Originally posted by KatlaOdindottir No offense but neither Tera or NW are 'twitch' combat, seriously? :S
This. "Twitch" seems to be a common buzzword around here used by old nostalgia-filled EQ vets who can't compete in modern games so they decide to just bash the style instead.
There is nothing "twitch" about action-style combat. If you played any modern FPS, fighter, action RPG, etc competitvely, there is no way you will be successful by just mashing buttons in a twitch fashion. These games require mobility, precision, aiming, reading your opponent, among other things.
I'd prefer to rely on my actual skill in EQN rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
"Twitch" still refers to what you describe, even if it may not be the best term. What folks are sometimes trying to convey is that "twitch" or "action combat" ties up the player too much, and keeps him or her from having the time or opportunity to type, thereby hurting socialization. Sort of like trying to have a conversation during a fast-paced basketball game.
I'm not exactly sure which MMO's you are playing, but no MMO I've played, and this includes mostly auto-attack/tab-targeting styles, have allowed me to stop what I'm doing and type something out in the middle of an intense fight.
VoIP is the most common and preferred way to communicate with your group during battles, and is much more intuitive than typing out to your groups. No serious guild in any MMO types messages and commands in chat during dungeon or raid battles, they use programs like Ventrilo, Mumble, TS, etc.
Combat really has nothing to do with community or socialization. In fact, it could actually encourage socializing if it is challenging enough by encouraging players to group together(See Dark Souls).
Originally posted by KatlaOdindottir No offense but neither Tera or NW are 'twitch' combat, seriously? :S
This. "Twitch" seems to be a common buzzword around here used by old nostalgia-filled EQ vets who can't compete in modern games so they decide to just bash the style instead.
There is nothing "twitch" about action-style combat. If you played any modern FPS, fighter, action RPG, etc competitvely, there is no way you will be successful by just mashing buttons in a twitch fashion. These games require mobility, precision, aiming, reading your opponent, among other things.
I'd prefer to rely on my actual skill in EQN rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
"Twitch" still refers to what you describe, even if it may not be the best term. What folks are sometimes trying to convey is that "twitch" or "action combat" ties up the player too much, and keeps him or her from having the time or opportunity to type, thereby hurting socialization. Sort of like trying to have a conversation during a fast-paced basketball game.
I'm not exactly sure which MMO's you are playing, but no MMO I've played, and this includes mostly auto-attack/tab-targeting styles, have allowed me to stop what I'm doing and type something out in the middle of an intense fight.
VoIP is the most common and preferred way to communicate with your group during battles, and is much more intuitive than typing out to your groups. No serious guild in any MMO types messages and commands in chat during dungeon or raid battles, they use programs like Ventrilo, Mumble, TS, etc.
Combat really has nothing to do with community or socialization. In fact, it could actually encourage socializing if it is challenging enough by encouraging players to group together(See Dark Souls).
I wonder how we managed during the old EQ where there were no voice chat programs.. lol Oh thats right we used macros...
I quit wow only 2 months after it's release becouse I found the character controll and combat very dull.I never resub on that game so I would not know how it is today.
For me it's super responsive character control and fluid combat. (see: WoW)
IMO WoW is king in this regard. EQ:Next needs to match it!
WoW has had years of experience and tons of money in-flow to put a ton of work into their combat system. Expecting this from a day-1 MMO is not only foolish but childish.
WoW's combat was clunky as HELL when it first launched.
#1 - don't listen to the loud and whiny minorities when it comes to game and class balance, or to the spoiled safemode themepark players who will inevitably want to turn this into WoW with better graphics, or to the few fanatics who will try to convince you to turn this game into a carebear PvE-only fest without open world PvAll.
Originally posted by KatlaOdindottir No offense but neither Tera or NW are 'twitch' combat, seriously? :S
This. "Twitch" seems to be a common buzzword around here used by old nostalgia-filled EQ vets who can't compete in modern games so they decide to just bash the style instead.
There is nothing "twitch" about action-style combat. If you played any modern FPS, fighter, action RPG, etc competitvely, there is no way you will be successful by just mashing buttons in a twitch fashion. These games require mobility, precision, aiming, reading your opponent, among other things.
I'd prefer to rely on my actual skill in EQN rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
"Twitch" still refers to what you describe, even if it may not be the best term. What folks are sometimes trying to convey is that "twitch" or "action combat" ties up the player too much, and keeps him or her from having the time or opportunity to type, thereby hurting socialization. Sort of like trying to have a conversation during a fast-paced basketball game.
I'm not exactly sure which MMO's you are playing, but no MMO I've played, and this includes mostly auto-attack/tab-targeting styles, have allowed me to stop what I'm doing and type something out in the middle of an intense fight.
