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This game has too many unresolved issues.
CalmOceans
Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
Watching the Q&A panel made me realise, as I suspected, that this team has no solution for the inherent problems of action combat that GW2 has.
Someone asked the question how a lack of trinity, is going fix the issue of tanks and healers in the game, and how they are going to avoid the issues GW2 has. Their answer is simply:
"Everyone is DPS"
It's like they don't realise the issues with action combat or didn't anticipate these questions.
I think this game is severely underdeveloped and they have no idea whatsoever on how to fix gameplay issues when they copy the action combat system and remove trinity and aggro.
Let alone all the community and raid issues this system creates.
The fact they said earlier in the video that they think having to rely on other classes in a raid is a bad system, but don't offer an alternative except making everyone DPS and removing tanks and healers, is staggering.
It's completely mindboggling how this game that has more holes in their system than swiss cheese got "best MMORPG of E3"
Comments
[mod edit]
I have said it many times now since SOE said no tanks or healers.
There is no solution for making dps classes only to tune contend harder or more difficult.
It will always be chaos as you cannot controll it, who or when or why a player is attacked creates confusion, it creates zerg, it creates button mashing, it creates running away to live another day instead of playing tactical.
These issues plague GW2 also, and Arenanet aint a bad studio, they are one of the best.
Wether you like the GW series or not, they have done some spectacular things.
But they cant fix the nature of the beast, and SOE cant either.
They are realy making a mistake on epic proportions here, i cannot stress enough that after an hour of gameplay you get bored of the combat, no matter how cool the skills or animations look.
Its just a action rpg style of play and for most mmo players this is unaceptible.
There is alot of good in EQN, fully understand their vision, but cannot think about no healers or tanks and the shit zerging that will happen that drags this game down to a simpleton you log in for fun for a hour or 2 and log out again.
No levels ? fine its a wait and see thing for me
Multi layer ? EPIC - 1 word EPIC
Public events - cool - but the whole game ? no raids ? another major mistake
8 skill action bars - hate it, will always hate it specialy with no healers or tanks.
free to play - very disapointed about it, but it seems its the way it is nothing we can do about it.
Disney cartoon characters - dont like it, but i can learn to live with it.
PvP - a wait and see, havent heared anything about it yet, it makes me worry alot.
real money diablo 3 style auction house - almost a deal breaker.....
No tanks and healers - thats the deal breaker for me.
I can live with many of the wrongs they do, but making 5 good and 2 bads doesnt make it worth my time or money.
[mod edit]
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
lol, everyone does damage, 40 DPS classes, now we know why that warrior was doing donut spins, no aggro, everyone does the faceroll
Hardcore gamers cares about combat features in a group environment, the press was so busy being amazed by the 4 big design features that they never asked the hard questions about combat.
We did see a minute or two of game play in the presentations, and that part didn't really help changing our point of view.
I think the ball is clearly with SOE on this point. Saying "our medicine keeps you young forever", might have worked in the middle ages, but noone should be believed on their blue eyes. The issues are known for other games, yet how SOE thinks they are going to solve it are unclear. So EQN team, how exactly are you coping with the issues that plague other gaming teams?
Yes you can implement a good system they are just too stupid to come up with a solution.
Worked for 10+ years on the PS2/3 with FinalFantasy XI and now FFXIV.
Controller can do much more than that as seen in FFXIV with the cross skill bar (you can switch the 16 skills with the controller too, for a total of 8 bars x 16 skills):
Just saying...
Seriously ? Did you actually listen to the video OP? Because to me the question was answered. Even referencing games that have action combat that are having issues with tanks and healers.
Stop trying to spin stuff said by the developers. It's like you are trying to push an agenda. I mean do you work for a rival company or what?
SOE should really hire you guys, you seem to know so much about game development and what EQN is all about that they'd sure profit from your expertise.
I mean, we've seen some tiny tidbits of pre-alpha "gameplay" and you're all over the place with your predictions and judgments about how the combat and classes will work.
A lack of trinity only mean chaos and zerging if you keep the old PvE mechanics as you remove traditional tanking and healing. Have you ever considered the possibility that PvE in this game might not be the traditional MMO PvE with stupid mobs and scripted AI? That it maight involve a new concept of skillful play and player coordination, where the tired old tank n' spank mechanic becomes obsolete?
They've already mentioned that mob AI will be of a new and different kind, so at least wait until they've had a chance to prove this before writing the combat off as a no-skill zergfest.
LOL!
There's so much fail with this game. /facepalm
They need to go back, pick up the scrapped version and make Everquest Next the way it should be with trinity, progression and all.
Just look at the hype meter, it's dropping rapidly. Clearly, we're not alone in this.
I haven't seen a game yet, just mostly a concept on paper which is sounding ok and in some parts great to me. I will judge the game when we are able to play the public 'beta'.
As for the mentioned potential issues by the OP, are just that. It is potentially a problem, depending on how you want to perceive their answers.
