I have yet to see a major driver issue with an ATI/AMD card since the AMD takeover in 2006. Before than yea, plenty but not after. With NVidia I have seen several major driver and hardware issues. Like the 90C is normal operating temperature issues, and 8k series crap outs.
Make this information viral and the power users and pro's may help fixing this bitch down, so EVERYONE can enjoy entertainment as it should be.
cheers ^^
Have had the same issues till 3 days ago when I took a real close look at my system. It's not the nVidia drivers (on my system) that's causing the crashes & BSODs I had but a combination of the Microsoft (late april 2013) update for C++ runtime library 2010 (x64 for my system) and AVG using that runtime library (which it should not).
After removing the C++ runtime library from my system all crashes and BSODs are gone *knocks on wood* and I can play EVERY game without any problem again. One game did install the C++ runtime library 2010 for x86 already and ever since Microsoft wants to install the update for it again (including the bugged one for x64 on my system), but I won't let it...
Please guys, check if this C++ update is bugging on your system as well. It's listed in 'Installed software' instead of the Windows Features. If should stand out in most cases because you most likely have no other installments on the day these libraries have been installed...
Originally posted by Cleffy I have yet to see a major driver issue with an ATI/AMD card since the AMD takeover in 2006. Before than yea, plenty but not after. With NVidia I have seen several major driver and hardware issues. Like the 90C is normal operating temperature issues, and 8k series crap outs.
Lucky to be you. After my 7970 I will never buy AMD again. Does your website have embedded video...hello green screen and hard restart. AMD keeps saying they will fix it and never do.
Just remember, a lot of people who buy nVidia do so because they have "better drivers".
/rolls eyes
I don't know about other peeps, but I buy Nvidia cards because I have had 8 amd cards over the course of the past 20 years and every one of them was nothing but driver issues and/or died within 12 months. I have yet to have a single NVidia card ever die on me and never had a driver issue. This has been with self built and pre-built systems at home and work (cooling is never an issue btw). I don't update my drivers unless I need to. This has been my experience with both companies for both desktops and mobile cards.
Cheers!
Which is interesting when you consider that there were no AMD video cards until 2006, and that's if you start counting from the day they announced the purchase of ATI. AMD-branded video cards haven't even been around for three years. If you've gone through eight cards that fast, you're doing something wrong.
Yea I know they used to be/are ATI cards. Everyone always says its the user, so after the first three I only had them in prebuilt systems and still had the same problems (Dell, Gateway, Asus, Cyberware, and HP). I have built numerous windows and linux based systems for home and at work, always issues with their drivers or chipsets. No overclocking or tweaking. As I stated, these have been my personal experiences with their cards. I hear good stories about them from some, but I have yet to have one.
Cheers!
I have to call BS. I've been building systems for more than 20 years and over that span I've had a variety of Nvidia and ATI cards - whichever had the best one going at the time of purchase. I have never had a single card from either "die" or "have nothing but bad drivers." Your 8 deaths are either iatrogenic or it's just plain BS.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Just remember the next time someone posts "Don't get AMD, get nVidia because I have used them for years and had ~0~ problems and had 9 ATI cards die on me"
To link back to this thread.
Not that I'm an AMD fanboy (my last computer had a 660 in it), but it really irks me to hear people spew baseless propaganda when they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
When you go to buy, you need to look at what options are available and what their individual merits are. People that go in with green-tinted glasses often drop the best options off the table before they even start. And it usually starts with people spewing baseless statements like that.
I've probably built over 20 systems as well, with probably a lot more graphics cards than that I can count (my first was a Cirrus Logic ISA card). I've had exactly 3 die on me (in cases which clearly weren't my fault or the fault of some other component causing it to fail)- one was an S3 Virge, one was an nVidia 8800, one was an ATI 9600. And even then I wouldn't place the blame on S3/nV/ATI - the cards were all made by 3rd parties, and it's much more likely that a component on the daughtercard failed other than the GPU.
Most of the time people are blowing through video cards, it's because they have a bad/crap power supply and just keep throwing video card after video card into the same system and wonder why they never work right.
Originally posted by Cleffy I have yet to see a major driver issue with an ATI/AMD card since the AMD takeover in 2006. Before than yea, plenty but not after. With NVidia I have seen several major driver and hardware issues. Like the 90C is normal operating temperature issues, and 8k series crap outs.
About two or three process nodes ago, 90 C was normal load operating temperatures--for both Nvidia and AMD/ATI. The problem is that Nvidia still let the early GF100 cards run that hot when the newer process node didn't handle those temperature well.
