Originally posted by RudyRaccoon Having been playing various MMORPG's throughout the years with the most recent I've played being Star Wars The Old Republic, I've grown tried of playing something I have no friends in. I notice this thread [Link] talking about MMO's being too easy but in my opinion I think what really killed MMO's is the lack of friendship. I don't want to play with random people that probably never talk back and very likely I'll never see them again, it's not the same as playing with friends as I've always believed that games are more fun when you play with friends. I'm just fed up of being a lone wolf, level grinding all by myself.
Get in a clan/guild and team up with the fellow members. Within a couple of days you have found some you like more in your clan/guild than others and before you realize you see them as (in-game) friends and team up with them all the time
..or course, having some RL friends playing the game would be nice as well
It really isn't that simple though.
These days guilds are far more purpose driven then they used to be, mainly towards endgame progression. Most people join these guilds because there's a, 'spot', to fill. You may gain temporary friends if you can serve that need well but the minute you can't then that causes problems and your, 'friends', find someone who can. If your lucky your politely left out in the cold.
Of course there have always been these sorts of guilds in all sorts of MMOs since the beginning, and there isn't anything wrong in that type of play. I myself have participated in that sort of thing.
The issue I see is that most MMOs guilds these days are pretty much structured like that rather then having a greater variety of setups, which was truer in the old days.
Back in COH I remember teaming up randomly with a few people I happened to bump into when there was something that we couldn't take down on our own. Of course we all had a vested interest in socialising with each other to do this but the key was we needed each other and needing others was important, so you had to worry about your rep.
Now I didn't get on with everyone I met but the first guilds i joined was based on random meeting up and getting on with people. This led to a more permanent arrangement, based on exploring a game and each others company. How many MMO guilds these days does that happen in? Maybe some, but I bet it's a lot less then before due to the carrot and stick mentality of the devs and the changing playerbase.
This is the fallacy of relying someone else for your own fun. No one else is obliged to do it your way.
I would much rather solo, and enjoy the fun provided by the devs.
It's wrong to want to play with others and enjoy it more? I fail to see the fallacy here.
Um, are we on MMOrpg.com or did I lose my way?
The fallacy is not "want to play with someone". The fallacy is to need them to play the game your way, and your fun depends on on it.
And who says you need to play with anyone on a MMO? You didn't get the memo .. many MMO players solo, and only interact in AH. Some may even play MMOs like SP games.
BTW, while his place is called MMORPG.com, it covers LoL, WoT, and other online non-MMO games with their own forums no less. And most players probably don't care if a game is a proper MMO or not. It is not a big deal.
Even more than killing stuff with people. I hope you don't expect those games to change later on to cater to anti-social tastes. Do you?
Of course not. It is foolish to expect any changes. There are plenty of good solo games from other genres. If the MMO genre produces some (like the current market), i will be persuaded to spend some of my time here. If there is nothing i like, i will leave. It is not like the world has a lack of entertainment.
The fallacy is not "want to play with someone". The fallacy is to need them to play the game your way, and your fun depends on on it.
And who says you need to play with anyone on a MMO? You didn't get the memo .. many MMO players solo, and only interact in AH. Some may even play MMOs like SP games.
BTW, while his place is called MMORPG.com, it covers LoL, WoT, and other online non-MMO games with their own forums no less. And most players probably don't care if a game is a proper MMO or not. It is not a big deal.
I am really not sure what you're trying to say?
There's no point in grouping if the people involved do not play the game the same way. Raiders raid. RPers RP. Explorers explore. Yes, my fun depends on it. That's kinda logical. What exactly do you suggest, a raider, an RPer, and a crafter walk into a bar?
That's great, but I really do not expect to be bashed for wanting friends to group with on a site devoted to MMO's. If you like to solo that's your choice and I never bothered you. I am not sure why you have to jump on my post and say I am making fallacies because I like to find people to play with me in MMO's for God's sake. There is no fallacy in my post because I am discussing team activities that always depend on others to enjoy. You seem to have either no understanding of such a concept at all or you are just trolling. So go troll someone else.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
My first MMO was Vanila WoW, and I've played since then (off and on) for almost 8 years. The friendships and community forged make me complete nostalgic. I've made some great friends since then, especially during TBC, and it is these friendships that I will cherish and feel nostalgic for until I die.
