EQN- What about the community?

Keluian

One of the things that made EQ great, not just good, was the way it connected the players.  Especially before the expansions hit the amount of player interaction was AMAZING.  Guilds were close knit, but interacted alot and you could find groups before LFG tools existed. The Bazaar was in the commons tunnel and you had do talk to do ANYTHING.

Multiclassing, Destructability, Rallying Calls, Emergent AI.  

Did I miss it? Rallying calls may make people work together, and I'm sure there'll be guilds yes.  But I want that feeling again I had in July of 1999. I want something that'll make me feel the community isn't a bunch of whiney lil brats.  

Of all things this worries me because it doesn't sound in this aspect different. If I missed something please, go ahead I'll happily listen.

Kiyoris

I want a way to buff newbees. I want to cast wolf form on them or something, or KEI.

moguy2

You wont have what we had back then. Those days are very much gone. This is free to play with a cash shop. Enough said.

krulux

Originally posted by moguy2
You wont have what we had back then. Those days are very much gone. This is free to play with a cash shop. Enough said.

That's not true.  We can have the magic again.  The magic was there because of us, not because of the payment model.

I get what you're saying about the type of crowd that F2P brings in.. but to say we can't have a genuine community again is absolutely wrong..

The magic can happen again if people would just allow it to happen.  Toss down the "ME ME ME" mentality and act the way we acted back then.

grifj

Unless the game demands that you develop relationships like EQ1 did, I don't expect the community to be any better.  EQ1 demanded that you not a complete asshat because if you wanted to do most of the content, you had to do it in a group or with a guild.  The game had enough freedom in it to allow players to identify those types of people - whether they were ninja looters, trainers, horrible players, or whatever.  Today's MMOs are built for the lowest common denominator and with built in systems to prevent that sort of asshattery, which while nice in theory actually works to the detriment of the community.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by krulux

Originally posted by moguy2
You wont have what we had back then. Those days are very much gone. This is free to play with a cash shop. Enough said.

That's not true.  We can have the magic again.  The magic was there because of us, not because of the payment model.

I get what you're saying about the type of crowd that F2P brings in.. but to say we can't have a genuine community again is absolutely wrong..

The magic can happen again if people would just allow it to happen.  Toss down the "ME ME ME" mentality and act the way we acted back then.

It seems you do not infact understand. Like he said those days are long in the past. The new generation are selfish now. Antagonistic, self serving, trolls, griefers, countless other things that aren't any better. So telling people to act like you did before isn't gonna happen because the people that played mmos back then aren't really playing mmos anymore, and the ones that still do are in the vast minority.

krulux

Originally posted by grifj
Unless the game demands that you develop relationships like EQ1 did, I don't expect the community to be any better.  EQ1 demanded that you not a complete asshat because if you wanted to do most of the content, you had to do it in a group or with a guild.  The game had enough freedom in it to allow players to identify those types of people - whether they were ninja looters, trainers, horrible players, or whatever.  Today's MMOs are built for the lowest common denominator and with built in systems to prevent that sort of asshattery, which while nice in theory actually works to the detriment of the community.

How about we demand it of ourselves?

Rydeson

     It will be interesting how this pans out.. My experience is that unless you have some group interaction, the community does not grow.. People for the most are will be reluctant to strike up friendships when solo'ing everything.. Then you have the ability to self police those that are public offenders.. I have not seen any mechanics thus far that I find socially rewarding..  Raids are pretty much null and void from what I hear..  So the only real dependency would be the economy, and that remains to be an unknown.. Since "CAMPS" are not allowed, I'm curious how and why groups would even start in the first place..  All the months I've been playing GW2, I have yet to join a group and ACT as a group..

TheDarkrayne

Yeh the days of truly helping each other out in a social and rpg way are long gone. Gone are the days where people would offer buffs in the town to be kind.. or even sell them. Gone are the days when certain classes were needed to travel the world faster. Gone is the idea that helping someone else should be a way to progress your own character (llke the patron/vassal setup in Asheron's Call). Now the only reason to interact is for mutual gain.. achieving the same goal as each other instead of simply helping someone else achieve their own goal indirectly.

