you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
This pretty much.
The fallacy is what OP and the likes are trying to do, slamming sandbox name on themeparks with a lot of fluff.
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
This kind of attitude, especially the first line, pretty much sums up why I don't like PvP nor PvPers in MMORPGs.
Out of interest, do you go to McDonalds and complain to people there how much you hate fastfood/burgers?
Tip: Stay out of McDonalds if you don't like burgers. What's so hard to understand?
Don't like PvALL (Every PvPer is PvEer too btw) then don't PLAY, stop turning every MMO into optional carebear PvE-only land, play the games they made for you.
I love how you see the games as "MINE" - like a little kid. Mine mine mine you can't have none! Nowhere in my post or anyone else's response has anyone said anything about changing sandboxes to only PvE, it has been about having OPTIONS for both play styles. But every response of yours is the same - PvP sandbox you want PvE go play themepark get out of MY game - mine mine mine
You JUST don't want to get it.
People like you think that they only should be attackable by scripted AI bots in a multiplayer online world, but magically invincible to other players, you're the MMO vegans, the ones who caused "options" and "casual" and "accessible" and "fair" , here you have it -- Themepark in its purest form, tailored to your needs.
Look at what you listed, you already have most of it in your Themeparks:
""things to do like entertainment classes, farming, building houses, no restrictions so you can go where you want when you want, not a quest-hub style questing system, sailing, fishing""
That's not "sandbox" mate, that's simply FLUFF. Most of that you find in WoW Rift Final Fantasy Gw2 and the like. You can't go everywhere in WoW or what? You can go fishing there too. Build a house in Rift or Wildstar. There you go.
A good sandbox mimmicks the real world, there is nothing casual, optional or fair about it. If you want any of that, you already want themepark safemode. As I said -> that way
Is the real world PvE-only? Take a vacation In Afghanistan or hang around in a bad neighbourhood more often and go check for yourself.
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
This kind of attitude, especially the first line, pretty much sums up why I don't like PvP nor PvPers in MMORPGs.
Out of interest, do you go to McDonalds and complain to people there how much you hate fastfood/burgers?
Tip: Stay out of McDonalds if you don't like burgers. What's so hard to understand?
Don't like PvALL (Every PvPer is PvEer too btw) then don't PLAY, stop turning every MMO into optional carebear PvE-only land, play the games they made for you.
I love how you see the games as "MINE" - like a little kid. Mine mine mine you can't have none! Nowhere in my post or anyone else's response has anyone said anything about changing sandboxes to only PvE, it has been about having OPTIONS for both play styles. But every response of yours is the same - PvP sandbox you want PvE go play themepark get out of MY game - mine mine mine
You JUST don't want to get it.
People like you think that they only should be attackable by scripted AI bots in a multiplayer online world, but magically invincible to other players, you're the MMO vegans, the ones who caused "options" and "casual" and "accessible" and "fair" , here you have it -- Themepark in its purest form, tailored to your needs.
Look at what you listed, you already have most of it in your Themeparks:
""things to do like entertainment classes, farming, building houses, no restrictions so you can go where you want when you want, not a quest-hub style questing system, sailing, fishing""
That's not "sandbox" mate, that's simply FLUFF. Most of that you find in WoW Rift Final Fantasy Gw2 and the like. You can't go everywhere in WoW or what? You can go fishing there too. Build a house in Rift or Wildstar. There you go.
A good sandbox mimmicks the real world, there is nothing casual, optional or fair about it. If you want any of that, you already want themepark safemode. As I said -> that way
Is the real world PvE-only? Take a vacation In Afghanistan or hang around in a bad neighbourhood more often and go check for yourself.
I think what you are missing is that Safari Online and Suburbia Online are just as valid paths for a sandbox as Terrorism Online or Ghetto Online. The difference here is that the people who want the first two just say they prefer that. Many of the people in this thread that want the last two, much like yourself, are actively hostile toward even the suggestion that the first two exist.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
Pretty much the exact fallacious attitude and arguments I talk about in the post.