WoW started to become a solo experience for me after WotLK, and especially in Mists of Pandaria. I've made "friends" in Cata, even meeting this one guy from my server for a Subway dinner (as a friend, I'm married!), but that friendship didn't last long at all. It has left a hole in my heart in a way because I log in now and hardly anyone gives a damn enough to say hi to me from my friends list, even if I've been away for months. If I was away before, like back in TBC, people would notice and care. Now? WoW is a single-player experience, you sit in a major city and queue for a dungeon or LFR and you don't have to interact with anyone. It's sad, really.
All MMOs that have come out after WoW are pretty much the same as WoW currently is. Sad, but true.
The fallacy is not "want to play with someone". The fallacy is to need them to play the game your way, and your fun depends on on it.
And who says you need to play with anyone on a MMO? You didn't get the memo .. many MMO players solo, and only interact in AH. Some may even play MMOs like SP games.
BTW, while his place is called MMORPG.com, it covers LoL, WoT, and other online non-MMO games with their own forums no less. And most players probably don't care if a game is a proper MMO or not. It is not a big deal.
I am really not sure what you're trying to say?
There's no point in grouping if the people involved do not play the game the same way. Raiders raid. RPers RP. Explorers explore. Yes, my fun depends on it. That's kinda logical. What exactly do you suggest, a raider, an RPer, and a crafter walk into a bar?
That's great, but I really do not expect to be bashed for wanting friends to group with on a site devoted to MMO's. If you like to solo that's your choice and I never bothered you. I am not sure why you have to jump on my post and say I am making fallacies because I like to find people to play with me in MMO's for God's sake. There is no fallacy in my post because I am discussing team activities that always depend on others to enjoy. You seem to have either no understanding of such a concept at all or you are just trolling. So go troll someone else.
You said .. in your original post "Never really found a group of people to do this with, though. Most guilds are extremely task oriented".
That is your fallacy ... try to rely on a group of people to "do this" with you. Whatever this is. Either play their way, or forget it. No one is obliged to do whatever "this" is.
WoW started to become a solo experience for me after WotLK, and especially in Mists of Pandaria. I've made "friends" in Cata, even meeting this one guy from my server for a Subway dinner (as a friend, I'm married!), but that friendship didn't last long at all. It has left a hole in my heart in a way because I log in now and hardly anyone gives a damn enough to say hi to me from my friends list, even if I've been away for months. If I was away before, like back in TBC, people would notice and care. Now? WoW is a single-player experience, you sit in a major city and queue for a dungeon or LFR and you don't have to interact with anyone. It's sad, really.
This is your problem. Unrealistic expectation of how people will act on the interact.
Just solo the game, and enjoy the content. If indeed someone comes along and have a fun group, enjoy it. Don't expect to make long term friends. They are nothing but a time sink anyway, and a group mate is just a LFD button away.
This is the fallacy of relying someone else for your own fun. No one else is obliged to do it your way.
I would much rather solo, and enjoy the fun provided by the devs.
You do realize that a feeling can't be a fallacy right?
If my fun is dependent on another person, then that's a feeling. It would be complete gibberish to call it a fallacy. It can be a lot of things, including sad, stupid, annoying, co-dependency but not a fallacy
Your self reliance is just as valid as a person not being able to enjoy a MMO without playing it with a friend. You clearly have the greater advantage when playing which is great but not everybody is going to feel that way, and your inability to grasp that is a fault that lies with you and not other people
I think my problem, coming from a pencil-and-paper RPG background is that I've always been the GM of my play groups, always the one creating and running the world. So it feels awkward and unnatural to be "just a player" and makes it very hard for me to enjoy the experience of playing with friends.
I wouldn't play mmos solo. I do things solo once in a while but if none of my friends are on voice coms I tend to log off, if none of them play the game anymore I quit with them.