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by CleffyI have yet to see a major driver issue with an ATI/AMD card since the AMD takeover in 2006. Before than yea, plenty but not after. With NVidia I have seen several major driver and hardware issues. Like the 90C is normal operating temperature issues, and 8k series crap outs.
About two or three process nodes ago, 90 C was normal load operating temperatures--for both Nvidia and AMD/ATI. The problem is that Nvidia still let the early GF100 cards run that hot when the newer process node didn't handle those temperature well.
There was a huge problem with the 8600M GPU in particular, it would pretty much melt itself.
This one was fairly major, it affected a lot of laptops, not just Apple.
That being said, back to drivers; I would say that nVidia drivers for SLI are way superior to AMD's Crossfire, particularly if you are trying to work with 3+ cards, and has been so for a while now - but that's kinda like saying one bowl of crap stinks a bit less than another bowl of crap, because SLI/CF remain very much niche products with limited support all the way around.
And Cleffy was correct; back when ATI was ATI, their driver releases were glacial; on par with what Intel does now. Maybe two releases a year if you were lucky. Since AMD has come into play, and nVidia upped the ante with a monthly release schedule, AMD has been pretty much on par with nVidia for drivers. Both have their wobbles; this thread talks about nVidia's latest, but it's not a huge issue, AMD has had problems with drivers just the same (7970 release*cough*).
I just hate it when people come in raving about nVidia and how they are just so much better (it's almost always nVidia, you almost never see AMD fanboys) - so I just wanted this thread to stick in my mind so I can link back to it whenever I see that blind fanboyism creep up again.
Apple switches between ATI (I will keep calling them ATI now that they are AMD) and nvidia for every generation of notebooks (they do this to keep the competition going), so I have experienced both.
In OS X it really doesn't matter which brand of graphics card you have, the drivers are solid and pretty much identical since most of it is written by Apple themselves. They are writing the graphics drivers themselves because their complete desktop is extremely depended in a correct and identical functioning OpenGL.
However when I run Windows on these computers (Bootcamp, which is just a brand name for 'dual boot') nvidia is a lot better. The ATI drivers were simply bad, graphical glitches and crashes.
The last time I skipped the ATI generation of Apple notebooks. Now I bought a gaming laptop which I am pretty happy about. So maybe my next Apple notebook will be an ATI again because I only use Windows for gaming, and I will buy a sepperate notebook for gaming.
Keep in mind, 320.49 is the latest WHQL driver from NVIDIA. Personally, I have no problems across multiple games while using it. Any drivers you are using above that version are listed as BETA.
I'm running the 320.49 version since its release on my Asus GTX 470 and i haven't experienced any of the problems described here. Everything works fine.
And as the above poster states, the 320.49 is the latest certified version. 326.19 and 326.41 are listed as BETA.
Mostly suspect is this card generation change, that would mean, cards up to 5xx are affected, 6xx and higher are not.
The C++ runtime lib is also highly suspect, gimme some days to check all that out.
If it was a generation change than the older drivers should work normally. I even have downgraded to the 306.23 and 306.97 drivers which were stable on my system early March (after adding SLI on it) and even those were causing BSODs on my system. So the generation change (which was my initial thought as well) is not the issue here.
With that ruled out I checked my system on changes since March. The only thing I could find was the installment of AVG half March (used to run McAfee before that without problems), but AVG could not be it since the problems arose early May when playing Neverwinter after (what I thought) was an upgrade in drivers.
Since I already ruled out the drivers I looked further and noticed the C++ library. Ever since I removed that one my system seems stable (for 3 days already).
I run linux, have the latest drivers, and never have any issues. Pretty sure 99% of issues in windows are still most likely caused by windows, whether directly or indirectly. Even the few times I boot into windows, I'm still running the latest beta drivers and never have issues, so don't be so quick to blame nvidia or their drivers.
Just remember, a lot of people who buy nVidia do so because they have "better drivers".
/rolls eyes
I don't know about other peeps, but I buy Nvidia cards because I have had 8 amd cards over the course of the past 20 years and every one of them was nothing but driver issues and/or died within 12 months. I have yet to have a single NVidia card ever die on me and never had a driver issue. This has been with self built and pre-built systems at home and work (cooling is never an issue btw). I don't update my drivers unless I need to. This has been my experience with both companies for both desktops and mobile cards.
Cheers!
I'v had ATI cards every generation since the R300. None of them failed and very few driver problems.
I'm currently using 320.18, and haven't had a single crash, hickup or problem since the day it released.
I have 4.9ghz OC 3570k, 8Gb of ram, and 3x 670 GTXs in tri SLI.