Certainly enough people whip out their Hardcores and begin diddling them on the slightest pretense.
You provided the provocation, and got the response you expected. /thread?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
You know.. I have played in many sandboxes as a kid and NEVER once was it considered normal or allowed to get into fights with the other kids.. I fail to see how sandbox = kill each other.. ?? I'm confused
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
This was the first sentence you came up with after reading (seriously? I bet it was just tl;dr for your narrow mind) the OP. Where did the OP say that he "want sandbox without FFA PVP", please quote that part for me (if you can). I also can't extract such a statement from the OP's context.
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
This kind of attitude, especially the first line, pretty much sums up why I don't like PvP nor PvPers in MMORPGs.
Out of interest, do you go to McDonalds and complain to people there how much you hate fastfood/burgers?
Tip: Stay out of McDonalds if you don't like burgers. What's so hard to understand?
Don't like PvALL (Every PvPer is PvEer too btw) then don't PLAY, stop turning every MMO into optional carebear PvE-only land, play the games they made for you.
I love how you see the games as "MINE" - like a little kid. Mine mine mine you can't have none! Nowhere in my post or anyone else's response has anyone said anything about changing sandboxes to only PvE, it has been about having OPTIONS for both play styles. But every response of yours is the same - PvP sandbox you want PvE go play themepark get out of MY game - mine mine mine
You JUST don't want to get it.
People like you think that they only should be attackable by scripted AI bots in a multiplayer online world, but magically invincible to other players, you're the MMO vegans, the ones who caused "options" and "casual" and "accessible" and "fair" , here you have it -- Themepark in its purest form, tailored to your needs.
Look at what you listed, you already have most of it in your Themeparks:
""things to do like entertainment classes, farming, building houses, no restrictions so you can go where you want when you want, not a quest-hub style questing system, sailing, fishing""
That's not "sandbox" mate, that's simply FLUFF. Most of that you find in WoW Rift Final Fantasy Gw2 and the like. You can't go everywhere in WoW or what? You can go fishing there too. Build a house in Rift or Wildstar. There you go.
A good sandbox mimmicks the real world, there is nothing casual, optional or fair about it. If you want any of that, you already want themepark safemode. As I said -> that way
Is the real world PvE-only? Take a vacation In Afghanistan or hang around in a bad neighbourhood more often and go check for yourself.
There is no "getting" your points because they aren't points - they are just narrow minded, my way and opinion are the word of god rants. In your fervor to prove to the world how weak everyone else is by being a PvE player, and strong you are because you play PvP, you ignore any points or arguments made, repeat yourself over and over, and make some of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on this site. The only real point that I took from your latest batch of drivel is that the only component that makes a game a sandbox is FFA PVP - everything else is themepark fluff. So League of Legends is the ultimate sandbox.
And your consistent argument that ffa pvp mimics the world and is realistic is so ridiculous it's laughable. And you quote a couple instances where real life is like that - no holds barred nobody is safe chaos like in war or a ghetto at times. Well, guess what, I can come up with thousands upon thousands of examples of real life NOT being like that and that's just as realistic. I went to the store today and didn't get attacked or killed, went to work and it didn't happen, went on a vacation recently and it didn't happen either.
You don't want FREEDOM, you want ANARCHY. You want a game world that doesn't mimic normal day to day reality for most people - you want a game that just resembles a war zone. And you have decided that chaos and anarchy are the core (and really only based on your post) component of what a sandbox is.
He isn't arguing with you. He's arguing with a man of straw.
And in some ways, judging by the original post, so are you.
You've both created sets, classes of people who think like...[x]. And each of you is telling members of this nebulous Opposition Class what they think, want and believe in.
You are both arguing with every other person you've ever assigned to the Opposition Class.
Originally posted by Margulis
You don't want FREEDOM, you want ANARCHY. You want a game world
Rest my case.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
He isn't arguing with you. He's arguing with a man of straw.
And in some ways, judging by the original post, so are you.
