Originally posted by Sithos I do NOT want to see an auction house in this game. EC tunnel was one of the absolute best places for social interaction in any game I have ever played.
FFXIV 1.0 tried to eliminate the AH and failed. Not worth it. Few people have time to sit around and sell and still try to play the game ...
To the OP, I agree with what you say except the story part. I get what you are saying about the story driving a linear progression, so fine .. elminate that. But you can still have a great story without driving everything. FFXI had great story, but those had almost nothing to do with leveling. You had to grind catch up with the story, but it was great.
Don't ditch a good story - just don't make it the only way to level...
Why do people want instanced dungeons? Go play Skyrim if you want a dungeon all to yourself.
This.
And to the people say "Well what about a LITTLE instancing!" If your game is designed well you should never need an instance. And all MMOs in the past that started with a LITTLE instancing just got lazy and used it for everything.
Originally posted by Sithos I do NOT want to see an auction house in this game. EC tunnel was one of the absolute best places for social interaction in any game I have ever played.
FFXIV 1.0 tried to eliminate the AH and failed. Not worth it. Few people have time to sit around and sell and still try to play the game ...
There are other options than global auction houses. Player houses, player vendors, ect. All would be much better than an auction house. FFXIV had a lot of great ideas they should have stuck with, but they didn't execute them well.
i'm not a huge fan of "over instancing" either, but i'm also not looking forward to returning to the days of "Camp Check!". Maybe with enough open dungeons and ones that are epic in size it won't be as much of a problem.
Why do people want instanced dungeons? Go play Skyrim if you want a dungeon all to yourself.
Instanced dungeons are not needed, however to have any raids at all you need to either accept instances or come up with a new way to do it. I.E raid bosses are trigger spawned and not static. You do not need instances if you want raids if they do it right.
Why do people want instanced dungeons? Go play Skyrim if you want a dungeon all to yourself.
This.
And to the people say "Well what about a LITTLE instancing!" If your game is designed well you should never need an instance. And all MMOs in the past that started with a LITTLE instancing just got lazy and used it for everything.
the first mmo's had zero instancing. I agree with you on the if designed well not needing instancing thing. The original mmo's worked fantastically well and every dungeon was public.
You can thank SOE for the curse of instances. LDoN
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Originally posted by Rorrin i'm not a huge fan of "over instancing" either, but i'm also not looking forward to returning to the days of "Camp Check!". Maybe with enough open dungeons and ones that are epic in size it won't be as much of a problem.
EQ had camps because zones were small and overcrowded they were designed for 50 people but had over 100 in the zone. If you look at games like Vanguard with HUGE dungeons that is where I hope EQN takes it.
Originally posted by Rorrin i'm not a huge fan of "over instancing" either, but i'm also not looking forward to returning to the days of "Camp Check!". Maybe with enough open dungeons and ones that are epic in size it won't be as much of a problem.
It's not a "one or the other" type deal. You can have an instanceless game without the boss camping of old EQ. Quite easily. Many games have done it.
Why do people want instanced dungeons? Go play Skyrim if you want a dungeon all to yourself.
This.
And to the people say "Well what about a LITTLE instancing!" If your game is designed well you should never need an instance. And all MMOs in the past that started with a LITTLE instancing just got lazy and used it for everything.
the first mmo's had zero instancing. I agree with you on the if designed well not needing instancing thing. The original mmo's worked fantastically well and every dungeon was public.
You can thank SOE for the curse of instances. LDoN
EQ had instnaces before LDoN. About a year before it Plane of Time raids were instanced. EQ started the dungeon instancing with LDoN but quickly went away from it. Now group missions are instanced, but generally you camp/xp in open zones.
Instancing in EQ was a technical issue they had to do it. The game engine is 15 years old using code programmers don't even use anymore.
If you played EQ before POP open world raids were a good thing until another guild killed it before you and now you didn't get to kill the mob and it had a 5 day respawn.
I'm horrible at grammar but you're list shows all the things you don't want small map etc. Problem one topic is no fae! So do you want no fae or going along the lines of how your main topics are you wish fae to be in it. It reminds me of the college humor video of the grammar nazi spoof; dangling participle.
Yea, I'd like some details on what it's about, I have this vision that it's going to be wow graphics and web based gameplay. That would be epic sad, what they need to do is something original.
