you're assuming it would be free for all pking. There should be interesting rules/laws/penalties involving killing people (especially people of the same faction/clan/race/whatever), but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE. You should always have the possibility of somebody being evil and betraying his own kin. How is it fun or interesting to have things be scripted and predictable?
Because what you offer is more predictable, everyone will turn into an asshole. When you go into lowsec in EVE, do you assume most people are not interested in shooting you? Will most people not bother you? Completely false. Not to mention every alliance being NBSI.
I don't know anything about EVE. But in UO the vast majority of the people you met out in the wild were "blue" and absolutely did not attack you. There were PK's for sure, but by far the most people you ran into were law abiding citizens. So as usual from the PvE crowd, you're just assuming things about ow pvp games that simply aren't true. I'm sure SOME games are like that, but the fact that games have done it right (UO) means that it can be done again. And UO didn't even do everything it could. Like I've said before, the bounty hunter system was basically non-existent, and you STILL had guilds that specialized in hunting reds.
People are stupid, in MMO's they become even more stupid because it's "just a game", you need to give them some boundaries and structure so they don't go haywire.
Yes. NOBODY is saying to have no boundaries. I'm not sure why we have to say this so often. Do you guys just not read our posts? We have consistently said that there should be rules in place, just like there are in real life.
As for penalties, sure. Like I said in another thread. Murder? Banished from all main cities forever and KOS for all guards (well, actually, there are funkier things to do here with EQ's lore). Killed someone 3 times? Death penalty and character wipe. If you implement that, I'll be happy. Don't like it? Well, shit, murdering people kinda has consequences, you know.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
unfortunately the communities we had in UO days, have degraded for the worse. back in those days. people enjoyed fair fights, enjoyed challenge. had something called Honor and respect for their foes, (for the most part) back in those days, if you were a douchebag, you would risk facing perma isolation from the server. reputation was something that mattered.
nowadays we have a new kind of gamer. much younger generation. (i call it the wow generation) that's the reason that pvp nowadays is not what it used to be. and that s the reason so many former hardcore pvpers (including myself) avoid that kind of games like the plague, and rather play shooters instead.
Just another pve crowd person talking about something they have no experience in. It's only your warped biased perception that people don't have "honor" or "respect" for their foes. The Darkfall community (one of the most hardcore communities out there) look down on griefers and people who jump low level people at mob spawns. It's like a very common thing for somebody to post some pvp video on the forums, only to be ridiculed by everybody because it shows him doing these things. And that's in a game that puts almost no limits on crimes/murdering people.
only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve. add RL penalties for murder. if you were a murderer irl, what do you think would be your fate? you are ither facing a death or a life sentence. at least you are in Europe though, murder is very cheap here lol, 20 years the most. pking in MMO should be dealt the sameway. iether with perma death. or a rl month or year without using that character. you would need to reroll again.
i got good news for you though. there are several upcoming sandbox MMO with free for all PVP, and very light penalties for pking ,
take a look at black Desert and archeage, it may be what you are looking for.
you're assuming it would be free for all pking. There should be interesting rules/laws/penalties involving killing people (especially people of the same faction/clan/race/whatever), but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE. You should always have the possibility of somebody being evil and betraying his own kin. How is it fun or interesting to have things be scripted and predictable?
Because what you offer is more predictable, everyone will turn into an asshole. When you go into lowsec in EVE, do you assume most people are not interested in shooting you? Will most people not bother you? Completely false. Not to mention every alliance being NBSI.
I don't know anything about EVE. But in UO the vast majority of the people you met out in the wild were "blue" and absolutely did not attack you. There were PK's for sure, but by far the most people you ran into were law abiding citizens. So as usual from the PvE crowd, you're just assuming things about ow pvp games that simply aren't true. I'm sure SOME games are like that, but the fact that games have done it right (UO) means that it can be done again. And UO didn't even do everything it could. Like I've said before, the bounty hunter system was basically non-existent, and you STILL had guilds that specialized in hunting reds.
People are stupid, in MMO's they become even more stupid because it's "just a game", you need to give them some boundaries and structure so they don't go haywire.
Yes. NOBODY is saying to have no boundaries. I'm not sure why we have to say this so often. Do you guys just not read our posts? We have consistently said that there should be rules in place, just like there are in real life.
As for penalties, sure. Like I said in another thread. Murder? Banished from all main cities forever and KOS for all guards (well, actually, there are funkier things to do here with EQ's lore). Killed someone 3 times? Death penalty and character wipe. If you implement that, I'll be happy. Don't like it? Well, shit, murdering people kinda has consequences, you know.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
unfortunately the communities we had in UO days, have degraded for the worse. back in those days. people enjoyed fair fights, enjoyed challenge. had something called Honor and respect for their foes, (for the most part) back in those days, if you were a douchebag, you would risk facing perma isolation from the server. reputation was something that mattered.
nowadays we have a new kind of gamer. much younger generation. (i call it the wow generation) that's the reason that pvp nowadays is not what it used to be. and that s the reason so many former hardcore pvpers (including myself) avoid that kind of games like the plague, and rather play shooters instead.
Just another pve crowd person talking about something they have no experience in. It's only your warped biased perception that people don't have "honor" or "respect" for their foes. The Darkfall community (one of the most hardcore communities out there) look down on griefers and people who jump low level people at mob spawns. It's like a very common thing for somebody to post some pvp video on the forums, only to be ridiculed by everybody because it shows him doing these things. And that's in a game that puts almost no limits on crimes/murdering people.
only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve. add RL penalties for murder. if you were a murderer irl, what do you think would be your fate? you are ither facing a death or a life sentence. at least you are in Europe though, murder is very cheap here lol, 20 years the most. pking in MMO should be dealt the sameway. iether with perma death. or a rl month or year without using that character. you would need to reroll again.
i got good news for you though. there are several upcoming MMO with free for all PVP, i would take a look at black Desert and archeage if i were you, it may be what you are looking for.
