Originally posted by MegaTrAN I've been in all the betas and I wouldn't pay a sub for this game.
if the only reason you'll play a game is because its free, then why play any game? obviously if you have been playing in all the beta's you must have been enjoying it or you wouldnt have continued after the first phase, so your post is really about your lack of willingness to pay, rather than a statement about the game.
I think is because people think that developers live only from air and river water. Remember kids, we don't need food, so don't pay for our services!
Oh we'll pay for em when you guys remember that crafting a game is an art not connect the dots.
It's probably the most expensive and time consuming forms of art as well.
Expensive yes, time consuming... the greatest novels were written over the span of decades (and I am not talking multi-parters like Harry Potter, I am talking one book which may have come out in 3-4 pieces due to size constraints).
Considering novels are usually written by one person I would still say games still easily compare especially mmo's when you put combined time in there. Remember it's not just one developer and there a lot of layers to a game.
Remember that some of the best games are made by a visionary (Lord British, Chris Roberts, Sid Meyers, etc) so your comparison falls apart considering it is often one man actually crafting the experience as an theoretical form. Actual game development (IE actually building the game) can be likened to printing the book.
You obviously have no idea how hard coding a game is. You also have no idea the difference between a good coder and a GREAT coder.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Don't need a crystal ball when people in the industry are still praising f2p for whatever reason. Like I said, ignore it. Go pay for the games you want and stop shaming people for not wanting to pay a sub.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Don't need a crystal ball when people in the industry are still praising f2p for whatever reason. Like I said, ignore it. Go pay for the games you want and stop shaming people for not wanting to pay a sub.
People like it when they can print their own money, color me shocked. Pretty sure it is one of the oldest scams in the history of currency based economic markets.
I don't think anyone is trying to "shame you" for not wanting to play FFXIV, but buying items for your video game characters? Some people in the world don't and probably never will understand how an adult can justify that purchase.
They ask: "Do they know it isn't real?" "$35 for a helmet? What is so special about the helmet again?". "You spent HOW much on boxes just for a CHANCE to get the item you wanted? An item that again is just for your video game character to sometimes wear in a video game???" and yes some may ask "Why wouldn't you just play a game where you don't have to pay for shiny new items for your character.... like almost all video games ever created".
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Did you seriously just try to use Neverwinter as an example of a well supported F2P game? The only update it's had since launch was that new hybrid PvE/PvP map which was actually delayed launch content. ALL other updates released have added nothing but new junk to the cash shop. Honestly Neverwinter is the perfect example of what F2P encourages: lazy development, a focus on useless junk in the cash shop over content and artificial restrictions (such as crafting timers) that exist solely to make people pay money.
I'll give you TSW, but it's B2P, not F2P, and they make their money from selling content packs. It's actually a very different business model. As for GW2... lol updates? They may be frequent but there is usually almost nothing in them.
I think you'll find the cash shop itself isn't what bothers most people. It's the way the devs shift the focus of development as a result of having one. Major content updates become less frequent, features start becoming deliberately inconvenient... any game that relies on its cash shop has these issues, and any game that doesn't have such issues does not rely on its cash shop.
The normal routine (which will more than likely apply here): Buy the game, play the head start / free month (29.99 for normal edition if you never bought it the first time). Sub for one extra month, standard 15$ (optional depending on how fast you consume the content). Cancel sub and wait for F2P conversion..
Thus will be the result for every P2P MMO to arrive this fall, TESO included.. No need to whine about sub fees right now because history has taught us that eventually they will go away. How long that may be? No one knows, but I have very few doubts that they will.
The normal routine (which will more than likely apply here): Buy the game, play the head start / free month (29.99 for normal edition if you never bought it the first time). Sub for one extra month, standard 15$ (optional depending on how fast you consume the content). Cancel sub and wait for F2P conversion..
Thus will be the result for every P2P MMO to arrive this fall, TESO included.. No need to whine about sub fees right now because history has taught us that eventually they will go away. How long that may be? No one knows, but I have very few doubts that they will.
