Originally posted by BearKnight .Everquest has never been an "easy" franchise, that's why it isn't mainstream.
EQ2 is part of the everquest franchise and EQ2 is similar in ease to WOW
EQ2 is probably the best example of how SOE thinks....The game was made to be hardcore...You had to group to do everything...Crafting consisted of having to make components to be used in the tradeskill....It was tedious to say the least, but it rewarrded teh hard working.....Then along comes WoW.....EQ2 starts to lose subs and WoW explodes.....SOE then does a 180 on EQ2 and starts making changes like crazy......It goes from a hardcore group based game to a solo quest fest to max level, just like WoW....Several other features of the game are dumbed down and they basically WoWified the whole game to try and make money.....
Not too long after that also changes started to come to EQ1 to make it alot more solo friendly.....Now in 2013, I dont think very many people that played pre 2004 would recognize EQ.....
The OP nailed how EQ fans feel pretty accurately.....The one thing that many of us have known though is that SOE is all about the money...They have never been about making a great game, not even EQ....EQ could have been even better but SOE started getting ridiculous with the lore to crank out expansions......I think most MMO players are Ok with change but when a company constantly is asking you to keep paying for things it gets old fast.....
I was concerned about EQN from the moment i heard about it....There were rumors that it was going to be alot like EQ was when it first came out....A return to the glory days of sorts....Then came August 2nd.....After reading about what they are planning, I really am not surprised at all......I had little faith that EQN would be anything like EQ was in its heyday...As great as that was for alot of us that played back then, the times have changed now.....
After we got the info on the 2nd, it sounded to me like SOE is trying to cash in on 2-3 games that are hot today (GW2, minecraft, Vindictus maybe also)......I think I'd be OK with this if they would have just left the EQ name out of it......If this game was called Blockheadland" where everyone just goes around destroying everything I might have even have been on board....I probably wouldnt play a game like that but it wouldn't bother me......
What SOE is doing is using EQs name for name recognition only.....It would be kinda like Blizzard calling their next MMO WoW Next even if it had nothing to do with Warcraft......EQN is just another feeble attempt by SOE to try and steal their portion of the market.....Instead of trying to make us a great game, they are ripping off other games, using the EQ name in vain, and basically crapping on people who have supported their company for years....Oh yeah and lets not forget this may not even be made for the PC.....This has all the writing of the PS4 all over it.
I know right, I love how people can actually have the audacity to feel validated to speak on behest of a "group" of internet people who they have never. I played EQ1 pre-luclin and I'm glad they aren't making the same game again. Think about it if all they did was make a rehash of EQ1 who would actually play it for more than a few months? We already did that shit before. its like why would we all still drive Model T's when you know the mileage is gonna suck and you have to wear goggles to drive.
EQ1 was good cause it was new and different and unlike anything most of us had ever played before. Now why would we want an EQ1 2.0?
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
As for the comments about EQ2, it wasn't originally a WoW-clone. They did that post-release to compete with WoW, but at that time SOE hadn't realized that copying WoW == failure at best case. EQ2 was meant as, again, a spiritual successor, but then ended up changing it later to bring in a broader audience.
In other words EQ2's developers attempted to "Mainstream" it post-release, but ended in failure. You can't mainstream a product post-launch, it has proven time and time again to be a BAD idea. So this time they're doing it during developement with EQ:Next.
Hm,how could EQ2 been a wow clone, it was released earlyer than wow.
Soe did several Changes in the game few months after release,those were made since people were leaving the game,I know I left the game only a month after release and came back few months later to find out the game had got lot better but not like wow at all.
yea so dont u dare go and say that EQ2 is a freaking wow clone, because it isnt. EQ2 was released Nov 4th 2004 and wow was released Nov 23, 2004 so yea EQ2 is deff no dam wow clone. But back to the subject, i think its sad that $OE is already bringing in the NGE version for EQN sad indeed. LONG LIVE PRE CU SWG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (YEA I SAID IT AND IM DAM PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
You sir need a history lesson, and possibly grammar as well. EQ2 might have released before wow but about a year or so after release they completely changed the game, including combat and coincidentally enough the combat was now very similar to wow. And also the NGE version of EQN? do you even know what NGE means? Go play on the private server for SWG pre NGE and see if it is as awesome as you remember.