You've both created sets, classes of people who think like...[x]. And each of you is telling members of this nebulous Opposition Class what they think, want and believe in.
Originally posted by Margulis
You don't want FREEDOM, you want ANARCHY. You want a game world
Rest my case.
What your saying is somewhat true except....the OP isn't saying a sandbox can't be FFA PvP orientated just that it doesn't have to be and isn't a defining feature of a Sandbox or Sandbox game.
On the other hand DocBrody,Bidwood and Co are saying there is only one way to build a Sandbox game which is Ironic because they are making sanbox game development into a themepark 8P.
The thing that makes me laugh and that I find really ironic is the main reason FFA PvP games are not more successful or have more developers devote time to them is because of the attitude of the very people who want to play them.
The thing that makes me laugh and that I find really ironic is the main reason FFA PvP games are not more successful or have more developers devote time to them is because of the attitude of the very people who want to play them.
And they seem to be ok with that; in some cases, the developers of such games even seem to encourage it.
But the same can be said of any PVP game and its attitudes toward PVE players, and vice-versa.
Let's just say that years of forum combat have lead to plenty of entrenched positions.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The thing that makes me laugh and that I find really ironic is the main reason FFA PvP games are not more successful or have more developers devote time to them is because of the attitude of the very people who want to play them.
not all of them, but as they say, even few rotten apples can ruin the basket
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
This kind of attitude, especially the first line, pretty much sums up why I don't like PvP nor PvPers in MMORPGs.
Out of interest, do you go to McDonalds and complain to people there how much you hate fastfood/burgers?
Tip: Stay out of McDonalds if you don't like burgers. What's so hard to understand?
Don't like PvALL (Every PvPer is PvEer too btw) then don't PLAY, stop turning every MMO into optional carebear PvE-only land, play the games they made for you.
I love how you see the games as "MINE" - like a little kid. Mine mine mine you can't have none! Nowhere in my post or anyone else's response has anyone said anything about changing sandboxes to only PvE, it has been about having OPTIONS for both play styles. But every response of yours is the same - PvP sandbox you want PvE go play themepark get out of MY game - mine mine mine
You JUST don't want to get it.
People like you think that they only should be attackable by scripted AI bots in a multiplayer online world, but magically invincible to other players, you're the MMO vegans, the ones who caused "options" and "casual" and "accessible" and "fair" , here you have it -- Themepark in its purest form, tailored to your needs.
Look at what you listed, you already have most of it in your Themeparks:
""things to do like entertainment classes, farming, building houses, no restrictions so you can go where you want when you want, not a quest-hub style questing system, sailing, fishing""
That's not "sandbox" mate, that's simply FLUFF. Most of that you find in WoW Rift Final Fantasy Gw2 and the like. You can't go everywhere in WoW or what? You can go fishing there too. Build a house in Rift or Wildstar. There you go.
A good sandbox mimmicks the real world, there is nothing casual, optional or fair about it. If you want any of that, you already want themepark safemode. As I said -> that way
Is the real world PvE-only? Take a vacation In Afghanistan or hang around in a bad neighbourhood more often and go check for yourself.
There is no "getting" your points because they aren't points - they are just narrow minded, my way and opinion are the word of god rants. In your fervor to prove to the world how weak everyone else is by being a PvE player, and strong you are because you play PvP, you ignore any points or arguments made, repeat yourself over and over, and make some of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on this site. The only real point that I took from your latest batch of drivel is that the only component that makes a game a sandbox is FFA PVP - everything else is themepark fluff. So League of Legends is the ultimate sandbox.
And your consistent argument that ffa pvp mimics the world and is realistic is so ridiculous it's laughable. And you quote a couple instances where real life is like that - no holds barred nobody is safe chaos like in war or a ghetto at times. Well, guess what, I can come up with thousands upon thousands of examples of real life NOT being like that and that's just as realistic. I went to the store today and didn't get attacked or killed, went to work and it didn't happen, went on a vacation recently and it didn't happen either.