I guarantee they won't. Not anytime soon anyway. If music, movies, and TV can continue to require payment (and survive) in this day and age so can MMO subs.
The normal routine (which will more than likely apply here): Buy the game, play the head start / free month (29.99 for normal edition if you never bought it the first time). Sub for one extra month, standard 15$ (optional depending on how fast you consume the content). Cancel sub and wait for F2P conversion..
Thus will be the result for every P2P MMO to arrive this fall, TESO included.. No need to whine about sub fees right now because history has taught us that eventually they will go away. How long that may be? No one knows, but I have very few doubts that they will.
I take you haven't bothered to actually read anything in this thread...
The producer has already stated the game will simply shut down before it ever goes F2P.
SE aren't budgeting around having 10 million subscribers like so many publishers have; they expect around 400k, which is more than reasonable given that this is a worldwide release.
Most of the MMOs that switched from sub to F2P did so because they were bad games. Unfortunately the MMO genre has seen pretty much nothing but bad games since WoW's release, primarily because innovation went down the drain and everyone was chasing the same oversaturated market (which is a recipe for a failed business venture).
Most of the MMOs that switched from sub to F2P did so because the investors wanted a quick return on investment. In other words they got impatient and greedy and forced the publisher's hand. SE does not have this problem.
The major support for F2P given rise in the last few years is not due to a change in public opinion. It's because A whole crap load of F2P only cheapskates have entered the market. It's only logical that there would be a hell of a lot more of them (because it's free) and thus they are now drowning out those of us that still prefer the subscription model.
If XI could stay P2P as long as it is, this game will stay even longer.
These people who preach f2p literally can't tell me a single f2p game thats actually worth my time. There is none, because quality is something you have to pay for.
Kind of pointless to even talk about F2P vs P2P, they are both good payment models and have both their streanths and weaknesses. The reason why FF14ARR is P2P is because that models works the best with that game and it has been working pretty well with their past game as well. So, it's kind of pointless to do F2P vs P2P, if you enjoy the game why does it matter what payment model it uses?
I'm happy it's sub-based. I think F2P MMO's with cash shops make for an unrewarding experience and in some cases even ruins the game, depending on what items can be purchased. I want to play an MMO where I earn stuff by completing in-game events, earning an achievement or some other in-game mechanic, not something that can be simply purchased in a cash shop. I'm happy Square-Enix is sticking with it.
I will say it is very comforting to know that this game will have player housing with decorations, furniture and the whole nine. And NO cash shop exploiting that system.
Originally posted by Ticklepink couldn't agree more I beta'd for SWTOR and played it heavily for 6 months. I went back recently and was nauseated by the "subscribe now" tabs every where. They should rename it SNTOR (Subscribe Nau the Old Reacharound)
The normal routine (which will more than likely apply here): Buy the game, play the head start / free month (29.99 for normal edition if you never bought it the first time). Sub for one extra month, standard 15$ (optional depending on how fast you consume the content). Cancel sub and wait for F2P conversion..
Thus will be the result for every P2P MMO to arrive this fall, TESO included.. No need to whine about sub fees right now because history has taught us that eventually they will go away. How long that may be? No one knows, but I have very few doubts that they will.
I guarantee they won't. Not anytime soon anyway. If music, movies, and TV can continue to require payment (and survive) in this day and age so can MMO subs.
Nobody looks at the individual circumstances surrounding each game's conversion to F2P. Each and every one is different. But as soon as they go F2P, the bandwagoners rise up shouting "P2P is Dead Vive la Cash Shops"
P2P is not dead. If a game comes around that players want, they'll line up to throw their money at it. How can you say this business model is dead. If that was the case, SWTOR would never have sold almost 2M copies to players who knew they were going t opay a subscription, and had the game actually delivered something, It would still be P2P. But the game failed because any and all worthwhile content was over in a month. Well, duh, P2P is the wrong model. WoW was so successful for years because (dare I say it?) OMG it had a grind! NOOOOoooooooo say it isn't so! An MMORPG with a grind????? WTF is that? Grind? Who does that? Anyway, I can go on about that. But yeah, a grind. and one that is worth doing with decent rewards and gear with stats that makes you hit for more damage than you did before and new abilities I can clutter my oversized action bars so I can hit up that quest hub and level up so I can take my healing and tanking buddies into that dungeon and get even more gear and OMG I'm goin oldschool here.