Um.. No they didn't. They reworked the first few levels so that instead of starting as an archetype, you picked your final class at creation. And they reworked some of the overland zones to make them a bit less deadly to a solo player to move through. And they simplified the crafting system to reduce the fiddly inter-craft dependency that was gating everyone's progress.
Combat mechanics themselves really didn't change at all. (Though individual classes might have had some changes I don't remember...)
*edit* Ah! They did mess about quite a bit with hard caps and soft caps... but that only really affected end game raiding in specific encounters.
EQ1 was fun because it was NEW and DIFFERENT and also challenging. Me being an EQ fan since 99 am glad they are not rehashing EQ1, it would be so freakin boring cause we have done that crap a thousand times. You need to get real or go make your own EQ1 2.0. As long as EQN isn't easymode like most games now adays(including vanilla wow) ill be happy. I read on the forums not to long ago someone saying Vanilla wow was the most challenging mmo when it came out. I about cried laughing so hard.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
I think what some people are missing is that EQN was indeed meant to be something completely different akin to the new star trak movie. It is not meant to replace EQ1 or EQ2, it is in addition too; the first two games will stay in development for those that like that style of gaming. A target of EQN is to bring in new players into the Sony family of games. One can not do that if they keep making the same-old, same-old. They regretted, day one, calling EQ2, EQ2, and they didn't do that with EQN, hence it's not offically called EQ3.
It's a bad anology, but think of the star wars movies. You have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6... But outside that there are countless books, animations, a rumored TV series and even more movies in the works. People HATED the clon wars animation look but it was still popular and is still going. It was meant for a new generation and it brought in just that. One group maynot like it, but another group dose.
If they want to reboot their IP (SoE) with a new reinvisioning - I say good for them. It's risky and not many companies would, but then again we have been plagued with failures in the mmo market over the past 8 years.
Would I personal like to see EQ1 but with better graphics? I would. But I would also like to learn more about their current project before breaking out the pitchforks and torches.
Originally posted by Kamofila EQ1 was fun because it was NEW and DIFFERENT and also challenging. Me being an EQ fan since 99 am glad they are not rehashing EQ1, it would be so freakin boring cause we have done that crap a thousand times. You need to get real or go make your own EQ1 2.0. As long as EQN isn't easymode like most games now adays(including vanilla wow) ill be happy. I read on the forums not to long ago someone saying Vanilla wow was the most challenging mmo when it came out. I about cried laughing so hard.
hah nice.
Even EQ1 changed over time. Remember the eariest years where we had to stare at our spellbooks to regain mana, even in combat? None of this easy-mode in-combat mana regeneration. Trying to find a safe place to sit for 10 minutes while mana regenerated, staring at "the book" hoping the footsteps you're hearing are friendly. heh.
Originally posted by Kamofila EQ1 was fun because it was NEW and DIFFERENT and also challenging. Me being an EQ fan since 99 am glad they are not rehashing EQ1, it would be so freakin boring cause we have done that crap a thousand times. You need to get real or go make your own EQ1 2.0. As long as EQN isn't easymode like most games now adays(including vanilla wow) ill be happy. I read on the forums not to long ago someone saying Vanilla wow was the most challenging mmo when it came out. I about cried laughing so hard.
Well, be prepared to be disappointed, you do not make a game for the masses, and make it hard. This is the direction they have chosen, telegraphed moves, etc... Not going to happen. It will most likely be one of the easiest mmos on the market, that will look to keep people with the landmark stuff, rally calls and other things, but challenge in pve is not a mechanic that I think will be present...This is truly a shot at mass appeal, some people were hoping for something that was targeted as more niche, but they weren't the opposite way.
If the combat were hard, I would be more shocked than the reveal.
You might not want to admit this, but hardcore gaming crowd IS indeed decreasing. Why do you think they made EQ1 easier? Why do you think WoW is such a big success? Why do you think they try to make EQN this way? They can't just ignore what most people want to cater to those who are willing to spend 16 hrs a day on video games.