Yeah you can't just assert things like "the only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve...." You're not God. Please stop just offering an opinion with nothing to back it up. You're just saying "here's how i want it to be" not "here's WHY I think it should be like this"
What would be your fate if you fought a dragon in real life? Should you have perma-death everytime you die? No, obviously not. The point of a game is to play the game. Something that stops you from playing the game isn't something that should be in the game, regardless of its real world analog.
you're assuming it would be free for all pking. There should be interesting rules/laws/penalties involving killing people (especially people of the same faction/clan/race/whatever), but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE. You should always have the possibility of somebody being evil and betraying his own kin. How is it fun or interesting to have things be scripted and predictable?
Because what you offer is more predictable, everyone will turn into an asshole. When you go into lowsec in EVE, do you assume most people are not interested in shooting you? Will most people not bother you? Completely false. Not to mention every alliance being NBSI.
I don't know anything about EVE. But in UO the vast majority of the people you met out in the wild were "blue" and absolutely did not attack you. There were PK's for sure, but by far the most people you ran into were law abiding citizens. So as usual from the PvE crowd, you're just assuming things about ow pvp games that simply aren't true. I'm sure SOME games are like that, but the fact that games have done it right (UO) means that it can be done again. And UO didn't even do everything it could. Like I've said before, the bounty hunter system was basically non-existent, and you STILL had guilds that specialized in hunting reds.
People are stupid, in MMO's they become even more stupid because it's "just a game", you need to give them some boundaries and structure so they don't go haywire.
Yes. NOBODY is saying to have no boundaries. I'm not sure why we have to say this so often. Do you guys just not read our posts? We have consistently said that there should be rules in place, just like there are in real life.
As for penalties, sure. Like I said in another thread. Murder? Banished from all main cities forever and KOS for all guards (well, actually, there are funkier things to do here with EQ's lore). Killed someone 3 times? Death penalty and character wipe. If you implement that, I'll be happy. Don't like it? Well, shit, murdering people kinda has consequences, you know.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
unfortunately the communities we had in UO days, have degraded for the worse. back in those days. people enjoyed fair fights, enjoyed challenge. had something called Honor and respect for their foes, (for the most part) back in those days, if you were a douchebag, you would risk facing perma isolation from the server. reputation was something that mattered.
nowadays we have a new kind of gamer. much younger generation. (i call it the wow generation) that's the reason that pvp nowadays is not what it used to be. and that s the reason so many former hardcore pvpers (including myself) avoid that kind of games like the plague, and rather play shooters instead.
Just another pve crowd person talking about something they have no experience in. It's only your warped biased perception that people don't have "honor" or "respect" for their foes. The Darkfall community (one of the most hardcore communities out there) look down on griefers and people who jump low level people at mob spawns. It's like a very common thing for somebody to post some pvp video on the forums, only to be ridiculed by everybody because it shows him doing these things. And that's in a game that puts almost no limits on crimes/murdering people.
only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve. add RL penalties for murder. if you were a murderer irl, what do you think would be your fate? you are ither facing a death or a life sentence. at least you are in Europe though, murder is very cheap here lol, 20 years the most. pking in MMO should be dealt the sameway. iether with perma death. or a rl month or year without using that character. you would need to reroll again.
i got good news for you though. there are several upcoming MMO with free for all PVP, i would take a look at black Desert and archeage if i were you, it may be what you are looking for.
Yeah you can't just assert things like "the only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve...." You're not God. Please stop just offering an opinion with nothing to back it up. You're just saying "here's how i want it to be" not "here's WHY I think it should be like this"
What would be your fate if you fought a dragon in real life? Should you have perma-death everytime you die? No, obviously not. The point of a game is to play the game. Something that stops you from playing the game isn't something that should be in the game, regardless of its real world analog.
that's exactly what youve been doing, you want no compromise, you want people to blindly agree, and all join the playing style you enjoy. you don't even want to consider what others wants. is what you want. it is your way or the highway, sorry pal, but that isen't the way things work.
you decided to carry on with the free for all pvp flag, and became a paladin . no consensus, no nothing. i admire your devotion for defending your playing style so hard. but believe me, that ain't gonna make people change their minds lol
nothing is certain yet, we still don't know what the devs have in mind, so everything is possible. it all depends on what goals this company have.
you're assuming it would be free for all pking. There should be interesting rules/laws/penalties involving killing people (especially people of the same faction/clan/race/whatever), but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE. You should always have the possibility of somebody being evil and betraying his own kin. How is it fun or interesting to have things be scripted and predictable?
Because what you offer is more predictable, everyone will turn into an asshole. When you go into lowsec in EVE, do you assume most people are not interested in shooting you? Will most people not bother you? Completely false. Not to mention every alliance being NBSI.
I don't know anything about EVE. But in UO the vast majority of the people you met out in the wild were "blue" and absolutely did not attack you. There were PK's for sure, but by far the most people you ran into were law abiding citizens. So as usual from the PvE crowd, you're just assuming things about ow pvp games that simply aren't true. I'm sure SOME games are like that, but the fact that games have done it right (UO) means that it can be done again. And UO didn't even do everything it could. Like I've said before, the bounty hunter system was basically non-existent, and you STILL had guilds that specialized in hunting reds.
People are stupid, in MMO's they become even more stupid because it's "just a game", you need to give them some boundaries and structure so they don't go haywire.
Yes. NOBODY is saying to have no boundaries. I'm not sure why we have to say this so often. Do you guys just not read our posts? We have consistently said that there should be rules in place, just like there are in real life.
As for penalties, sure. Like I said in another thread. Murder? Banished from all main cities forever and KOS for all guards (well, actually, there are funkier things to do here with EQ's lore). Killed someone 3 times? Death penalty and character wipe. If you implement that, I'll be happy. Don't like it? Well, shit, murdering people kinda has consequences, you know.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
unfortunately the communities we had in UO days, have degraded for the worse. back in those days. people enjoyed fair fights, enjoyed challenge. had something called Honor and respect for their foes, (for the most part) back in those days, if you were a douchebag, you would risk facing perma isolation from the server. reputation was something that mattered.
nowadays we have a new kind of gamer. much younger generation. (i call it the wow generation) that's the reason that pvp nowadays is not what it used to be. and that s the reason so many former hardcore pvpers (including myself) avoid that kind of games like the plague, and rather play shooters instead.