VoIP is the most common and preferred way to communicate with your group during battles, and is much more intuitive than typing out to your groups. No serious guild in any MMO types messages and commands in chat during dungeon or raid battles, they use programs like Ventrilo, Mumble, TS, etc.
Combat really has nothing to do with community or socialization. In fact, it could actually encourage socializing if it is challenging enough by encouraging players to group together(See Dark Souls).
The earlier MMO's (EQ, DAOC) would allow for that. But, the faster the action play, the less time to type without interfering with your own DPS. Just a fact.
I think there is some balance to achieve, and it is important to realize that MMORPG's are not about FPS, but about community.
Why can't MMO's have both? Why don't they have a great combat system AND great social/community aspects as well?
Why do we always have to pick two different games to play?
Originally posted by Mendel Please, please, please! Give us an alternative to caster robes! Pantaloons, bloomers, crinoline, slacks, hose, breeches, hiking shorts! Anything!
Originally posted by KatlaOdindottir No offense but neither Tera or NW are 'twitch' combat, seriously? :S
This. "Twitch" seems to be a common buzzword around here used by old nostalgia-filled EQ vets who can't compete in modern games so they decide to just bash the style instead.
There is nothing "twitch" about action-style combat. If you played any modern FPS, fighter, action RPG, etc competitvely, there is no way you will be successful by just mashing buttons in a twitch fashion. These games require mobility, precision, aiming, reading your opponent, among other things.
I'd prefer to rely on my actual skill in EQN rather than random numbers and dice rolls.
"Twitch" still refers to what you describe, even if it may not be the best term. What folks are sometimes trying to convey is that "twitch" or "action combat" ties up the player too much, and keeps him or her from having the time or opportunity to type, thereby hurting socialization. Sort of like trying to have a conversation during a fast-paced basketball game.
I'm not exactly sure which MMO's you are playing, but no MMO I've played, and this includes mostly auto-attack/tab-targeting styles, have allowed me to stop what I'm doing and type something out in the middle of an intense fight.
VoIP is the most common and preferred way to communicate with your group during battles, and is much more intuitive than typing out to your groups. No serious guild in any MMO types messages and commands in chat during dungeon or raid battles, they use programs like Ventrilo, Mumble, TS, etc.
Combat really has nothing to do with community or socialization. In fact, it could actually encourage socializing if it is challenging enough by encouraging players to group together(See Dark Souls).
The earlier MMO's (EQ, DAOC) would allow for that. But, the faster the action play, the less time to type without interfering with your own DPS. Just a fact.
I think there is some balance to achieve, and it is important to realize that MMORPG's are not about FPS, but about community.
Why can't MMO's have both? Why don't they have a great combat system AND great social/community aspects as well?
Why do we always have to pick two different games to play?
I don't think community/socializing has anything to do with combat style but the design of the world and whether there is a need to group or not. Games that are too solo friendly, non-trilogy or zerg inducing makes for lack of socializing. I know some people don't like "forced" grouping, but if content it too easy or no death penalties (and other casualization of games), people won't come together as a community as much, IMO.
Originally posted by Mendel Please, please, please! Give us an alternative to caster robes! Pantaloons, bloomers, crinoline, slacks, hose, breeches, hiking shorts! Anything!
Daisy Dukes shorts?
Most definitely!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Darn developers work way too hard... They need to focus on the virtual world, socialization and a few key story lines and leave the rest up to the players!
The only MMO moments that stick with me over time are those that came out of social game play. Not developer designed story content!
What's more memorable, the time you and a buddy crossed some dangerous territory with your hearts in your throats, desperately attempting to get out alive or yet another boss fight that you watched on YouTube prior to completing?
What's more memorable, a nice afternoon guiding a newbie through a zone, helping them with gear and explaining the lay of the land or the first time you take down that dragon listening to a bunch of tweens yell and scream obscenities at some poor bugger who didn't know to stand by the dragon's left leg when he's about to swish his tail?
What's more memorable, the night 30 friends showed up to cheer for you as you waded ashore after leaping off the plane of air into the ocean after getting your epic weapon or getting the achievement for killing a bunch of chickens in a heroic instance you've completed 100+ times.
What's more memorable, sitting on a rock in the middle of an NPC camp, watching the sunrise with some buds, or bagging 12 snakes (for the 100th time) in order to gather 90 more Infinity Stones as part of a gear grind so you can get into a group for an expert level instance?
....
Played Meridian 59, UO, EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, Asherons Call, AOC, Warhammer Online, GW1, GW2, Rift, Vanguard, etc.... Currently waiting for EQnext...
Yes, WoW's combat was always responsive. That's very different from Vanilla WoW having some bugs, but in general combat was very fluid.
Maybe OP should have just said GW2 since that is one of the few games in recent times that has come out with a smooth combat engine.