Take note of my Signature too BTW, feel free to answer that.
Nobody looks at the individual circumstances surrounding each game's conversion to F2P. Each and every one is different. But as soon as they go F2P, the bandwagoners rise up shouting "P2P is Dead Vive la Cash Shops"
P2P is not dead. If a game comes around that players want, they'll line up to throw their money at it. How can you say this business model is dead. If that was the case, SWTOR would never have sold almost 2M copies to players who knew they were going t opay a subscription, and had the game actually delivered something, It would still be P2P. But the game failed because any and all worthwhile content was over in a month. Well, duh, P2P is the wrong model. WoW was so successful for years because (dare I say it?) OMG it had a grind! NOOOOoooooooo say it isn't so! An MMORPG with a grind????? WTF is that? Grind? Who does that? Anyway, I can go on about that. But yeah, a grind. and one that is worth doing with decent rewards and gear with stats that makes you hit for more damage than you did before and new abilities I can clutter my oversized action bars so I can hit up that quest hub and level up so I can take my healing and tanking buddies into that dungeon and get even more gear and OMG I'm goin oldschool here.
Take note of my Signature too BTW, feel free to answer that.
So is FFXIV really going to be Subscription based? And if so will it have a cash shop? I'm finding it hard to believe. I don't think there's been a new triple A subscription based MMORPG since WoW in 2004.
FF IP has many followers who will happily subscribe for this game.
If it wasn't for the huge FF fanbase this game would have gone F2P within 6 months.
Sta Trek had many follower more than FF, Star Wars has many followers. more than FF, Warhammer has many followers again more than FF. IP and followers means nothing these days.
You can give IP fans a MMO which will cure cancer and they still wouldn't support it as a P2P model in long run.
Most of this is accurate. FF has a following and a good IP. But no where near Star Trek or Star Wars and neither of those games lasted. Maybe FF XIV will be a better game and can last longer as a P2P I do not know.
So is FFXIV really going to be Subscription based? And if so will it have a cash shop? I'm finding it hard to believe. I don't think there's been a new triple A subscription based MMORPG since WoW in 2004.
FF IP has many followers who will happily subscribe for this game.
If it wasn't for the huge FF fanbase this game would have gone F2P within 6 months.
Sta Trek had many follower more than FF, Star Wars has many followers. more than FF, Warhammer has many followers again more than FF. IP and followers means nothing these days.
You can give IP fans a MMO which will cure cancer and they still wouldn't support it as a P2P model in long run.
Most of this is accurate. FF has a following and a good IP. But no where near Star Trek or Star Wars and neither of those games lasted. Maybe FF XIV will be a better game and can last longer as a P2P I do not know.
Considering the toxic nature of even PVE communities I doubt it... to get another WoW you don't need a great game, you need a decent one with hooks and enough IP pull to get a critical mass of people before the newness wears off, if it gets critical mass it will be self sustaining but reaching that in a F2P market is even harder than the P2P market of yesteryear.
Final Fantasy XI, also known as Final Fantasy XI Online, is the franchise's first MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game). Final Fantasy XI was the world's first cross-console MMORPG, available for Windows, PlayStation 2, and Xbox 360. Since its release in 2002, it has become the most financially successful title in the Final Fantasy series.
Due to the nature of online RPGs, Final Fantasy XI differs from previous installments of the series, in that you are not the only hero. Instead, each player creates a customizable character and adventures through the world of Vana'diel with other players; leveling up, exploring, completing missions, quests, and much more. Like most of the gameplay, leveling up requires a group of people working together in what is called a Party, with each participant contributing their own skills to help take down a foe and gain Experience points. Battles occur in real-time, taking the ATB system to a new level, which was emulated again to a certain extent in Final Fantasy XII.
