Originally posted by Lokberg After reading the thread the only thing i can add is the combo system with fields and finishers, made me take skills like traps and healing spring on my ranger not becouse they did dps but helped the entier team.
That is if everyone knew what they were doing ofcourse ^_^
I change my mind. I won't say "Nothing" I agree with this. I loved how players can stack synnergy.
1- the item management system (inventory, bank, auction, etc all on the go)
2- no (or at least not focused on) holy trinity. If mmos keep focusing on trinity we will never have real player skill mmorpgs (note i said mmorpgs). Holy trinity forces the game to be gear stat focused. Real player skill dont need the best gear to take on anyone so trinity is useless on real player skill combat (both in pvp and pve). Let any player be their own "tank, healer, dps" and dont require a mandatory trinity formation to be a successful group. Tank playing around with taunts, Healer playing around with the UI, and dps spamming attacks and crowd control, no player skill at all. The gear is doing the players job. Which kinda sucks. Look at Dark SOuls, you can beat the entire game naked with a stick if you have the skill to do it. Add that in an mmorpg and you will have the best player-skill based mmorpg ever made. So i would take the GW2 system (which is good) and improve it by mixing it with some Dark SOuls mechanics.
3- the combat system.
4- Dynamic events. This is the first mmo that focuses on dynamic events. Rift and Warhammer had them but they had it as a second thought. If the company start seeing dynamic events as more important progression rather than the generic ! questing, the DE will improve significantly because companies will come up with new ideas to make such DE different, longer, more varied and fun, less repetitive, more indepth and perhaps with even permanent outcomes instead of just re-cycling it. GW2 started focusing on them so thats a good start.
5- Level scaling down to find challenges in every map, or just remove levels completely. Im ok with any of those.
6- Transmutation. A lot of mmos are doing that but i find the GW2 transmutation to be the easiest and more straightforward of all. Put both items into the window and pick the stats and design you want. Very simple and intuitive, as it should be.
7- the Dye system. Every dye you purchase is added to a palette on your character window. No need to repurchase.
8- Id love a much wider and flexible version of GW2 weapon and skill system. Instead of 5 skills per weapon, give us a muchy bigger pool of skills per weapon and let me choose any 5 skills i want for each weapon type skill.
There are lots of other stuff but i thats all i got right now.
NOTE: this is what i would want in more mmos, If you dont like it thats ok, no need to bash any of my points. I would personally play a game with all this stuff any day over the one with your own features. Thats why i poit them out here. To share my wishes only.
Originally posted by Mannish GW2 did not do anything innovative to begin with.
So what MMO have you played that is excactly like GW2?
That doesn t = innovative at all, and you know it.
a game doesnt need to be innovative to be good. It has to be 1) different enough from the rest, and 2) well done. I personally (key word, personally) believe GW2 has both points and that makes my gaming experience fresh over all the sameness in every other standard mmorpgs. Not saying is perfect. Improvements and additions are always welcome in every game.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
1. Level scaling by zone/area. When you are a high level player in a lower level area, the game mitigates your level and stats to the maximum level & appropriate stats for that zone/area.
2. Dynamic events. I like that quests are tied to events that can have different outcomes. While I think this should be developed into a more complex system in future gaming, I like what Arena Net did here.
3. Apparel. The simple, or not so simple, task of creating textures and skins for items that players wear is something Arena Net did well. The abilities to change the colors of specific parts of each items was even better. I would love to see this done more in MMOs.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Dang op you just tested peoples pride in this thread.(Can tell the ones who got too much pride stuck up their ass lmbo)
But I would like sidekicking...don't really like having content too easy after leaving it so if that zone gets new features it'll be too easy if it tried to cater to all levels.
Umm I'd like the hybrid combat without the transparences...Wildstar is doing the hybrid but telegraphs unfortunately.
Let's see hmmm...auction house one was good, also underwater combat switch up.
There are some more but these are what come off the top of my head. I really hope MMOs find out how to innovate without using the same exact design choices GW2 use, that way there would be different MMOs instead of GW2 clones, spite liking everything GW2 has I like. Wildstar and TES seem to be doing that...can't say they are exact clons, but they aren't WoW clones from what I know.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by waynejr2 Nothing unique to GW2 that I want in a future game.
So you want what we allready have?
How could you infer that from what he wrote? He could quite easily want something different that isn't in GW2. From this thread, it seems like a lot of people didn't find too much that was innovative that they would want in another game. I personally liked the individualized node system and hope that another game adapts that.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by waynejr2 Nothing unique to GW2 that I want in a future game.
So you want what we allready have?
How could you infer that from what he wrote? He could quite easily want something different that isn't in GW2. From this thread, it seems like a lot of people didn't find too much that was innovative that they would want in another game. I personally liked the individualized node system and hope that another game adapts that.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Nothing because developers need to learn to think for themselves and stop ripping off other games.Not that GW2 didn't have a couple good ideas just devs need to stop ripping off ideas from other games and learn to think of new things to do.
Originally posted by skeeter667 Nothing because developers need to learn to think for themselves and stop ripping off other games.Not that GW2 didn't have a couple good ideas just devs need to stop ripping off ideas from other games and learn to think of new things to do.
I don't care if games rip off other games as long as they do a good job with it. If it is fun, it's fun. There are so many good features out there that no one uses or are poorly used. My biggest pet peeve though are lies and unfulfilled promises. GW2 made too many of those, such as dynamic events and the whole this game isn't going to be about "killing 10 rats" when the premise of almost every heart was the embodiment of that statement.
I'd like to see individualized nodes, dynamic events (though this idea could be improved upon still), the ease of auctioning, and they dye/apparal system. I know that dying isn't unique to GW2 but I like that once you used a dye color it is yours and you can dye your equipment with it as much as you want. There is nothing worse than spending money on dye for a gear set only to have to replace it rather quickly.
I know this wasn't exactly part of the question but I do have to point out....I do miss the holy trinity. I thought I wouldn't miss it but the more I play GW2 the more I find myself lamenting not being able to really play a healer. I try as much as I can but it just isn't the same. I don't know why but it's what I like to play...
Still playing GW2 so they must of done something right.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Innovative is one of those buzzword I hate to see. Its what games with recycled content can use to sound like a fresh game.
Someone was asking "what games are like GW2" in an attempt to call others out pointing out a real lack of overall innovation...err I mean uniqueness.
Well GW2 to me was world of warcraft with rift. put both games though a sieve to block out any and all complexity, progression, effort, difficulty, coordination, and well meaning I guess. That fine grain dust that comes out is GW2.
Yes it was polished, and yeah theres a twist here or there on some standard systems and mechanics.
At its heart GW2 is the same old game with a lot of stuff removed.
Im not saying its bad, it certainly is appealing for people who like the whole medieval fantasy thing but don't like RPG games.
In all honesty I see GW2 and Defiance as nearly identical games at heart. Thing is at least defiance has aim targeting. Makes zerging down stuff a bit more fun. Tab target combat is so stale when there is little to no complexity behind it or the character/fight.
As far as innovations go, I liked the part where you cast a skill within someone elses skill and it does something extra. that was neat.
Also it was really innovative how hard they viral marketed the game. never seen a game forum pushed so hard as this game. lesson learned for many I bet.
This game is just an action game with tab target combat (imo)
Down scaling to zone level was a nice to have and the resource management (auto move to bank) was nice. But both are not game breakers for future MMOs.
Imo the major features (like dynamic events, WvW, no end gear treadmill, no trinity) didn't work that welll (no trinity), were only a too little step in the right direction (dynmaic events), were a broken promise later on (no end gear treadmill) or inferior to previous MMOs (DAoC RvR >> WvW).
No-trinity class design - love it, but desperately needs better mob AI and encounter design to actually encourage players to make use of it beyond zerker-builds.
Dynamic events - horrible title for a great system. It's not really about the events, it's about how these change the perception of the world. Needs more diverse events and more events in total to allow for longer loops and less repetition to really be effective. Also more consequences to the end-states of meta events. In its current form simply too under-developed.
Less progression-focus - best part of the game. Also its greatest challenge, to teach players you can actually enjoy a persistant shared world game without the need for a carrot on the stick. Would have love to see them try it without levels at all.
I'm not sure if you could remove any particular feature (at least regarding the PvE experience) by itself... they all intertwine. For example map travel makes sense in a game where PvE in cooperative and non-hub driven, plus doesn't require the time sink of elongated travel times due to a subscription. The cooperative PvE also ties into the gathering nodes for all, cross-profession combos, etc. that would work well in a competitive PvE. Dynamic events and event scaling is another one, ... OK, there we go. A trend. You want a major feature to take to other game... cooperative PvE as opposed to competitive. From that alone you can innovate a variety of things once you start with the base assumption that everyone in the PvE world is an ally.
Also many of the convenience items. Like has been mentioned, being able to place things for auction directly from your inventory regardless of where you are. Being able to remotely deposit collectible materials to special collectible bank inventory tabs that don't take away from your regular bank space, that's a beauty right there. Being able to level from a variety of means, including crafting, works beautifully when the gear grind/ time sink isn't required. Jumping puzzles should be in every game if for no other reason than to give you things to look for. The trading post and cash shop are amazingly well done and they've been able to avoid any scent of P2W whatsoever.
But... whatever pieces someone may think about removing need to be looked at as a part of the greater whole, and would that part work without the rest of the paradigm behind it.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Dynamic Events instead of quest hubs!
Mindless follow the Zerg Events, no thanks.
In fact there is nothing innovative about GW2, the game went backwards not forward. Innovative is Age Of Wushu offline system not anything you find in an ultra theme park semi co-op multiplayer game trying to be an MMO.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Dynamic Events instead of quest hubs!
Mindless follow the Zerg Events, no thanks.
Eh... aside from the handful of meta events (the ones with the reward chest at the end) that's not even a factor in the game. Some people like chasing dragons, most don't bother. What's nice with the event system is that you can be wandering anywhere in the world and things simply happen. You can't do that in the archaic quest bang system. Look at WoW as an example. Once you finish the quests in a zone what is there to do if you go back? Not a damned thing. Odds are you've out-leveled the mobs anyhow so they're one shot, but there's nothing in the zone to give you challenge, experience, interest, etc.
You get rid of the quest hubs and go with a scaling system and dynamic events and you have a world that, no matter the zone you're in, there's something happening that actually is worth doing.
Comments
That doesn t = innovative at all, and you know it.
I change my mind. I won't say "Nothing" I agree with this. I loved how players can stack synnergy.
Forgot about that one.
for me it is, in no particular order:
1- the item management system (inventory, bank, auction, etc all on the go)
2- no (or at least not focused on) holy trinity. If mmos keep focusing on trinity we will never have real player skill mmorpgs (note i said mmorpgs). Holy trinity forces the game to be gear stat focused. Real player skill dont need the best gear to take on anyone so trinity is useless on real player skill combat (both in pvp and pve). Let any player be their own "tank, healer, dps" and dont require a mandatory trinity formation to be a successful group. Tank playing around with taunts, Healer playing around with the UI, and dps spamming attacks and crowd control, no player skill at all. The gear is doing the players job. Which kinda sucks. Look at Dark SOuls, you can beat the entire game naked with a stick if you have the skill to do it. Add that in an mmorpg and you will have the best player-skill based mmorpg ever made. So i would take the GW2 system (which is good) and improve it by mixing it with some Dark SOuls mechanics.
3- the combat system.
4- Dynamic events. This is the first mmo that focuses on dynamic events. Rift and Warhammer had them but they had it as a second thought. If the company start seeing dynamic events as more important progression rather than the generic ! questing, the DE will improve significantly because companies will come up with new ideas to make such DE different, longer, more varied and fun, less repetitive, more indepth and perhaps with even permanent outcomes instead of just re-cycling it. GW2 started focusing on them so thats a good start.
5- Level scaling down to find challenges in every map, or just remove levels completely. Im ok with any of those.
6- Transmutation. A lot of mmos are doing that but i find the GW2 transmutation to be the easiest and more straightforward of all. Put both items into the window and pick the stats and design you want. Very simple and intuitive, as it should be.
7- the Dye system. Every dye you purchase is added to a palette on your character window. No need to repurchase.
8- Id love a much wider and flexible version of GW2 weapon and skill system. Instead of 5 skills per weapon, give us a muchy bigger pool of skills per weapon and let me choose any 5 skills i want for each weapon type skill.
There are lots of other stuff but i thats all i got right now.
NOTE: this is what i would want in more mmos, If you dont like it thats ok, no need to bash any of my points. I would personally play a game with all this stuff any day over the one with your own features. Thats why i poit them out here. To share my wishes only.
a game doesnt need to be innovative to be good. It has to be 1) different enough from the rest, and 2) well done. I personally (key word, personally) believe GW2 has both points and that makes my gaming experience fresh over all the sameness in every other standard mmorpgs. Not saying is perfect. Improvements and additions are always welcome in every game.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
1. Level scaling by zone/area. When you are a high level player in a lower level area, the game mitigates your level and stats to the maximum level & appropriate stats for that zone/area.
2. Dynamic events. I like that quests are tied to events that can have different outcomes. While I think this should be developed into a more complex system in future gaming, I like what Arena Net did here.
3. Apparel. The simple, or not so simple, task of creating textures and skins for items that players wear is something Arena Net did well. The abilities to change the colors of specific parts of each items was even better. I would love to see this done more in MMOs.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So you want what we allready have?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
The Down system needs to be regulated to the trash bin of MMO gaming history..
Seriously, quite possibly the worst system ever in a PvP game to date.
Dang op you just tested peoples pride in this thread.(Can tell the ones who got too much pride stuck up their ass lmbo)
But I would like sidekicking...don't really like having content too easy after leaving it so if that zone gets new features it'll be too easy if it tried to cater to all levels.
Umm I'd like the hybrid combat without the transparences...Wildstar is doing the hybrid but telegraphs unfortunately.
Let's see hmmm...auction house one was good, also underwater combat switch up.
There are some more but these are what come off the top of my head. I really hope MMOs find out how to innovate without using the same exact design choices GW2 use, that way there would be different MMOs instead of GW2 clones, spite liking everything GW2 has I like. Wildstar and TES seem to be doing that...can't say they are exact clons, but they aren't WoW clones from what I know.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
How could you infer that from what he wrote? He could quite easily want something different that isn't in GW2. From this thread, it seems like a lot of people didn't find too much that was innovative that they would want in another game. I personally liked the individualized node system and hope that another game adapts that.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I don't care if games rip off other games as long as they do a good job with it. If it is fun, it's fun. There are so many good features out there that no one uses or are poorly used. My biggest pet peeve though are lies and unfulfilled promises. GW2 made too many of those, such as dynamic events and the whole this game isn't going to be about "killing 10 rats" when the premise of almost every heart was the embodiment of that statement.
I'd like to see individualized nodes, dynamic events (though this idea could be improved upon still), the ease of auctioning, and they dye/apparal system. I know that dying isn't unique to GW2 but I like that once you used a dye color it is yours and you can dye your equipment with it as much as you want. There is nothing worse than spending money on dye for a gear set only to have to replace it rather quickly.
I know this wasn't exactly part of the question but I do have to point out....I do miss the holy trinity. I thought I wouldn't miss it but the more I play GW2 the more I find myself lamenting not being able to really play a healer. I try as much as I can but it just isn't the same. I don't know why but it's what I like to play...
Still playing GW2 so they must of done something right.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Innovative is one of those buzzword I hate to see. Its what games with recycled content can use to sound like a fresh game.
Someone was asking "what games are like GW2" in an attempt to call others out pointing out a real lack of overall innovation...err I mean uniqueness.
Well GW2 to me was world of warcraft with rift. put both games though a sieve to block out any and all complexity, progression, effort, difficulty, coordination, and well meaning I guess. That fine grain dust that comes out is GW2.
Yes it was polished, and yeah theres a twist here or there on some standard systems and mechanics.
At its heart GW2 is the same old game with a lot of stuff removed.
Im not saying its bad, it certainly is appealing for people who like the whole medieval fantasy thing but don't like RPG games.
In all honesty I see GW2 and Defiance as nearly identical games at heart. Thing is at least defiance has aim targeting. Makes zerging down stuff a bit more fun. Tab target combat is so stale when there is little to no complexity behind it or the character/fight.
As far as innovations go, I liked the part where you cast a skill within someone elses skill and it does something extra. that was neat.
Also it was really innovative how hard they viral marketed the game. never seen a game forum pushed so hard as this game. lesson learned for many I bet.
This game is just an action game with tab target combat (imo)
Down scaling to zone level was a nice to have and the resource management (auto move to bank) was nice. But both are not game breakers for future MMOs.
Imo the major features (like dynamic events, WvW, no end gear treadmill, no trinity) didn't work that welll (no trinity), were only a too little step in the right direction (dynmaic events), were a broken promise later on (no end gear treadmill) or inferior to previous MMOs (DAoC RvR >> WvW).
No-trinity class design - love it, but desperately needs better mob AI and encounter design to actually encourage players to make use of it beyond zerker-builds.
Dynamic events - horrible title for a great system. It's not really about the events, it's about how these change the perception of the world. Needs more diverse events and more events in total to allow for longer loops and less repetition to really be effective. Also more consequences to the end-states of meta events. In its current form simply too under-developed.
Less progression-focus - best part of the game. Also its greatest challenge, to teach players you can actually enjoy a persistant shared world game without the need for a carrot on the stick. Would have love to see them try it without levels at all.
I'm not sure if you could remove any particular feature (at least regarding the PvE experience) by itself... they all intertwine. For example map travel makes sense in a game where PvE in cooperative and non-hub driven, plus doesn't require the time sink of elongated travel times due to a subscription. The cooperative PvE also ties into the gathering nodes for all, cross-profession combos, etc. that would work well in a competitive PvE. Dynamic events and event scaling is another one, ... OK, there we go. A trend. You want a major feature to take to other game... cooperative PvE as opposed to competitive. From that alone you can innovate a variety of things once you start with the base assumption that everyone in the PvE world is an ally.
Also many of the convenience items. Like has been mentioned, being able to place things for auction directly from your inventory regardless of where you are. Being able to remotely deposit collectible materials to special collectible bank inventory tabs that don't take away from your regular bank space, that's a beauty right there. Being able to level from a variety of means, including crafting, works beautifully when the gear grind/ time sink isn't required. Jumping puzzles should be in every game if for no other reason than to give you things to look for. The trading post and cash shop are amazingly well done and they've been able to avoid any scent of P2W whatsoever.
But... whatever pieces someone may think about removing need to be looked at as a part of the greater whole, and would that part work without the rest of the paradigm behind it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Mindless follow the Zerg Events, no thanks.
In fact there is nothing innovative about GW2, the game went backwards not forward. Innovative is Age Of Wushu offline system not anything you find in an ultra theme park semi co-op multiplayer game trying to be an MMO.
Eh... aside from the handful of meta events (the ones with the reward chest at the end) that's not even a factor in the game. Some people like chasing dragons, most don't bother. What's nice with the event system is that you can be wandering anywhere in the world and things simply happen. You can't do that in the archaic quest bang system. Look at WoW as an example. Once you finish the quests in a zone what is there to do if you go back? Not a damned thing. Odds are you've out-leveled the mobs anyhow so they're one shot, but there's nothing in the zone to give you challenge, experience, interest, etc.
You get rid of the quest hubs and go with a scaling system and dynamic events and you have a world that, no matter the zone you're in, there's something happening that actually is worth doing.
Oderint, dum metuant.