Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.
8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?
I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...
Considering a lot of people have mention EQ had this. I would say this is not a new generation of gamers thing, but an old concept.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 I am wary of them limiting classes to two weapon sets, however the 4 + 4 approach to combat and utility skills is just fine. I dislike having 30 buttons spread out across 4 action bars and my screen looking like the HUD (Heads Up Display) of a fighter jet. I want to focus on the world and my surroundings, not button mashing.
That's just a lame excuse passed down by devs trying to dumb down the genre to attract more people.. When you're in combat with those MMOs that have a lot of hot bars skills you don't use more than 5 to 10 skills anyway and if you do it's situational. Most of them are buffs or prep skills you use before you go into combat. You will still button mash.. Don't kid yourself about that.. Just like you button mash in DCUO or gw2 or whatever other MMO that uses less skills..
Originally posted by VidirEQnext more and more sound like a GW2 clone to me witch I dont like.
Then don't play. If you don't like it don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to play it, so don't.Everyone, please stop complaining. If you don't like the way the game is turning out, then don't play it. Or do.Just stop complaining.
Or you give feedback to the devs and they might change their mind depending on how many people would agree with a change.
Depends on how much it would cost too. They aren't going to spend a million dollars on something if what they have works just fine. Especially when what they have is something that is tailored for the future plans of the game. Like releasing the game on consoles.
That is always a factor, I just hate posts like "don't like it, don't play it" especially in games that are still deep in development. If the player's don't raise their voices have zero justification to complain about not having a game they like to play.
Originally posted by Vidir EQnext more and more sound like a GW2 clone to me witch I dont like.
Then don't play. If you don't like it don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to play it, so don't.
Everyone, please stop complaining. If you don't like the way the game is turning out, then don't play it. Or do.
Just stop complaining.
Or you give feedback to the devs and they might change their mind depending on how many people would agree with a change.
Perhaps, but most complaints I hear are "these graphics sux so therefore the game sux". And usually that's not an exaggeration. I have seen almost no constructive criticism, just complaining and moaning.
The problem is soe took a look at what other games were doing.
Rift - soul system
gw - weapon system
gw2 - live questing that changes the world
mincraft - upgraded
So what you got was a mismatch of all the top games add them together and bam, soe trying to be something for everybody, and you know where that will land you, a failing game off the start.
The missed totally the folks from eq and eq2, and slapped them in the face.
The problem is soe took a look at what other games were doing.
Rift - soul system
gw - weapon system
gw2 - live questing that changes the world
mincraft - upgraded
So what you got was a mismatch of all the top games add them together and bam, soe trying to be something for everybody, and you know where that will land you, a failing game off the start.
The missed totally the folks from eq and eq2, and slapped them in the face.
Oh yeah, just like WoW took different features from different games and they failed so hard from start nobody even heard of it.
Originally posted by vorpal28 original EQ had limited slots to, it forced you to make choices and oh wow maybe have some skill at playing...
Ya funny how you just skim over the fact that eq 1 had limited skills also. I am pretty much happy in the fact that I only have 8 skills. Now as long as they make challenging enough content that will make it difficult to use those 8 skills.
Pretty sure they brainstormed and some guy said for laughs that instead of having the common 4 classes with 40 skills each, they'd do 40 classes with 4 skills each instead, seems legit. Not really a good idea though, people are supposed to put effort in to get better, that's how you become smarter. Not sure chess would be very popular if the grid was 4x4 with 2 pieces on each side. Understand?
Dumber is not the way to go... and nobody strives for it.
The 8 skills doesn't bother me too much, as long as the options are interesting.
I am a little worried that you can acquire and pick skills from any class you've unlocked, as it takes some of the flavor out of the individual classes. In the original everquest, wizards could teleport you across the world and shamans had long duration buffs. But now someone could just load in and out each of these abilities on their multi-class character, and min-maxing may end up reducing variability between characters.
Pretty sure they brainstormed and some guy said for laughs that instead of having the common 4 classes with 40 skills each, they'd do 40 classes with 4 skills each instead, seems legit. Not really a good idea though, people are supposed to put effort in to get better, that's how you become smarter. Not sure chess would be very popular if the grid was 4x4 with 2 pieces on each side. Understand?
Dumber is not the way to go... and nobody strives for it.
Lol oh boy.
This thread is a good read, each page in fact. Anyway my stance is that im for it. In fact +1 for what Butros said.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Vidir EQnext more and more sound like a GW2 clone to me witch I dont like.