Seeing people complain able driver issues makes me want to just keep the ones I got (If it ain't broke don't fix it), but I can't help but think it's just isolated cases and not really as rampant as some people are making it out to be.
"Apple switches between ATI (I will keep calling them ATI now that they are AMD) and nvidia for every generation of notebooks (they do this to keep the competition going), so I have experienced both.
In OS X it really doesn't matter which brand of graphics card you have, the drivers are solid and pretty much identical since most of it is written by Apple themselves. They are writing the graphics drivers themselves because their complete desktop is extremely depended in a correct and identical functioning OpenGL.
However when I run Windows on these computers (Bootcamp, which is just a brand name for 'dual boot') nvidia is a lot better. The ATI drivers were simply bad, graphical glitches and crashes.
The last time I skipped the ATI generation of Apple notebooks. Now I bought a gaming laptop which I am pretty happy about. So maybe my next Apple notebook will be an ATI again because I only use Windows for gaming, and I will buy a sepperate notebook for gaming."
Trying to quote your post directly doesn't work, so I'll try this.
AMD didn't care much if their notebook drivers worked until the Radeon HD 5000 series. Even after that, it was a while before they had discrete switchable graphics working. And when you're using discrete switchable graphics, you're often reliant on the hardware vendor to provide driver updates, so if a MacBook Pro doesn't work very well in Windows, it's not necessarily clear whether the problem is the graphics vendor or Apple.
Apple does write their own drivers for OS X, regardless of the hardware vendor. If you're using Intel graphics, this is surely a good thing; for AMD or Nvidia, not so much. While Apple does make sure that all of their hardware has the same functionality regardless of the hardware vendor, they unfortunately do this by restricting OS X functionality to the lowest common denominator of what all of the hardware can do. And that includes hardware that is several years old by now.
So while reliant on OpenGL for graphics (since DirectX is proprietary to Microsoft), they don't support any of the last six versions of OpenGL at all. Not supporting OpenGL 4.4 is understandable since it just launched; neither AMD nor Nvidia supports it in Windows just yet, either. But six consecutive versions that Apple simply refuses to support? I'm a lot less sympathetic to that; it means that Mac OS X graphics functionality is rather archaic by now.
Hmm-m, interesting. I have 320.49 beta drivers installed and I don't have any of the issues OP has. System performance is rock solid. I can keep Windows up for several days and I usually reboot only if updates make me to do that. I haven't expecienced any hickups or crashes. Game performance is smooth as well. My OS is windows 7 64-bit and I update weekly all the drivers and software and all that jazz.
Just remember, a lot of people who buy nVidia do so because they have "better drivers".
/rolls eyes
I don't know about other peeps, but I buy Nvidia cards because I have had 8 amd cards over the course of the past 20 years and every one of them was nothing but driver issues and/or died within 12 months. I have yet to have a single NVidia card ever die on me and never had a driver issue. This has been with self built and pre-built systems at home and work (cooling is never an issue btw). I don't update my drivers unless I need to. This has been my experience with both companies for both desktops and mobile cards.
Cheers!
Which is interesting when you consider that there were no AMD video cards until 2006, and that's if you start counting from the day they announced the purchase of ATI. AMD-branded video cards haven't even been around for three years. If you've gone through eight cards that fast, you're doing something wrong.
Yea I know they used to be/are ATI cards. Everyone always says its the user, so after the first three I only had them in prebuilt systems and still had the same problems (Dell, Gateway, Asus, Cyberware, and HP). I have built numerous windows and linux based systems for home and at work, always issues with their drivers or chipsets. No overclocking or tweaking. As I stated, these have been my personal experiences with their cards. I hear good stories about them from some, but I have yet to have one.
Cheers!
videocards hate you apparently.
Cheers!
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Comments
Well the problem has died down significantly since I rolled back the drivers so I assume it has something to do with Nvidia.
I was previously running 2011 bios firmware when I had the issue and now im running the latest from 2012. Didn't seem to make a difference.
If it was a hardware issue like my mouse cable then it would be happening almost constantly.
Have had the same issues till 3 days ago when I took a real close look at my system. It's not the nVidia drivers (on my system) that's causing the crashes & BSODs I had but a combination of the Microsoft (late april 2013) update for C++ runtime library 2010 (x64 for my system) and AVG using that runtime library (which it should not).
After removing the C++ runtime library from my system all crashes and BSODs are gone *knocks on wood* and I can play EVERY game without any problem again. One game did install the C++ runtime library 2010 for x86 already and ever since Microsoft wants to install the update for it again (including the bugged one for x64 on my system), but I won't let it...
