Originally posted by Rockniss Voxels - imagine that gw2 arrow carts, catapults, castles, keeps... were made of voxels and they just blew into peices when you smashed them. ( The catapulists loads another round, Rockniss heroic leaps and and with one hit smashes it into a million peices) " Oh I am sorry were you using that?"
I'm very excited about this feature. But after chatting with their lead programmer, I have one concern.
The world will 'grow' back. Currently set (during SOE Live) at 5 minutes after destruction for EQN: Landmark. All is good here, unlimited resources based on time, but will rocks grow back? Rocks can grow? Neat? Also, their base terrain is based on a procedural algorithm, so the world will regrow back to the original shape.
*updated* The problem with this is what if you are digging a hole straight into a mountain. It takes you 10 minutes to get through, halfway you run into something that you cant get through. You have to dig out, you cant run out because the hole has closed. That could cause some mechanic issues.
This is how a programmer handles your question. If you dig a hole, the hole will grow back. If you dig a mine, you will have to build reinforcing structure to keep the mine from caving in on its self. This is done in the real world by adding wooden arches every one or two yards.
Another tool we can use is called First In Last Out (FILO). This means the cave / mine starts growing back where you last were digging, and it can't close in behind you. So when you stop digging or working on the cave/tunnel/mine you start a timer I call the neglect timer. When you have neglected working on a mine for a week or month, it will start to grow back. First deep inside the cave and last to close, the cave mouth.
If you destroy a quest structure , a NPC capital city, or even a road, that will probably start to grow back in 5 minutes.
Good points. Also, I'm a software engineer and I do understand your points. I am very interested in what limits they will put in. IE: Building tunnels all the way across the base of a mountain could make a confusing site. As the mountain will be held up by small pieces of land.
I have not heard anything about retaining structures after you have dug a hole, I would be interested to hear from the devs on this point.
I have not heard how much control players will have over the world building in EQN, only landmark. Thus, speculation on the topic.
We already know that SOE has the ability to turn off destruction in areas if they want. Odds are the static NPC cities and important landmarks won't be destructable or will only be partially so.
True. I agree the devs will limit what they feel is inappropriate. They gave the example of 'claiming on the newbie spawn point' in one of the panels.
The point of my post though, was to point out the fact that a mold-able world will probably create sites that do not look normal, since I do not believe the procedural based terrain will contain physics considerations. Even with great planning, they may find themselves with some strange looking areas if lots of people dig then fortify.
Who said you could dig and fortify? I may have missed this, but all I saw was the ability to destroy things in combat, and to dig holes. I don't think construction is going to be allowed anywhere destruction is, though the player housing areas may be different. Still, I don't imagine SOE letting their game become a mess. The wonder of programming code is that you can change it if need be,.
Ah sorry, my answer was partially to Konfess and partially to you MindTrigger. Konfess said, "If you dig a hole, the hole will grow back. If you dig a mine, you will have to build reinforcing structure to keep the mine from caving in on its self."
There seems to be a lot of speculation over what systems will be in place, and how everything will work. I agree though, it wont become a mess.
And to an earlier post ... infinite terrain is possible yes, just not practical.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by TorvaldrOriginally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by RocknissOriginally posted by FoomerangThe only thing that worries me is what kind of mega beast pc im gonna need to be able to handle 100+ people on my screen blowing shit up.
Me too, after the reveal I sold my last pc off because I knew it wasn't going to be enough considering everything is voxels, either let me play on ps4 or I am going to have to buy a system that is alot better than the one I hadOh yeah I forgot about PS4. I'll just play it on that haha. It's not hard to build a reasonably priced PC that blows the PS4 hardware out the water. I can't imagine it being difficult to run on a PC but the PS4 has no problems.It's not just about destroying the world. It's about environmental interactivity. This will be a game changer even if EQN ends up being a mediocre game. The barrier has been broken for MMOs. Just like the dynamic question from WAR has evolved through Rift, and GW2 and will continue to grow, so will this have a lasting effect on MMO game design going forward. No longer will completely static worlds be acceptable as the norm. I think in the not too distant future we will look at games with static barriers (walls, trees, etc) as confining, limiting, and "on rails" the same way we do with zone boundaries now.Its possible it could go that way.I think the next few games after this will be interesting to watch as they take these ideas and improve on them. Instead of looking at a single game to solve all our 'problems' we would be better served by looking at a string of games and the steps they are taking to move design concepts forward.