I don't really play games just to play games. The social aspect of them is probably the most important part.
I think a lot of people who like to solo also like having friends in game.
Just because a player likes to solo, doesn't mean he is ignoring all the social aspects of the game. They may have friends playing, but not "with" them specifically. They may be chatting, but not in the group. They may be in a guild, but not doing guild activities.
And then when the time to do group content, they can and will.
Yes a single player game with an online chatbox has it merits just as you describe.
The first reason i stick with MMORPG because i can have a lots people to play with , no matter where they are.
And there are something social webs can't do but MMORPGs can, social games in web are games ask you to bring your friends in , not game where you make friends.
I better play a SPRPG than stuck in MMO instances without people to play with.
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon Having been playing various MMORPG's throughout the years with the most recent I've played being Star Wars The Old Republic, I've grown tried of playing something I have no friends in. I notice this thread [Link] talking about MMO's being too easy but in my opinion I think what really killed MMO's is the lack of friendship. I don't want to play with random people that probably never talk back and very likely I'll never see them again, it's not the same as playing with friends as I've always believed that games are more fun when you play with friends. I'm just fed up of being a lone wolf, level grinding all by myself.
No offense, but a large degree of that is in your control. Make Friends! Or, if you're bad at that, join a gaming group that you fit in with, and play games with them.
Social aspects in gaming are a 2 way street. GW2 shows this quite clearly. You have people who expect the game to do all the social legwork for them (which is unrealistic), and thus tend to complain that a game 'isn't social enough', or 'people don't talk (to me)', or a game has no community; all because that person makes no real effort to be social.
I know some MMO gamers have social anxieties, or may not have the best social skills, but 2 things will always remain true, regardless of whether your playing a game or hanging out in your own neighborhood. 1) You won't meet anyone new if you don't go out and talk to strangers. 2) You'll know less people over time if you don't make an effort to stay in touch, do things w/ your friends, or even make new ones / introduce them to your old ones.
In MMOs, one of the easiest ways to do this is via dungeons. I'm often talking to people I run dungeons with. I get to know the people I'm playing with, and I friend / stay in touch w/ the ones I have fun playing with. That doesn't mean that's the only place to meet people. I also meet people via questing, from helping newer players, PvP, etc. MMOs are built around playing with other people (even though many are heavily solo, they are still built around putting a lot of people in one place). Ultimately, putting a lot of people in one place is mostly all a game can do to be social, they can add mechanics to help incentivize people to initiate socially, but they can't really force it.
This is the fallacy of relying someone else for your own fun. No one else is obliged to do it your way.
I would much rather solo, and enjoy the fun provided by the devs.
You do realize that a feeling can't be a fallacy right?
If my fun is dependent on another person, then that's a feeling. It would be complete gibberish to call it a fallacy. It can be a lot of things, including sad, stupid, annoying, co-dependency but not a fallacy
Your self reliance is just as valid as a person not being able to enjoy a MMO without playing it with a friend. You clearly have the greater advantage when playing which is great but not everybody is going to feel that way, and your inability to grasp that is a fault that lies with you and not other people
That is just semantics. If i call it your "wishful thinking", is it more accurate?
This is the fallacy of relying someone else for your own fun. No one else is obliged to do it your way.
I would much rather solo, and enjoy the fun provided by the devs.
You do realize that a feeling can't be a fallacy right?
If my fun is dependent on another person, then that's a feeling. It would be complete gibberish to call it a fallacy. It can be a lot of things, including sad, stupid, annoying, co-dependency but not a fallacy
Your self reliance is just as valid as a person not being able to enjoy a MMO without playing it with a friend. You clearly have the greater advantage when playing which is great but not everybody is going to feel that way, and your inability to grasp that is a fault that lies with you and not other people
That is just semantics. If i call it your "wishful thinking", is it more accurate?
A lot more accurate, considering finding somebody completely on the same page, even if you play the same game nearly impossible. I should know
No offense, but a large degree of that is in your control. Make Friends!
I'm curious if this sort of opening statement actually influences people to go out and interact with strangers. Personally, I just don't see how it helps create a welcoming environment.