Currently there are some five hundred thousand people playing Final Fantasy XI, utilizing over two million characters. With constant updates and Expansions added to the game, Vana'diel is not a static world; instead, it changes and evolves with the passage of time.
This game was released in 2002 and is P2P and has been P2P
The FINAL FANTASY XI service requires a subscription fee, which includes the game’s basic fee and any other fees associated with options added to your service account. Service fees are billed according to the payment method designated in the service account you have selected. This fee is $11.95 for 30days . And it is still $11.95 11 years later .
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn is not and wil not and will never be F2P or B2P EVER! Again if any online game SE made ( FFXI ) that will go F2P it will be FFXI. And here is Yoshi P and his thoughts about F2P http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/yoshi-p-defends-ffxiv-subscription/
i would much rather pay to play a good game than play an "ok game" for free.
Heres what i think, WoW is on its way out the door. in general terms that is. Im not saying it will be gone in a year im saying it wont be around forever. SE and yohi-p know this and they are going to capiptalize on WoW being around for so long and becoming boring to people.
FF14 seems to be giving the majority its fans what they want. anything you could want in an MMO is either there, or going to be there very soon.
basiclly i think this is their market scheme. lets give everyone what they want, do it well, have it make since. So that when WoW screws up...again...we will be their go to game. They will already have a very large release just because of the name Final Fantasy. Sure some will leave after launch but more will stay and they will drag their WoW friends over and so on and so forth.
Final Fanatasy 14 is building itsself up for the long haul and i dont see any change in that in the near or distant future (yes i can see the future cant you?)
Paying for a game, for the most part, insurse you getting better content, better service, more reliablitly that sort of thing. Dont wanna pay to play it? dont. simple as that. BUT if you havnt played i would suggest using your 30 days free and giving it a good chance. i bet you change your mind pretty fast.
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Cash shop items still need to be developed and that in turn requires resources (developer, time, etc.) in order to do so, which costs money to do. Not every idea makes it into the cash shop either, so ideas are introduced, sometimes developed to an advanced state before finally being snubbed and new ideas needing to be drawn up from scratch. Doing all this requires funding, not including the original funds required to keep the game running as well as expansions/updates. While more of the money might go to the "base" of the game development, it's still a waste of resources, in my opinion, that could go into polishing or making a good expansion/update even better.
Most of the expansions/updates I've seen or been a part of in f2p games (or games with cash shops) tend to be "anorexic" at best, with just enough content to give players starting to get bored, something extra to do. They lack substance and only a brief spark of excitement for something new, in my opinion.
Keeping it subscription based presents a very big challenge. The expansions/updates that come through NEED to be substantial, exciting, and provide more than just a dungeon or two, new mount, or pet. Expanding, logical, and engrossing stories and content that reignite the reason someone joined the game in the first place, otherwise, they'll start to lose subscribers. I'm sure the developers knew this and that's what I'm betting on. Knowing they have to work on some amazing content if they want to keep this going. I'd rather they put forth all their effort on that, then trying to figure out what new hat or pet would sell well in a cash shop.
If I have to shell out extra cash for something (more often then not, cosmetic), it's not worth it to me. If you need to pay extra for powerful items (getting the best gear) or gain access to small "extra" bits of content, I'll look the other way and won't bother touching (or will just quit) the game. If they took those same items and released them in updates for loyal subscribers, it makes me feel like my subscription is worth it and money well spent. I personally hate the idea of having to pay extra or more for a game I'm already putting a subscription into. It's what I'm paying a subscription for, for access to the game and it's content in it's entirety, not the privilege to spend even more money for fluff.
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Did you seriously just try to use Neverwinter as an example of a well supported F2P game? The only update it's had since launch was that new hybrid PvE/PvP map which was actually delayed launch content. ALL other updates released have added nothing but new junk to the cash shop. Honestly Neverwinter is the perfect example of what F2P encourages: lazy development, a focus on useless junk in the cash shop over content and artificial restrictions (such as crafting timers) that exist solely to make people pay money.
