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So lets talk about this LIMITED ACTON BAR OF 8 SKILLS!!!!!! Just freakin 8 skills!!!!

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  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    otherwise it seems like the game play will just consist of mindless button mashing even worst than GW2, since there will be less things to manage in combat other than cooldowns.

    Well. the problem with GW2 were the cooldowns. Because of cooldowns you were more often then not in a situation were you got only 2-3 abilities left, and from those 2-3 abilties one wasn't worth anything, and the other just for certain situation.. so your choice was reduced to 1.

    As long as EQN don't have any cooldowns at all, and i will have at any given moment 8 skills available with the option to choose those 8 skills from a few hundred will be completely fine with it. 8 useful skills in any given moment are a lot more skills as in almost any MMORPG i can remember. Yeah.. i got 40 skills, 10 positional with only 1-2 working at a certain time, 20 combos skills you could easily reduce to 6-8.. and a lot which were either useless or more or less the same as some other skills.

    As long as they get rid off of cooldowns everything could be fine. But if they use cooldowns like GW2 and you do only have 1-2 at any given time available it will most probably suck.

    So.. no cooldowns pls. Or at least any skill with a cooldown have to come with more abilities. Those 8 normal skills, and 2-4 cooldowns skills. Or get rid off them at all.

    SAY NO TO COOLDOWNS!

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    otherwise it seems like the game play will just consist of mindless button mashing even worst than GW2, since there will be less things to manage in combat other than cooldowns.

    Well. the problem with GW2 were the cooldowns. Because of cooldowns you were more often then not in a situation were you got only 2-3 abilities left, and from those 2-3 abilties one wasn't worth anything, and the other just for certain situation.. so your choice was reduced to 1.

    As long as EQN don't have any cooldowns at all, and i will have at any given moment 8 skills available with the option to choose those 8 skills from a few hundred will be completely fine with it. 8 useful skills in any given moment are a lot more skills as in almost any MMORPG i can remember. Yeah.. i got 40 skills, 10 positional with only 1-2 working at a certain time, 20 combos skills you could easily reduce to 6-8.. and a lot which were either useless or more or less the same as some other skills.

    As long as they get rid off of cooldowns everything could be fine. But if they use cooldowns like GW2 and you do only have 1-2 at any given time available it will most probably suck.

    So.. no cooldowns pls. Or at least any skill with a cooldown have to come with more abilities. Those 8 normal skills, and 2-4 cooldowns skills. Or get rid off them at all.

    SAY NO TO COOLDOWNS!

    You would have to have cooldowns of some type, or folks would just mash all 8 keys at the same time over and over. There is no skill in that. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, but I don't know of any mmorpg that doesn't have them. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

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  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Really? I just logged off from GW2.. I can never play that game longer then an hour.. I get so tired of the anti social Zerging.. I also get tired of hitting 1 2345, 2345,  mob dies >> 1 2345 2345.. Same action no matter what or where I am..  The only time I have an variety is when I press "swap" weapons tab..

    OH OH.. which by the way.. I freaking HATE having to constantly find my damn mouse to SHOW the computer where I want to place my AOE's.... OMFG.. Have you tried the Necro with a staff...... Buttons 2345 are ALL AOE's.. A royal pain .. 

  • St_konkerSt_konker Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Really? I just logged off from GW2.. I can never play that game longer then an hour.. I get so tired of the anti social Zerging.. I also get tired of hitting 1 2345, 2345,  mob dies >> 1 2345 2345.. Same action no matter what or where I am..  The only time I have an variety is when I press "swap" weapons tab..

    OH OH.. which by the way.. I freaking HATE having to constantly find my damn mouse to SHOW the computer where I want to place my AOE's.... OMFG.. Have you tried the Necro with a staff...... Buttons 2345 are ALL AOE's.. A royal pain .. 

    Personal opinions are great arent they? Unfortunately your personal experiences dont equate to all of the people currently playing the game.