You don't want FREEDOM, you want ANARCHY. You want a game world that doesn't mimic normal day to day reality for most people - you want a game that just resembles a war zone. And you have decided that chaos and anarchy are the core (and really only based on your post) component of what a sandbox is.
Nice how you ignore anything I wrote and switch right into insinuation mode.
I pointed out everything you listed is readily available in themeparks. What the heck do you want with a sandbox MMO then when all you do is begging for restrictions and invincible mode which is the exact opposite of sandbox freedom and realism?
Play sandbox MMO xy because it seems to be the new hip thing to play? Tip: Just play WoW/Rift/Gw2/FF and just call it sandbox if it makes you happy.
This thread is useless and lacks any logical coherent arguments from the PvE-only folks.
Originally posted by DocBrody I pointed out everything you listed is readily available in themeparks. What the heck do you want with a sandbox MMO then when all you do is begging for restrictions and invincible mode which is the exact opposite of sandbox freedom and realism?Play sandbox MMO xy because it seems to be the new hip thing to play? Tip: Just play WoW/Rift/Gw2/FF and call it sandbox if it makes you happy.This thread is useless and lacks any logical coherent arguments from the PvE-only folks.
I find it odd that you are so concerned about what somebody else wants to play.
But to answer your question, there are game play elements in a sandbox that have nothing to do with PvP. The most basic of which is the ability to build something. That's what at least some of them want. Not sure why that's hard to understand.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The thing that makes me laugh and that I find really ironic is the main reason FFA PvP games are not more successful or have more developers devote time to them is because of the attitude of the very people who want to play them.
the reason is definitely not that those handful of MMOs are cheap, buggy indie titles with low production value. Right? Rrrright...
Originally posted by DocBrody I pointed out everything you listed is readily available in themeparks. What the heck do you want with a sandbox MMO then when all you do is begging for restrictions and invincible mode which is the exact opposite of sandbox freedom and realism?
Play sandbox MMO xy because it seems to be the new hip thing to play? Tip: Just play WoW/Rift/Gw2/FF and call it sandbox if it makes you happy.
This thread is useless and lacks any logical coherent arguments from the PvE-only folks.
I find it odd that you are so concerned about what somebody else wants to play.
But to answer your question, there are game play elements in a sandbox that have nothing to do with PvP. The most basic of which is the ability to build something. That's what at least some of them want. Not sure why that's hard to understand.
maybe WoW adds open world housing some day. Wildstar will have housing too. Rift has it already.
There you go.
The thread title is misleading by the way, should be renamed to:
"I want more fluff activities to do in my theme park MMO."
you want sandbox without FFA PvP? Go play the countless theme parks they made for YOU.
not wanting PvP in a sandbox is like wanting a quarterpounder burger without meat.
Eat something different then if you don't want meat
btw PvP is not a feature, it's a realistic setting - you are there, you are not invincible. the immersion breaking invincible mode of theme parks -> that way please
You know.. I have played in many sandboxes as a kid and NEVER once was it considered normal or allowed to get into fights with the other kids.. I fail to see how sandbox = kill each other.. ?? I'm confused
I played in a sandbox when i was a kid and a bully knocked down my sandcastle.
Then I threw sand in his eyes punched him in the mouth and made him eat the cat poop in the corner of the sandbox.
A true 'sandbox' is/would be a gaming environment where players have full control over their interactions with it and other players as well as the ability to influence and change it based on their actions. I do not discount the inclusion of PvP in some forms, but to try and claim that being a sandbox means FFA PvP is just delusional. There is a major difference between a living, breathing mmo world and a huge CoD map...
Originally posted by DocBrody Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by DocBrodyI pointed out everything you listed is readily available in themeparks. What the heck do you want with a sandbox MMO then when all you do is begging for restrictions and invincible mode which is the exact opposite of sandbox freedom and realism?Play sandbox MMO xy because it seems to be the new hip thing to play? Tip: Just play WoW/Rift/Gw2/FF and call it sandbox if it makes you happy.This thread is useless and lacks any logical coherent arguments from the PvE-only folks.
