Yeah kinda curious how my not wanting to PVP jives with Joe Ganker who wants to kill every noob within ten miles of him?...The only way I have ever seen that work was one game that took a race and made it so it could not PVP nor be attacked in PVP.
hmm, isn't the bold parts contradicting each others. How can you ignore PvP when PvP players can kill who ever they want, want they want?
“The game is non-linear, start where you want, do what you want, when you want. Don’t like PVP? Don’t do it, you aren’t punished for it. Hate people? Don’t play with them, do what you want. Love PVP? This is an open ended sandbox world, kill who you want, when you want,”
They have cool ideas and nice looking game, but some features seems like a goldmine for griefers (you can rob stores at night, aka expect all the stores to be empty every morning).
Two possibilities:
(1) They mean "If you don't like PvP, then you don't have to initiate it, but it can happen to you anyway"
(2) EVE-style security zones including a PvP-flag or zero-PvP zone.
hmm, isn't the bold parts contradicting each others. How can you ignore PvP when PvP players can kill who ever they want, want they want?
“The game is non-linear, start where you want, do what you want, when you want. Don’t like PVP? Don’t do it, you aren’t punished for it. Hate people? Don’t play with them, do what you want. Love PVP? This is an open ended sandbox world, kill who you want, when you want,”
They have cool ideas and nice looking game, but some features seems like a goldmine for griefers (you can rob stores at night, aka expect all the stores to be empty every morning).
yea, that's the advantage and basic idea of a sandbox.
not so sure if you like it anymore?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
So depressing to read all of the posts crying about pvp. For whatever reason - everyone seems to think that the second they run out of a safe zone they are going to get ganked by 100 people salivating over their trash gear. That's not really how it works, and the opposite is often true. These PKers and PvP'ers that some of you are sooo scared of - are hunted more times than not. There is the occasional reject who decides to kill as many newbies as he can to make himself feel better about life. That guy also most likely sucks at PvP which is why he hunts new players. So as long as you're not terrible and have a sense of direction - you're most likely ok.
I have to ask though.. aren't you guys tired of NO Risk and FULL reward? I'm not even talking about PvP at this point. Even PvE has become this way. *Oh noes I died! Now I have to spend a few gold!* -Really? How about.. "Oh %@#! I just got killed by 2 people.." *calls friends and mobilizes group to find these 2 people.* Now all of the sudden you have a mission. A mission that is dynamic. Unscripted. Your personal challenge, and you came up with it all by yourself! Why do we need developers to hold our hands with quest systems? You ask for something new and refreshing, but there are only so many ways you can design something that is by nature.. linear.
I remember this happening all the time in my UO days, but you know what, it got old too. It was nice getting revenge at first. Taking all that time and effort to get nothing but revenge (a feeling) and nothing else I could use to further myself in the game, I soon stop enjoying it. It is no different than the same old theme park crap we have been fed.
I'm not sure how they plan on doing the pvp thing, but I'm going to guess some type of flagging system, who knows.
But I really like the idea of each city have its own karma and if people keep doing bad things (like looting stores or ganking lowbies) the city falls to anarchy, goes bankrupt (nothing left to steal), the NPC inhabitants turn on the players and so on.
So depressing to read all of the posts crying about pvp. For whatever reason - everyone seems to think that the second they run out of a safe zone they are going to get ganked by 100 people salivating over their trash gear. That's not really how it works, and the opposite is often true. These PKers and PvP'ers that some of you are sooo scared of - are hunted more times than not. There is the occasional reject who decides to kill as many newbies as he can to make himself feel better about life. That guy also most likely sucks at PvP which is why he hunts new players. So as long as you're not terrible and have a sense of direction - you're most likely ok.
I have to ask though.. aren't you guys tired of NO Risk and FULL reward? I'm not even talking about PvP at this point. Even PvE has become this way. *Oh noes I died! Now I have to spend a few gold!* -Really? How about.. "Oh %@#! I just got killed by 2 people.." *calls friends and mobilizes group to find these 2 people.* Now all of the sudden you have a mission. A mission that is dynamic. Unscripted. Your personal challenge, and you came up with it all by yourself! Why do we need developers to hold our hands with quest systems? You ask for something new and refreshing, but there are only so many ways you can design something that is by nature.. linear.