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Really? I just logged off from GW2.. I can never play that game longer then an hour.. I get so tired of the anti social Zerging.. I also get tired of hitting 1 2345, 2345,  mob dies >> 1 2345 2345.. Same action no matter what or where I am..  The only time I have an variety is when I press "swap" weapons tab..

    OH OH.. which by the way.. I freaking HATE having to constantly find my damn mouse to SHOW the computer where I want to place my AOE's.... OMFG.. Have you tried the Necro with a staff...... Buttons 2345 are ALL AOE's.. A royal pain .. 

    You != majority

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  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Rockniss
    It just so happens to work well with controllers. I guess that happened accidentally. Coincidentally PS4 launches this year. ( Rockniss scratches his head, a question mark appears above his head, suddenly a light bulb appears and he smiles) I think I know why there are 8 skill slots everyone!!!

    Was that the same reason for GW2 and Neverwinter since they are PC exclusive?  because in FFXIV you can have up to 32 active skills for the gamepad.

  • Kuro1nKuro1n Member UncommonPosts: 775
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    I have said this before, but I believe that if people on this forum don't like something, it is an utter failure and no one else would dare be playing it!  

     

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

    Its second to WoW in the category of AAA mmos.

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

    Search this forum for a thread called "GW2 has 2 million Logging in per week"

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  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Okay.

    So in EQNext the action bar system will be using a limited design to force builds between combat.

     

    4,,, yes I said 4,,, will be weapon skills

     

    And 4,,, yes again I said 4,,,, will be class utilities.

     

    So that's a total of 8 skills at a time.

    Sort of like GW1 really. But I remember GW1 getting a lot of heated talk because of that.

    Which is why GW2 entered with larger number of advalible skills at a time, while trying to keep its limited action bar design for its previous fans.

     

    Well they also screwed up, by the way they design it with half being weapon skills, and other half being class utilities. That took away basically 25-50% of the freedom of choice when you think about it.

     

    but like I said, GW2 still increased the number of skills you have access to in combat, even if it was done in a way that went over the head of the supporters of GW1's limited action bar.

    GW2 featured class mechanics skills. These were skills that were unique to the class you were, and wasnt part of the action bar itself.

    like guardians has virtues and engineer has tool belt, etc. 

    should EQNext also have class mechanics to make things feel more unique and interesting?

    otherwise it seems like the game play will just consist of mindless button mashing even worst than GW2, since there will be less things to manage in combat other than cooldowns.

     

    how can such a system be improved? That's what we should be considering. How to improve the limited action bar system.

    actually, GW1 had far better build possibilities than GW2 does. The only problem GW1 had was balancing such a large number of builds and skills for each class and that's why they changed the design... That's the biggest reason why they went with the 10 skills change...

    I prefer little action bar with only usable skills than 5 bars with 10 skills on each bar that hogs your screen and then you end up using 10 of those skills anyways....

    GW2 features weapon specific skills as well, it's either 5, 3 or 2 skills depending on the weapon type and then you get to choose another 5 skills depending on your class. Sounds like EQN already has skill bar similar to GW2, and it's far from a mindless button mashing...

    It's quite the oposite, less skills means you have to combine them more wiesly in order to produce maximum damage and rotate the skills properly. Bigger skill bar is far more forgiving because you have more skills with which you can correct your error :P

    So I vote "yes", because it represents a bigger challange when I have to combine spells together to achieve higher dps

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • DeVoDeVoDeVoDeVo Member UncommonPosts: 106

    I never thought I would like a limited skill bar until I played Neverwinter.  The combat bar setup in that game is excellent so I don’t mind at all if EQ Next’s is similar.

     

    With the smaller bar, you begin to memorize which keys to press.  This increases the game immersion by allowing you to focus on the screen and not the hotbar. As long as I can freely change out skills when able, I’m alright with the 8 button bar.

     

     I’m never going back to a game where I need to have 3 – 6 hot bars vertically and horizontally arranged on my screen. 

