Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why haven't we seen a Proper turn based MMORPG / JRPG yet?
Squishydew
Member UncommonPosts: 1,107
It's always baffled me that we've never seen any proper turn based / JRPG MMO's ( apologies if there have been, or I'm totally misunderstanding what JRPG's are. )
Sure we've seen things that get close like Dofus/wakfu, cardlike games like Wizard 101, and Atlantica Online with its "lovely" cash shop.
But I've never seen a good Raw JRPG like MMO, like the old final fantasy games, chrono trigger, or even pokemon if you could consider it that.
I've been wanting to play a game like this for ages, but for some reason it just never came, even final fantasy dodged it, and i don't quite understand why, games like Atlantica online showed that theres definitely interest, we just need something less poorly executed.
It seems, at least to me like an incredible idea, and while a massive combat system might not be entirely ideal, It's not entirely out of the question to create it. In the end they could always stick to smaller dungeons created for 4 to 5 players if so desired.
Changing the turn based combat slightly to work on a recharging energy bar of sorts seems like a good option.
Any thoughts on this?
Comments
I don't want to wait for others to make their turn.
I played lots of turn-based games, but straightly SP.
As my post stated though, this isn't even necessary, an energy system would solve this issue instantly, simply a short timer based on perhaps your agility that decides how many seconds it takes for you to be able to attack again.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
i am commenting on straight turned-based. An energy system may make it a little better, depending on the pace.
On the other hand, while i don't want to wait ... i do want to take my own time to make decisions. So i want OTHERs to wait. There is no good system to accomodate both desires. The only one is SP turned-base games so the computer has to wait for me, and i don't have to wait for anyone.
Definitely understandable, i suppose that in the end developers are still completely unwilling to take any risk with their money whatsoever, and if they can't please all demographics they just chicken out, it sucks really.
They are not trying to please all demographics. Obviously the steath games are no getting the puzzle games dollars.
But they do need to please ENOUGH demographics.
And why would that be chicken out? Shouldn't a dev be pleased if his games are enjoyed by a larger audience than a smaller one, even if we are not talking about money.
It sucks only if they don't make games for you. In fact, if they please more people, fewer will think that it sucks. So this is a win-win strategy.
In close quarters I guess kind of. It was more real time than turn based I feel, as you had maybe 2 or 3 seconds before it executed an attack, and I think both players attacked/defended at the same time.
Ranged combat I think was more similar to the usual auto attack.
Anyways, I wouldn't mind seeing another turn based MMO. Atlantica was neat, though I didn't play it long for other reasons. Wakfu and Myth Wars were enjoyable.
The reason you haven't seen one is the turn-based aspect.
Turn-based has a well-defined world clock. It only advances in a SP game when you select Next Turn. When you add multiple players to that basic game concept, you either have a single clock that everyone updates (and you wait while Kenneth goes to dinner while its his turn), or you have a clock for everyone. With a clock for everyone, there are all sorts of difficult problems to solve to keep the game balanced.
Synchronization is a huge problem, especially when you consider a game like X-COM. It has a RT world view with a variable world clock, and a turn-based strategic combat system. If you have a constant game clock and the turn-based sequence, it would be possible for you to be involved with a turn-based fight only to find aliens had invaded your base. Now, where would your ship go? It now has no hanger to land in. This problem gets much, much worse when applied to a multi-player game.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The synchronization issue you bring up seems reliant on a piss-poor design to actually be a problem. Atlantica Online has already clearly shown how turn-based combat can work. I got the impression FF11 also used basically a turn-based system.
A world clock isn't necessary at all. All you need is a synchronous turn-based system like we've seen in games for years (Alpha Centauri used one), where a new turn activates and everyone gets x seconds to make their moves (x would be a fixed number based on the number and complexity of the moves made in a turn,) and if you don't do anything you forfeit your turn, and if everyone takes their turn before x seconds the next turn starts immediately.
Definitely workable, and I'd give a Disgaea, Fire Emblem, or Hero Academy-inspired turn-based MMORPG a try in a second!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It's boring? I've tried to play Turn Based games like Xcom in the past and found them to be rather boring personally. I enjoy the visceral feeling of combat more then just about anything in an MMO and I would argue most people do as well. Not saying it couldn't work and I'm sure a company could eke out a niche game for those folks.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
What are the MMO components you would want to see in a Final Fantasy or Wizardry-like MMO?
Are you just talking about plugging turn-based combat into an MMO or are you really looking for a massively multiplayer JRPG?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A few years ago I would have agreed, as the reason that style disappeared on this side of the globe is because we didn't like it. However, with the current rise in popularity of online TCGs, I'm thinking turn-based could very well capture a decent sized audience.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I dunno about RPG, because you'd have to stratisfy it somehow to prevent the issue of people waiting for each other, depending on what kind of scoping you're dealing with (imagine people being TB in a city). Thing is, once you do that, it won't really be turn based anymore - and that's actually what a lot of modern MMORPG's are. They have a turn-based mechanic that got real-timed and managed by the GCD and roots.
I think what there's a lot more potential for is a turn-based strategy game, potentially with RTS elements. Kind of where Age of Empires Onine was going but they put too much effort into killing their game.
A lot of browser games (Tribal Wars) were using the concept.
I think the industry is just not there yet. Turn based games generally fell out of favor, especially once Heroes of Might and Magic lost its dominance.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Wizard 101 uses turn based combat, and it's actually pretty cool. You build decks and can play the decks during combat. The downside is when you have to wait for people to take their turns. The timeout for skipping a person is pretty long. It can take something interesting and turn it into something very boring.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
TCGs are different from tactical 3rd (or 1st) person combat with spatial and oriental (facing) elements. There are also online chess, bridge and other turn-based games too.
However, i would prefer my turn-based RPG SP, just because of the waiting time issue (I want to take my time, and i don't want to wait for anyone).
Lastly, i don't see it adds a lot if my turn based RPG party is multiplayer. If it is turn-based, i can control everyone. I cannot do that in real time, and that is why real-time multiplayer co-op combat is different.
If you remember the old Meridian 59 game, I believe that was a turn based MMO. And although ok for it's time, I guess, it was kind of silly to see two guys walk up to each other and then all of a sudden there is this animation of them scraping and kicking up dirt while they went through there entire turn based deal.
Not that I don't think something like this would be ok for a browser game, but for an actual engine based game, I think we've moved too far beyond that in expectation.
(Note, Meridian 59 was not the correct name of the game being spoken of, see below)
Sorry, REALM online! Right sentiment, wrong game. Thanks Naqaj!
http://youtu.be/3-P5QNZ23o4
If I remember correctly, I think youre right.
I actually like the combat interlock. I dont think there was any count down for the player to choose. The combat animations would play and then you'd pick youre next move. And if I remember, if you didnt choose an action then it would default to youre last, or something like that.
It even had a bullet time effect. Then the next attack would be super fast so the animations would resync.
Edit.
If I remember you had three cards to play during combat and they varied depending on what fighting technique you had active; Karate Kung Fu, coding, pistols, submachine gun. And I do remember that if you were in a building and you were standing near a wall you would sometimes get the animation off running along the wall and delivering a round house kick, a'la Trinity in the first scene in the first film.
This is a turn based game, that has almost no waiting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWzoNF9k4g It was well done for its day.
Ahhh it was four different card moves, not three. This this a perfect video on how a well made turn based combat would work, The Basics - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXzVZy_o5UI More Advanced - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF6a-YNEEtg
I have to admit I do miss The Matrix Online. I was a lot better than some of the shit they're trying to feed us nowadays, ahhm, Neverwinter.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."