Then again, if the hardcore EQ players are open to changes and the more casual mechanics, they won't still be hanging on to their sweet memories from the first year of EQ1.
Obviously now SOE is going after a whole new market.. Twitch fantasy sandbox.. I don't know what the market size is, but it's a gamble.. I personally think a bad gamble, but hey.. I'm not the one that has a questionable track record of games since 2005.. I'm starting to think that SOE is just a cheap one hit wonder.. lol
As for the comments about EQ2, it wasn't originally a WoW-clone. They did that post-release to compete with WoW, but at that time SOE hadn't realized that copying WoW == failure at best case. EQ2 was meant as, again, a spiritual successor, but then ended up changing it later to bring in a broader audience.
In other words EQ2's developers attempted to "Mainstream" it post-release, but ended in failure. You can't mainstream a product post-launch, it has proven time and time again to be a BAD idea. So this time they're doing it during developement with EQ:Next.
EQ2 was terrible at launch. I would know, since it was my first MMO. It was actually better when it overhauled the game to be a little similar to WoW..
Character Models (terrible)
System Performance (terrible)
Zoning/Loading Screens issues (swtor didn't learn this lesson)
One starter zone for all races. (limited replayability for alts)
Advanced Class system (swtor didn't learn from this either)
etc.
If you really think EQ2 would've kept more subscribers, by not changing, then you're deulsional. EQ2 was plagued with so many problems at launch, it needed to change or it would've failed even faster than it did.
Originally posted by BearKnight .Everquest has never been an "easy" franchise, that's why it isn't mainstream.
EQ2 is part of the everquest franchise and EQ2 is similar in ease to WOW
EQ2 is probably the best example of how SOE thinks....The game was made to be hardcore...You had to group to do everything...Crafting consisted of having to make components to be used in the tradeskill....It was tedious to say the least, but it rewarrded teh hard working.....Then along comes WoW.....EQ2 starts to lose subs and WoW explodes.....SOE then does a 180 on EQ2 and starts making changes like crazy......It goes from a hardcore group based game to a solo quest fest to max level, just like WoW....Several other features of the game are dumbed down and they basically WoWified the whole game to try and make money.....
Not too long after that also changes started to come to EQ1 to make it alot more solo friendly.....Now in 2013, I dont think very many people that played pre 2004 would recognize EQ.....
The OP nailed how EQ fans feel pretty accurately.....
There were rumors that it was going to be alot like EQ was when it first came out....A return to the glory days of sorts....Then came August 2nd.....After reading about what they are planning, I really am not surprised at all......I had little faith that EQN would be anything like EQ was in its heyday...As great as that was for alot of us that played back then, the times have changed now.....
What SOE is doing is using EQs name for name recognition only.....It would be kinda like Blizzard calling their next MMO WoW Next even if it had nothing to do with Warcraft......EQN is just another feeble attempt by SOE to try and steal their portion of the market.....Instead of trying to make us a great game, they are ripping off other games, using the EQ name in vain, and basically crapping on people who have supported their company for years....Oh yeah and lets not forget this may not even be made for the PC.....This has all the writing of the PS4 all over it.
EQ2 was absolutely positively NOT designed to be hardcore. You could solo to max from launch. That was stated as far back as the reveal at SOE Live in Vegas by Scott Hartsman.
EQ2 was trying to capture the audience who couldn't do hardcore anymore or never wanted a hardcore game. All of its core features were a direct response to complaints from folks who wouldn't play or quit playing EQ. Compared to EQ, EQ2 was absolutely positively the 'casual' alternative - and was designed to be such.
They just didn't do as good a job at capturing their target audience as Blizzard - but both were going for the same group.
I don't deny that they WoWified it as soon as WoW exploded.
And the word rumors is correct, or even more accurately - assumptions. SOE never said EQ - people assumed it. They have other EQ games - you know about EQ2..... EQ2 is wildly different from EQ. Was that a spit in the face to fans?
