"That is the motive of DLC/Microtransactions, they take stuff that would otherwise be included IN the game itself, that you could actually PLAY for and ask for your credit card instead."
This has been the whole point of the changes we have seen. The introduction of the cash shop into MMO's, the creation of an online shop like Steam that integrates the shop with the games on your PC, the gradual shift to all updates being done by the online shop's client, the integration of a friends social network, bringing in modding to the store.
The aim is to have it all under one roof, the online shops roof and slowly ensuring there will be no gaming outside of that shop's market. Currently we have a handful of such online stores competing for first place and different platforms make it hard for one online shop to suit all. But the monetisation will just keep marching on, the sky is the limit as far as that's concerned.
That actually is NOT the point. Why? Because you get money from a much SMALLER group of players, although you get more in total.
The point is to let the players who are willing to pay more (whales) to pay a lot more, and at the same time, expand the player base by letting a lot of players pay for free. This is classical "price discrimination" (with some variation) in economics.
And steam is a good thing. Buying, playing, organizing, and talking about games have been made very convenient.
F2P ruins the integrity of the game. That we know is a fact but the thing is that people like having things at their disposal such as a cash shop for the easy win. Anything complex and something that requires effort doesn't work for this generation of gamers. They like the " I WIn " button because it gives them a sense of satisfaction.
In the next few years we will all have to make a decision about whether we going to play "single player" games that use a cash shop that sells dlc after launch. Already nearly every single player game on Steam and Origin has dlc, how long before that content becomes needed rather than a preference? This cash shop monetisation of your gameplay is going to become ubiquitous, you will not be able to avoid it, perhaps indie gaming will be behind the curve, but none of the big players will let themselves be left behind. Like you I will preferentially select those games that do not make you require to pay after launch. But I do not feel there will be enough of us who will, the tide of new players and players from new markets will wash those principles of gaming away.
I pick and choose what I do with games now and always will. If the DLC adds significantly to the game and comes out long enough after the game that it's clear it wasn't just in-game content that was held back (Skyrim comes to mind as a game that did it right), then I might buy it. I might not. For Skyrim, I bought all three expansions, but none of the skin packs, etc.
However, if it gets to the point where I'm required to buy things I don't want to buy, then I just won't play that game. If it becomes all games, I'll just stop playing games. I don't understand people who are so fanatical about staring at a computer screen that they can't imagine finding something else to do.
I play games because they're fun. When they stop being fun, I'll stop playing them.
In the next few years we will all have to make a decision about whether we going to play "single player" games that use a cash shop that sells dlc after launch. Already nearly every single player game on Steam and Origin has dlc, how long before that content becomes needed rather than a preference? This cash shop monetisation of your gameplay is going to become ubiquitous, you will not be able to avoid it, perhaps indie gaming will be behind the curve, but none of the big players will let themselves be left behind. Like you I will preferentially select those games that do not make you require to pay after launch. But I do not feel there will be enough of us who will, the tide of new players and players from new markets will wash those principles of gaming away.
I pick and choose what I do with games now and always will. If the DLC adds significantly to the game and comes out long enough after the game that it's clear it wasn't just in-game content that was held back (Skyrim comes to mind as a game that did it right), then I might buy it. I might not. For Skyrim, I bought all three expansions, but none of the skin packs, etc.
However, if it gets to the point where I'm required to buy things I don't want to buy, then I just won't play that game. If it becomes all games, I'll just stop playing games. I don't understand people who are so fanatical about staring at a computer screen that they can't imagine finding something else to do.
I play games because they're fun. When they stop being fun, I'll stop playing them.
I did exactly what you did, Skyrim dlc apart from skins, got the lot. They use a good model though, what about Dragon Age? DA shows you how it will end up, dlc is held back. Also if you look at what is being offered in many games, say Batman as an example it is skins and weapons, again this points to the future. So for now we can pick and choose, it is what changes will come down the line that concern me. And yes, there are other things in life, already I don't play MMO's as much as I used to because I do not think they are as good as they used to be. Things change and opting out is a perfectly valid response.
I have no preference for any payment model. I just look at what I get for my money.
P2P just sets the bar really high for me, so there is a smaller chance that I will play. Especially now with all the B2P and F2P titles out there. It has to be extremely good or it is just a setting that I really want to play in.
With F2P I will check the restrictions first and how it will affect gameplay. As example, I hate too small inventory/bank space and if that is the case, I am going to check first what it costs to increase this.
With B2P so far with MMO's I didn't have a bad experience.
This was for MMO's. For other games, I will never accept forced online anymore. Thanks to EA's SimCity. Apart from that it is the planned DLC that determines if I buy the base game. Sometimes it is just obvious that the basegame is hollowed out in favour of more DLC. Then I just want to give that gamecompany the finger.
I do not think the gaming market established by online stores has no benefit for players, they certainly do have benefits for us. But lets be clear why they are there, they benefit the store and the gaming industry first and foremost.
From the increasing moneterisation of content as dlc to the security features of online play it is all about what the industry gets out of it. At the same time we find it convenient to use of course.