I agree. I think the #1 secret to WoW's longevity has been its fluid combat/gameplay. Combat in an MMO is the one thing everyone does pretty much full-time, so it is a pretty massive factor, whether people realize it on a conscious level or not.
I also have to agree with the GW2 part. GW2 is the only game that has come close to WoW in fluidity and smoothness with their combat system.
You can see plenty of games that wanted to take a shot at the genre, but failed due to funky combat animations or unresponsiveness. For that matter, I see alot of people complain about the acrobatics in GW2, but regardless, it had very smooth play.
Comments
I'm not exactly sure which MMO's you are playing, but no MMO I've played, and this includes mostly auto-attack/tab-targeting styles, have allowed me to stop what I'm doing and type something out in the middle of an intense fight.
VoIP is the most common and preferred way to communicate with your group during battles, and is much more intuitive than typing out to your groups. No serious guild in any MMO types messages and commands in chat during dungeon or raid battles, they use programs like Ventrilo, Mumble, TS, etc.
Combat really has nothing to do with community or socialization. In fact, it could actually encourage socializing if it is challenging enough by encouraging players to group together(See Dark Souls).
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
I agree 100% with this.
I wonder how we managed during the old EQ where there were no voice chat programs.. lol Oh thats right we used macros...
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Like others have said:
Risk vs Reward. (Proper death penalty, and difficult encounters)
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!
I quit wow only 2 months after it's release becouse I found the character controll and combat very dull.I never resub on that game so I would not know how it is today.
lol eq eq2...
#1 - don't listen to the loud and whiny minorities when it comes to game and class balance, or to the spoiled safemode themepark players who will inevitably want to turn this into WoW with better graphics, or to the few fanatics who will try to convince you to turn this game into a carebear PvE-only fest without open world PvAll.
#1 Not to listen to all those FFA PVP fanatics that want to turn this game into a gankfest....
Ahem.
Seriously, what EQN needs more than anything is a good launch.
Why can't MMO's have both? Why don't they have a great combat system AND great social/community aspects as well?
Why do we always have to pick two different games to play?
whatever it is its set in stone so ill go with with a good launch! as well ! OI and VR support!
Daisy Dukes shorts?
I don't think community/socializing has anything to do with combat style but the design of the world and whether there is a need to group or not. Games that are too solo friendly, non-trilogy or zerg inducing makes for lack of socializing. I know some people don't like "forced" grouping, but if content it too easy or no death penalties (and other casualization of games), people won't come together as a community as much, IMO.
From back to 2004 and today there was not ever 1 mmo that had the same fluid responsive press and action combat.
I tried all mmo inbetween and none matched WoW in that regard.
We are not talking about bugs or lag, but pure press keybinding and animation control.
GW2 comes close, FF ARR comes close, but WoW is still king of the hill and i find it just very strange that none matched it yet :P
Most definitely!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
And on that note.
It needs to not be WOW with houses.
right back at ya slick.
Less quests!
Less is more....
Darn developers work way too hard... They need to focus on the virtual world, socialization and a few key story lines and leave the rest up to the players!
The only MMO moments that stick with me over time are those that came out of social game play. Not developer designed story content!
What's more memorable, the time you and a buddy crossed some dangerous territory with your hearts in your throats, desperately attempting to get out alive or yet another boss fight that you watched on YouTube prior to completing?
What's more memorable, a nice afternoon guiding a newbie through a zone, helping them with gear and explaining the lay of the land or the first time you take down that dragon listening to a bunch of tweens yell and scream obscenities at some poor bugger who didn't know to stand by the dragon's left leg when he's about to swish his tail?
What's more memorable, the night 30 friends showed up to cheer for you as you waded ashore after leaping off the plane of air into the ocean after getting your epic weapon or getting the achievement for killing a bunch of chickens in a heroic instance you've completed 100+ times.
What's more memorable, sitting on a rock in the middle of an NPC camp, watching the sunrise with some buds, or bagging 12 snakes (for the 100th time) in order to gather 90 more Infinity Stones as part of a gear grind so you can get into a group for an expert level instance?
....
Played Meridian 59, UO, EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, Asherons Call, AOC, Warhammer Online, GW1, GW2, Rift, Vanguard, etc....
Currently waiting for EQnext...
I don't think it will be as fluid I find SoE always fails on this front. I find every single game they have made is clunky,
I agree. I think the #1 secret to WoW's longevity has been its fluid combat/gameplay. Combat in an MMO is the one thing everyone does pretty much full-time, so it is a pretty massive factor, whether people realize it on a conscious level or not.
I also have to agree with the GW2 part. GW2 is the only game that has come close to WoW in fluidity and smoothness with their combat system.
You can see plenty of games that wanted to take a shot at the genre, but failed due to funky combat animations or unresponsiveness. For that matter, I see alot of people complain about the acrobatics in GW2, but regardless, it had very smooth play.