Every game they have made has been distinctly different games - why on Earth would you think this would be different? You don't want them to gain inspiration from modern games - what do you want? The same thing you've played for years with a new skin? I DO NOT want EQ. I've played it. It was great. I want to play something NEW.
Of course I want them to be inspired by the best features of current games (and past games for that matter) - if they don't do it better, I won't play it.
But I want a new game. I want level-less. I want to build my own piece of Norrath using the same tools as developers - That's beyond sandbox to me. I want SOE Emote when I see those character models. I want the graphics to hold up forever. I want limited abilities with endless combinations. I want to explore to advance. I want vertical content. I like what I see happening on the EQ next round table. I want three month long rallies. I want destructability. I want constructability. I want those things because I've never had them before. I want the NEXT mmo - not a re-hash of the one I played 14 years ago. I don't know if they can deliver yet - but I know enough to be VERY interested.
But the OP did not nail how EQ fans feel....I am an EQ fan, I was there in '99 - I have 3 Vegas conventions under my belt and was in the first phase of EQ2 beta -
From what this EQ fan has seen - I am excited. I've played EQ. I've played EQ2. I want Everquest Next.
EQ2 was absolutely positively NOT designed to be hardcore. You could solo to max from launch. That was stated as far back as the reveal at SOE Live in Vegas by Scott Hartsman. I assume you never played EQII when it launched.. I did.. Because if you did you wouldn't have to quote someone, you would have first hand experience.. I played EQII and launch and it was HORRID.. Once you got past 15th level, It was damn near impossible to solo.. Doing heroic spell moves was BS.. and the Crafting was freaking insane.. People were dropping subs like flies and I was one of them..
EQ2 was trying to capture the audience who couldn't do hardcore anymore or never wanted a hardcore game. All of its core features were a direct response to complaints from folks who wouldn't play or quit playing EQ. Compared to EQ, EQ2 was absolutely positively the 'casual' alternative - and was designed to be such. /boggled
They just didn't do as good a job at capturing their target audience as Blizzard - but both were going for the same group.
I don't deny that they WoWified it as soon as WoW exploded.
And the word rumors is correct, or even more accurately - assumptions. SOE never said EQ - people assumed it. They have other EQ games - you know about EQ2..... EQ2 is wildly different from EQ. Was that a spit in the face to fans?
But I want a new game. I want level-less. I want to build my own piece of Norrath using the same tools as developers - That's beyond sandbox to me. I want SOE Emote when I see those character models. I want the graphics to hold up forever. I want limited abilities with endless combinations. I want to explore to advance. I want vertical content. I like what I see happening on the EQ next round table. I want three month long rallies. I want destructability. I want constructability. I want those things because I've never had them before. I want the NEXT mmo - not a re-hash of the one I played 14 years ago. I don't know if they can deliver yet - but I know enough to be VERY interested.
But the OP did not nail how EQ fans feel....I am an EQ fan, I was there in '99 - I have 3 Vegas conventions under my belt and was in the first phase of EQ2 beta -
From what this EQ fan has seen - I am excited. I've played EQ. I've played EQ2. I want Everquest Next.
Good luck.. I'll make note of your name here and see how you feel years down the road..
Whoa there... I am an EQ player (played from beta 2 through PoP and still have my beta discs and expansion boxes/swag). The only thing I feel is excited to have a new game that does not play like the other 100+ games currently out. Several EQ fan sites seem to have a lot of long time players who are excited as well (more so after the little info we got after the reveal). The same 11 posters (and their alt accounts) on this forum =/= a majority of the old school EQ players. So please, stop speaking for me (as well as other EQ players who are excited about seeing what EQN brings).
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Most veteran EQ players are pissed because they are using Everquest name to push a completely different game that is nothing like everquest. The entire system of no classes, no leveling, no trinity is just a weak cop out to not have to balance anything. There will be cookie cutter builds everywhere, the only people that don't realize this are retards. There will never be another everquest, at least not from SOE. The games going to be a F2p failure that is forgotten in 3 months. You can have all the voxel explosions you want. Make the players build the game, and then don't put any effort into real classes and real spells and talents. Laughable, that is why the REAL EQ fan base is super bummed. Will we all try it, ya probably. Will it retain people and have 16 expansions... good luck.