This is the fallacy of relying someone else for your own fun. No one else is obliged to do it your way.
I would much rather solo, and enjoy the fun provided by the devs.
You do realize that a feeling can't be a fallacy right?
If my fun is dependent on another person, then that's a feeling. It would be complete gibberish to call it a fallacy. It can be a lot of things, including sad, stupid, annoying, co-dependency but not a fallacy
Your self reliance is just as valid as a person not being able to enjoy a MMO without playing it with a friend. You clearly have the greater advantage when playing which is great but not everybody is going to feel that way, and your inability to grasp that is a fault that lies with you and not other people
That is just semantics. If i call it your "wishful thinking", is it more accurate?
A lot more accurate, considering finding somebody completely on the same page, even if you play the same game nearly impossible. I should know
Yeh. That is why it is 100x more fun for me to solo. Other people can be trading partners, occasionally groupmates, or even target for pvp. But i can have fun on my own and depends on no one, and it is the way i prefer.
Comments
Indeed.
MMOs are crap games without people to play with.
It really isn't that simple though.
These days guilds are far more purpose driven then they used to be, mainly towards endgame progression. Most people join these guilds because there's a, 'spot', to fill. You may gain temporary friends if you can serve that need well but the minute you can't then that causes problems and your, 'friends', find someone who can. If your lucky your politely left out in the cold.
Of course there have always been these sorts of guilds in all sorts of MMOs since the beginning, and there isn't anything wrong in that type of play. I myself have participated in that sort of thing.
The issue I see is that most MMOs guilds these days are pretty much structured like that rather then having a greater variety of setups, which was truer in the old days.
Back in COH I remember teaming up randomly with a few people I happened to bump into when there was something that we couldn't take down on our own. Of course we all had a vested interest in socialising with each other to do this but the key was we needed each other and needing others was important, so you had to worry about your rep.
Now I didn't get on with everyone I met but the first guilds i joined was based on random meeting up and getting on with people. This led to a more permanent arrangement, based on exploring a game and each others company. How many MMO guilds these days does that happen in? Maybe some, but I bet it's a lot less then before due to the carrot and stick mentality of the devs and the changing playerbase.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
The fallacy is not "want to play with someone". The fallacy is to need them to play the game your way, and your fun depends on on it.
And who says you need to play with anyone on a MMO? You didn't get the memo .. many MMO players solo, and only interact in AH. Some may even play MMOs like SP games.
BTW, while his place is called MMORPG.com, it covers LoL, WoT, and other online non-MMO games with their own forums no less. And most players probably don't care if a game is a proper MMO or not. It is not a big deal.
Of course not. It is foolish to expect any changes. There are plenty of good solo games from other genres. If the MMO genre produces some (like the current market), i will be persuaded to spend some of my time here. If there is nothing i like, i will leave. It is not like the world has a lack of entertainment.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I am really not sure what you're trying to say?
There's no point in grouping if the people involved do not play the game the same way. Raiders raid. RPers RP. Explorers explore. Yes, my fun depends on it. That's kinda logical. What exactly do you suggest, a raider, an RPer, and a crafter walk into a bar?
That's great, but I really do not expect to be bashed for wanting friends to group with on a site devoted to MMO's. If you like to solo that's your choice and I never bothered you. I am not sure why you have to jump on my post and say I am making fallacies because I like to find people to play with me in MMO's for God's sake. There is no fallacy in my post because I am discussing team activities that always depend on others to enjoy. You seem to have either no understanding of such a concept at all or you are just trolling. So go troll someone else.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
My first MMO was Vanila WoW, and I've played since then (off and on) for almost 8 years. The friendships and community forged make me complete nostalgic. I've made some great friends since then, especially during TBC, and it is these friendships that I will cherish and feel nostalgic for until I die.