Certainly F2P shows the problems with creating a MMO that needs you to use the cash shop. But this is a matter of stages, and what the punters (that's us) are prepared to put up with at each stage.
We were not prepared to put up with cash shops, now they are everywhere. We are not prepared to put up with a cash shop where you need to buy items to play. Guess where that's going? It is the whale model for now, but in the future it will be all of us. And the studies players have posted on here have said that between 1% and 50% of players in a F2P MMO pay. I would suggest it is already changing, already a larger proportion of the player base are paying and you are seeing this through the eyes of someone who was there with F2P from the start. So it is hard for you to accept that more are paying now. However I believe the baulk of income in a F2P MMO comes from whales and will for some years to come.
I do not think the gaming market established by online stores has no benefit for players, they certainly do have benefits for us. But lets be clear why they are there, they benefit the store and the gaming industry first and foremost.
From the increasing moneterisation of content as dlc to the security features of online play it is all about what the industry gets out of it. At the same time we find it convenient to use of course.
Certainly F2P shows the problems with creating a MMO that needs you to use the cash shop. But this is a matter of stages, and what the punters (that's us) are prepared to put up with at each stage.
We were not prepared to put up with cash shops, now they are everywhere. We are not prepared to put up with a cash shop where you need to buy items to play. Guess where that's going? It is the whale model for now, but in the future it will be all of us. And the studies players have posted on here have said that between 1% and 50% of players in a F2P MMO pay. I would suggest it is already changing, already a larger proportion of the player base are paying and you are seeing this through the eyes of someone who was there with F2P from the start. So it is hard for you to accept that more are paying now. However I believe the baulk of income in a F2P MMO comes from whales and will for some years to come.
Markets are always about win-win. Obviously no company will put up an online store, not a trivial engineering endeavor, if there is no benefit for them. At the same time, if there is no benefit for the customer, no one will use it. Hence, it is wrong to assume there is a "first and foremost" benefit. It is always about mutual benefit.
Oh i don't dispute that more are paying. However, it is about competition. As long as there are other free alternatives, and as long as devs want to tap into a large audience, free will be here to stay. I highly doubt, and i am willing to bet money (so to speak), that f2p is not going to become b2p.
Lastly, the amount of free content, today, is already staggering. No one has enough time to devour it all. So if *some* games become a little more restricting in their pay wall (which i don't see happening at this moment at all, it is usually the opposite), it won't impact my fun.
I cannot stand being gated from something because of money.
Then you must love F2P because those are the only games where some content is not gated by money.
In any box or sub games, you are obviously gated by the box price or the sub-fee.
And i guess you never buy expansions here.
Nice strawman.
It is your own logic.
Don't tell me you don't know that a box sale is gated by $60, and a sub is gated by $15 a month, and an expansion is gated by $40.
All gated "because of money", in your own words.
So what F2P games you going to enjoy next?
Its still a strawman and nor did you address my point about previous "B2P" games like FF7 being rereleased with a cash shop just to make extra money.
The design of these games is a cash grab....no one needed those extra "features" in the original release of the game, they are simply added to make more money.
I do not find a box sale gated content because I choose to buy the game. I know that no one else in the game has an advantage over me except in terms of effort and I can do anything in the game.
The important thing for me is that other users are going to have a similar experience to me. That just does not happen in free to play games.
I did exactly what you did, Skyrim dlc apart from skins, got the lot. They use a good model though, what about Dragon Age? DA shows you how it will end up, dlc is held back. Also if you look at what is being offered in many games, say Batman as an example it is skins and weapons, again this points to the future. So for now we can pick and choose, it is what changes will come down the line that concern me. And yes, there are other things in life, already I don't play MMO's as much as I used to because I do not think they are as good as they used to be. Things change and opting out is a perfectly valid response.
Then don't play them. Find something else to do. Many people act like this is a problem. They are not entitled to the game they want, they have to pick from what is actually available and if they don't want to play what is available, they can go do something else. It's amazing how many people out there don't get that simple fact of life.
I did exactly what you did, Skyrim dlc apart from skins, got the lot. They use a good model though, what about Dragon Age? DA shows you how it will end up, dlc is held back. Also if you look at what is being offered in many games, say Batman as an example it is skins and weapons, again this points to the future. So for now we can pick and choose, it is what changes will come down the line that concern me. And yes, there are other things in life, already I don't play MMO's as much as I used to because I do not think they are as good as they used to be. Things change and opting out is a perfectly valid response.
Then don't play them. Find something else to do. Many people act like this is a problem. They are not entitled to the game they want, they have to pick from what is actually available and if they don't want to play what is available, they can go do something else. It's amazing how many people out there don't get that simple fact of life.
Agreed 100%.
It is not like there is a lack of good entertainment. In fact, MMOs are not that great on the entertainment totem pole. There are great tv shows like Dexter, great movies like The Avenger, great novels like The Honor Harrington series, and great games in other genres. (disclaimer: "great" to me, of course).