The single most overrated thing in MMORPG is that of no zoning. If having zoning helps the game run better, than have zoning. i would MUCH rather have EQ1's zoning but with huge zone lines than modern games where there are clearly separate zones, and you are funneled between one or two entrance points to get to them.
Everyone ITT saying they want instancing gone are going to be crying/begging for it back when it's near impossible to get any good gear drops due to camping.
I do like zones like the old EQ did and GW2 does now.. Sometimes a seamless world makes it harder for a dev to transfer a character from one zone to another.. What I mean here for example take Dreadlands.. To go from that zone to neighboring ones would be harder to draw, especially if you are moving from an open land zone to an interior castle like KC.. I never measured it, but if you are in Dreadlands KC is for example 200 x 200.. but once you zone in to KC, the area is MUCH bigger then what Dreadlands implies it is.. This gives the devs freedom to "fudge" on reality.. Can you imagine how much of a bitch it would be to seamless draw the swamp, and both upper and lower guk? Is it even possible?
No more instancing, unless it's like ONE instanced room for a quest NPC.. Learn to play well with others, or don't play at all I hope that EQN allows for "soft" grouping like GW2 does.. I also don't want to see the number of drops from mobs.. This is crazy how bad STUFF is passed out in modern day MMO's.. I'ts like asking for candy at Halloween, everyone gets some at every door.. Really.. you loot a wolf and find a +4 Uber Sword of death... ????? Who came up with this crazy logic.. I know it's fantasy, but geeesh.. I think even GW2 has too many magic drops by mobs..
Gear needs to be reasonably incremental in growth.. With all the crazy magic drops in games today, Players become GODS by max level ONE SHOTTING everything.. I don't want a max level character being 2,000x more powerful then a newbie.. Back in the day if you found something with +2 or +4 you were in heaven.. SHIT.. look at WoW now, items now have +500 stat bonus or more.. Just crazy..
Absolutely no more quest story lines.. I don't mind an epic type quest for a special item(s).. I am open tho to having a larger number of bounty reward NPC.. Bring me 10 wolf hides and receive 10 gold, 50XP.. Keep it simple..
Originally posted by Asamof Everyone ITT saying they want instancing gone are going to be crying/begging for it back when it's near impossible to get any good gear drops due to camping.
I don't know anything about how EQN's drops are going to work, but this post here just shows how trapped inside the box most players are when thinking about MMO's.
WoW basically just gave the magic item drops (in the open world) to any number of mobs. Why can't you do that with EQN? Because EQ had named mobs 14 years ago that dropped the best loot?
Why not have certain (again many different, but in different dungeons or areas) mobs drop the crafting materials required to make the best gear available to you at a certain level?
Why not walk up to a blacksmith NPC and say "I don't have much gold, but I am an tough adventurer, is there some service I can perform for you for a new sword?"
These are all game mechanics that are already in use.
It was the brownies for me, man they drove me up the wall side ways screaming! Running around as a Ogre warrior getting the beans kicked out of my family jewels by a tiny little shrimp.
I believe the "we" is either the royal "we" or instead, "we here at the site" rather than implying that everyone that glimpses at MMORPG.com is now part of the hive mind. Which granted, would be cool.
How do you make a big world without it lagging or crashing without breaking it up in smaller areas? But it would be nice it just takes longer to load I guess. It's nice having dungeons in the open world but there just going to be people there who camp the spawn and you won't be able to complete the quest.
Meh, other then a big world that doesn't focus on "instant travel" outside of a couple magic classes spells that take a long time to learn/have a large cool down, not to huge for most of these.
I liked the zones system and the variety of each continents zones. Kunark would generally be quiet for the most part since Iksar where pretty hard to play, and everyone already had devoted characters. Freeport would be trade spam and a hangout spot for players with the tunnel, etc., etc.
Not to mention when zones had unique traits or things to know about them. Hell, even stuff like "If you go this way you're going to fight 30 weak mobs and/or cause a mob train" or "A pretty tough mob spawns there, and will probably murder you if you blindly run there" added to making zones different.
Mushing all that together would make areas just seem like "another place" that you might have glanced at the name for 3 seconds.
As far as races, I could do without the stuff like cat people that they put in, but guess it's in there for good, and not to far off form lizard people anyways.
