrees with him.
Go play single player games, they have that mechanic.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I hate the idea.
I dislike dungeons in mmos having difficulty levels, and then people saying 10 dungeons with 3 difficulty levels is '30 dungeons!'.....
Slide all you want in your lobby game, but keep it out of a real mmo.
MMOs are like lobby games now. So yeah, put the slider in MMOs.
First, MMOs do have difficulty sliders.
In DDO, you can choose your dungeon difficulty before you go in.
In WoW, you can choose LFR, normal or hard mode raid.
And yes, it is a great idea. It works very well in these MMOs, and in games like D3 which is close enough to MMOs in play style.
Because these aren't singleplayer games, they're simulated worlds. Want a harder fight? Agro more mobs.
But modern MMos restrict this..
I agree that is what mmo's used to be. However, with them becoming more and more like single player games that feature other people on the same server with you, where you can solo a lot if not most of the content, I can almost see a dev trying to do what the op suggested.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Who says MMOs are simulated worlds? Modern MMOs clearly are not when most of the gameplay are in instances.
Already done. WOW has difficulties in raids. DDO has difficulties options in instanced dungeons.
I would guess having players in the same environment would be very technically challenging and cause unwanted friction between payers.
T be honest all it needs is 'Ironman' 'Hardmode' servers, with different rulesets.
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What is the challenge? Most MMO content is in instances anyway. If 5 guys cannot agree on a difficulty setting, they can find other groups.
It has already been already done that way.
IF you want a game that caters to your play style and difficulty then go play a Single Player game or a highly instanced MMO where each Instance is just you and you can set how hard you want it.
If MMOs were to move the direction of having Difficulty settings for everything it would end up being the death of MMOs. MMOs are MEANT to be played along side others end of story.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
MMO is not "meant to be" anything.
In fact, you said it yourself, there are highly instanced MMOs now .. and in fact, that has become the mainstream.
That is fine, put it in the pseudo-mmos too, but it can stay away from the non lobby mmos, it has no place in them.
I agree and I don't agree....The pseudo mmos that are lobby/instanced to death, it is fine for them, but traditionally mmos are supposed to be more open and massive, not a lobby....So if it is a mmo lobby hybrid, put 100 levels on it, even 1000....If it is something that is not a hybrid/lobby mmo, it isn't a good idea and has no place imo.
I don't consider the high instanced MMOs to really be MMOs. In my book they are more Lobby based games then full MMOs. Developers can attach the MMO tag to them to try and get more interest in them but behind the scenes the technology powering them isn't much different then your average Lobby game where the Developers host the Game Servers like Combat Arms and other games like it.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
There are a lot of people responding to this thread that have very poor reading comprehension and fail to consider things within context.
There are a lot of people responding to this thread saying, "I don't like this." and fail to give an objective reason why it couldn't work.
There are a lot of people responding to this thread who are making assumptions about me based on the fact that I have created a thread about something they don't like, and providing subjective rhetoric as feedback.
This is why I do not like creating threads. I cannot trust people to handle each subject like an adult, but instead go nuts over superfluous things.
Not one person has given me a legitimate reason why something like this couldn't be done. All I have heard is how much it sucks and that it would be too hard to code. It doesn't suck, and it isn't hard to code. You just don't like it, because... apples.
1. To the person saying I stole the difficulty titles from another game - I didn't steal anything. Originally it was EASY, HARD, and NIGHTMARE mode. I changed it because I thought it would have been a more entertaining read. So, I used an obviously well known list of difficulties. Anyone who is more than 15 years old knows that the difficulty titles were taken from Wolfenstein 3D. Obvious reference is obvious.
2. To the people saying I am out of touch with MMO gamers. I really think I am more in touch than YOU are. People, a lot of people, want a more challenging experience in some way or another. They're too lazy to make their own challenges. I never said one way or another that I think this is a good or bad attitude. Your reaction to me suggests that you have made the assumption that I think it is a good attitude. You are wrong.
I think others have pre-rendered ideas of what they think and MMO should be. And then I think there are people who want something different. Who gets to dictate what the other experiences? You sure don't. This sort of "Difficulty slider" is a way that gives a player the tool they need to play the game they want, without interfering with someone else's game.
3. To those people who say this would screw everyone else up - I have yet to hear a reason that makes sense, how a player selecting one or all of those options, would affect any other player in the game. Some of you have said that it would screw up grouping when someone with Ironman mode suddenly couldn't come back? That's a good point. But why would you group with someone in Ironman mode if you didn't want to? Just group with someone else.
The way I see it is that people who enjoy these aspects would create their own guilds filled with like-minded players. This way they would always have a supply of people to play with.
4, I think the reality is that anyone who would disagree with something like this is just being an elitist douche who wants things done their way and only their way. There is nothing wrong with giving people what they want - and they have spoken pretty loudly. They're tired of "EASY MODE". This solution gives them the option to play differently, without affecting the vanilla balance of the game.
What's the problem?
5. The Best solution I have heard thus far is to have these options set as server rules instead of individual character options. I agree. That would be a better way in which to handle something like that, and I did not think about that at the time. Mainly because I feel like that would be asking for too much.
That is just semantics. Many games, like WOW, DDO, NWO ... are classified as MMOs by the industry and they are highly instanced.
If you want to call it some other name .. like hybrid lobby game .. it is fine with me. I really don't care about labels, only about if a particular game is fun.
The point is that for these games where instanced and lobby gameplay is a focus, then a difficulty slider is a good thing .. and it is already implemented in some of these games.
I wish people stopped using terms as carebears and casuals as it doesn't reflect the players community but pure reflect how other people might look upon them. For me casual means just less time to spend on the game, doesn't make me not wanting a challenge, doesn't make me not wanting to know every little bit about the game and it's mechanics, doesn't mean I don't want to PVP if I want to. Casual as said to me is just less time to play.
Also if the challenge isn't good enough there are many way's to make even a easy on rails game challenging. I simply don't max out my gear stats in a game to easy, why should I wear Purple's or Epic armor and weapons when a game is too easy. Kinda dumb to do so or it's done pure to show off you got that Epic gear (commonly speaking of course)
I am all for options in a MMORPG but I definitly do not need difficulty sliders in a game played with hundreds or thousands of people simultaneously.
Don't blame the game if it's too easy. Perhaps people should LEARN to play what is given and not try to play what they hope for and be more proud when defeating mobs with lesser gear then take the easy route and then complain about the game being to easy. Perhpas that makes some games allot better and/or challenging.
I for one would not like to have a hardcore mode where mobs just had more health. I would want a full AI change for them. This takes a great amount of code to make something like that work in a MMORPG. We might one day see something that enhances the AI of mobs due to difficulty. But with most games that had optional difficulty settings there wasn't really more challenge, just longer hits on the mobs due to them having higher health bars. You do see AI changes in singleplayer game with difficulty settings. I just don't believe we are there yet in MMORPG's.
I do like your idea of lesser XP gain. With most MMO's I have played I often stay away from XP weekends or boosters. I often already outlevel my level based gear so why would I want that even quicker. DING!! use to be a word commonly used in MMORPG and was seen as accomplishment, especially at the higher levels.
In a way I don't care if JOE uses the cashshop to get his stuff. But my best and greatest experiances with MMORPG was with those game that everyone was on equel ground. Meaning everyone was able to aquire that Sword of Power, which didn't mean everyone got that sword but if they wanted they could get it regardless how long it might have taken.
Overall it's a shame that people really need a game to tell them what they can and can not do instead of finding out what is possible or not.