WoW started to become a solo experience for me after WotLK, and especially in Mists of Pandaria. I've made "friends" in Cata, even meeting this one guy from my server for a Subway dinner (as a friend, I'm married!), but that friendship didn't last long at all. It has left a hole in my heart in a way because I log in now and hardly anyone gives a damn enough to say hi to me from my friends list, even if I've been away for months. If I was away before, like back in TBC, people would notice and care. Now? WoW is a single-player experience, you sit in a major city and queue for a dungeon or LFR and you don't have to interact with anyone. It's sad, really.
All MMOs that have come out after WoW are pretty much the same as WoW currently is. Sad, but true.
I agree with you, OP.
You said .. in your original post "Never really found a group of people to do this with, though. Most guilds are extremely task oriented".
That is your fallacy ... try to rely on a group of people to "do this" with you. Whatever this is. Either play their way, or forget it. No one is obliged to do whatever "this" is.
This is your problem. Unrealistic expectation of how people will act on the interact.
Just solo the game, and enjoy the content. If indeed someone comes along and have a fun group, enjoy it. Don't expect to make long term friends. They are nothing but a time sink anyway, and a group mate is just a LFD button away.
You do realize that a feeling can't be a fallacy right?
If my fun is dependent on another person, then that's a feeling. It would be complete gibberish to call it a fallacy. It can be a lot of things, including sad, stupid, annoying, co-dependency but not a fallacy
Your self reliance is just as valid as a person not being able to enjoy a MMO without playing it with a friend. You clearly have the greater advantage when playing which is great but not everybody is going to feel that way, and your inability to grasp that is a fault that lies with you and not other people
I think my problem, coming from a pencil-and-paper RPG background is that I've always been the GM of my play groups, always the one creating and running the world. So it feels awkward and unnatural to be "just a player" and makes it very hard for me to enjoy the experience of playing with friends.
I wouldn't play mmos solo. I do things solo once in a while but if none of my friends are on voice coms I tend to log off, if none of them play the game anymore I quit with them.
I don't really play games just to play games. The social aspect of them is probably the most important part.
Yes a single player game with an online chatbox has it merits just as you describe.
The first reason i stick with MMORPG because i can have a lots people to play with , no matter where they are.
And there are something social webs can't do but MMORPGs can, social games in web are games ask you to bring your friends in , not game where you make friends.
I better play a SPRPG than stuck in MMO instances without people to play with.
No offense, but a large degree of that is in your control. Make Friends! Or, if you're bad at that, join a gaming group that you fit in with, and play games with them.
Social aspects in gaming are a 2 way street. GW2 shows this quite clearly. You have people who expect the game to do all the social legwork for them (which is unrealistic), and thus tend to complain that a game 'isn't social enough', or 'people don't talk (to me)', or a game has no community; all because that person makes no real effort to be social.
I know some MMO gamers have social anxieties, or may not have the best social skills, but 2 things will always remain true, regardless of whether your playing a game or hanging out in your own neighborhood. 1) You won't meet anyone new if you don't go out and talk to strangers. 2) You'll know less people over time if you don't make an effort to stay in touch, do things w/ your friends, or even make new ones / introduce them to your old ones.
In MMOs, one of the easiest ways to do this is via dungeons. I'm often talking to people I run dungeons with. I get to know the people I'm playing with, and I friend / stay in touch w/ the ones I have fun playing with. That doesn't mean that's the only place to meet people. I also meet people via questing, from helping newer players, PvP, etc. MMOs are built around playing with other people (even though many are heavily solo, they are still built around putting a lot of people in one place). Ultimately, putting a lot of people in one place is mostly all a game can do to be social, they can add mechanics to help incentivize people to initiate socially, but they can't really force it.
That is just semantics. If i call it your "wishful thinking", is it more accurate?
You can't if you want to play a Star Trek RPG. There is no such SPRPG. Why do you think i play STO? To make friends?
A lot more accurate, considering finding somebody completely on the same page, even if you play the same game nearly impossible. I should know
I'm curious if this sort of opening statement actually influences people to go out and interact with strangers. Personally, I just don't see how it helps create a welcoming environment.
Yeh. That is why it is 100x more fun for me to solo. Other people can be trading partners, occasionally groupmates, or even target for pvp. But i can have fun on my own and depends on no one, and it is the way i prefer.