Comments
That actually is NOT the point. Why? Because you get money from a much SMALLER group of players, although you get more in total.
The point is to let the players who are willing to pay more (whales) to pay a lot more, and at the same time, expand the player base by letting a lot of players pay for free. This is classical "price discrimination" (with some variation) in economics.
And steam is a good thing. Buying, playing, organizing, and talking about games have been made very convenient.
I pick and choose what I do with games now and always will. If the DLC adds significantly to the game and comes out long enough after the game that it's clear it wasn't just in-game content that was held back (Skyrim comes to mind as a game that did it right), then I might buy it. I might not. For Skyrim, I bought all three expansions, but none of the skin packs, etc.
However, if it gets to the point where I'm required to buy things I don't want to buy, then I just won't play that game. If it becomes all games, I'll just stop playing games. I don't understand people who are so fanatical about staring at a computer screen that they can't imagine finding something else to do.
I play games because they're fun. When they stop being fun, I'll stop playing them.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I did exactly what you did, Skyrim dlc apart from skins, got the lot. They use a good model though, what about Dragon Age? DA shows you how it will end up, dlc is held back. Also if you look at what is being offered in many games, say Batman as an example it is skins and weapons, again this points to the future. So for now we can pick and choose, it is what changes will come down the line that concern me. And yes, there are other things in life, already I don't play MMO's as much as I used to because I do not think they are as good as they used to be. Things change and opting out is a perfectly valid response.
I have no preference for any payment model. I just look at what I get for my money.
P2P just sets the bar really high for me, so there is a smaller chance that I will play. Especially now with all the B2P and F2P titles out there. It has to be extremely good or it is just a setting that I really want to play in.
With F2P I will check the restrictions first and how it will affect gameplay. As example, I hate too small inventory/bank space and if that is the case, I am going to check first what it costs to increase this.
With B2P so far with MMO's I didn't have a bad experience.
This was for MMO's. For other games, I will never accept forced online anymore. Thanks to EA's SimCity. Apart from that it is the planned DLC that determines if I buy the base game. Sometimes it is just obvious that the basegame is hollowed out in favour of more DLC. Then I just want to give that gamecompany the finger.
To answer Nari's posts:
I do not think the gaming market established by online stores has no benefit for players, they certainly do have benefits for us. But lets be clear why they are there, they benefit the store and the gaming industry first and foremost.
From the increasing moneterisation of content as dlc to the security features of online play it is all about what the industry gets out of it. At the same time we find it convenient to use of course.
Certainly F2P shows the problems with creating a MMO that needs you to use the cash shop. But this is a matter of stages, and what the punters (that's us) are prepared to put up with at each stage.
We were not prepared to put up with cash shops, now they are everywhere. We are not prepared to put up with a cash shop where you need to buy items to play. Guess where that's going? It is the whale model for now, but in the future it will be all of us. And the studies players have posted on here have said that between 1% and 50% of players in a F2P MMO pay. I would suggest it is already changing, already a larger proportion of the player base are paying and you are seeing this through the eyes of someone who was there with F2P from the start. So it is hard for you to accept that more are paying now. However I believe the baulk of income in a F2P MMO comes from whales and will for some years to come.
Markets are always about win-win. Obviously no company will put up an online store, not a trivial engineering endeavor, if there is no benefit for them. At the same time, if there is no benefit for the customer, no one will use it. Hence, it is wrong to assume there is a "first and foremost" benefit. It is always about mutual benefit.
Oh i don't dispute that more are paying. However, it is about competition. As long as there are other free alternatives, and as long as devs want to tap into a large audience, free will be here to stay. I highly doubt, and i am willing to bet money (so to speak), that f2p is not going to become b2p.
Lastly, the amount of free content, today, is already staggering. No one has enough time to devour it all. So if *some* games become a little more restricting in their pay wall (which i don't see happening at this moment at all, it is usually the opposite), it won't impact my fun.
Its still a strawman and nor did you address my point about previous "B2P" games like FF7 being rereleased with a cash shop just to make extra money.
The design of these games is a cash grab....no one needed those extra "features" in the original release of the game, they are simply added to make more money.
I do not find a box sale gated content because I choose to buy the game. I know that no one else in the game has an advantage over me except in terms of effort and I can do anything in the game.
The important thing for me is that other users are going to have a similar experience to me. That just does not happen in free to play games.
Then don't play them. Find something else to do. Many people act like this is a problem. They are not entitled to the game they want, they have to pick from what is actually available and if they don't want to play what is available, they can go do something else. It's amazing how many people out there don't get that simple fact of life.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
No i am not addressing FF7 .. or what-not.
I am only using your own logic about gating by money. Your logic is very clear. Either you changed your position, or you should like F2P.
Which one is it?
Agreed 100%.
It is not like there is a lack of good entertainment. In fact, MMOs are not that great on the entertainment totem pole. There are great tv shows like Dexter, great movies like The Avenger, great novels like The Honor Harrington series, and great games in other genres. (disclaimer: "great" to me, of course).