Then don't play. If you don't like it don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to play it, so don't.
Everyone, please stop complaining. If you don't like the way the game is turning out, then don't play it. Or do.
Just stop complaining.
Just that I mention that I dont like something does not say I am complaining not at all i did just not like it and beleve me I wont play anything I dont think I would like. You on the other hand you seem to have serious psycological problems not acepting people saying what they think.
In my opinion the number of usable skills doesn't matter as long as the skills are dynamic and modifiable. If they are not those two things then more usable skills is better than less.
Dynamic:
Momentum and weight physics, varying speeds of skill animations, varying range of skills, decision between accurate or potent skill, superb resource management, on the fly counter vs counter decision, different on the fly skill effects choices, difficult AI to make me select skills carefully, force me to alternate between offense or defense or die.
Skill modify:
Have gear determine the effectiveness of different skills.
Have a key modifier that allows me to control parameters when firing off skills.
Hard but slow, soft but fast, combo or singular spike, range, potency, mp or stamina consumption control, cumalitve skill combos like weak alone but potent combined, etc, etc.
8 skills = 8 buttons on the PS controller. EQN will be following PS2 and DCUO to the PS4.
That's it.
Yeah, and I won't say it's better or worse without trying it.
But the 8 limit is a design choice not a limitation of the console. FFXIV ARR already worked around this with the cross hotbar 16 skills on the fly with no scrolling. They have it capped as a design choice. But if they wanted to remove that limit.
There is combination of mixing the face buttons, triggers, bumpers, and digital pad totaling to 256 skills usable on the fly through the cross hotbar interface.
8 skills = 8 buttons on the PS controller. EQN will be following PS2 and DCUO to the PS4.
That's it.
Yeah, and I won't say it's better or worse without trying it.
But the 8 limit is a design choice not a limitation of the console. FFXIV ARR already worked around this with the cross hotbar 16 skills on the fly with no scrolling. They have it capped as a design choice. But if they wanted to remove that limit.
There is combination of mixing the face buttons, triggers, bumpers, and digital pad totaling to 256 skills usable on the fly through the cross hotbar interface.
MEH - what have so many skills? Rift has that many and many of the are useless, some are too situational to be effective - there is only like 10 skills I have used in Rift and was effective. The rest were a waste.
It's fine with me. I mean honestly, when is the last time you played a WoW-styled sandwich combat MMO where you had a gazillion abilities on your GUI and actually used them all constantly? You typically only have a 4-6 button rotation, and everything else was either a buff or utility you rarely used. I'd rather have interesting choices that I can change whenever I want, rather than having hotbar diarrhea hogging my screen.
SOE has stated they want you looking at the in-game combat - not the GUI and icon bars. They do not plan to change their idea on how combat is controlled. There have been at least 77 threads on this same topic....
Perhaps EQN is not being made for you?
well, thats a plain stupid argument of soe, to stop peolle looking at actionbars they need to remove recast timers and make casting fully resource based.
the only reason they go 8 skil is because of consoles, but they dont dare to admit it. anyway, dumbing down player choice in combination with removing strategy and tactical dessigens from the combat (trinity) they killed the most important paft ov the game to me.
you can have dozdnx of great ideas, but dumbing down the combat will make people feel bored i no time.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
SOE has stated they want you looking at the in-game combat - not the GUI and icon bars. They do not plan to change their idea on how combat is controlled. There have been at least 77 threads on this same topic....
Perhaps EQN is not being made for you?
well, thats a plain stupid argument of soe, to stop peolle looking at actionbars they need to remove recast timers and make casting fully resource based.
the only reason they go 8 skil is because of consoles, but they dont dare to admit it. anyway, dumbing down player choice in combination with removing strategy and tactical dessigens from the combat (trinity) they killed the most important paft ov the game to me.
you can have dozdnx of great ideas, but dumbing down the combat will make people feel bored i no time.
GW1 had less skills and the discussion of console mmo's wasn't really a big deal when they did it. And there was quite a lot of stragegy abnd tactics in that game.
It's already been stated ad nauseum that reducing initial skills on a hotbar does not equal any sort of dumbing down as it more depends one what those skills do and how they releate to each other and possibly "deeper" skills that may become apparently depending on what you do in the moment.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Omb1 Pretty sure they brainstormed and some guy said for laughs that instead of having the common 4 classes with 40 skills each, they'd do 40 classes with 4 skills each instead, seems legit. Not really a good idea though, people are supposed to put effort in to get better, that's how you become smarter. Not sure chess would be very popular if the grid was 4x4 with 2 pieces on each side. Understand?Dumber is not the way to go... and nobody strives for it.