Imagine if Camelot Unchained takes these ideas, improves, and builds on them. It could change how RvR games work.
These changes could reshape and drive how deeply we interact with our world not to mention the possibilities it can offer for non-stabby activities. SoE doesn't even have to get this "right". They have opened the door for the mmo genre and that is a really good thing. We need a little more of that and to try and support that type of thinking in our developers.
I think it's good to question, criticize, and critically think. That is always in short supply, but I find it disheartening that after clamoring for new and different, less of the same, and "no more wow clones" that so many are panning an effort by SoE to move forward instead of just rehashing what they've already delivered with an easy cash grab.
I agree. Devs are pushing towards more interactive worlds. The next logical step would be to allow players to interact with it in more ways than just combat. So first we smashed dragons, then we smashed each other, now we smash the world. We'll eventually get there, right?
Maybe I am just not seeing it, but besides the ability to dig/teraform and using it to discover things and maybe build something, smashing walls in scenery and things around me do not excite me much...I am not going to get all giggly because I destroyed a cart, wall, steps, ground...It doesn't do much for me, when they were doing the presentation and acting like destructible stuff was like winning the lottery, I wasn't seeing it. Destroying stuff to feel cool, big explosions, action animations, just don't do much for me.
I am not saying I am not playing, or that I won't find things I like about it, like the exploring, or being in a dungeon and having to maybe go through a wall or something to discover something, but exterior environment being destroyed for the sake of it being just cool....ZzzZZzzzz
I am please to meet you, because you claim not to get the fun in a destructive environment. The fun comes from the suffering and pain of the builders when they find the structures gone. I can't link you a minecraft video because I don't favorite them. But crafters make elaborate structures and leave their servers open for viewing. Unfortunately they don't limit the privilege settings and fans of destruction come along and destroy everything. And this is the functionality that SOE is building into EQN. I expect that SOE will sell an indestructible setting in their cash shop.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Originally posted by FoomerangThe only thing that worries me is what kind of mega beast pc im gonna need to be able to handle 100+ people on my screen blowing shit up.
Me too, after the reveal I sold my last pc off because I knew it wasn't going to be enough considering everything is voxels, either let me play on ps4 or I am going to have to buy a system that is alot better than the one I had
Oh yeah I forgot about PS4. I'll just play it on that haha.
It's not hard to build a reasonably priced PC that blows the PS4 hardware out the water. I can't imagine it being difficult to run on a PC but the PS4 has no problems.It's not just about destroying the world. It's about environmental interactivity. This will be a game changer even if EQN ends up being a mediocre game. The barrier has been broken for MMOs. Just like the dynamic question from WAR has evolved through Rift, and GW2 and will continue to grow, so will this have a lasting effect on MMO game design going forward. No longer will completely static worlds be acceptable as the norm. I think in the not too distant future we will look at games with static barriers (walls, trees, etc) as confining, limiting, and "on rails" the same way we do with zone boundaries now.
Its possible it could go that way.
I think the next few games after this will be interesting to watch as they take these ideas and improve on them. Instead of looking at a single game to solve all our 'problems' we would be better served by looking at a string of games and the steps they are taking to move design concepts forward.
Imagine if Camelot Unchained takes these ideas, improves, and builds on them. It could change how RvR games work.
These changes could reshape and drive how deeply we interact with our world not to mention the possibilities it can offer for non-stabby activities. SoE doesn't even have to get this "right". They have opened the door for the mmo genre and that is a really good thing. We need a little more of that and to try and support that type of thinking in our developers.
I think it's good to question, criticize, and critically think. That is always in short supply, but I find it disheartening that after clamoring for new and different, less of the same, and "no more wow clones" that so many are panning an effort by SoE to move forward instead of just rehashing what they've already delivered with an easy cash grab.
I agree. Devs are pushing towards more interactive worlds. The next logical step would be to allow players to interact with it in more ways than just combat. So first we smashed dragons, then we smashed each other, now we smash the world. We'll eventually get there, right?