I find it odd that you are so concerned about what somebody else wants to play. But to answer your question, there are game play elements in a sandbox that have nothing to do with PvP. The most basic of which is the ability to build something. That's what at least some of them want. Not sure why that's hard to understand. maybe WoW adds open world housing some day. Wildstar will have housing too. Rift has it already.
There you go.
The thread title is misleading by the way, should be renamed to:
"I want more fluff activities to do in my theme park MMO."
I still find it odd that this is so concerning to you. It's not like creating a sandbox game that doesn't have PvP as the driving feature would have any sort of impact beyond the impact it has for the people who enjoy the game.
But in response to your statements on housing, having housing in WoW is not the same as building a house in Minecraft. Having housing in the open world does not turn a theme park game into a sandbox.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well most themeparks are not classless or skill based,this is absolutely not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have entertainment classes (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Most themeparks don't have buildable houses or any other structures (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Most themeparks don't have restrictions so you can go anywhwere, this is absolutely not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have non quest hub style system which IMO is not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have sailing (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Sandbox has never meant pvp... ever it has always been a feature that can be used in pvp. Some sandbox had owpvp, some had optional pvp, some didn't have pvp at all.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Some should really talk about what they want, and not about what is how called. And don't care as what it is called. The term sandbox is that blurred, that everyone does mean something completely different... exactly the same with MMO, MMORPG.. those terms do not have any value and can mean almost anything...
On the other side.. noone is really interested in the topic anyway.. it is just about arguing for the sake of it.
Let's take a look now at some of the arguments that have come up regarding sandboxes and pvp:
"There is no point to a sandbox if it isn't pvp focused, you may as well be playing a single player game like Skyrim"
- Again, completely narrow minded and arrogant point of view. Taking one component out of a sandbox does not negate all of the rest of the components that make it enjoyable for people to play. Not everyone has a desire to kill each other and a very large part of the community likes working together to form an economy, take on world challenges, build, or just be social together. There is ZERO NECESSITY for pvp to be one of the main focuses of a sandbox world for it to a desirable place to play. And for many, it wouldn't have to be in the game at all for it to be desirable to play, although I think many like myself would like an option.
*snip*
- I agree that Not everyone has the desire to kill each other. I'm one of the people that cherishes community and working together.
- Taking one component out of a sandbox doesn't negate all of the other components that makes it a sandbox. I agree with this also. But, not in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER environment. Removing any "options" players have in regards to their affiliation with other players is not a good thing for a sandbox. The same as saying "well, we don't have to have groups/parties. We still can stand next to eachother and fight the same things without being in a party" --- Why take away the option?
- Sandbox = Freedom of play. Sandbox = community direction. sandbox = gains, losses, success and failure. Once you start trimming the fat and making the game more friendly to those that don't want challenge and difficulty and choice, you remove the magic of it being open-ended and free. If everyone is safe, and no one has the option to act against another player, trolls can do and say whatever they want. People start to compete against everyone around them for resources, location, mob spawns, DPS meters, Gear scores, etc.... all because they simply didn't have the option to just Fight someone sometimes.
Sandboxes are not supposed to feel safe, unless you personally built something in the game as a player or player(s) to make you feel safe. Why do you care what someone else does for enjoyment if you have the freedom to build a frickin castle and keep them out of your hair?
Why do you care what people do in a sandbox? You don't see pro-Sandbox players ever saying nonsense like "There shouldn't be any PVE in sandboxes. Everyone should just log in and die."
Comments
This pretty much.
The fallacy is what OP and the likes are trying to do, slamming sandbox name on themeparks with a lot of fluff.
If only UO had launched with a Trammel ruleset, I can't help but think the MMO community would be in a much healthier place today.
You JUST don't want to get it.
People like you think that they only should be attackable by scripted AI bots in a multiplayer online world, but magically invincible to other players, you're the MMO vegans, the ones who caused "options" and "casual" and "accessible" and "fair" , here you have it -- Themepark in its purest form, tailored to your needs.