I'll give you TSW, but it's B2P, not F2P, and they make their money from selling content packs. It's actually a very different business model. As for GW2... lol updates? They may be frequent but there is usually almost nothing in them.
I think you'll find the cash shop itself isn't what bothers most people. It's the way the devs shift the focus of development as a result of having one. Major content updates become less frequent, features start becoming deliberately inconvenient... any game that relies on its cash shop has these issues, and any game that doesn't have such issues does not rely on its cash shop.
I see you haven't been paying attention to Neverwinter at all. It had much more than the PvE/PvP map. It had some events, a change to how the foundry works to prevent people from abusing it to power level, and most importantly, a huge content update with new enemies, new quests, new areas, new systems, and new races is coming out in 11 days from the date of my posting this message. So contrary to your belief, Neverwinter is a good example of a well supported f2p game.
Yes, updates in GW2, and yes, there is plenty to them. New regions, new stories, new weapons, system updates, upcoming class updates, and the list goes on. I take it that since you didn't even bother explaining yourself you are one of THOSE people.
And from what I have seen, most people do hate the cash shop, more so than any shift it makes devs undertake. All the complaints I ever here are "No moar lockboxs" "$20 for a bag?!" etc. I have never seen an MMO that has the devs create new features that are deliberately inconvenient when it goes f2p with the exception of SW:TOR, and that is the ONLY one. As for content updates becomign less frequent, that is merely an illusion created by how many f2p games are not made in the US and how all developoment happens in another country.
With our recession and the gaming companies constantly scanning their "bottom line" I highly doubt something unreliable as F2P can be "counted on" to increase revenue.
Most game companies point F2P gamers are "disposable" as well as they don't carry "brand trust" (in the words of ArenaNet.)
So what we have is, companies looking at people who root for a payment model, as that kind of person. Such as, a "F2Per" or "B2Per" or "P2Per" and they are price-pointing based on that particular person.
So they are looking at you, the gamer, now as a source of income individually. So, that being said, if they can maximize the cash shop (if and only if) and make it pay to win (no one deserves a free ride to max level) then maybe they'll first look at F2P.
However, you have to think of it from a business' perspective. Everyone's a possible "whale" and the only way to capitalize F2P is pay to win (which I monetarily support.)
Think I covered everything in this post. I'm a SQL/Web Developer for someone out there so I do believe I get to "share in" the business/ developmental point of view.
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Did you seriously just try to use Neverwinter as an example of a well supported F2P game? The only update it's had since launch was that new hybrid PvE/PvP map which was actually delayed launch content. ALL other updates released have added nothing but new junk to the cash shop. Honestly Neverwinter is the perfect example of what F2P encourages: lazy development, a focus on useless junk in the cash shop over content and artificial restrictions (such as crafting timers) that exist solely to make people pay money.
I'll give you TSW, but it's B2P, not F2P, and they make their money from selling content packs. It's actually a very different business model. As for GW2... lol updates? They may be frequent but there is usually almost nothing in them.
I think you'll find the cash shop itself isn't what bothers most people. It's the way the devs shift the focus of development as a result of having one. Major content updates become less frequent, features start becoming deliberately inconvenient... any game that relies on its cash shop has these issues, and any game that doesn't have such issues does not rely on its cash shop.
I see you haven't been paying attention to Neverwinter at all. It had much more than the PvE/PvP map. It had some events, a change to how the foundry works to prevent people from abusing it to power level, and most importantly, a huge content update with new enemies, new quests, new areas, new systems, and new races is coming out in 11 days from the date of my posting this message. So contrary to your belief, Neverwinter is a good example of a well supported f2p game.
Yes, updates in GW2, and yes, there is plenty to them. New regions, new stories, new weapons, system updates, upcoming class updates, and the list goes on. I take it that since you didn't even bother explaining yourself you are one of THOSE people.
And from what I have seen, most people do hate the cash shop, more so than any shift it makes devs undertake. All the complaints I ever here are "No moar lockboxs" "$20 for a bag?!" etc. I have never seen an MMO that has the devs create new features that are deliberately inconvenient when it goes f2p with the exception of SW:TOR, and that is the ONLY one. As for content updates becomign less frequent, that is merely an illusion created by how many f2p games are not made in the US and how all developoment happens in another country.