Just another pve crowd person talking about something they have no experience in. It's only your warped biased perception that people don't have "honor" or "respect" for their foes. The Darkfall community (one of the most hardcore communities out there) look down on griefers and people who jump low level people at mob spawns. It's like a very common thing for somebody to post some pvp video on the forums, only to be ridiculed by everybody because it shows him doing these things. And that's in a game that puts almost no limits on crimes/murdering people.
only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve. add RL penalties for murder. if you were a murderer irl, what do you think would be your fate? you are ither facing a death or a life sentence. at least you are in Europe though, murder is very cheap here lol, 20 years the most. pking in MMO should be dealt the sameway. iether with perma death. or a rl month or year without using that character. you would need to reroll again.
i got good news for you though. there are several upcoming MMO with free for all PVP, i would take a look at black Desert and archeage if i were you, it may be what you are looking for.
Yeah you can't just assert things like "the only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve...." You're not God. Please stop just offering an opinion with nothing to back it up. You're just saying "here's how i want it to be" not "here's WHY I think it should be like this"
What would be your fate if you fought a dragon in real life? Should you have perma-death everytime you die? No, obviously not. The point of a game is to play the game. Something that stops you from playing the game isn't something that should be in the game, regardless of its real world analog.
that's exactly what youve been doing, you want no compromise, you want people to blindly agree, and all join the playing style you enjoy. you don't even want to consider what others wants. is what you want. it is your way or the highway, sorry pal, but that isen't the way things work.
you decided to carry on with the free for all pvp flag, and became a paladin . no consensus, no nothing. i admire your devotion for defending your playing style so hard. but believe me, that ain't gonna make people change their minds lol
Not wanting a compromise isn't even close to the same thing as saying what you want with no explanation. Almost every post I've made is dispelling logical fallacies from people (like you above) or defending my character because people say I just want to gank low level players and drink their blood or something.
And by the way, I don't want everybody to join my playstyle. I've said a couple of times that I actively DON'T WANT the non-pvp crowd in my game. I don't want them in their influencing the developer and twisting it into another themepark. I'm not trying to change your mind and make you want to play a ow pvp game, but I am absolutely going to point out when you're wrong about something. If somebody comes in and says "I prefer my games to not have pvp. I like farming mobs and harvesting/crafting in peace." Do you think I would argue with that person? NO.
Yes, I don't want to compromise on the kind of game I want. Neither do you. Separate pvp and pve servers or zones ISN'T a compromise. You still get what you want, while I don't get what I want. You see how this post has substance and logic? Reasoning behind my thinking?
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
So if that is your answer, we have to seriously examine your motivations here.
Why exactly do you want PK in civilized areas to be frequent? I don't walk down the street expecting to be murdered, why's that, well, a mix of justice system and people not being dicks. PK is punished in our world because it's a grave crime. Btw, PK still exists in our world, it's just rare.
Yet you advocate that it should be allowed willy nilly with no proper consequences? What?
Immersion? No, not really, excessive PKing is actually less immersive than a justice system that punishes murderers. It makes no sense that people can waltz around murdering people and there are no consequences, nobody speaks out, nobody complains to the government/local police.
You want to PK, you need to do it smart, so nobody knows, nobody can write down your name and pass it down to the right people. Free-PK should be reserved for areas far away, it should indeed be such a rare occurrence in safe areas that it essentially never happens.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
So if that is your answer, we have to seriously examine your motivations here.
Why exactly do you want PK in civilized areas to be frequent? I don't walk down the street expecting to be murdered, why's that, well, a mix of justice system and people not being dicks. PK is punished in our world because it's a grave crime. Btw, PK still exists in our world, it's just rare.
Yet you advocate that it should be allowed willy nilly with no proper consequences? What?
Immersion? No, not really, excessive PKing is actually less immersive than a justice system that punishes murderers. It makes no sense that people can waltz around murdering people and there are no consequences, nobody speaks out, nobody complains to the government/local police.
You want to PK, you need to do it smart, so nobody knows, nobody can write down your name and pass it down to the right people. Free-PK should be reserved for areas far away, it should indeed be such a rare occurrence in safe areas that it essentially never happens.
Exactly correct. I provided Holophonist with an example system that could, depending on the specific parameters, provide an actual consequence for the anti-social behavior -- a real-world cash penalty with compensation to the victim. He basically went ballistic. The idea isn't perfect, granted, as this system would be unpopular with the PvP crowd. I originally suggested a cost of $50 as a consequence, with 95% going to the victim. That's a figure that I believe would make PKing a very rare thing. If the price were adjusted down to $0.10, it wouldn't be nearly as effective a deterrent.
My point was that there are ideas that could work to implement effective consequences for in-game activity, but the PvP crowd doesn't seem these as 'consequences', but rather as 'restrictions'. They want the ability to commit an act of unwanted aggression against another, and the ability to simply turn their computer off to avoid any repercussions. Taking the consequences to a real-world level neatly bypasses the off switch.
----------
There's a very significant question here, one that has yet to be tackled in a legal sense. Is non-consensual PvP a form of online bullying? I don't know. Someone, somewhere will eventually take this to court. Anti-social behavior without consequences is in a political bad light, currently. If you think SOE, Blizzard, etc., are horrible at developing games, imagine their products laced with governmental influence and regulations. It's not something I want to think about.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
if there are 12 races at launch in this new game then there should be 4 teams
team 1
human, barbarian, erudite,
team 2
gnome, dwarf, halfling
team 3
wood elf, half elf, high elf
team 4
ogre, troll, dark elf
Each team can attack the other teams
You can only attack another team or be attacked if you are within level range. light blue, blue, even, yellow.
Only time this rule is broken is if a grey (much lower level) actually attacks a red (much higher level) from another team. Once this occurs the red can attack the grey as well.
For those new to EQ those colors represent levels from a player's own level so light blue may be 3 to 5 levels lower. Blue may be 1 to 2 levels lower, white is same level, yellow is between 1 to 4 levels higher.
This system gives players a challenge, but does not allow for totally outmatched confrontations.
If a large group of level 8 players came upon 2 players from another team that were level 12.....they could still attack the level 12s and maybe win the battle since they have more people.
This system also puts teams in their own starting locations. This is important because there are guards and npc's of the same faction as the team you are with. Some factions overlap and are not kos to other teams, but many will kill another team on site. So starting areas are usually safe. Also, if a player from another faction attacks a player close to guards or npc's of that player's starting faction it will be considered aggression and they will jump in to assist the attacked player.
There are great distances in this game....more than likely. This means that different teams will not be finding and fighting eachother for a while.
Also there could be boats, zeppelins, and other means of player controlled travel. Perhaps if a player wants to reach a safe spot to collect ore, they build a zeppelin and pilot it up to an area of a mountain rich in ore where nobody else is at.
Main point here is.....there are ways to make the game so that pvp can be fun, or avoidable for a good chunk of the game depending on your play style.
Also with the system above....you don't have to attack a player of a different team if you don't choose to. It's just a rule set, not something that actually governs your choices within it.
For instance you can have a guild of various people from different teams on it. Teams can form alliances, there are all sorts of possibilities within this sort of dynamic.
You just have to be willing to give it a try.... only then will you know the fun that can be had.
This is a HORRIBLE idea. Basically what it will mean is nobody will PK ever. period.
So if that is your answer, we have to seriously examine your motivations here.
Why exactly do you want PK in civilized areas to be frequent? I don't walk down the street expecting to be murdered, why's that, well, a mix of justice system and people not being dicks. PK is punished in our world because it's a grave crime. Btw, PK still exists in our world, it's just rare.
I didn't say frequent. When did I say that? I'm not sure if you can read what you quoted but I just said it's a pointless system because NOBODY would ever pk. If that's what you want then you should just turn off pvp so people can't ever murder people. There's literally 0 reason to have a complex system that merely results in nobody ever killing anybody. It's dumb
Yet you advocate that it should be allowed willy nilly with no proper consequences? What?
NO. NO I DIDN'T. Why do you non-pvp crowd find the need to lie about things we say? I swear, most of my time spent in these discussions is just holding people's hands through a discussion because you refuse to read what we say. I didn't say without proper consequences. When did I say that????? I'm frequently talking about having proper consequences. Somebody recently asked me to outline a system I would like. I suggest you go read it before you make stuff up about me.
Immersion? No, not really, excessive PKing is actually less immersive than a justice system that punishes murderers. It makes no sense that people can waltz around murdering people and there are no consequences, nobody speaks out, nobody complains to the government/local police.
I WANT A JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT PUNISHES MURDERERS. Holy shit this is such a waste of time. What I don't want is perma-death. A game is meant to be played. Saying that's what we have in real life is a pointless argument because if you die to a dragon in real life, it would be no different than dying in the electric chair. A system that stops people from playing the game isn't a good system. It's a game, it's meant to be played.
You want to PK, you need to do it smart, so nobody knows, nobody can write down your name and pass it down to the right people. Free-PK should be reserved for areas far away, it should indeed be such a rare occurrence in safe areas that it essentially never happens.
What the hell is free-pk? Who are you arguing with? My favorite ow pvp games have safe zones in town where it's impossible to hurt people. Again, who are you arguing with? Nobody wants there to be no consequences to killing people, and almost nobody is saying there should be 0 safe zones.
that's exactly what youve been doing, you want no compromise, you want people to blindly agree, and all join the playing style you enjoy. you don't even want to consider what others wants. is what you want. it is your way or the highway, sorry pal, but that isen't the way things work.
you decided to carry on with the free for all pvp flag, and became a paladin . no consensus, no nothing. i admire your devotion for defending your playing style so hard. but believe me, that ain't gonna make people change their minds lol
nothing is certain yet, we still don't know what the devs have in mind, so everything is possible. it all depends on what goals this company have.
Try saying something like this:
I now understand Holophoner that there is no real compromise between what you want in a game and what I want because our wants and desires are just fundamentally incompatible. I also get that you aren't trying to force your views and preferred playstyle on anyone. I see the source of your argumentativeness is in how some people are making claims about what you want and how you feel without understanding your viewpoint and it is just an understanding of your viewpoint you are actually trying to impress on others.
I get that some people just want different things, and that doesn't make any of us any better or worse. Compromise just isn't always possible. Maybe someday we'll find a way we can play the same game, but right now I just don't know how.
---
I bet you would find him a lot more reasonable if you tried saying something like that.
I'm eagerly waiting for August 2. when all this will be cleared up. I expect bitter, bitter tears here, about how EQ:Next caters to carebears once again, and similar things, because anyone thinking SoE will allow things like unrestricted PvP with noob/lowbie camping in their next flagship game, well, as I already said somewhere, we must not live in the same reality plane.
This debate is moot until August 2. anyway.
The thread has more evolved into a thread about what we want in a game rather than what we feel EQN will have.
For good or bad, whether we are off-topic or not i'm not certain, but the thread has moved beyond speculation about what EQN will be and turned into more of a "here's what I want in a game" thread.
I too think EQN will likely have poor PvP in regards to many of our tastes here. I would also predict the disappointment will come from all camps. I can't say for certain, but I would bet all sorts of people are going to find things they aren't exactly happy with about the game.
Even so, many of us are advocates of open world free for all pvp but not advocates of games with "noob/lowbie" camping. Those two things aren't necessarily entwined.
August 2nd cannot come fast enough I guess. May be Smedley wants a niche game with open PvP and FFA.
You say you do not want noob camping but I played AoC , Lineage , Aion and I found that happening .You may not want it but often it happens. Aion at 35 I think or whatever level that zone opened to you cannot recall. There were hit squads going around hunting people .
Since when has the EverQuest franchise EVER been about PvP?
Sheesh. PvPers thinking every game should have Open-World PvP. I didn't see people walking into Darkfall going "Man I can't wait to PvE in this game." There can be different niche games for everything - EverQuest has always fallen into that PvE niche. UO was the PvP game competing with it. EQ2 and WoW (though different in how they achieved this from EQ/UO) fell into those type of categories. WoW has always had more PvP than EQ2. Can't people just let the EverQuest franchise go on how it is going to go on, without bitching about something?
If it's PvP-focused, I won't play it because it isn't EverQuest to me, just some bastardized franchise. If it's PvE-focused, I'll give it a shot. Just like if the next Darkfall comes along and is a wow-clone. It isn't Darkfall then, it's just a blatant money grab that shouldn't exist.
I too think EQN will likely have poor PvP in regards to many of our tastes here.
No Full loot FFA PvP doesn't mean poor PvP.
True, it absolutely does not. I never intended to sound as if I was saying all sorts of pvp that aren't my preferred type are inferior or bad in any way. Just that I feel it will be bad as in regards to my personal tastes (full loots and possible nearly everywhere), and a few others probably.
I can see how I worded that a little poorly and didn't convey that well.
From what I know about SOE in the past I can't disagree with the rest of what you've said.
I didn't see people walking into Darkfall going "Man I can't wait to PvE in this game."
Haha, if you had been around a year ago hanging out with me you would have seen just that!
Needless to say I didn't last long in the game!
Still, that EQ has always been about PVE and that EQN is, by the developer's words, a game unlike those games. It does leave the possibility open for EQN to have a PvP-centric strand running through it. For reasons we've all said before though, I too would not exactly expect it or bet on it.
I'm eagerly waiting for August 2. when all this will be cleared up. I expect bitter, bitter tears here, about how EQ:Next caters to carebears once again, and similar things, because anyone thinking SoE will allow things like unrestricted PvP with noob/lowbie camping in their next flagship game, well, as I already said somewhere, we must not live in the same reality plane.
This debate is moot until August 2. anyway.
Most of the discussion isn't even about a prediction of what EQN will be. Almost everybody just talking about the differences between the two types of games. I'll continue to tell people they're wrong and they're wrong, regardless of what happens on August 2nd. I'm really not emotionally invested in EQN and I'm sure it's not going to be the game I want.
that's exactly what youve been doing, you want no compromise, you want people to blindly agree, and all join the playing style you enjoy. you don't even want to consider what others wants. is what you want. it is your way or the highway, sorry pal, but that isen't the way things work.
you decided to carry on with the free for all pvp flag, and became a paladin . no consensus, no nothing. i admire your devotion for defending your playing style so hard. but believe me, that ain't gonna make people change their minds lol
nothing is certain yet, we still don't know what the devs have in mind, so everything is possible. it all depends on what goals this company have.
Try saying something like this:
I now understand Holophoner that there is no real compromise between what you want in a game and what I want because our wants and desires are just fundamentally incompatible. I also get that you aren't trying to force your views and preferred playstyle on anyone. I see the source of your argumentativeness is in how some people are making claims about what you want and how you feel without understanding your viewpoint and it is just an understanding of your viewpoint you are actually trying to impress on others.
I get that some people just want different things, and that doesn't make any of us any better or worse. Compromise just isn't always possible. Maybe someday we'll find a way we can play the same game, but right now I just don't know how.
---
I bet you would find him a lot more reasonable if you tried saying something like that.
I've never once belittled people for wanting something different. I've never argued with somebody for saying they hope EQN doesn't have ow pvp. I argue with people when they say something that is incorrect, that's all.
For instance. tt's ok to want separate pvp/pve servers. It's NOT ok to tell me that I should be ok with it or that it's a "win-win" situation. I'll argue with those people all day long.
I didn't say frequent. When did I say that? I'm not sure if you can read what you quoted but I just said it's a pointless system because NOBODY would ever pk. If that's what you want then you should just turn off pvp so people can't ever murder people. There's literally 0 reason to have a complex system that merely results in nobody ever killing anybody. It's dumb
First of all, not nobody. Not anybody who lacks any semblence of balls/ovaries, no, but that's actually the point - I want to eliminate all the cowards, griefers, and gankers. No PK for fun. Nada. If you are going to PK, it's a serious decision you should make for yourself and very carefully consider the pros and cons. That's how it should be.
It still provides the immersion factor that you CAN attack anybody, but you also have the immersion factor that it has consequences.
It's not dumb. It just doesn't fit your agenda.
Yet you advocate that it should be allowed willy nilly with no proper consequences? What?
NO. NO I DIDN'T. Why do you non-pvp crowd find the need to lie about things we say?
Because you said "nobody will ever PK" and that was the crux of your argument. You want PK to happen, more often than very rarely (what my system) would enable, ergo, relatively frequently. For that to be true, PK needs to have basically no consequences. When I say consequences I mean serious consequences indeed, outlaw, exile, prison, death.
None of the consequences you mentioned are "proper" by my standards, specifically because of what you said: "People will PK". If people are not terrified of PKing in safe areas, the consequences are far too small.
I WANT A JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT PUNISHES MURDERERS. Holy shit this is such a waste of time. What I don't want is perma-death.
Don't kill people in safe areas, then. Just asking you lot to behave, that's all. You're infringing on someone else's playtime, expect to pay for it.
What the hell is free-pk? Who are you arguing with? My favorite ow pvp games have safe zones in town where it's impossible to hurt people. Again, who are you arguing with? Nobody wants there to be no consequences to killing people, and almost nobody is saying there should be 0 safe zones.
There are no OW PvP games with proper consequences for PK. None. Nada. Zero. That includes EVE.
Plenty of people want no consequences, don't kid yourself.
Btw, why are you arguing with me? My statements were for punishment in safe zones. You say your favorite PvP games have safe zones where it's impossible to hurt people? So why are you complaining about "PK never happens in safe zones"? Isn't that the point?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I've never once belittled people for wanting something different. I've never argued with somebody for saying they hope EQN doesn't have ow pvp. I argue with people when they say something that is incorrect, that's all.
For instance. tt's ok to want separate pvp/pve servers. It's NOT ok to tell me that I should be ok with it or that it's a "win-win" situation. I'll argue with those people all day long.
I didn't intend to paint you in an unreasonable light.
It was just my way of trying to get across that so many of us aren't trying to force our viewpoints, but rather, understanding of our viewpoints and why things are as you say above.
I've read everything you've written in this thread and I agree with a great deal of it. I see a lot of reason from some of the more PVE centered people as well, but I also see a lot of what I can only hope is them reading too fast and not really absorbing what was said. Maybe just focusing on key words and replying to them out of context?
It was that sort of poster I was aiming at.
Which is not to say I am always completely on top of the comprehension game with other's posts.
Now I will include an obligatory disclaimer that there is misunderstanding and half-cocked arguments on both sides of the fence :P
Still, that EQ has always been about PVE and that EQN is, by the developer's words, a game unlike those games. It does leave the possibility open for EQN to have a PvP-centric strand running through it. For reasons we've all said before though, I too would not exactly expect it or bet on it.
"The developers have stated an intention to return to a style of gameplay more like the original EverQuest, while retaining the advances in MMORPG design that have developed in the years since that game first launched."
Well, it seems that devs say very different things just to please the people they are talking with at the moment. So i really dont trust them.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it" -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
Still, that EQ has always been about PVE and that EQN is, by the developer's words, a game unlike those games. It does leave the possibility open for EQN to have a PvP-centric strand running through it. For reasons we've all said before though, I too would not exactly expect it or bet on it.
"The developers have stated an intention to return to a style of gameplay more like the original EverQuest, while retaining the advances in MMORPG design that have developed in the years since that game first launched."
Well, it seems that devs say very different things just to please the people they are talking with at the moment. So i really dont trust them.
Indeed!
"“It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed with the same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before and the MMO world has never seen before.""
"We like permadeath for EQN"
"No, no, no. Not gonna happen. No permadeath experiments."
There was another too where he pretty much said they were going to have OW FFA PvP.
But ya, as you said, they could just be trying to please who they are talking to and build hype!
There is no way to know what the game is going to be like, and I think part of the reason we get mixed signals on the game is that it helps them keep the whole thing under wraps.
First of all, the paragraph you're responding to is me correcting your misconceptions about the kind of game we want. Second, I'm not sure why you guys argue from the standpoint that this has to be a game for everybody. Consensual pvp is NO compromise. To think it is shows that you guys are just completely unwilling to read the things we've said OVER AND OVER AND OVER. The type of game we want is one with risk/reward...... RISK/reward. If I can farm/harvest in peace, there's no risk.
Can risk/reward only be achieved by having OW PVP? Isn't it possible to have the danger provided by mobs. What if the monsters would loot your body after they have killed you?
Do you think that the PVE players don't want risk/rewards?
I think in general pve players are less interested in risk/rewards than the ow pvp players.
And yes it's possible to have risk without ow pvp. But OW PvP is the most interesting and deep way to do it because you can then have things like community politics and self policing. It's also an organic way to have pvp for the people who enjoy fighting, without having it be some tacked on arena or battleground.
Let me ask you this, if a pve player is ok with dying to mobs and losing their stuff (which is what I assume the risk would be) why are they not ok with dying to a player and losing their stuff?
I think the interest in risk/rewards is more an old-school/new-school thing. I have read many threads by old EQ-players complaining about the lack of death penalties in modern games.
To answer your question about having full loot pvp, well it makes the game into a pure pvp game. The looting makes ganking a viable way of gaining equipment which lowers the amount of players interested in doing hard pve content. As there is no risk involved in ganking the game will change into something that doesn't interest most pve players.
Let's be honest. In OW PVP a fight on equal terms are quite rare. It's almost always a gank squad vs unprepared targets.
To answer your question about having full loot pvp, well it makes the game into a pure pvp game. The looting makes ganking a viable way of gaining equipment which lowers the amount of players interested in doing hard pve content. As there is no risk involved in ganking the game will change into something that doesn't interest most pve players.
This is all true dependent on game design. Certain game design decisions could be made in certain games such that none of this were necessarily the way you describe it.
You're not making much sense, Holophonist. What I said referred to safe areas, you can go back and read it if you want. You responded to THAT, implying that it's wrong not to have relatively frequent PK in safe areas. Then you say you want safe areas to be safe. You say that you prefer OW PvP games with safe safe areas and consequences, implying such OW PvP games exist. I say none of the present OW PvP games have sufficient safety/consequences, you suddenly jump to implying they do not exist but could be implemented. Decide already? I think you're just trying to find something to reply to, tbh.
Also, nobody really cares about you. I don't care if you are a good and noble PKer and nobody here has proof of that. I don't care that your ideas are different from other FFA PvP fans since you have neither stated them nor proven positive intent with any of your posts. Why do you constantly have to say: "I don't do x". Nobody cares about what you personally do or do not do in games and we can't prove it. But plenty of people do x, and that's a fact. Nobody cares that you don't kill people in safe areas, plenty of people do. Our limitations are for them. If you fit in that group, then screw you. If you do not fit in that group, stop thinking everything in this thread is about you.
Maybe you should stop looking for things to argue with and things that are "wrong" to the point where your statements cease to follow or logic and actually suggest a working system?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Comments
only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve. add RL penalties for murder. if you were a murderer irl, what do you think would be your fate? you are ither facing a death or a life sentence. at least you are in Europe though, murder is very cheap here lol, 20 years the most. pking in MMO should be dealt the sameway. iether with perma death. or a rl month or year without using that character. you would need to reroll again.
i got good news for you though. there are several upcoming sandbox MMO with free for all PVP, and very light penalties for pking ,
take a look at black Desert and archeage, it may be what you are looking for.
Yeah you can't just assert things like "the only way free for all pvp in mmo would work well with pve...." You're not God. Please stop just offering an opinion with nothing to back it up. You're just saying "here's how i want it to be" not "here's WHY I think it should be like this"
What would be your fate if you fought a dragon in real life? Should you have perma-death everytime you die? No, obviously not. The point of a game is to play the game. Something that stops you from playing the game isn't something that should be in the game, regardless of its real world analog.
that's exactly what youve been doing, you want no compromise, you want people to blindly agree, and all join the playing style you enjoy. you don't even want to consider what others wants. is what you want. it is your way or the highway, sorry pal, but that isen't the way things work.
you decided to carry on with the free for all pvp flag, and became a paladin . no consensus, no nothing. i admire your devotion for defending your playing style so hard. but believe me, that ain't gonna make people change their minds lol
nothing is certain yet, we still don't know what the devs have in mind, so everything is possible. it all depends on what goals this company have.
Not wanting a compromise isn't even close to the same thing as saying what you want with no explanation. Almost every post I've made is dispelling logical fallacies from people (like you above) or defending my character because people say I just want to gank low level players and drink their blood or something.
And by the way, I don't want everybody to join my playstyle. I've said a couple of times that I actively DON'T WANT the non-pvp crowd in my game. I don't want them in their influencing the developer and twisting it into another themepark. I'm not trying to change your mind and make you want to play a ow pvp game, but I am absolutely going to point out when you're wrong about something. If somebody comes in and says "I prefer my games to not have pvp. I like farming mobs and harvesting/crafting in peace." Do you think I would argue with that person? NO.
Yes, I don't want to compromise on the kind of game I want. Neither do you. Separate pvp and pve servers or zones ISN'T a compromise. You still get what you want, while I don't get what I want. You see how this post has substance and logic? Reasoning behind my thinking?
So if that is your answer, we have to seriously examine your motivations here.
Why exactly do you want PK in civilized areas to be frequent? I don't walk down the street expecting to be murdered, why's that, well, a mix of justice system and people not being dicks. PK is punished in our world because it's a grave crime. Btw, PK still exists in our world, it's just rare.
Yet you advocate that it should be allowed willy nilly with no proper consequences? What?
Immersion? No, not really, excessive PKing is actually less immersive than a justice system that punishes murderers. It makes no sense that people can waltz around murdering people and there are no consequences, nobody speaks out, nobody complains to the government/local police.
You want to PK, you need to do it smart, so nobody knows, nobody can write down your name and pass it down to the right people. Free-PK should be reserved for areas far away, it should indeed be such a rare occurrence in safe areas that it essentially never happens.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I really dont see whats the problem.
Make a high sec area where you cant pvp and have full pvp in the low sec.
Everybody happy?
Exactly correct. I provided Holophonist with an example system that could, depending on the specific parameters, provide an actual consequence for the anti-social behavior -- a real-world cash penalty with compensation to the victim. He basically went ballistic. The idea isn't perfect, granted, as this system would be unpopular with the PvP crowd. I originally suggested a cost of $50 as a consequence, with 95% going to the victim. That's a figure that I believe would make PKing a very rare thing. If the price were adjusted down to $0.10, it wouldn't be nearly as effective a deterrent.
My point was that there are ideas that could work to implement effective consequences for in-game activity, but the PvP crowd doesn't seem these as 'consequences', but rather as 'restrictions'. They want the ability to commit an act of unwanted aggression against another, and the ability to simply turn their computer off to avoid any repercussions. Taking the consequences to a real-world level neatly bypasses the off switch.
----------
There's a very significant question here, one that has yet to be tackled in a legal sense. Is non-consensual PvP a form of online bullying? I don't know. Someone, somewhere will eventually take this to court. Anti-social behavior without consequences is in a political bad light, currently. If you think SOE, Blizzard, etc., are horrible at developing games, imagine their products laced with governmental influence and regulations. It's not something I want to think about.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
So here is a proposal....
Old EQ had team based servers based on races.
if there are 12 races at launch in this new game then there should be 4 teams
team 1
human, barbarian, erudite,
team 2
gnome, dwarf, halfling
team 3
wood elf, half elf, high elf
team 4
ogre, troll, dark elf
Each team can attack the other teams
You can only attack another team or be attacked if you are within level range. light blue, blue, even, yellow.
Only time this rule is broken is if a grey (much lower level) actually attacks a red (much higher level) from another team. Once this occurs the red can attack the grey as well.
For those new to EQ those colors represent levels from a player's own level so light blue may be 3 to 5 levels lower. Blue may be 1 to 2 levels lower, white is same level, yellow is between 1 to 4 levels higher.
This system gives players a challenge, but does not allow for totally outmatched confrontations.
If a large group of level 8 players came upon 2 players from another team that were level 12.....they could still attack the level 12s and maybe win the battle since they have more people.
This system also puts teams in their own starting locations. This is important because there are guards and npc's of the same faction as the team you are with. Some factions overlap and are not kos to other teams, but many will kill another team on site. So starting areas are usually safe. Also, if a player from another faction attacks a player close to guards or npc's of that player's starting faction it will be considered aggression and they will jump in to assist the attacked player.
There are great distances in this game....more than likely. This means that different teams will not be finding and fighting eachother for a while.
Also there could be boats, zeppelins, and other means of player controlled travel. Perhaps if a player wants to reach a safe spot to collect ore, they build a zeppelin and pilot it up to an area of a mountain rich in ore where nobody else is at.
Main point here is.....there are ways to make the game so that pvp can be fun, or avoidable for a good chunk of the game depending on your play style.
Also with the system above....you don't have to attack a player of a different team if you don't choose to. It's just a rule set, not something that actually governs your choices within it.
For instance you can have a guild of various people from different teams on it. Teams can form alliances, there are all sorts of possibilities within this sort of dynamic.
You just have to be willing to give it a try.... only then will you know the fun that can be had.
I didn't say frequent. When did I say that? I'm not sure if you can read what you quoted but I just said it's a pointless system because NOBODY would ever pk. If that's what you want then you should just turn off pvp so people can't ever murder people. There's literally 0 reason to have a complex system that merely results in nobody ever killing anybody. It's dumb
NO. NO I DIDN'T. Why do you non-pvp crowd find the need to lie about things we say? I swear, most of my time spent in these discussions is just holding people's hands through a discussion because you refuse to read what we say. I didn't say without proper consequences. When did I say that????? I'm frequently talking about having proper consequences. Somebody recently asked me to outline a system I would like. I suggest you go read it before you make stuff up about me.
I WANT A JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT PUNISHES MURDERERS. Holy shit this is such a waste of time. What I don't want is perma-death. A game is meant to be played. Saying that's what we have in real life is a pointless argument because if you die to a dragon in real life, it would be no different than dying in the electric chair. A system that stops people from playing the game isn't a good system. It's a game, it's meant to be played.
What the hell is free-pk? Who are you arguing with? My favorite ow pvp games have safe zones in town where it's impossible to hurt people. Again, who are you arguing with? Nobody wants there to be no consequences to killing people, and almost nobody is saying there should be 0 safe zones.
Try saying something like this:
I now understand Holophoner that there is no real compromise between what you want in a game and what I want because our wants and desires are just fundamentally incompatible. I also get that you aren't trying to force your views and preferred playstyle on anyone. I see the source of your argumentativeness is in how some people are making claims about what you want and how you feel without understanding your viewpoint and it is just an understanding of your viewpoint you are actually trying to impress on others.
I get that some people just want different things, and that doesn't make any of us any better or worse. Compromise just isn't always possible. Maybe someday we'll find a way we can play the same game, but right now I just don't know how.