Look at what you listed, you already have most of it in your Themeparks:
""things to do like entertainment classes, farming, building houses, no restrictions so you can go where you want when you want, not a quest-hub style questing system, sailing, fishing""
That's not "sandbox" mate, that's simply FLUFF. Most of that you find in WoW Rift Final Fantasy Gw2 and the like. You can't go everywhere in WoW or what? You can go fishing there too. Build a house in Rift or Wildstar. There you go.
A good sandbox mimmicks the real world, there is nothing casual, optional or fair about it. If you want any of that, you already want themepark safemode. As I said -> that way
Is the real world PvE-only? Take a vacation In Afghanistan or hang around in a bad neighbourhood more often and go check for yourself.
I think what you are missing is that Safari Online and Suburbia Online are just as valid paths for a sandbox as Terrorism Online or Ghetto Online. The difference here is that the people who want the first two just say they prefer that. Many of the people in this thread that want the last two, much like yourself, are actively hostile toward even the suggestion that the first two exist.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Certainly enough people whip out their Hardcores and begin diddling them on the slightest pretense.
You provided the provocation, and got the response you expected. /thread?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You know.. I have played in many sandboxes as a kid and NEVER once was it considered normal or allowed to get into fights with the other kids.. I fail to see how sandbox = kill each other.. ?? I'm confused
This was the first sentence you came up with after reading (seriously? I bet it was just tl;dr for your narrow mind) the OP. Where did the OP say that he "want sandbox without FFA PVP", please quote that part for me (if you can). I also can't extract such a statement from the OP's context.
There is no "getting" your points because they aren't points - they are just narrow minded, my way and opinion are the word of god rants. In your fervor to prove to the world how weak everyone else is by being a PvE player, and strong you are because you play PvP, you ignore any points or arguments made, repeat yourself over and over, and make some of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen on this site. The only real point that I took from your latest batch of drivel is that the only component that makes a game a sandbox is FFA PVP - everything else is themepark fluff. So League of Legends is the ultimate sandbox.
And your consistent argument that ffa pvp mimics the world and is realistic is so ridiculous it's laughable. And you quote a couple instances where real life is like that - no holds barred nobody is safe chaos like in war or a ghetto at times. Well, guess what, I can come up with thousands upon thousands of examples of real life NOT being like that and that's just as realistic. I went to the store today and didn't get attacked or killed, went to work and it didn't happen, went on a vacation recently and it didn't happen either.
You don't want FREEDOM, you want ANARCHY. You want a game world that doesn't mimic normal day to day reality for most people - you want a game that just resembles a war zone. And you have decided that chaos and anarchy are the core (and really only based on your post) component of what a sandbox is.
That's really as far as you need to read, OP.
He isn't arguing with you. He's arguing with a man of straw.
And in some ways, judging by the original post, so are you.
You've both created sets, classes of people who think like...[x]. And each of you is telling members of this nebulous Opposition Class what they think, want and believe in.
You are both arguing with every other person you've ever assigned to the Opposition Class.
Rest my case.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What your saying is somewhat true except....the OP isn't saying a sandbox can't be FFA PvP orientated just that it doesn't have to be and isn't a defining feature of a Sandbox or Sandbox game.
On the other hand DocBrody,Bidwood and Co are saying there is only one way to build a Sandbox game which is Ironic because they are making sanbox game development into a themepark 8P.
The thing that makes me laugh and that I find really ironic is the main reason FFA PvP games are not more successful or have more developers devote time to them is because of the attitude of the very people who want to play them.
And they seem to be ok with that; in some cases, the developers of such games even seem to encourage it.
But the same can be said of any PVP game and its attitudes toward PVE players, and vice-versa.
Let's just say that years of forum combat have lead to plenty of entrenched positions.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
not all of them, but as they say, even few rotten apples can ruin the basket
Nice how you ignore anything I wrote and switch right into insinuation mode.