Asheron's Call has it perfected. Patrons used to run around farming loot and getting their vassals extra cash and stuff. Socialising was a full time experience for some people and it was rewarded brilliantly. It's a shame that idea didn't catch on.

krulux

Originally posted by Vannor

Yeh the days of truly helping each other out in a social and rpg way are long gone. Gone are the days where people would offer buffs in the town to be kind.. or even sell them. Gone are the days when certain classes were needed to travel the world faster. Gone is the idea that helping someone else should be a way to progress your own character (llke the patron/vassal setup in Asheron's Call). Now the only reason to interact is for mutual gain.. achieving the same goal as each other instead of simply helping someone else achieve their own goal indirectly.

Asheron's Call has it perfected. Patrons used to run around farming loot and getting their vassals extra cash and stuff. Socialising was a full time experience for some people and it was rewarded brilliantly. It's a shame that idea didn't catch on.

Old AC vet here.  I agree on AC having it right - that and a whole whole lot more.

That said - people act like you can't have fun unless you're "forced" or "required" on interactive dependent of one another?  So you're saying if EQ had not required you to work together you would not have any way?

That is not logical /Spock Voice.

 

Listen to what I'm saying... If the players want there to be community it WILL happen.  You don't need a game mechanic for that to happen.  What you need is people willing to BE IN A COMMUNITY.  Stop with the "me me me" mentality.  A "me" does not a community make.. it takes a "we" to make a community. 

In other words - whatever EQN turns out to be.. take part in it.  Make friends.  Explore.  Build.  Adventure.  Do something different.  If they happen to have a great combat game on top of it... that is icing on the cake - but it is not required for us to rebuild the old EQ magic.  It can happen if we let it happen.

/sorry if this does not make sense to you - I hope it reaches a few.  The magic is us - not the game.

 

 

Sephiroso

Originally posted by krulux

Originally posted by Vannor

Yeh the days of truly helping each other out in a social and rpg way are long gone. Gone are the days where people would offer buffs in the town to be kind.. or even sell them. Gone are the days when certain classes were needed to travel the world faster. Gone is the idea that helping someone else should be a way to progress your own character (llke the patron/vassal setup in Asheron's Call). Now the only reason to interact is for mutual gain.. achieving the same goal as each other instead of simply helping someone else achieve their own goal indirectly.

Asheron's Call has it perfected. Patrons used to run around farming loot and getting their vassals extra cash and stuff. Socialising was a full time experience for some people and it was rewarded brilliantly. It's a shame that idea didn't catch on.

Old AC vet here.  I agree on AC having it right - that and a whole whole lot more.

That said - people act like you can't have fun unless you're "forced" or "required" on interactive dependent of one another?  So you're saying if EQ had not required you to work together you would not have any way?

That is not logical /Spock Voice.

 

Listen to what I'm saying... If the players want there to be community it WILL happen.  You don't need a game mechanic for that to happen.  What you need is people willing to BE IN A COMMUNITY.  Stop with the "me me me" mentality.  A "me" does not a community make.. it takes a "we" to make a community. 

In other words - whatever EQN turns out to be.. take part in it.  Make friends.  Explore.  Build.  Adventure.  Do something different.  If they happen to have a great combat game on top of it... that is icing on the cake - but it is not required for us to rebuild the old EQ magic.  It can happen if we let it happen.

/sorry if this does not make sense to you - I hope it reaches a few.  The magic is us - not the game.

 

 

again, you're just plain wrong. people do indeed have to be FORCED to work together to in fact work together. its proven time and time again. look at GW2 and Tera. for dynamic events people do not work together, they're just doing their own thing for the most part cause they don't have to work together. if people do not have to work together, they will not.

 

also you're not understanding that gamers have changed. the old generation may not have needed as much coercion to work together but the newer generation almost absolutely need to be forced to do something to get anything done.

TheDarkrayne

Originally posted by krulux

Originally posted by Vannor

Yeh the days of truly helping each other out in a social and rpg way are long gone. Gone are the days where people would offer buffs in the town to be kind.. or even sell them. Gone are the days when certain classes were needed to travel the world faster. Gone is the idea that helping someone else should be a way to progress your own character (llke the patron/vassal setup in Asheron's Call). Now the only reason to interact is for mutual gain.. achieving the same goal as each other instead of simply helping someone else achieve their own goal indirectly.