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

    It's more than alive! :) Find a source that rates games and look. Here is a simple one from mmohut.com Merely open the page and hit the ratings column.

    There are many more out there, but I am not going to do anymore hard work today! 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    I have been on the fence to play FFXIV just because i am used to a LOT more choice playing FFXI and FFXIV streamed it down to very few choice from sub classes.

    SOE is going even worse,more limiting,all the while they have been telling us they want us to have CHOICE,seriously ,how many times have they mentioned this?

    I find their panel of employees to be very calculating on that they say to make it all sound good but then another member realizes a mistake and tries to chime in.

    Examples,we don't want you to have to play a role you don't like but WAIT,we are not saying we are removing the role ability..umm a lot of hypocrisy in their statements.

    I have no problem with limitations but i think 4 is far too few,it comes across as playing Neverwinter all over again.You even notice that Warrior effect of jumping and smashing the ground is an identical copy of the NW ability.Then when the female asks about visual if too many players using that ability,they have to come with the truth and state it was only a visualization to sell the product,so in other words a misleading presentation.

    I know some people with defend the having to make so few choice,but in reality,if you are so limited,then that is exactly what you are a limited player.

    If they make items to support that choice,then those items will be very limiting as well,meaning you might not have the typical +10 int and +10 str to support nuking and melee,now you might only get an item that supports only one idea.SOE already showed this streamlining in combat design in EQ2,when they went all out to give every class basically only 1 stat to your individual class and of course stamina for all.

    IMO FFXI did the best,it was proven over 20 classes and over 10 years,the sub class utilizing HALF of your abilities just comes out best.The problem is that type of design needs a lot more abilities and spells,SOE seems to be going for less effort having to only make 1-2 choices for each class,then you just mix and match.

    They mention more still to come,i would imagine this means an AA tree to come.

     

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,265
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Good riddance to playing the UI.

    QFT. In swtor and Wow I got tired of having 20-30 abilites and macros that I had to juggle. I actually loved GW2 skill system. 

    same here:)

  • Kuro1nKuro1n Member UncommonPosts: 775
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

    Its second to WoW in the category of AAA mmos.

    Honestly I doubt it, I think EVE makes more money than GW2.

     

    Here is stockholder reports from Q1 2013, see how GW2 keeps going down after initial release? Yeah, that is kinda it, a 10 year old game called Lineage 1 makes more money than GW2. Sure it is not a failure but it is not a great success either.

     

  • noncleynoncley Member UncommonPosts: 718
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Depends on how deep the skills are. If you get shallow skills like one that debuffs a NPC damage by 10% and that is all it does. I would like 20-30 hotbar slots. If skills have depth like a skill debuffs 10% dps, does 150 damage with a dot of 200 over 1 min and heals 5% of the damage back to you. Then 8 will do.

    "If skills have depth like a skill debuffs 10% dps, does 150 damage with a dot of 200 over 1 min and heals 5% of the damage back to you. Then 8 will do."

     

    If combat is spoonfed like that, then I won't touch this game with a bargepole. I'm not eight years old.

  • r0guyr0guy Member Posts: 115
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by r0guy
    Originally posted by Kuro1n  It's like playing a moba, having 4 abilities or more on some characters and then a few items for abilities as well, you get tired of it damn fast imo as it is really easy to master.

    So what MLG championships have you won lately?

    /facepalm

    Oh, hello to you too douchebag, I don't really enjoy MOBA games, I play them occasionally with my friends because they have some interest in them but I do produce items through the workshop for it. On the other hand I did play Tribes ascend on high level and used to lead a clan of 400-500 members something in Lineage 2. A game where you have 36 skills to use at least in gfinal if you play something other than archer.

    I really don't care about your Tribes ascend or lineage 2 exploits, that wasn't the point of my comment.

    It's your comment about MOBAs being "easy"... that's just hilarious. 