If a developer says : we don't want you having to rely on other classes, it could mean :
- there is no mandatory class needed for a raid, meaning most classes can spec themselves as different roles
- there is no support class.
- the groupcontent is just zerg (which GW2 dungeons are not, to use the OP's example)
My impression is that they meant that there is no mandatory support class for group content. The oldschool healerclass that only watched hp bars is not going to be in EQNext. This doesn't mean that the old holy trinity setup is bad, it was just bad that this setup was locked into specific classes. Which became mandatory to have in your group for that reason. This posed to be a problem with forming groups in any MMO with healing classes I played. So I agree with their vision. But, it is still just on paper, who knows how it will be implemented.
I am not a fan of GW2's combat either, but having no static holy trinity classes, is one of the things I like about GW2.
It was said by the Mr Butler and the panel that they do not want players watching their UI's while fighting.. This means they do NOT want you looking at others peoples health bars.. If I am to ignore my groups health and cool downs, then what exactly is combat? Sounds to me like another twitch action based console game..
/shrug
It is about pulling your own weight,
with 40 classes you can still take all the tank abilities from them and tank same as heal....Get away from the trinity it is not needed as much as you all think.
Yep I have already determined about 10 to a dozen people on these forums must be time travelers. Especially with some of the outrageous claims and predictions I keep seeing.
/facepalm
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There was tanking and healing in eqoa and that was on PS2.
Fixed
That makes no sense lol. I'm pretty sure that the old tank'n'spank holy trinity system is easier on resources then a twitchbased combat system. It think it has nothing to do with consoles, but more so with latency.
Nowadays most ppl's internet connection and the game's server hardware allows for more twitchbased combat without getting too much latency issues.
That's the thing... they have not gone into anything beyond very basic and vague detail. etc etc etc Its rather hard to judge how a game will or will not play when nobody has tried it ... that is posting about it.
Resolved or not.. how can you tell what issues a game has... that you haven't tried... or let me rephrase that no one who will talk to you has tried. As opposed to a game in beta or *live* that someone could at least give you their opinion on.
The game might suck... it might be great but at the moment its a bit hard to tell.
Weird how it was ok for people to speculate about what EQN for the past year or two, and nobody minded all the good things people dreamed up. But now that people have seen a lil bit of the game, and SOE finally let the cat out of the bag, people can't seem to question things without being mocked. I suppose imagination is only ok if people are saying what you want to hear.
There are definitely many unresolved issues with EQN. Part of the blame goes to Smed for saying during last year's SOE fan faire that this year people would have a real game to demo. Now that SOE Live has gone and went, many questions are still unanswered, people still don't know how the game will play, and SOE devs have avoided many questions regarding combat, PvP, or destructibility. If people are questioning these things now, it's only because SOE failed to tell us about it during the past few days.
A lot of people's concerns regarding GW2 combat are valid. While I personally don't have an issue with GW2 combat, I know many others do. It's very clear SOE copied GW2's combat almost completely, including the circle ring markers on the ground. So it's natural for folks to want to question about combat seeing how SOE changed how Everquest fanbase knew how to play Everquest.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Exactly. I loled every time a question was asked about combat and roles. They are screwed if they don't make a drastic change to their plan in this regard.
Roundtable should give them a way out. I hope in the coming months they start seeking more player feedback on these type of things so they can appear to gracefully bow out and allow the EQ fans to have the sort of game they want, which most definitely won't have GW2 combat. I don't believe any amount "emergent AI" will keep their combat from sucking.
The limited abilities, and 40 ish classes, I imagine it would be hard to not have preferred builds that people min/max, despite what they say. Unless they plan on the same attack ability/spell doing the same damage, but having different visuals, and this is what will make people want a class over others or something.
I also worry about the horizontal progression, I can be fine with it, if it is maybe done well, but it will not be true horizontal, because they still will have items that help with your combos and this make you more powerful....These items or crafted good will have to make me want to go explore/kill for them.
I missed what these tiers in the classes do, I tried to look it up, but I didn't find much, if someone knows.
No trinity, limited abilities, I usually play a caster, and I do not play a caster that is in there hitting things, I played a necro, so what is my weapon bar going to look like? 4 spell abilities seems rather small/bland, I have seen people say they didn't use more in old EQ, but I often had atleast 9-10 that I wanted to have up on my spell bar as a necro. I did not like the classes in NW/GW2, they felt shallow, so hopefully these do not suffer from that. The no trinity thing makes me think they are going to have to really come up with something that makes it so people have a role other than dps
Their is a lot more, but that's a start for my concerns.
I was in the camp, that had hoped that they were going to bring back more original EQ1 play, but looking at things, this new direction almost seems like we should of seem it coming...If the gear and things I will aquire do not make me want them, then I do not see me wanting to play, because I will have to want to log in and do things, but if I don't see the need, or I can spend $10 and pay to get whatever I need, then I will probably not see it being worth my time.