In my 14+ year experience some (not all) has been spent in PvP games and in that time every single game that allowed unrestricted PvP has been exactly that. Sure there are some people who are a shining example of restraint in an free for all environment but those people are such a fraction of a player base it isn't funny. It never fails, no matter the game, no matter the time you start playing it, there comes a tiem when you will get ganked, camped and ------ raped repeatedly by some asshat who gets his jollies off on inflicting as much pain as possible.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
So depressing to read all of the posts crying about pvp. For whatever reason - everyone seems to think that the second they run out of a safe zone they are going to get ganked by 100 people salivating over their trash gear. That's not really how it works, and the opposite is often true. These PKers and PvP'ers that some of you are sooo scared of - are hunted more times than not. There is the occasional reject who decides to kill as many newbies as he can to make himself feel better about life. That guy also most likely sucks at PvP which is why he hunts new players. So as long as you're not terrible and have a sense of direction - you're most likely ok.
I have to ask though.. aren't you guys tired of NO Risk and FULL reward? I'm not even talking about PvP at this point. Even PvE has become this way. *Oh noes I died! Now I have to spend a few gold!* -Really? How about.. "Oh %@#! I just got killed by 2 people.." *calls friends and mobilizes group to find these 2 people.* Now all of the sudden you have a mission. A mission that is dynamic. Unscripted. Your personal challenge, and you came up with it all by yourself! Why do we need developers to hold our hands with quest systems? You ask for something new and refreshing, but there are only so many ways you can design something that is by nature.. linear.
I've always felt that PvP was a cheap way for developers to avoid creating continuous entertaining PvE content. "Hey lets throw PvP into the mix, so when people get tired of playing through our crappy boring PvE content, they can always just fight each other for a change. It's a win win!
Or better yet. Lets not create any content at all (sandbox) except a few tools some trees and some bushes, and some clickity click crafting then let the players just hit each other and call it content.
That's pretty much how I feel about the state of current MMO development.
Funny that 14 years ago 2 of the best MMO's were both PvE focused and 1 of them (Asheron's Call) even allowed heavy solo play. None of them forced anything but the common denominator in all of them is it took time and effort to level up. Hitting the level cap wasn't something you did over the course of a week of hard playing. Often times it took many months, if not outright years to reach "said" cap.
This is the issue I have with most MMO's, they cater specifically to the endgame instead of forcing players to stop and smell the roses. As this genre like all RPG's gets its roots from the D&D Pen and Paper tabletop game it stands to reason the best thing about that medium was the journey, not the destination. I can't ever recall sitting around our barrack's "day" room starting up an epic campaign on one of those rare 3 or 4 day holiday weekends and thinking to myself: "Gee why not skip ahead to the end of the campaign as fast as we can ignoring any semblance or vestige of role-play to get that nice big shiny loot". NOPE never happened!!! RPG's have always been about the journey not the destination and most of the original MMO's knew this and artificially kept leveling rates down and progression slow to give this sense.
I blame the microwave, GenX, McMMO crowd for the bastardization of the genre.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Has the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Originally posted by Kniknax Has the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
Without a doubt yes.
Sandbox games are back on the rise.
The question should be, is that a good thing? Remember sandbox games died and we evolved away from them. Now we are regressing backwards but that doesn't mean it will solve the MMO genres problems.
I am not saying I am against it. I love sandbox games, and there is quite a few im looking forward too. What I am saying though is that I have my doubts about this revival.
Rarely does something that goes extinct get reborn and manage to adapt to survive in its new environment. savvy?
Originally posted by Kniknax Has the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
Without a doubt yes.
Sandbox games are back on the rise.
The question should be, is that a good thing? Remember sandbox games died and we evolved away from them. Now we are regressing backwards but that doesn't mean it will solve the MMO genres problems.
I am not saying I am against it. I love sandbox games, and there is quite a few im looking forward too. What I am saying though is that I have my doubts about this revival.
Rarely does something that goes extinct get reborn and manage to adapt to survive in its new environment. savvy?
Originally posted by Kniknax Has the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
The problem with sandbox is that everyone remembers their SWG or UO days and starts to dream how great it was..... For the most part, no game will ever measure up to these two, at least not in most of the minds of these people....As for the new stuff, there still isnt one released thats worth a damn.....One of the weaknesses of this site is that alot of this is just mental masturbation concerning things that are often quite a ways away and with little information.