    But hey pal, you can either hate on the messenger, or could take the hint that beyond rediculous exagerations doesn't help with your argument's credibility. Wich of these 2 options is the douchebagiest?

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Really? I just logged off from GW2.. I can never play that game longer then an hour.. I get so tired of the anti social Zerging.. I also get tired of hitting 1 2345, 2345,  mob dies >> 1 2345 2345.. Same action no matter what or where I am..  The only time I have an variety is when I press "swap" weapons tab..

    OH OH.. which by the way.. I freaking HATE having to constantly find my damn mouse to SHOW the computer where I want to place my AOE's.... OMFG.. Have you tried the Necro with a staff...... Buttons 2345 are ALL AOE's.. A royal pain .. 

    that's why you have the option to fast-ground target... you place your mouse on the position where you want your skill to land and THEN you press the skill... You don't see the green circle and the skill automatically lands where your mouse is.

    I found it useful when playing ele or ranger in WWW :)

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Good riddance to playing the UI.

    QFT. In swtor and Wow I got tired of having 20-30 abilites and macros that I had to juggle. I actually loved GW2 skill system. 

    same here:)

    You want an crap load of abilities to juggle? Try Rift!!! Holy crap on a cracker that is just way too much. You get like 3 different souls and each has as many abilities as those you get in WoW, and then you juggle the ones you want and/or need, and you wind up spamming the same 8 buttons!

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

     

    I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

    Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

    Its second to WoW in the category of AAA mmos.

    Honestly I doubt it, I think EVE makes more money than GW2.

     

    Here is stockholder reports from Q1 2013, see how GW2 keeps going down after initial release? Yeah, that is kinda it, a 10 year old game called Lineage 1 makes more money than GW2. Sure it is not a failure but it is not a great success either.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't L1 a huge success in the country with more than a billion people? 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • DSWBeefDSWBeef Member UncommonPosts: 789
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Good riddance to playing the UI.

    QFT. In swtor and Wow I got tired of having 20-30 abilites and macros that I had to juggle. I actually loved GW2 skill system. 

    same here:)

    You want an crap load of abilities to juggle? Try Rift!!! Holy crap on a cracker that is just way too much. You get like 3 different souls and each has as many abilities as those you get in WoW, and then you juggle the ones you want and/or need, and you wind up spamming the same 8 buttons!

    Also play rift. Yep had so much skills had to make a utility, aoe, and ST macro.

    Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
    Waiting on: Ashes of Creation

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Not sure why this new generation of gamers are so into this MOBA style of gaming for their MMO.

     

    8 skills to chose from doesnt suddenly mean the game is deep and engaging. Less is more principal doesnt apply here. I remembe rhaving 50+ skills in everquest 2, even more then that in WoW, and Aion. Yet you want me to play a game for months, even years, knowng ill only have 8 skills to work with because there is some tactical element to it?

     

    I wonder how well that is workng for guild wars 2...

    It's working great and much better than I thought it would. In fact, FYI, thousands of people are using it right now as I type this! The game is a huge success! Not a single server has been closed in almost a year, and there are still players a plenty! 

    The limited action bar works perfectly imho! :)

    Really? I just logged off from GW2.. I can never play that game longer then an hour.. I get so tired of the anti social Zerging.. I also get tired of hitting 1 2345, 2345,  mob dies >> 1 2345 2345.. Same action no matter what or where I am..  The only time I have an variety is when I press "swap" weapons tab..

    OH OH.. which by the way.. I freaking HATE having to constantly find my damn mouse to SHOW the computer where I want to place my AOE's.... OMFG.. Have you tried the Necro with a staff...... Buttons 2345 are ALL AOE's.. A royal pain .. 

    that's why you have the option to fast-ground target... you place your mouse on the position where you want your skill to land and THEN you press the skill... You don't see the green circle and the skill automatically lands where your mouse is.

    I found it useful when playing ele or ranger in WWW :)

    I do the same with a ranger. I'm sure it works just as effective with a necro! :)

    edit: double tap the skill also

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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