Please guys, check if this C++ update is bugging on your system as well. It's listed in 'Installed software' instead of the Windows Features. If should stand out in most cases because you most likely have no other installments on the day these libraries have been installed...
Lucky to be you. After my 7970 I will never buy AMD again. Does your website have embedded video...hello green screen and hard restart. AMD keeps saying they will fix it and never do.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
I have to call BS. I've been building systems for more than 20 years and over that span I've had a variety of Nvidia and ATI cards - whichever had the best one going at the time of purchase. I have never had a single card from either "die" or "have nothing but bad drivers." Your 8 deaths are either iatrogenic or it's just plain BS.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Just remember the next time someone posts "Don't get AMD, get nVidia because I have used them for years and had ~0~ problems and had 9 ATI cards die on me"
To link back to this thread.
Not that I'm an AMD fanboy (my last computer had a 660 in it), but it really irks me to hear people spew baseless propaganda when they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
When you go to buy, you need to look at what options are available and what their individual merits are. People that go in with green-tinted glasses often drop the best options off the table before they even start. And it usually starts with people spewing baseless statements like that.
I've probably built over 20 systems as well, with probably a lot more graphics cards than that I can count (my first was a Cirrus Logic ISA card). I've had exactly 3 die on me (in cases which clearly weren't my fault or the fault of some other component causing it to fail)- one was an S3 Virge, one was an nVidia 8800, one was an ATI 9600. And even then I wouldn't place the blame on S3/nV/ATI - the cards were all made by 3rd parties, and it's much more likely that a component on the daughtercard failed other than the GPU.
Most of the time people are blowing through video cards, it's because they have a bad/crap power supply and just keep throwing video card after video card into the same system and wonder why they never work right.
About two or three process nodes ago, 90 C was normal load operating temperatures--for both Nvidia and AMD/ATI. The problem is that Nvidia still let the early GF100 cards run that hot when the newer process node didn't handle those temperature well.
On the watchlist now:
- C++ runtime library
- bios
- card generation change 5xx to 6+
Thanks for the replys so far.
Im gonna check out how to and if there is a new bios for my gfx card available.
While on that, a Bios upgrade on PC, let see if there is a new one.
Mostly suspect is this card generation change, that would mean, cards up to 5xx are affected, 6xx and higher are not.
The C++ runtime lib is also highly suspect, gimme some days to check all that out.
This is a thread to get feedback on your Nvidia cards and possible issues.
I made it, because i really want to enjoy the newest driver, but the crashes nagg me hard, i just want to play
Would be awesome if we could find the bugged part here ^^
There was a huge problem with the 8600M GPU in particular, it would pretty much melt itself.
http://www.infoworld.com/t/hardware/nvidia-reports-problem-laptop-chips-869
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/04/18/1629235/macbook-owner-with-defective-gpu-beats-apple-in-court
This one was fairly major, it affected a lot of laptops, not just Apple.
That being said, back to drivers; I would say that nVidia drivers for SLI are way superior to AMD's Crossfire, particularly if you are trying to work with 3+ cards, and has been so for a while now - but that's kinda like saying one bowl of crap stinks a bit less than another bowl of crap, because SLI/CF remain very much niche products with limited support all the way around.
And Cleffy was correct; back when ATI was ATI, their driver releases were glacial; on par with what Intel does now. Maybe two releases a year if you were lucky. Since AMD has come into play, and nVidia upped the ante with a monthly release schedule, AMD has been pretty much on par with nVidia for drivers. Both have their wobbles; this thread talks about nVidia's latest, but it's not a huge issue, AMD has had problems with drivers just the same (7970 release*cough*).
I just hate it when people come in raving about nVidia and how they are just so much better (it's almost always nVidia, you almost never see AMD fanboys) - so I just wanted this thread to stick in my mind so I can link back to it whenever I see that blind fanboyism creep up again.
Apple switches between ATI (I will keep calling them ATI now that they are AMD) and nvidia for every generation of notebooks (they do this to keep the competition going), so I have experienced both.
In OS X it really doesn't matter which brand of graphics card you have, the drivers are solid and pretty much identical since most of it is written by Apple themselves. They are writing the graphics drivers themselves because their complete desktop is extremely depended in a correct and identical functioning OpenGL.
However when I run Windows on these computers (Bootcamp, which is just a brand name for 'dual boot') nvidia is a lot better. The ATI drivers were simply bad, graphical glitches and crashes.
The last time I skipped the ATI generation of Apple notebooks. Now I bought a gaming laptop which I am pretty happy about. So maybe my next Apple notebook will be an ATI again because I only use Windows for gaming, and I will buy a sepperate notebook for gaming.