Originally posted by mCalvert Sweet. we need more Fantasy games! /sarcasm
Yes we do(well atleast me), with realistic graphics, cos im starting to get tired of the cartoon/over thetop graphics most fantasy MMOS look like. Age of Conan is growing old and it looks. I will put this game on my radar...
So depressing to read all of the posts crying about pvp. For whatever reason - everyone seems to think that the second they run out of a safe zone they are going to get ganked by 100 people salivating over their trash gear. That's not really how it works, and the opposite is often true. These PKers and PvP'ers that some of you are sooo scared of - are hunted more times than not. There is the occasional reject who decides to kill as many newbies as he can to make himself feel better about life. That guy also most likely sucks at PvP which is why he hunts new players. So as long as you're not terrible and have a sense of direction - you're most likely ok.
I have to ask though.. aren't you guys tired of NO Risk and FULL reward? I'm not even talking about PvP at this point. Even PvE has become this way. *Oh noes I died! Now I have to spend a few gold!* -Really? How about.. "Oh %@#! I just got killed by 2 people.." *calls friends and mobilizes group to find these 2 people.* Now all of the sudden you have a mission. A mission that is dynamic. Unscripted. Your personal challenge, and you came up with it all by yourself! Why do we need developers to hold our hands with quest systems? You ask for something new and refreshing, but there are only so many ways you can design something that is by nature.. linear.
You TOTALLY missed what people were complaining about concerning the PvP.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
hmm, isn't the bold parts contradicting each others. How can you ignore PvP when PvP players can kill who ever they want, want they want?
“The game is non-linear, start where you want, do what you want, when you want. Don’t like PVP? Don’t do it, you aren’t punished for it. Hate people? Don’t play with them, do what you want. Love PVP? This is an open ended sandbox world, kill who you want, when you want,”
They have cool ideas and nice looking game, but some features seems like a goldmine for griefers (you can rob stores at night, aka expect all the stores to be empty every morning).
Two possibilities:
(1) They mean "If you don't like PvP, then you don't have to initiate it, but it can happen to you anyway"
(2) EVE-style security zones including a PvP-flag or zero-PvP zone.
Only No. 1 means they aren't doing a bit of PR bullshit lies. If No. 2 is true then this "kill who you want, when you want" is a bullshit lie. Cos if I wanted to kill you right now but you're in a safe zone.. then I can't.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Originally posted by Kniknax Has the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
Without a doubt yes.
Sandbox games are back on the rise.
The question should be, is that a good thing? Remember sandbox games died and we evolved away from them. Now we are regressing backwards but that doesn't mean it will solve the MMO genres problems.
I am not saying I am against it. I love sandbox games, and there is quite a few im looking forward too. What I am saying though is that I have my doubts about this revival.
Rarely does something that goes extinct get reborn and manage to adapt to survive in its new environment. savvy?
Oh and as to the game. Not a fan of the graphics.
The sandbox never went extinct.
If you were not part of the early period of MMO's, it makes it difficult to fathom why the sandbox genre fell out of favor. I believe it all started with the advent of EQ. EQ was the clear leader in the MMO world during that time. Blizzard brought in some dedicated EQ players, who were dissatisfied with SOE's design to come up with something better. That is all Wow is, a better EQ using Blizzard's warcraft IP. Wow took off like wildfire mainly because SOE blew it with an early release of EQ II that just was not ready for the public.
Anyways, developers and people funding these games noticed and everyone wanted to make the next Wow. Hence the popularity of the themepark design. It really was not that sandboxes fell out of favor, it was just that no one was making them. Because of Wow's popularity, everyone thought that the themepark was what the public wanted. The old sandbox designs were very dated by this time and really could not compete well. Even SWG was, at it's best, quite buggy at times.
I think more than anything, it was the funding mechanisms that drove this. Who wanted to fund a sandbox design when the prevailing success was a themepark?
Another point, it is a lot harder to design a sandbox, as balancing skills is usually much harder than balancing classes because there are more of them.
Hopefully the designers of this new game will do their homework and come up with something fun to play.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Originally posted by MalcanisOriginally posted by MondoA2JOriginally posted by KniknaxHas the Sandbox era begun again? Thats three announced now. Now we need a good one to be announced.
Without a doubt yes.Sandbox games are back on the rise.The question should be, is that a good thing? Remember sandbox games died and we evolved away from them. Now we are regressing backwards but that doesn't mean it will solve the MMO genres problems.I am not saying I am against it. I love sandbox games, and there is quite a few im looking forward too. What I am saying though is that I have my doubts about this revival.Rarely does something that goes extinct get reborn and manage to adapt to survive in its new environment. savvy?Oh and as to the game. Not a fan of the graphics.The sandbox never went extinct.If you were not part of the early period of MMO's, it makes it difficult to fathom why the sandbox genre fell out of favor. I believe it all started with the advent of EQ. EQ was the clear leader in the MMO world during that time. Blizzard brought in some dedicated EQ players, who were dissatisfied with SOE's design to come up with something better. That is all Wow is, a better EQ using Blizzard's warcraft IP. Wow took off like wildfire mainly because SOE blew it with an early release of EQ II that just was not ready for the public.
Anyways, developers and people funding these games noticed and everyone wanted to make the next Wow. Hence the popularity of the themepark design. It really was not that sandboxes fell out of favor, it was just that no one was making them. Because of Wow's popularity, everyone thought that the themepark was what the public wanted. The old sandbox designs were very dated by this time and really could not compete well. Even SWG was, at it's best, quite buggy at times.
I think more than anything, it was the funding mechanisms that drove this. Who wanted to fund a sandbox design when the prevailing success was a themepark?
Another point, it is a lot harder to design a sandbox, as balancing skills is usually much harder than balancing classes because there are more of them.
Hopefully the designers of this new game will do their homework and come up with something fun to play.
Investors invest in developers, not games. If sandbox games weren't getting funding, it's because the developers couldn't show they were worth being funded. If sandbox games are getting funding now, outside of Kickstarter, it's because the developer can show that they are worth funding. It's the difference between having an idea, and being able to execute an idea. A developer with an idea and nothing else is worthless, no matter how good the idea is. A developer with an idea that has shown they can execute on that idea is worth investing in, even if the idea is just good instead of awesome.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Two possibilities:
(1) They mean "If you don't like PvP, then you don't have to initiate it, but it can happen to you anyway"
(2) EVE-style security zones including a PvP-flag or zero-PvP zone.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
yea, that's the advantage and basic idea of a sandbox.
not so sure if you like it anymore?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I remember this happening all the time in my UO days, but you know what, it got old too. It was nice getting revenge at first. Taking all that time and effort to get nothing but revenge (a feeling) and nothing else I could use to further myself in the game, I soon stop enjoying it. It is no different than the same old theme park crap we have been fed.
lol they go F2P at the end.
Basically another, Hi im Firefall, I ran out of money so please play me and spend 100$ for some crap founders items so I can finish the game.
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I'm not sure how they plan on doing the pvp thing, but I'm going to guess some type of flagging system, who knows.
But I really like the idea of each city have its own karma and if people keep doing bad things (like looting stores or ganking lowbies) the city falls to anarchy, goes bankrupt (nothing left to steal), the NPC inhabitants turn on the players and so on.
Sounds cool, we'll see.
In my 14+ year experience some (not all) has been spent in PvP games and in that time every single game that allowed unrestricted PvP has been exactly that. Sure there are some people who are a shining example of restraint in an free for all environment but those people are such a fraction of a player base it isn't funny. It never fails, no matter the game, no matter the time you start playing it, there comes a tiem when you will get ganked, camped and ------ raped repeatedly by some asshat who gets his jollies off on inflicting as much pain as possible.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
That's pretty much how I feel about the state of current MMO development.
Funny that 14 years ago 2 of the best MMO's were both PvE focused and 1 of them (Asheron's Call) even allowed heavy solo play. None of them forced anything but the common denominator in all of them is it took time and effort to level up. Hitting the level cap wasn't something you did over the course of a week of hard playing. Often times it took many months, if not outright years to reach "said" cap.
This is the issue I have with most MMO's, they cater specifically to the endgame instead of forcing players to stop and smell the roses. As this genre like all RPG's gets its roots from the D&D Pen and Paper tabletop game it stands to reason the best thing about that medium was the journey, not the destination. I can't ever recall sitting around our barrack's "day" room starting up an epic campaign on one of those rare 3 or 4 day holiday weekends and thinking to myself: "Gee why not skip ahead to the end of the campaign as fast as we can ignoring any semblance or vestige of role-play to get that nice big shiny loot". NOPE never happened!!! RPG's have always been about the journey not the destination and most of the original MMO's knew this and artificially kept leveling rates down and progression slow to give this sense.
I blame the microwave, GenX, McMMO crowd for the bastardization of the genre.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Without a doubt yes.
Sandbox games are back on the rise.
The question should be, is that a good thing? Remember sandbox games died and we evolved away from them. Now we are regressing backwards but that doesn't mean it will solve the MMO genres problems.
I am not saying I am against it. I love sandbox games, and there is quite a few im looking forward too. What I am saying though is that I have my doubts about this revival.
Rarely does something that goes extinct get reborn and manage to adapt to survive in its new environment. savvy?
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
The sandbox never went extinct.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
The problem with sandbox is that everyone remembers their SWG or UO days and starts to dream how great it was..... For the most part, no game will ever measure up to these two, at least not in most of the minds of these people....As for the new stuff, there still isnt one released thats worth a damn.....One of the weaknesses of this site is that alot of this is just mental masturbation concerning things that are often quite a ways away and with little information.
Yes we do(well atleast me), with realistic graphics, cos im starting to get tired of the cartoon/over thetop graphics most fantasy MMOS look like. Age of Conan is growing old and it looks. I will put this game on my radar...
You TOTALLY missed what people were complaining about concerning the PvP.
Only No. 1 means they aren't doing a bit of PR bullshit lies. If No. 2 is true then this "kill who you want, when you want" is a bullshit lie. Cos if I wanted to kill you right now but you're in a safe zone.. then I can't.
If you were not part of the early period of MMO's, it makes it difficult to fathom why the sandbox genre fell out of favor. I believe it all started with the advent of EQ. EQ was the clear leader in the MMO world during that time. Blizzard brought in some dedicated EQ players, who were dissatisfied with SOE's design to come up with something better. That is all Wow is, a better EQ using Blizzard's warcraft IP. Wow took off like wildfire mainly because SOE blew it with an early release of EQ II that just was not ready for the public.
Anyways, developers and people funding these games noticed and everyone wanted to make the next Wow. Hence the popularity of the themepark design. It really was not that sandboxes fell out of favor, it was just that no one was making them. Because of Wow's popularity, everyone thought that the themepark was what the public wanted. The old sandbox designs were very dated by this time and really could not compete well. Even SWG was, at it's best, quite buggy at times.
I think more than anything, it was the funding mechanisms that drove this. Who wanted to fund a sandbox design when the prevailing success was a themepark?
Another point, it is a lot harder to design a sandbox, as balancing skills is usually much harder than balancing classes because there are more of them.
Hopefully the designers of this new game will do their homework and come up with something fun to play.
The sandbox never went extinct.
If you were not part of the early period of MMO's, it makes it difficult to fathom why the sandbox genre fell out of favor. I believe it all started with the advent of EQ. EQ was the clear leader in the MMO world during that time. Blizzard brought in some dedicated EQ players, who were dissatisfied with SOE's design to come up with something better. That is all Wow is, a better EQ using Blizzard's warcraft IP. Wow took off like wildfire mainly because SOE blew it with an early release of EQ II that just was not ready for the public.
Anyways, developers and people funding these games noticed and everyone wanted to make the next Wow. Hence the popularity of the themepark design. It really was not that sandboxes fell out of favor, it was just that no one was making them. Because of Wow's popularity, everyone thought that the themepark was what the public wanted. The old sandbox designs were very dated by this time and really could not compete well. Even SWG was, at it's best, quite buggy at times.
I think more than anything, it was the funding mechanisms that drove this. Who wanted to fund a sandbox design when the prevailing success was a themepark?
Another point, it is a lot harder to design a sandbox, as balancing skills is usually much harder than balancing classes because there are more of them.
Hopefully the designers of this new game will do their homework and come up with something fun to play.
Investors invest in developers, not games. If sandbox games weren't getting funding, it's because the developers couldn't show they were worth being funded. If sandbox games are getting funding now, outside of Kickstarter, it's because the developer can show that they are worth funding. It's the difference between having an idea, and being able to execute an idea. A developer with an idea and nothing else is worthless, no matter how good the idea is. A developer with an idea that has shown they can execute on that idea is worth investing in, even if the idea is just good instead of awesome.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.