Why do people want instanced dungeons? Go play Skyrim if you want a dungeon all to yourself.
Instanced dungeons are not needed, however to have any raids at all you need to either accept instances or come up with a new way to do it. I.E raid bosses are trigger spawned and not static. You do not need instances if you want raids if they do it right.
Plenty of MMOs have done raids without instancing. DAoC for instance.
I'd add "no absolutely horrible character models / faces."
EQ2 had and still has IMO the absolutely most hideous player models in existence.
Absolutely agree. I don't always judge a game by it's graphics, but when I do... I tend to think I was justified afterward. EQ2 character models look like they could have come from the cast of Robot Chicken action figures - so plastic and shiny as to be horribly unappealing to me. That said, I think the Forgelight Engine is gorgeous and would be surprised to see EQN not look great.
Originally posted by Asamof Everyone ITT saying they want instancing gone are going to be crying/begging for it back when it's near impossible to get any good gear drops due to camping.
And people like you who have no grasp of game design and cannot imagine an MMO without instancing, will realize that good MMOs can be designed not to need instancing. Stop picturing WoW minus instances. It's stupid.
Seeing the "No Fae" point underlines the quality of this list of "demands". As opinion, I don't mind, we all have one. I just hope nobody from EQN team thinks this is what "we" want. That list is only what one random whimsical person wants.
PS: For god's sake, do keep the instancing in, at least for PvE dungeons. Else I won't even bother trying this game.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
PS: For god's sake, do keep the instancing in, at least for PvE dungeons. Else I won't even bother trying this game.
Good, enjoy a different game. If you would rather play singleplayer games, have at them. You have many choices. Though there seem to be no logical reasons to fear an open MMO.
Comments
FFXIV 1.0 tried to eliminate the AH and failed. Not worth it. Few people have time to sit around and sell and still try to play the game ...
To the OP, I agree with what you say except the story part. I get what you are saying about the story driving a linear progression, so fine .. elminate that. But you can still have a great story without driving everything. FFXI had great story, but those had almost nothing to do with leveling. You had to grind catch up with the story, but it was great.
Don't ditch a good story - just don't make it the only way to level...
This.
And to the people say "Well what about a LITTLE instancing!" If your game is designed well you should never need an instance. And all MMOs in the past that started with a LITTLE instancing just got lazy and used it for everything.
There are other options than global auction houses. Player houses, player vendors, ect. All would be much better than an auction house. FFXIV had a lot of great ideas they should have stuck with, but they didn't execute them well.
Instanced dungeons are not needed, however to have any raids at all you need to either accept instances or come up with a new way to do it. I.E raid bosses are trigger spawned and not static. You do not need instances if you want raids if they do it right.
the first mmo's had zero instancing. I agree with you on the if designed well not needing instancing thing. The original mmo's worked fantastically well and every dungeon was public.
You can thank SOE for the curse of instances. LDoN
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
EQ had camps because zones were small and overcrowded they were designed for 50 people but had over 100 in the zone. If you look at games like Vanguard with HUGE dungeons that is where I hope EQN takes it.
It's not a "one or the other" type deal. You can have an instanceless game without the boss camping of old EQ. Quite easily. Many games have done it.
EQ had instnaces before LDoN. About a year before it Plane of Time raids were instanced. EQ started the dungeon instancing with LDoN but quickly went away from it. Now group missions are instanced, but generally you camp/xp in open zones.
Instancing in EQ was a technical issue they had to do it. The game engine is 15 years old using code programmers don't even use anymore.
If you played EQ before POP open world raids were a good thing until another guild killed it before you and now you didn't get to kill the mob and it had a 5 day respawn.
I'm horrible at grammar but you're list shows all the things you don't want small map etc. Problem one topic is no fae! So do you want no fae or going along the lines of how your main topics are you wish fae to be in it. It reminds me of the college humor video of the grammar nazi spoof; dangling participle.
Yea, I'd like some details on what it's about, I have this vision that it's going to be wow graphics and web based gameplay. That would be epic sad, what they need to do is something original.
The single most overrated thing in MMORPG is that of no zoning. If having zoning helps the game run better, than have zoning. i would MUCH rather have EQ1's zoning but with huge zone lines than modern games where there are clearly separate zones, and you are funneled between one or two entrance points to get to them.