Asheron's Call has it perfected. Patrons used to run around farming loot and getting their vassals extra cash and stuff. Socialising was a full time experience for some people and it was rewarded brilliantly. It's a shame that idea didn't catch on.

Old AC vet here.  I agree on AC having it right - that and a whole whole lot more.

That said - people act like you can't have fun unless you're "forced" or "required" on interactive dependent of one another?  So you're saying if EQ had not required you to work together you would not have any way?

That is not logical /Spock Voice.

 

Listen to what I'm saying... If the players want there to be community it WILL happen.  You don't need a game mechanic for that to happen.  What you need is people willing to BE IN A COMMUNITY.  Stop with the "me me me" mentality.  A "me" does not a community make.. it takes a "we" to make a community. 

In other words - whatever EQN turns out to be.. take part in it.  Make friends.  Explore.  Build.  Adventure.  Do something different.  If they happen to have a great combat game on top of it... that is icing on the cake - but it is not required for us to rebuild the old EQ magic.  It can happen if we let it happen.

/sorry if this does not make sense to you - I hope it reaches a few.  The magic is us - not the game.

I agree with what you saying but the problem these days is the 'us'. It's a different kind of crowd that forms the majority now and, yes, this newer crowd does need incentives to socialise otherwise they'd rather not do it. It's actually got to the point where the newer crowd doesn't even want the incentives... but still complains about them. Dungeon Finders are a public demanded requirement now for all MMOs.

People are asking for 'less' interaction with other players unless it's in a competitive nature and it's all about the 'I' in mult i player now. How can 'I' be better than this other person instead of how can 'I' work with this other person.

Even GW2 has it all wrong. The dynamic events have a tiered reward structure. The players are 'competing' for that gold award for each event. They want to beat the other players.. not achieve a common goal.

Trudge34

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by krulux

Originally posted by Vannor

Yeh the days of truly helping each other out in a social and rpg way are long gone. Gone are the days where people would offer buffs in the town to be kind.. or even sell them. Gone are the days when certain classes were needed to travel the world faster. Gone is the idea that helping someone else should be a way to progress your own character (llke the patron/vassal setup in Asheron's Call). Now the only reason to interact is for mutual gain.. achieving the same goal as each other instead of simply helping someone else achieve their own goal indirectly.

Asheron's Call has it perfected. Patrons used to run around farming loot and getting their vassals extra cash and stuff. Socialising was a full time experience for some people and it was rewarded brilliantly. It's a shame that idea didn't catch on.

Old AC vet here.  I agree on AC having it right - that and a whole whole lot more.

That said - people act like you can't have fun unless you're "forced" or "required" on interactive dependent of one another?  So you're saying if EQ had not required you to work together you would not have any way?

That is not logical /Spock Voice.

 

Listen to what I'm saying... If the players want there to be community it WILL happen.  You don't need a game mechanic for that to happen.  What you need is people willing to BE IN A COMMUNITY.  Stop with the "me me me" mentality.  A "me" does not a community make.. it takes a "we" to make a community. 

In other words - whatever EQN turns out to be.. take part in it.  Make friends.  Explore.  Build.  Adventure.  Do something different.  If they happen to have a great combat game on top of it... that is icing on the cake - but it is not required for us to rebuild the old EQ magic.  It can happen if we let it happen.

/sorry if this does not make sense to you - I hope it reaches a few.  The magic is us - not the game.

I agree with what you saying but the problem these days is the 'us'. It's a different kind of crowd that forms the majority now and, yes, this newer crowd does need incentives to socialise otherwise they'd rather not do it. It's actually got to the point where the newer crowd doesn't even want the incentives... but still complains about them. Dungeon Finders are a public demanded requirement now for all MMOs.

People are asking for 'less' interaction with other players unless it's in a competitive nature and it's all about the 'I' in mult i player now. How can 'I' be better than this other person instead of how can 'I' work with this other person.

Even GW2 has it all wrong. The dynamic events have a tiered reward structure. The players are 'competing' for that gold award for each event. They want to beat the other players.. not achieve a common goal.

It's not even just the community that suffers with that mentality Vannor. Look at many PvP arguments. About how PvP is meaningless unless there's some real incentive to do it. What about the days where the PvP crowd did it for the thrill or bragging rights? Same kind of mindset. Unless there's a lot of incentive to do something, people just won't do it.