Keep in mind, 320.49 is the latest WHQL driver from NVIDIA. Personally, I have no problems across multiple games while using it. Any drivers you are using above that version are listed as BETA.
I'm running the 320.49 version since its release on my Asus GTX 470 and i haven't experienced any of the problems described here. Everything works fine.
And as the above poster states, the 320.49 is the latest certified version. 326.19 and 326.41 are listed as BETA.
If it was a generation change than the older drivers should work normally. I even have downgraded to the 306.23 and 306.97 drivers which were stable on my system early March (after adding SLI on it) and even those were causing BSODs on my system. So the generation change (which was my initial thought as well) is not the issue here.
With that ruled out I checked my system on changes since March. The only thing I could find was the installment of AVG half March (used to run McAfee before that without problems), but AVG could not be it since the problems arose early May when playing Neverwinter after (what I thought) was an upgrade in drivers.
Since I already ruled out the drivers I looked further and noticed the C++ library. Ever since I removed that one my system seems stable (for 3 days already).
Blogpost I made with my assessment on the problem: http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=1775
(bugged?) C++ Library update info from Microsoft: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2467173
I'v had ATI cards every generation since the R300. None of them failed and very few driver problems.
I'm calling bullshit.
I'm currently using 320.18, and haven't had a single crash, hickup or problem since the day it released.
I have 4.9ghz OC 3570k, 8Gb of ram, and 3x 670 GTXs in tri SLI.
Seeing people complain able driver issues makes me want to just keep the ones I got (If it ain't broke don't fix it), but I can't help but think it's just isolated cases and not really as rampant as some people are making it out to be.
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"Apple switches between ATI (I will keep calling them ATI now that they are AMD) and nvidia for every generation of notebooks (they do this to keep the competition going), so I have experienced both.
In OS X it really doesn't matter which brand of graphics card you have, the drivers are solid and pretty much identical since most of it is written by Apple themselves. They are writing the graphics drivers themselves because their complete desktop is extremely depended in a correct and identical functioning OpenGL.
However when I run Windows on these computers (Bootcamp, which is just a brand name for 'dual boot') nvidia is a lot better. The ATI drivers were simply bad, graphical glitches and crashes.
The last time I skipped the ATI generation of Apple notebooks. Now I bought a gaming laptop which I am pretty happy about. So maybe my next Apple notebook will be an ATI again because I only use Windows for gaming, and I will buy a sepperate notebook for gaming."
Trying to quote your post directly doesn't work, so I'll try this.
AMD didn't care much if their notebook drivers worked until the Radeon HD 5000 series. Even after that, it was a while before they had discrete switchable graphics working. And when you're using discrete switchable graphics, you're often reliant on the hardware vendor to provide driver updates, so if a MacBook Pro doesn't work very well in Windows, it's not necessarily clear whether the problem is the graphics vendor or Apple.
Apple does write their own drivers for OS X, regardless of the hardware vendor. If you're using Intel graphics, this is surely a good thing; for AMD or Nvidia, not so much. While Apple does make sure that all of their hardware has the same functionality regardless of the hardware vendor, they unfortunately do this by restricting OS X functionality to the lowest common denominator of what all of the hardware can do. And that includes hardware that is several years old by now.
So while reliant on OpenGL for graphics (since DirectX is proprietary to Microsoft), they don't support any of the last six versions of OpenGL at all. Not supporting OpenGL 4.4 is understandable since it just launched; neither AMD nor Nvidia supports it in Windows just yet, either. But six consecutive versions that Apple simply refuses to support? I'm a lot less sympathetic to that; it means that Mac OS X graphics functionality is rather archaic by now.
OvO Insulting apple?
(Takes out a life insurance policy on Quizical)
Ooo I didn't realize ogl 4.4 came out. I need to look at the new features.
Hmm-m, interesting. I have 320.49 beta drivers installed and I don't have any of the issues OP has. System performance is rock solid. I can keep Windows up for several days and I usually reboot only if updates make me to do that. I haven't expecienced any hickups or crashes. Game performance is smooth as well. My OS is windows 7 64-bit and I update weekly all the drivers and software and all that jazz.
Edit: Win 7 64-bit, i7-3770k @ 4,6 GHz , 16GB, 680 GTX, 2x Crucial m4 256GB SSD, Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB, Xonar DGX 5.1.
There's not much there, really.
https://www.khronos.org/news/press/khronos-releases-opengl-4.4-specification
For Windows, AMD and Nvidia just recently released their first OpenGL 4.3 compliant drivers, even. But 4.3 was a bigger deal than 4.4.
videocards hate you apparently.
Cheers!
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse