Year in and year out we are promised this and that from this Developers. And year and and year out they release absolute lack luster games our way. I first was snagged into this genre by Earth and Beyond, and while I know that was a pretty crappy game, it still was my first MMO and I fell in love. That love affair lasted to about 2009 (with various MMO's) and since then it just seems like MMO developers are releasing games that are even worse then before.
So I have said to myself, if this next group of MMO's (ESO, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or EQ2) fail to give me what I want or rather need in a game. It might, no it will, be time to go back to Consoles....
Has anyone else ever felt like this?
I already have moved back to consoles. But its not entirely for what you've said. I honestly just need variety from time to time. MMO's can't really deviate much without becoming a different genre anyway. So I go play some shooters or some regular RPGS. Skyrim was good for a bit. CoD was fun, I really got into zombies for awhile and had a group I could consistently hit around round 30 on. Just spice it up a little. MMO games have the problem of being really involved. So they end up being all you do for awhile, even if you TRY to mix up games a bit. Burnout is easy to come by when that happens.
I think that this is getting better, however. WoW made TONS of movement toward shorter playtimes and still getting things done. Dungeon finder, shorter level times, mob combination loot...all toward getting things done fast. It frees up your time. As more move into consoles (MMO games) you'll see this trend continue and that is a good thing. The industry has been killing itself for years with high time investment and burnout tearing people, not just from the individual game, but from the entire industry. We need the casual focus not because people do not have time to play...but because we need to do more with our time than just one thing or it gets old.
Honestly the games that have been coming out aren't that bad. The reason everything feels dull and same-y is because we've been doing nothing but playing one genre for too long. All platformers play the same, all shooters play the same, all RPGs even play the same. Yet there is less backlash for that in those than in MMO games. That is entirely because you can do each of those in one day and accomplish something in all of them but can only play one MMO that day if you intend to even begin gaining a level.
Its just how our minds work. It would help us all if we'd just admit that. The genre isn't crap, we're just burning out on the systems that make the genre work. We got addicted to the fun, and now we are growing so used to it that its wearing off. Do what all good junkies do and switch up your drug dummies.
I have seen this said ever since I have visited this website (had a previous account before this one). And I'm sure I'll keep seeing until the day I stop playing video games.
How good a game or mmorpg is, is really subjective. I'm happy with how some of the newest mmorpgs have turned out so I don't really share this sentiment. Of course I have never made any sort of ultimatum either.
I have seen this said ever since I have visited this website (had a previous account before this one). And I'm sure I'll keep seeing until the day I stop playing video games.
How good a game or mmorpg is, is really subjective. I'm happy with how some of the newest mmorpgs have turned out so I don't really share this sentiment. Of course I have never made any sort of ultimatum either.
It is also silly to make ultimatums that no devs will see or care about.
So if the next group of MMORPGs are not good (for the OP), and then a good one comes in 2015, i doubt the OP will keep his "promise" and refuse to play just because he made a silly post 2 years ago.
Year in and year out we are promised this and that from this Developers. And year and and year out they release absolute lack luster games our way. I first was snagged into this genre by Earth and Beyond, and while I know that was a pretty crappy game, it still was my first MMO and I fell in love. That love affair lasted to about 2009 (with various MMO's) and since then it just seems like MMO developers are releasing games that are even worse then before.
So I have said to myself, if this next group of MMO's (ESO, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or EQ2) fail to give me what I want or rather need in a game. It might, no it will, be time to go back to Consoles....
Has anyone else ever felt like this?
I already have moved back to consoles. But its not entirely for what you've said. I honestly just need variety from time to time. MMO's can't really deviate much without becoming a different genre anyway. So I go play some shooters or some regular RPGS. Skyrim was good for a bit. CoD was fun, I really got into zombies for awhile and had a group I could consistently hit around round 30 on. Just spice it up a little. MMO games have the problem of being really involved. So they end up being all you do for awhile, even if you TRY to mix up games a bit. Burnout is easy to come by when that happens.
I think that this is getting better, however. WoW made TONS of movement toward shorter playtimes and still getting things done. Dungeon finder, shorter level times, mob combination loot...all toward getting things done fast. It frees up your time. As more move into consoles (MMO games) you'll see this trend continue and that is a good thing. The industry has been killing itself for years with high time investment and burnout tearing people, not just from the individual game, but from the entire industry. We need the casual focus not because people do not have time to play...but because we need to do more with our time than just one thing or it gets old.