---
I bet you would find him a lot more reasonable if you tried saying something like that.
The thread has more evolved into a thread about what we want in a game rather than what we feel EQN will have.
For good or bad, whether we are off-topic or not i'm not certain, but the thread has moved beyond speculation about what EQN will be and turned into more of a "here's what I want in a game" thread.
I too think EQN will likely have poor PvP in regards to many of our tastes here. I would also predict the disappointment will come from all camps. I can't say for certain, but I would bet all sorts of people are going to find things they aren't exactly happy with about the game.
Even so, many of us are advocates of open world free for all pvp but not advocates of games with "noob/lowbie" camping. Those two things aren't necessarily entwined.
August 2nd cannot come fast enough I guess. May be Smedley wants a niche game with open PvP and FFA.
You say you do not want noob camping but I played AoC , Lineage , Aion and I found that happening .You may not want it but often it happens. Aion at 35 I think or whatever level that zone opened to you cannot recall. There were hit squads going around hunting people .
Since when has the EverQuest franchise EVER been about PvP?
Sheesh. PvPers thinking every game should have Open-World PvP. I didn't see people walking into Darkfall going "Man I can't wait to PvE in this game." There can be different niche games for everything - EverQuest has always fallen into that PvE niche. UO was the PvP game competing with it. EQ2 and WoW (though different in how they achieved this from EQ/UO) fell into those type of categories. WoW has always had more PvP than EQ2. Can't people just let the EverQuest franchise go on how it is going to go on, without bitching about something?
If it's PvP-focused, I won't play it because it isn't EverQuest to me, just some bastardized franchise. If it's PvE-focused, I'll give it a shot. Just like if the next Darkfall comes along and is a wow-clone. It isn't Darkfall then, it's just a blatant money grab that shouldn't exist.
True, it absolutely does not. I never intended to sound as if I was saying all sorts of pvp that aren't my preferred type are inferior or bad in any way. Just that I feel it will be bad as in regards to my personal tastes (full loots and possible nearly everywhere), and a few others probably.
I can see how I worded that a little poorly and didn't convey that well.
From what I know about SOE in the past I can't disagree with the rest of what you've said.
Haha, if you had been around a year ago hanging out with me you would have seen just that!
Needless to say I didn't last long in the game!
Still, that EQ has always been about PVE and that EQN is, by the developer's words, a game unlike those games. It does leave the possibility open for EQN to have a PvP-centric strand running through it. For reasons we've all said before though, I too would not exactly expect it or bet on it.
Most of the discussion isn't even about a prediction of what EQN will be. Almost everybody just talking about the differences between the two types of games. I'll continue to tell people they're wrong and they're wrong, regardless of what happens on August 2nd. I'm really not emotionally invested in EQN and I'm sure it's not going to be the game I want.
I've never once belittled people for wanting something different. I've never argued with somebody for saying they hope EQN doesn't have ow pvp. I argue with people when they say something that is incorrect, that's all.
For instance. tt's ok to want separate pvp/pve servers. It's NOT ok to tell me that I should be ok with it or that it's a "win-win" situation. I'll argue with those people all day long.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I didn't intend to paint you in an unreasonable light.
It was just my way of trying to get across that so many of us aren't trying to force our viewpoints, but rather, understanding of our viewpoints and why things are as you say above.
I've read everything you've written in this thread and I agree with a great deal of it. I see a lot of reason from some of the more PVE centered people as well, but I also see a lot of what I can only hope is them reading too fast and not really absorbing what was said. Maybe just focusing on key words and replying to them out of context?
It was that sort of poster I was aiming at.
Which is not to say I am always completely on top of the comprehension game with other's posts.
Now I will include an obligatory disclaimer that there is misunderstanding and half-cocked arguments on both sides of the fence :P
"The developers have stated an intention to return to a style of gameplay more like the original EverQuest, while retaining the advances in MMORPG design that have developed in the years since that game first launched."
Well, it seems that devs say very different things just to please the people they are talking with at the moment. So i really dont trust them.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
Indeed!
"“It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed with the same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before and the MMO world has never seen before.""
"We like permadeath for EQN"
"No, no, no. Not gonna happen. No permadeath experiments."
There was another too where he pretty much said they were going to have OW FFA PvP.
But ya, as you said, they could just be trying to please who they are talking to and build hype!
There is no way to know what the game is going to be like, and I think part of the reason we get mixed signals on the game is that it helps them keep the whole thing under wraps.
I think the interest in risk/rewards is more an old-school/new-school thing. I have read many threads by old EQ-players complaining about the lack of death penalties in modern games.
To answer your question about having full loot pvp, well it makes the game into a pure pvp game. The looting makes ganking a viable way of gaining equipment which lowers the amount of players interested in doing hard pve content. As there is no risk involved in ganking the game will change into something that doesn't interest most pve players.
Let's be honest. In OW PVP a fight on equal terms are quite rare. It's almost always a gank squad vs unprepared targets.
If we add permadeath though...
This is all true dependent on game design. Certain game design decisions could be made in certain games such that none of this were necessarily the way you describe it.
You're not making much sense, Holophonist. What I said referred to safe areas, you can go back and read it if you want. You responded to THAT, implying that it's wrong not to have relatively frequent PK in safe areas. Then you say you want safe areas to be safe. You say that you prefer OW PvP games with safe safe areas and consequences, implying such OW PvP games exist. I say none of the present OW PvP games have sufficient safety/consequences, you suddenly jump to implying they do not exist but could be implemented. Decide already? I think you're just trying to find something to reply to, tbh.
Also, nobody really cares about you. I don't care if you are a good and noble PKer and nobody here has proof of that. I don't care that your ideas are different from other FFA PvP fans since you have neither stated them nor proven positive intent with any of your posts. Why do you constantly have to say: "I don't do x". Nobody cares about what you personally do or do not do in games and we can't prove it. But plenty of people do x, and that's a fact. Nobody cares that you don't kill people in safe areas, plenty of people do. Our limitations are for them. If you fit in that group, then screw you. If you do not fit in that group, stop thinking everything in this thread is about you.
Maybe you should stop looking for things to argue with and things that are "wrong" to the point where your statements cease to follow or logic and actually suggest a working system?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?