I pointed out everything you listed is readily available in themeparks. What the heck do you want with a sandbox MMO then when all you do is begging for restrictions and invincible mode which is the exact opposite of sandbox freedom and realism?
Play sandbox MMO xy because it seems to be the new hip thing to play? Tip: Just play WoW/Rift/Gw2/FF and just call it sandbox if it makes you happy.
This thread is useless and lacks any logical coherent arguments from the PvE-only folks.
I find it odd that you are so concerned about what somebody else wants to play.
But to answer your question, there are game play elements in a sandbox that have nothing to do with PvP. The most basic of which is the ability to build something. That's what at least some of them want. Not sure why that's hard to understand.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
the reason is definitely not that those handful of MMOs are cheap, buggy indie titles with low production value. Right? Rrrright...
I'm laughing too.
maybe WoW adds open world housing some day. Wildstar will have housing too. Rift has it already.
There you go.
The thread title is misleading by the way, should be renamed to:
"I want more fluff activities to do in my theme park MMO."
I played in a sandbox when i was a kid and a bully knocked down my sandcastle.
Then I threw sand in his eyes punched him in the mouth and made him eat the cat poop in the corner of the sandbox.
Life IS Feudal
maybe WoW adds open world housing some day. Wildstar will have housing too. Rift has it already.
There you go.
The thread title is misleading by the way, should be renamed to:
"I want more fluff activities to do in my theme park MMO."
I still find it odd that this is so concerning to you. It's not like creating a sandbox game that doesn't have PvP as the driving feature would have any sort of impact beyond the impact it has for the people who enjoy the game.
But in response to your statements on housing, having housing in WoW is not the same as building a house in Minecraft. Having housing in the open world does not turn a theme park game into a sandbox.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well most themeparks are not classless or skill based,this is absolutely not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have entertainment classes (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Most themeparks don't have buildable houses or any other structures (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Most themeparks don't have restrictions so you can go anywhwere, this is absolutely not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have non quest hub style system which IMO is not fluff.
Most themeparks don't have sailing (most games period don't have this) and it doesn't have to be fluff.
Sandbox has never meant pvp... ever it has always been a feature that can be used in pvp. Some sandbox had owpvp, some had optional pvp, some didn't have pvp at all.
Some should really talk about what they want, and not about what is how called. And don't care as what it is called. The term sandbox is that blurred, that everyone does mean something completely different... exactly the same with MMO, MMORPG.. those terms do not have any value and can mean almost anything...
On the other side.. noone is really interested in the topic anyway.. it is just about arguing for the sake of it.
that's not my definition of sandbox, it's my way of saying "stick with your theme parks"
- I agree that Not everyone has the desire to kill each other. I'm one of the people that cherishes community and working together.
- Taking one component out of a sandbox doesn't negate all of the other components that makes it a sandbox. I agree with this also. But, not in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER environment. Removing any "options" players have in regards to their affiliation with other players is not a good thing for a sandbox. The same as saying "well, we don't have to have groups/parties. We still can stand next to eachother and fight the same things without being in a party" --- Why take away the option?
- Sandbox = Freedom of play. Sandbox = community direction. sandbox = gains, losses, success and failure. Once you start trimming the fat and making the game more friendly to those that don't want challenge and difficulty and choice, you remove the magic of it being open-ended and free. If everyone is safe, and no one has the option to act against another player, trolls can do and say whatever they want. People start to compete against everyone around them for resources, location, mob spawns, DPS meters, Gear scores, etc.... all because they simply didn't have the option to just Fight someone sometimes.
Sandboxes are not supposed to feel safe, unless you personally built something in the game as a player or player(s) to make you feel safe. Why do you care what someone else does for enjoyment if you have the freedom to build a frickin castle and keep them out of your hair?
Why do you care what people do in a sandbox? You don't see pro-Sandbox players ever saying nonsense like "There shouldn't be any PVE in sandboxes. Everyone should just log in and die."
Why do you care?