Honestly the games that have been coming out aren't that bad. The reason everything feels dull and same-y is because we've been doing nothing but playing one genre for too long. All platformers play the same, all shooters play the same, all RPGs even play the same. Yet there is less backlash for that in those than in MMO games. That is entirely because you can do each of those in one day and accomplish something in all of them but can only play one MMO that day if you intend to even begin gaining a level.
Its just how our minds work. It would help us all if we'd just admit that. The genre isn't crap, we're just burning out on the systems that make the genre work. We got addicted to the fun, and now we are growing so used to it that its wearing off. Do what all good junkies do and switch up your drug dummies.
This is the best quote ive seen in quite a while, well said m8
Year in and year out we are promised this and that from this Developers. And year and and year out they release absolute lack luster games our way. I first was snagged into this genre by Earth and Beyond, and while I know that was a pretty crappy game, it still was my first MMO and I fell in love. That love affair lasted to about 2009 (with various MMO's) and since then it just seems like MMO developers are releasing games that are even worse then before.
So I have said to myself, if this next group of MMO's (ESO, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or EQ2) fail to give me what I want or rather need in a game. It might, no it will, be time to go back to Consoles....
Has anyone else ever felt like this?
I already have moved back to consoles. But its not entirely for what you've said. I honestly just need variety from time to time. MMO's can't really deviate much without becoming a different genre anyway. So I go play some shooters or some regular RPGS. Skyrim was good for a bit. CoD was fun, I really got into zombies for awhile and had a group I could consistently hit around round 30 on. Just spice it up a little. MMO games have the problem of being really involved. So they end up being all you do for awhile, even if you TRY to mix up games a bit. Burnout is easy to come by when that happens.
I think that this is getting better, however. WoW made TONS of movement toward shorter playtimes and still getting things done. Dungeon finder, shorter level times, mob combination loot...all toward getting things done fast. It frees up your time. As more move into consoles (MMO games) you'll see this trend continue and that is a good thing. The industry has been killing itself for years with high time investment and burnout tearing people, not just from the individual game, but from the entire industry. We need the casual focus not because people do not have time to play...but because we need to do more with our time than just one thing or it gets old.
Honestly the games that have been coming out aren't that bad. The reason everything feels dull and same-y is because we've been doing nothing but playing one genre for too long. All platformers play the same, all shooters play the same, all RPGs even play the same. Yet there is less backlash for that in those than in MMO games. That is entirely because you can do each of those in one day and accomplish something in all of them but can only play one MMO that day if you intend to even begin gaining a level.
Its just how our minds work. It would help us all if we'd just admit that. The genre isn't crap, we're just burning out on the systems that make the genre work. We got addicted to the fun, and now we are growing so used to it that its wearing off. Do what all good junkies do and switch up your drug dummies.
So your saying we are feeling burned out because we have been playing the same systems all this time? Wow started to change it systems and their numbers are starting to fall for the first time in huge numbers. And all they have done is make the game fast like what you have suggested.
I think this is the state of how you feel about mmo's not me. As are as the op I will keep checking out new mmo's and if they are nothing special they get thrown to the bin in a much faster rate now. And I go back to single player games on pc or read more:)
I've been PC gaming since before some of you were born and I have no intention of stopping.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I think I am done with theme parks. It's simply a matter of personal taste, and I know that these types of MMO's don't hold my attention for more than a month or two anymore. However I don't expect any true revolutions in either type of MMORPG. I'm not sure it's even possible. I'd just be happy to see a few big budget (challenging) sandbox games produced that slightly exceeded the best of past efforts. It's been a virtual desert for over ten years now.
Wildstar - I don't understand the hype for this game at all. The last time I looked a few months ago it was an anime on steroids world with absolutely zero information given about game design or features. Maybe I need to check again.
EQ Next - I'm skeptical but interested.
Archeage - From my position some horrible design choices (steam/cyberpunk in a fantasy setting), but a lot of interesting features as well. And I actually don't mind questing now and then. I'll probably play it.