There will be more classes than abilities per class. That has been said. But there will be many abilities unique to each class, as each class is a complete package. It has been officially said.
Each class can use more than 1 weapon type. Each weapon type creates different weapon skills depending on the class using it. A Tempest does not use a Greatsword the same as a Blademaster.
Each class will unlock many secondary skills to give that class options for people who don't like to multiclass.
I don't mind only having 8 abilities.. but I hated the "abilities locked to weapons" system in GW2.
There was not 1 weapon set where I liked all the abilities.. I wish they would change the system to maybe something like each weapon has a pool of 20 abilities and you can pick 4.
I guess my first quest in EQN will be finding a class with the right weapon skills and the right kind of optional slots.. good thing they have so many classes, that gives me hope
I'm not sure what's with the "only 8 abilities = dumbed down" argument. If it's anything near as complex as The Secret World's ability system, it will take way more thought than your typical MMO with 20-30 abilities gathering dust on your hotbar.
I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?
I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.
Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.
Search this forum for a thread called "GW2 has 2 million Logging in per week"
Because that number hasn't been shown to be subjective at best when actually translated by a native speaker....... They even pulled that number and replaced it with YouTube and Facebook hits.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
If you are ONLY allowed 4 skills per class (so that a lvl 1 wizard has same 4 abilities as a lvl 99 wizard) and they can't change that, then that is TERRIBLE.
If you unlock skills as you get higher and can change those four skills around. That's a little better. Same goes for weapons.
Also, it seems you can unlock skills for other classes while being a wizard. I wonder if that means you can use a rogue ability as a wizard too.
Now, even with that, I would STILL prefer more abilities.
I saw someone post a video of how a person should use 6-8 abilities for a PVE rotation and the order. Great.
Except you still use other abilities at different times for different situations. And PvP is a totally different ballgame. You may have an attack that does more magic damage (better against high armor targets) which you hardly use in PvE! PvP is so much more complex that having a lot of options on hand DURING the fight is huge for a game.
Comments
Considering a lot of people have mention EQ had this. I would say this is not a new generation of gamers thing, but an old concept.
That's just a lame excuse passed down by devs trying to dumb down the genre to attract more people.. When you're in combat with those MMOs that have a lot of hot bars skills you don't use more than 5 to 10 skills anyway and if you do it's situational. Most of them are buffs or prep skills you use before you go into combat. You will still button mash.. Don't kid yourself about that.. Just like you button mash in DCUO or gw2 or whatever other MMO that uses less skills..
That is always a factor, I just hate posts like "don't like it, don't play it" especially in games that are still deep in development. If the player's don't raise their voices have zero justification to complain about not having a game they like to play.
Perhaps, but most complaints I hear are "these graphics sux so therefore the game sux". And usually that's not an exaggeration. I have seen almost no constructive criticism, just complaining and moaning.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
The problem is soe took a look at what other games were doing.
Rift - soul system
gw - weapon system
gw2 - live questing that changes the world
mincraft - upgraded
So what you got was a mismatch of all the top games add them together and bam, soe trying to be something for everybody, and you know where that will land you, a failing game off the start.
The missed totally the folks from eq and eq2, and slapped them in the face.
Oh yeah, just like WoW took different features from different games and they failed so hard from start nobody even heard of it.
Ya funny how you just skim over the fact that eq 1 had limited skills also. I am pretty much happy in the fact that I only have 8 skills. Now as long as they make challenging enough content that will make it difficult to use those 8 skills.
Pretty sure they brainstormed and some guy said for laughs that instead of having the common 4 classes with 40 skills each, they'd do 40 classes with 4 skills each instead, seems legit. Not really a good idea though, people are supposed to put effort in to get better, that's how you become smarter. Not sure chess would be very popular if the grid was 4x4 with 2 pieces on each side. Understand?
Dumber is not the way to go... and nobody strives for it.
The 8 skills doesn't bother me too much, as long as the options are interesting.
I am a little worried that you can acquire and pick skills from any class you've unlocked, as it takes some of the flavor out of the individual classes. In the original everquest, wizards could teleport you across the world and shamans had long duration buffs. But now someone could just load in and out each of these abilities on their multi-class character, and min-maxing may end up reducing variability between characters.
Lol oh boy.