Good list, BUT..
I do like zones like the old EQ did and GW2 does now.. Sometimes a seamless world makes it harder for a dev to transfer a character from one zone to another.. What I mean here for example take Dreadlands.. To go from that zone to neighboring ones would be harder to draw, especially if you are moving from an open land zone to an interior castle like KC.. I never measured it, but if you are in Dreadlands KC is for example 200 x 200.. but once you zone in to KC, the area is MUCH bigger then what Dreadlands implies it is.. This gives the devs freedom to "fudge" on reality.. Can you imagine how much of a bitch it would be to seamless draw the swamp, and both upper and lower guk? Is it even possible?
No more instancing, unless it's like ONE instanced room for a quest NPC.. Learn to play well with others, or don't play at all
I hope that EQN allows for "soft" grouping like GW2 does.. I also don't want to see the number of drops from mobs.. This is crazy how bad STUFF is passed out in modern day MMO's.. I'ts like asking for candy at Halloween, everyone gets some at every door.. Really.. you loot a wolf and find a +4 Uber Sword of death... ????? Who came up with this crazy logic.. I know it's fantasy, but geeesh.. I think even GW2 has too many magic drops by mobs..
Gear needs to be reasonably incremental in growth.. With all the crazy magic drops in games today, Players become GODS by max level ONE SHOTTING everything.. I don't want a max level character being 2,000x more powerful then a newbie.. Back in the day if you found something with +2 or +4 you were in heaven.. SHIT.. look at WoW now, items now have +500 stat bonus or more.. Just crazy..
Absolutely no more quest story lines.. I don't mind an epic type quest for a special item(s).. I am open tho to having a larger number of bounty reward NPC.. Bring me 10 wolf hides and receive 10 gold, 50XP.. Keep it simple..
I don't know anything about how EQN's drops are going to work, but this post here just shows how trapped inside the box most players are when thinking about MMO's.
WoW basically just gave the magic item drops (in the open world) to any number of mobs. Why can't you do that with EQN? Because EQ had named mobs 14 years ago that dropped the best loot?
Why not have certain (again many different, but in different dungeons or areas) mobs drop the crafting materials required to make the best gear available to you at a certain level?
Why not walk up to a blacksmith NPC and say "I don't have much gold, but I am an tough adventurer, is there some service I can perform for you for a new sword?"
These are all game mechanics that are already in use.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Meh, other then a big world that doesn't focus on "instant travel" outside of a couple magic classes spells that take a long time to learn/have a large cool down, not to huge for most of these.
I liked the zones system and the variety of each continents zones. Kunark would generally be quiet for the most part since Iksar where pretty hard to play, and everyone already had devoted characters. Freeport would be trade spam and a hangout spot for players with the tunnel, etc., etc.
Not to mention when zones had unique traits or things to know about them. Hell, even stuff like "If you go this way you're going to fight 30 weak mobs and/or cause a mob train" or "A pretty tough mob spawns there, and will probably murder you if you blindly run there" added to making zones different.
Mushing all that together would make areas just seem like "another place" that you might have glanced at the name for 3 seconds.
As far as races, I could do without the stuff like cat people that they put in, but guess it's in there for good, and not to far off form lizard people anyways.
Plenty of MMOs have done raids without instancing. DAoC for instance.
And people like you who have no grasp of game design and cannot imagine an MMO without instancing, will realize that good MMOs can be designed not to need instancing. Stop picturing WoW minus instances. It's stupid.
Seeing the "No Fae" point underlines the quality of this list of "demands". As opinion, I don't mind, we all have one. I just hope nobody from EQN team thinks this is what "we" want. That list is only what one random whimsical person wants.
PS: For god's sake, do keep the instancing in, at least for PvE dungeons. Else I won't even bother trying this game.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Good, enjoy a different game. If you would rather play singleplayer games, have at them. You have many choices. Though there seem to be no logical reasons to fear an open MMO.
5 things I do not want to see in EQN
1. Craft all button
2. ! over npcs heads
3 any kind of arrow pointing me where to go on the map
4 any type of automatic grouping system
5 and damn sure nothing at all to do with F2P or anything that would attract those players since they are the worst thing to happen to MMOs ever.