Originally posted by Mannish If you don't want to be disappointed then don't buy before you try. There are no mmos coming this year that will be worth playing. In the meantime stop playing these wow clones and try other types of games. Games like Age Of Wushu, Darkfall, Vanguard, Lineage 2, Eve and Final Fantasy XI.
Yeah. I tried Eve and it was a big disappointment. I would much rather play console games like Dishonored (which is a lot more fun than most MMOs i have played).
A console game will never be a replacement for a mmo. Its just a totally different experience that right now cant be had on a console. That may change this gen as consoles developers are now making mmos. If you tried Eve and did not like it then try something else.
I haven't been disappointed with any of the MMORPGs that I've played. I had fun in each one. So my answer is no.
Plus, I haven't bought a console system since my Colecovision, and I don't plan to buy one anytime soon. A PC provides all the gaming that I need, and then some.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
Originally posted by Mannish If you don't want to be disappointed then don't buy before you try. There are no mmos coming this year that will be worth playing. In the meantime stop playing these wow clones and try other types of games. Games like Age Of Wushu, Darkfall, Vanguard, Lineage 2, Eve and Final Fantasy XI.
Yeah. I tried Eve and it was a big disappointment. I would much rather play console games like Dishonored (which is a lot more fun than most MMOs i have played).
A console game will never be a replacement for a mmo. Its just a totally different experience that right now cant be had on a console. That may change this gen as consoles developers are now making mmos. If you tried Eve and did not like it then try something else.
Of course i tried something else. In fact, lots of other MMOs. Marvel Heroes, STO, DCUO, ... all better games (to me) and a lot more fun than Eve.
Hmm .. console games can replace MMOs. In fact, all entertainment are competing for my time. And yes, my statement still stands. I would rather spend my time playing Dishonored (before i finished the game, of course), than playing most MMOs.
Adding the qualifier only gives you the out; you don't really want to quit. If you're hungry enough, you'll find a way to give them just one more chance...again.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Roxtarr I've been PC gaming since before some of you were born and I have no intention of stopping.
I still have some computers that are older than some of the people here.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
I don't play consoles or haven't in years. MMORPG's (the new batches) always seems like the same boring stuff that's already been done with small twists. Their pacing bothers me a little as well (it gets old). Seems like every developer is trying to figure out how to make stuff take longer or how to make it cost more for me to play them. Only one I am currently playing is Eve and not all the time. Just logging on every now and then to make enough isk for a plex (only takes a day or two for me). Then just letting my account sit and train. Not costing me anything and unless the price of a plex goes to like 1 bill I'll probably just keep it going. It doesn't cost me anything. Not sure if I will play any others anytime soon or not, Doubtful. Though I read these forums and others just to see what all the chatter is about.
Originally posted by denshing Consoles... Really OP? MMO's could disappear altogether and I'd still go to the PC for my gaming fix.
Consoles have never been the answer for me either......The OP is right though...There are about 10 top titles schedules to come out in the next year or so, and if they are bad then I fear this genre is doomed......I'd be willing to guess that if this lot of games misses on the PC then mobile gaming might just explode.
So your saying we are feeling burned out because we have been playing the same systems all this time? Wow started to change it systems and their numbers are starting to fall for the first time in huge numbers. And all they have done is make the game fast like what you have suggested.
I think this is the state of how you feel about mmo's not me. As are as the op I will keep checking out new mmo's and if they are nothing special they get thrown to the bin in a much faster rate now. And I go back to single player games on pc or read more:)
That's hardly a fair thing to say about WoW. First of all, lets cut to the right of it and admit that it took the bloody thing just shy of a decade to start dropping. I do not honestly think anything they could have done would have helped prevent it. It fits, even, when you look at when the largest influx pf players came and when the largest loss was felt. If we pretend that there is an average (across the board, ignoring outliers) time a person can stand to do something before feeling the need to move on...it stands to reason that a ton of people would feel it at the same time considering a ton started playing it at the same time.
The problem with looking at warcrafts numbers is that we have no other game with such an explosive player growth in multiple markets to compare it to. So if you try to work statistics through it, you have to look at the general shape of the curve rather than the actual numbers it represents. A game that starts with 10 players, gains 10 in its first year and loses 5 in the second is showing the same trends as a game that has 30, gains 30 and loses 15. The second game "lost" more players, but has exactly the same trend in player loss as the first.