This thread is a good read, each page in fact. Anyway my stance is that im for it. In fact +1 for what Butros said.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just that I mention that I dont like something does not say I am complaining not at all i did just not like it and beleve me I wont play anything I dont think I would like. You on the other hand you seem to have serious psycological problems not acepting people saying what they think.
In my opinion the number of usable skills doesn't matter as long as the skills are dynamic and modifiable. If they are not those two things then more usable skills is better than less.
Dynamic:
Momentum and weight physics, varying speeds of skill animations, varying range of skills, decision between accurate or potent skill, superb resource management, on the fly counter vs counter decision, different on the fly skill effects choices, difficult AI to make me select skills carefully, force me to alternate between offense or defense or die.
Skill modify:
Have gear determine the effectiveness of different skills.
Have a key modifier that allows me to control parameters when firing off skills.
Hard but slow, soft but fast, combo or singular spike, range, potency, mp or stamina consumption control, cumalitve skill combos like weak alone but potent combined, etc, etc.
People are reading into this way too much.
8 skills = 8 buttons on the PS controller. EQN will be following PS2 and DCUO to the PS4.
That's it.
Yeah, and I won't say it's better or worse without trying it.
But the 8 limit is a design choice not a limitation of the console. FFXIV ARR already worked around this with the cross hotbar 16 skills on the fly with no scrolling. They have it capped as a design choice. But if they wanted to remove that limit.
There is combination of mixing the face buttons, triggers, bumpers, and digital pad totaling to 256 skills usable on the fly through the cross hotbar interface.
MEH - what have so many skills? Rift has that many and many of the are useless, some are too situational to be effective - there is only like 10 skills I have used in Rift and was effective. The rest were a waste.
well, thats a plain stupid argument of soe, to stop peolle looking at actionbars they need to remove recast timers and make casting fully resource based.
the only reason they go 8 skil is because of consoles, but they dont dare to admit it. anyway, dumbing down player choice in combination with removing strategy and tactical dessigens from the combat (trinity) they killed the most important paft ov the game to me.
you can have dozdnx of great ideas, but dumbing down the combat will make people feel bored i no time.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
GW1 had less skills and the discussion of console mmo's wasn't really a big deal when they did it. And there was quite a lot of stragegy abnd tactics in that game.
It's already been stated ad nauseum that reducing initial skills on a hotbar does not equal any sort of dumbing down as it more depends one what those skills do and how they releate to each other and possibly "deeper" skills that may become apparently depending on what you do in the moment.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sadly QFT
There will be more classes than abilities per class. That has been said.
But there will be many abilities unique to each class, as each class is a complete package. It has been officially said.
Each class can use more than 1 weapon type. Each weapon type creates different weapon skills depending on the class using it. A Tempest does not use a Greatsword the same as a Blademaster.
Each class will unlock many secondary skills to give that class options for people who don't like to multiclass.
I don't mind only having 8 abilities.. but I hated the "abilities locked to weapons" system in GW2.
There was not 1 weapon set where I liked all the abilities.. I wish they would change the system to maybe something like each weapon has a pool of 20 abilities and you can pick 4.
I guess my first quest in EQN will be finding a class with the right weapon skills and the right kind of optional slots.. good thing they have so many classes, that gives me hope
I'm not sure what's with the "only 8 abilities = dumbed down" argument. If it's anything near as complex as The Secret World's ability system, it will take way more thought than your typical MMO with 20-30 abilities gathering dust on your hotbar.
More thought, less useless abilities plz.
I hope is 8+2(mouse button fillers) aka mix of GW2 + TERA and I'm sold already.
Still have to get a feel of combat to be sure
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
Because that number hasn't been shown to be subjective at best when actually translated by a native speaker....... They even pulled that number and replaced it with YouTube and Facebook hits.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
If you are ONLY allowed 4 skills per class (so that a lvl 1 wizard has same 4 abilities as a lvl 99 wizard) and they can't change that, then that is TERRIBLE.
If you unlock skills as you get higher and can change those four skills around. That's a little better. Same goes for weapons.
Also, it seems you can unlock skills for other classes while being a wizard. I wonder if that means you can use a rogue ability as a wizard too.
Now, even with that, I would STILL prefer more abilities.
I saw someone post a video of how a person should use 6-8 abilities for a PVE rotation and the order. Great.
Except you still use other abilities at different times for different situations. And PvP is a totally different ballgame. You may have an attack that does more magic damage (better against high armor targets) which you hardly use in PvE! PvP is so much more complex that having a lot of options on hand DURING the fight is huge for a game.
Giving players more options is NOT a bad thing.