We have been given a glimpse now of whats Next, and the title definately fits EqNext. After i witnessed the reveal, I couldnt stop thinking about how Voxels are a game changer, voxels and smart ai together are what next gen is tapping into, and after seeing the voxels in action and knowing the team is working on smart ai, I am finding it hard to play current gen titles. GW2 came out last year, but the EQNext partial demo we saw makes me feel like GW2 is already obsolete. The games right now just are not as fun when i know what they could be if only the technology would havd been in place.
Originally posted by Rockniss We have been given a glimpse now of whats Next, and the title definately fits EqNext. After i witnessed the reveal, I couldnt stop thinking about how Voxels are a game changer, voxels and smart ai together are what next gen is tapping into, and after seeing the voxels in action and knowing the team is working on smart ai, I am finding it hard to play current gen titles. GW2 came out last year, but the EQNext partial demo we saw makes me feel like GW2 is already obsolete. The games right now just are not as fun when i know what they could be if only the technology would havd been in place.
I wouldn't let a game you wont see for 2+ years hinder you from enjoying great games that are out now. If you chase that dragon, you'll never be satisfied.
Comments
Yeah it means that since this is only one of the points that some of the target will like to break things
Ah sorry, my answer was partially to Konfess and partially to you MindTrigger. Konfess said, "If you dig a hole, the hole will grow back. If you dig a mine, you will have to build reinforcing structure to keep the mine from caving in on its self."
There seems to be a lot of speculation over what systems will be in place, and how everything will work. I agree though, it wont become a mess.
And to an earlier post ... infinite terrain is possible yes, just not practical.
Oh yeah I forgot about PS4. I'll just play it on that haha.
It's not hard to build a reasonably priced PC that blows the PS4 hardware out the water. I can't imagine it being difficult to run on a PC but the PS4 has no problems. It's not just about destroying the world. It's about environmental interactivity. This will be a game changer even if EQN ends up being a mediocre game. The barrier has been broken for MMOs. Just like the dynamic question from WAR has evolved through Rift, and GW2 and will continue to grow, so will this have a lasting effect on MMO game design going forward. No longer will completely static worlds be acceptable as the norm. I think in the not too distant future we will look at games with static barriers (walls, trees, etc) as confining, limiting, and "on rails" the same way we do with zone boundaries now.
Its possible it could go that way.
I think the next few games after this will be interesting to watch as they take these ideas and improve on them. Instead of looking at a single game to solve all our 'problems' we would be better served by looking at a string of games and the steps they are taking to move design concepts forward.
Imagine if Camelot Unchained takes these ideas, improves, and builds on them. It could change how RvR games work.
These changes could reshape and drive how deeply we interact with our world not to mention the possibilities it can offer for non-stabby activities. SoE doesn't even have to get this "right". They have opened the door for the mmo genre and that is a really good thing. We need a little more of that and to try and support that type of thinking in our developers.
I think it's good to question, criticize, and critically think. That is always in short supply, but I find it disheartening that after clamoring for new and different, less of the same, and "no more wow clones" that so many are panning an effort by SoE to move forward instead of just rehashing what they've already delivered with an easy cash grab.
I agree. Devs are pushing towards more interactive worlds. The next logical step would be to allow players to interact with it in more ways than just combat. So first we smashed dragons, then we smashed each other, now we smash the world. We'll eventually get there, right?
I am please to meet you, because you claim not to get the fun in a destructive environment. The fun comes from the suffering and pain of the builders when they find the structures gone. I can't link you a minecraft video because I don't favorite them. But crafters make elaborate structures and leave their servers open for viewing. Unfortunately they don't limit the privilege settings and fans of destruction come along and destroy everything. And this is the functionality that SOE is building into EQN. I expect that SOE will sell an indestructible setting in their cash shop.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
"Everything" I would assume means "that they want you to be able to destroy"
Keep that in mind.
We have been given a glimpse now of whats Next, and the title definately fits EqNext. After i witnessed the reveal, I couldnt stop thinking about how Voxels are a game changer, voxels and smart ai together are what next gen is tapping into, and after seeing the voxels in action and knowing the team is working on smart ai, I am finding it hard to play current gen titles. GW2 came out last year, but the EQNext partial demo we saw makes me feel like GW2 is already obsolete. The games right now just are not as fun when i know what they could be if only the technology would havd been in place.
I wouldn't let a game you wont see for 2+ years hinder you from enjoying great games that are out now. If you chase that dragon, you'll never be satisfied.