I think that if you look at it this way, warcraft is actually showing MUCH better figures for its lifetime than any other game on the market, and that stands to reason that its systems are doing precisely what they need to be. I haven't compiled data, (mostly because I only really started looking at this in this way) but I do recall much larger percentages in player loss at earlier times in other MMO's I've played. Within the same payment models, you can't use data from model adjustments because that skews the study. Obviously, a F2P conversion is going to show huge influx with nothing else to back it up. Hell, check the player levels as they rose when WoW did nothing more than allow F2P - level 20.
Now, you can actually track some of those games and find direct root/cause for player loss outside simple burnout. The infamous NGE, for clear example, nigh but killed its game and I'm certain many of those players had plenty of years left in them. I'll come back to this in a bit, I have things I need to do right this moment. Feel free to add more thoughts while I'm gone and I'll try to discuss with you and maybe embrace more of your side in the next post.
The problem with looking at warcrafts numbers is that we have no other game with such an explosive player growth in multiple markets to compare it to. So if you try to work statistics through it, you have to look at the general shape of the curve rather than the actual numbers it represents. A game that starts with 10 players, gains 10 in its first year and loses 5 in the second is showing the same trends as a game that has 30, gains 30 and loses 15. The second game "lost" more players, but has exactly the same trend in player loss as the first.
Of course we do. LoL ... although it is not a proper MMO.
Comments
I already have moved back to consoles. But its not entirely for what you've said. I honestly just need variety from time to time. MMO's can't really deviate much without becoming a different genre anyway. So I go play some shooters or some regular RPGS. Skyrim was good for a bit. CoD was fun, I really got into zombies for awhile and had a group I could consistently hit around round 30 on. Just spice it up a little. MMO games have the problem of being really involved. So they end up being all you do for awhile, even if you TRY to mix up games a bit. Burnout is easy to come by when that happens.
I think that this is getting better, however. WoW made TONS of movement toward shorter playtimes and still getting things done. Dungeon finder, shorter level times, mob combination loot...all toward getting things done fast. It frees up your time. As more move into consoles (MMO games) you'll see this trend continue and that is a good thing. The industry has been killing itself for years with high time investment and burnout tearing people, not just from the individual game, but from the entire industry. We need the casual focus not because people do not have time to play...but because we need to do more with our time than just one thing or it gets old.
Honestly the games that have been coming out aren't that bad. The reason everything feels dull and same-y is because we've been doing nothing but playing one genre for too long. All platformers play the same, all shooters play the same, all RPGs even play the same. Yet there is less backlash for that in those than in MMO games. That is entirely because you can do each of those in one day and accomplish something in all of them but can only play one MMO that day if you intend to even begin gaining a level.
Its just how our minds work. It would help us all if we'd just admit that. The genre isn't crap, we're just burning out on the systems that make the genre work. We got addicted to the fun, and now we are growing so used to it that its wearing off. Do what all good junkies do and switch up your drug dummies.
I have seen this said ever since I have visited this website (had a previous account before this one). And I'm sure I'll keep seeing until the day I stop playing video games.
How good a game or mmorpg is, is really subjective. I'm happy with how some of the newest mmorpgs have turned out so I don't really share this sentiment. Of course I have never made any sort of ultimatum either.
It is also silly to make ultimatums that no devs will see or care about.
So if the next group of MMORPGs are not good (for the OP), and then a good one comes in 2015, i doubt the OP will keep his "promise" and refuse to play just because he made a silly post 2 years ago.
This is the best quote ive seen in quite a while, well said m8
So your saying we are feeling burned out because we have been playing the same systems all this time? Wow started to change it systems and their numbers are starting to fall for the first time in huge numbers. And all they have done is make the game fast like what you have suggested.
I think this is the state of how you feel about mmo's not me. As are as the op I will keep checking out new mmo's and if they are nothing special they get thrown to the bin in a much faster rate now. And I go back to single player games on pc or read more:)
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I think I am done with theme parks. It's simply a matter of personal taste, and I know that these types of MMO's don't hold my attention for more than a month or two anymore. However I don't expect any true revolutions in either type of MMORPG. I'm not sure it's even possible. I'd just be happy to see a few big budget (challenging) sandbox games produced that slightly exceeded the best of past efforts. It's been a virtual desert for over ten years now.