Heck, I would love FFXIV to be B2P/F2P with miserable cash shop, but it isn't. We do not choose game by payment model, we choose it because we like it. I don't care what payment model games have, I care will I like game or not. I don't care if they bring updates in 24/7, If I don't like game. I dont care if they told me "Hey, come to play our game, we will pay you" if game sux. Those games you mentioned are games I didn't fall in love with them. They are great games for someone who enjoys them, but in my very own opinion, they sux.
Comments
You obviously have no idea how hard coding a game is. You also have no idea the difference between a good coder and a GREAT coder.
Don't need a crystal ball when people in the industry are still praising f2p for whatever reason. Like I said, ignore it. Go pay for the games you want and stop shaming people for not wanting to pay a sub.
People like it when they can print their own money, color me shocked. Pretty sure it is one of the oldest scams in the history of currency based economic markets.
I don't think anyone is trying to "shame you" for not wanting to play FFXIV, but buying items for your video game characters? Some people in the world don't and probably never will understand how an adult can justify that purchase.
They ask: "Do they know it isn't real?" "$35 for a helmet? What is so special about the helmet again?". "You spent HOW much on boxes just for a CHANCE to get the item you wanted? An item that again is just for your video game character to sometimes wear in a video game???" and yes some may ask "Why wouldn't you just play a game where you don't have to pay for shiny new items for your character.... like almost all video games ever created".
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Did you seriously just try to use Neverwinter as an example of a well supported F2P game? The only update it's had since launch was that new hybrid PvE/PvP map which was actually delayed launch content. ALL other updates released have added nothing but new junk to the cash shop. Honestly Neverwinter is the perfect example of what F2P encourages: lazy development, a focus on useless junk in the cash shop over content and artificial restrictions (such as crafting timers) that exist solely to make people pay money.
I'll give you TSW, but it's B2P, not F2P, and they make their money from selling content packs. It's actually a very different business model. As for GW2... lol updates? They may be frequent but there is usually almost nothing in them.
I think you'll find the cash shop itself isn't what bothers most people. It's the way the devs shift the focus of development as a result of having one. Major content updates become less frequent, features start becoming deliberately inconvenient... any game that relies on its cash shop has these issues, and any game that doesn't have such issues does not rely on its cash shop.
The normal routine (which will more than likely apply here): Buy the game, play the head start / free month (29.99 for normal edition if you never bought it the first time). Sub for one extra month, standard 15$ (optional depending on how fast you consume the content). Cancel sub and wait for F2P conversion..
Thus will be the result for every P2P MMO to arrive this fall, TESO included.. No need to whine about sub fees right now because history has taught us that eventually they will go away. How long that may be? No one knows, but I have very few doubts that they will.
I guarantee they won't. Not anytime soon anyway. If music, movies, and TV can continue to require payment (and survive) in this day and age so can MMO subs.
I take you haven't bothered to actually read anything in this thread...
If XI could stay P2P as long as it is, this game will stay even longer.
These people who preach f2p literally can't tell me a single f2p game thats actually worth my time. There is none, because quality is something you have to pay for.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
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I will say it is very comforting to know that this game will have player housing with decorations, furniture and the whole nine. And NO cash shop exploiting that system.
Ahhh, is that why you are called Ticklepink?
I've played FF14 twice now, once when it infamously bombed and once again recently.
The revamped FF14 is a nice game and all, but releasing a subscription game in the current market is as bad as releasing an unplayable game in 2010.
Nobody looks at the individual circumstances surrounding each game's conversion to F2P. Each and every one is different. But as soon as they go F2P, the bandwagoners rise up shouting "P2P is Dead Vive la Cash Shops"
P2P is not dead. If a game comes around that players want, they'll line up to throw their money at it. How can you say this business model is dead. If that was the case, SWTOR would never have sold almost 2M copies to players who knew they were going t opay a subscription, and had the game actually delivered something, It would still be P2P. But the game failed because any and all worthwhile content was over in a month. Well, duh, P2P is the wrong model. WoW was so successful for years because (dare I say it?) OMG it had a grind! NOOOOoooooooo say it isn't so! An MMORPG with a grind????? WTF is that? Grind? Who does that? Anyway, I can go on about that. But yeah, a grind. and one that is worth doing with decent rewards and gear with stats that makes you hit for more damage than you did before and new abilities I can clutter my oversized action bars so I can hit up that quest hub and level up so I can take my healing and tanking buddies into that dungeon and get even more gear and OMG I'm goin oldschool here.
Take note of my Signature too BTW, feel free to answer that.
Its so true man....
Most of this is accurate. FF has a following and a good IP. But no where near Star Trek or Star Wars and neither of those games lasted. Maybe FF XIV will be a better game and can last longer as a P2P I do not know.
Considering the toxic nature of even PVE communities I doubt it... to get another WoW you don't need a great game, you need a decent one with hooks and enough IP pull to get a critical mass of people before the newness wears off, if it gets critical mass it will be self sustaining but reaching that in a F2P market is even harder than the P2P market of yesteryear.
Just because a lot of people here have NO clue about SE i thought i would drop some information for you .
Platforms PlayStation 2, Microsoft Windows, Xbox 360Final Fantasy XI, also known as Final Fantasy XI Online, is the franchise's first MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game). Final Fantasy XI was the world's first cross-console MMORPG, available for Windows, PlayStation 2, and Xbox 360. Since its release in 2002, it has become the most financially successful title in the Final Fantasy series.
Due to the nature of online RPGs, Final Fantasy XI differs from previous installments of the series, in that you are not the only hero. Instead, each player creates a customizable character and adventures through the world of Vana'diel with other players; leveling up, exploring, completing missions, quests, and much more. Like most of the gameplay, leveling up requires a group of people working together in what is called a Party, with each participant contributing their own skills to help take down a foe and gain Experience points. Battles occur in real-time, taking the ATB system to a new level, which was emulated again to a certain extent in Final Fantasy XII.
Currently there are some five hundred thousand people playing Final Fantasy XI, utilizing over two million characters. With constant updates and Expansions added to the game, Vana'diel is not a static world; instead, it changes and evolves with the passage of time.
This game was released in 2002 and is P2P and has been P2P
The FINAL FANTASY XI service requires a subscription fee, which includes the game’s basic fee and any other fees associated with options added to your service account. Service fees are billed according to the payment method designated in the service account you have selected. This fee is $11.95 for 30days . And it is still $11.95 11 years later .
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn is not and wil not and will never be F2P or B2P EVER! Again if any online game SE made ( FFXI ) that will go F2P it will be FFXI. And here is Yoshi P and his thoughts about F2P http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/yoshi-p-defends-ffxiv-subscription/
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
i would much rather pay to play a good game than play an "ok game" for free.
Heres what i think, WoW is on its way out the door. in general terms that is. Im not saying it will be gone in a year im saying it wont be around forever. SE and yohi-p know this and they are going to capiptalize on WoW being around for so long and becoming boring to people.
FF14 seems to be giving the majority its fans what they want. anything you could want in an MMO is either there, or going to be there very soon.
basiclly i think this is their market scheme. lets give everyone what they want, do it well, have it make since. So that when WoW screws up...again...we will be their go to game. They will already have a very large release just because of the name Final Fantasy. Sure some will leave after launch but more will stay and they will drag their WoW friends over and so on and so forth.
Final Fanatasy 14 is building itsself up for the long haul and i dont see any change in that in the near or distant future (yes i can see the future cant you?)
Paying for a game, for the most part, insurse you getting better content, better service, more reliablitly that sort of thing. Dont wanna pay to play it? dont. simple as that. BUT if you havnt played i would suggest using your 30 days free and giving it a good chance. i bet you change your mind pretty fast.