Wildstar - I don't understand the hype for this game at all. The last time I looked a few months ago it was an anime on steroids world with absolutely zero information given about game design or features. Maybe I need to check again.
EQ Next - I'm skeptical but interested.
Archeage - From my position some horrible design choices (steam/cyberpunk in a fantasy setting), but a lot of interesting features as well. And I actually don't mind questing now and then. I'll probably play it.
A console game will never be a replacement for a mmo. Its just a totally different experience that right now cant be had on a console. That may change this gen as consoles developers are now making mmos. If you tried Eve and did not like it then try something else.
I haven't been disappointed with any of the MMORPGs that I've played. I had fun in each one. So my answer is no.
Plus, I haven't bought a console system since my Colecovision, and I don't plan to buy one anytime soon. A PC provides all the gaming that I need, and then some.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
Of course i tried something else. In fact, lots of other MMOs. Marvel Heroes, STO, DCUO, ... all better games (to me) and a lot more fun than Eve.
Hmm .. console games can replace MMOs. In fact, all entertainment are competing for my time. And yes, my statement still stands. I would rather spend my time playing Dishonored (before i finished the game, of course), than playing most MMOs.
Tinybina: Why qualify?
Ifnot
(vague events)
then
quit
endif
Adding the qualifier only gives you the out; you don't really want to quit. If you're hungry enough, you'll find a way to give them just one more chance...again.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I still have some computers that are older than some of the people here.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
I don't play consoles or haven't in years. MMORPG's (the new batches) always seems like the same boring stuff that's already been done with small twists. Their pacing bothers me a little as well (it gets old). Seems like every developer is trying to figure out how to make stuff take longer or how to make it cost more for me to play them. Only one I am currently playing is Eve and not all the time. Just logging on every now and then to make enough isk for a plex (only takes a day or two for me). Then just letting my account sit and train. Not costing me anything and unless the price of a plex goes to like 1 bill I'll probably just keep it going. It doesn't cost me anything. Not sure if I will play any others anytime soon or not, Doubtful. Though I read these forums and others just to see what all the chatter is about.
Consoles have never been the answer for me either......The OP is right though...There are about 10 top titles schedules to come out in the next year or so, and if they are bad then I fear this genre is doomed......I'd be willing to guess that if this lot of games misses on the PC then mobile gaming might just explode.
Push me away from MMO's ? Yes.
Not sure why you had to make it console related.
That's hardly a fair thing to say about WoW. First of all, lets cut to the right of it and admit that it took the bloody thing just shy of a decade to start dropping. I do not honestly think anything they could have done would have helped prevent it. It fits, even, when you look at when the largest influx pf players came and when the largest loss was felt. If we pretend that there is an average (across the board, ignoring outliers) time a person can stand to do something before feeling the need to move on...it stands to reason that a ton of people would feel it at the same time considering a ton started playing it at the same time.
The problem with looking at warcrafts numbers is that we have no other game with such an explosive player growth in multiple markets to compare it to. So if you try to work statistics through it, you have to look at the general shape of the curve rather than the actual numbers it represents. A game that starts with 10 players, gains 10 in its first year and loses 5 in the second is showing the same trends as a game that has 30, gains 30 and loses 15. The second game "lost" more players, but has exactly the same trend in player loss as the first.
I think that if you look at it this way, warcraft is actually showing MUCH better figures for its lifetime than any other game on the market, and that stands to reason that its systems are doing precisely what they need to be. I haven't compiled data, (mostly because I only really started looking at this in this way) but I do recall much larger percentages in player loss at earlier times in other MMO's I've played. Within the same payment models, you can't use data from model adjustments because that skews the study. Obviously, a F2P conversion is going to show huge influx with nothing else to back it up. Hell, check the player levels as they rose when WoW did nothing more than allow F2P - level 20.
Now, you can actually track some of those games and find direct root/cause for player loss outside simple burnout. The infamous NGE, for clear example, nigh but killed its game and I'm certain many of those players had plenty of years left in them. I'll come back to this in a bit, I have things I need to do right this moment. Feel free to add more thoughts while I'm gone and I'll try to discuss with you and maybe embrace more of your side in the next post.
Of course we do. LoL ... although it is not a proper MMO.