Cash shop items still need to be developed and that in turn requires resources (developer, time, etc.) in order to do so, which costs money to do. Not every idea makes it into the cash shop either, so ideas are introduced, sometimes developed to an advanced state before finally being snubbed and new ideas needing to be drawn up from scratch. Doing all this requires funding, not including the original funds required to keep the game running as well as expansions/updates. While more of the money might go to the "base" of the game development, it's still a waste of resources, in my opinion, that could go into polishing or making a good expansion/update even better.
Most of the expansions/updates I've seen or been a part of in f2p games (or games with cash shops) tend to be "anorexic" at best, with just enough content to give players starting to get bored, something extra to do. They lack substance and only a brief spark of excitement for something new, in my opinion.
Keeping it subscription based presents a very big challenge. The expansions/updates that come through NEED to be substantial, exciting, and provide more than just a dungeon or two, new mount, or pet. Expanding, logical, and engrossing stories and content that reignite the reason someone joined the game in the first place, otherwise, they'll start to lose subscribers. I'm sure the developers knew this and that's what I'm betting on. Knowing they have to work on some amazing content if they want to keep this going. I'd rather they put forth all their effort on that, then trying to figure out what new hat or pet would sell well in a cash shop.
If I have to shell out extra cash for something (more often then not, cosmetic), it's not worth it to me. If you need to pay extra for powerful items (getting the best gear) or gain access to small "extra" bits of content, I'll look the other way and won't bother touching (or will just quit) the game. If they took those same items and released them in updates for loyal subscribers, it makes me feel like my subscription is worth it and money well spent. I personally hate the idea of having to pay extra or more for a game I'm already putting a subscription into. It's what I'm paying a subscription for, for access to the game and it's content in it's entirety, not the privilege to spend even more money for fluff.
I see you haven't been paying attention to Neverwinter at all. It had much more than the PvE/PvP map. It had some events, a change to how the foundry works to prevent people from abusing it to power level, and most importantly, a huge content update with new enemies, new quests, new areas, new systems, and new races is coming out in 11 days from the date of my posting this message. So contrary to your belief, Neverwinter is a good example of a well supported f2p game.
Yes, updates in GW2, and yes, there is plenty to them. New regions, new stories, new weapons, system updates, upcoming class updates, and the list goes on. I take it that since you didn't even bother explaining yourself you are one of THOSE people.
And from what I have seen, most people do hate the cash shop, more so than any shift it makes devs undertake. All the complaints I ever here are "No moar lockboxs" "$20 for a bag?!" etc. I have never seen an MMO that has the devs create new features that are deliberately inconvenient when it goes f2p with the exception of SW:TOR, and that is the ONLY one. As for content updates becomign less frequent, that is merely an illusion created by how many f2p games are not made in the US and how all developoment happens in another country.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
With our recession and the gaming companies constantly scanning their "bottom line" I highly doubt something unreliable as F2P can be "counted on" to increase revenue.
Most game companies point F2P gamers are "disposable" as well as they don't carry "brand trust" (in the words of ArenaNet.)
So what we have is, companies looking at people who root for a payment model, as that kind of person. Such as, a "F2Per" or "B2Per" or "P2Per" and they are price-pointing based on that particular person.
So they are looking at you, the gamer, now as a source of income individually. So, that being said, if they can maximize the cash shop (if and only if) and make it pay to win (no one deserves a free ride to max level) then maybe they'll first look at F2P.
However, you have to think of it from a business' perspective. Everyone's a possible "whale" and the only way to capitalize F2P is pay to win (which I monetarily support.)
Think I covered everything in this post. I'm a SQL/Web Developer for someone out there so I do believe I get to "share in" the business/ developmental point of view.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
Heck, I would love FFXIV to be B2P/F2P with miserable cash shop, but it isn't. We do not choose game by payment model, we choose it because we like it. I don't care what payment model games have, I care will I like game or not. I don't care if they bring updates in 24/7, If I don't like game. I dont care if they told me "Hey, come to play our game, we will pay you" if game sux. Those games you mentioned are games I didn't fall in love with them. They are great games for someone who enjoys them, but in my very own opinion, they sux.