EQ2 was absolutely positively NOT designed to be hardcore. You could solo to max from launch. That was stated as far back as the reveal at SOE Live in Vegas by Scott Hartsman. I assume you never played EQII when it launched.. I did.. Because if you did you wouldn't have to quote someone, you would have first hand experience.. I played EQII and launch and it was HORRID.. Once you got past 15th level, It was damn near impossible to solo.. Doing heroic spell moves was BS.. and the Crafting was freaking insane.. People were dropping subs like flies and I was one of them..
EQ2 was trying to capture the audience who couldn't do hardcore anymore or never wanted a hardcore game. All of its core features were a direct response to complaints from folks who wouldn't play or quit playing EQ. Compared to EQ, EQ2 was absolutely positively the 'casual' alternative - and was designed to be such. /boggled
They just didn't do as good a job at capturing their target audience as Blizzard - but both were going for the same group.
I don't deny that they WoWified it as soon as WoW exploded.
And the word rumors is correct, or even more accurately - assumptions. SOE never said EQ - people assumed it. They have other EQ games - you know about EQ2..... EQ2 is wildly different from EQ. Was that a spit in the face to fans?
But I want a new game. I want level-less. I want to build my own piece of Norrath using the same tools as developers - That's beyond sandbox to me. I want SOE Emote when I see those character models. I want the graphics to hold up forever. I want limited abilities with endless combinations. I want to explore to advance. I want vertical content. I like what I see happening on the EQ next round table. I want three month long rallies. I want destructability. I want constructability. I want those things because I've never had them before. I want the NEXT mmo - not a re-hash of the one I played 14 years ago. I don't know if they can deliver yet - but I know enough to be VERY interested.
But the OP did not nail how EQ fans feel....I am an EQ fan, I was there in '99 - I have 3 Vegas conventions under my belt and was in the first phase of EQ2 beta -
From what this EQ fan has seen - I am excited. I've played EQ. I've played EQ2. I want Everquest Next.
Good luck.. I'll make note of your name here and see how you feel years down the road..
I played on day 1. And it was 10000% more casual than EQ was. Period.
Theres a reason the game is not called EQ3. You need to get over it. The game isnt being made for EQ1 or EQ2 players. Its a new product going in a completely different direction. If they wanted to remake EQ1 with better graphics they very well might have made EQ3, but that just isnt what they wanted.
I could not say any better. The developers said this taht EQN was going to be totally different game not a third EQ. I noticed that nostalgic EQ1 was spreading an idea that EQN was being made for them because somehow SOE owns them something big time because they still playing EQ. Big mistake. I welcome the new ideas that EQN are taking a risk to implement, the mmorpg genre cannot go backwards to 1999 or 2004 but evolve to new directions.
Then please for the love of GOD take the EverQuest name and Logo off their creation. Its only gonna cause ppl like me but who don't do their homework to be butthurt.
EQ2 was absolutely positively NOT designed to be hardcore. You could solo to max from launch. That was stated as far back as the reveal at SOE Live in Vegas by Scott Hartsman.
EQ2 was trying to capture the audience who couldn't do hardcore anymore or never wanted a hardcore game. All of its core features were a direct response to complaints from folks who wouldn't play or quit playing EQ. Compared to EQ, EQ2 was absolutely positively the 'casual' alternative - and was designed to be such.
They just didn't do as good a job at capturing their target audience as Blizzard - but both were going for the same group.
I don't deny that they WoWified it as soon as WoW exploded.
And the word rumors is correct, or even more accurately - assumptions. SOE never said EQ - people assumed it. They have other EQ games - you know about EQ2..... EQ2 is wildly different from EQ. Was that a spit in the face to fans?
Every game they have made has been distinctly different games - why on Earth would you think this would be different? You don't want them to gain inspiration from modern games - what do you want? The same thing you've played for years with a new skin? I DO NOT want EQ. I've played it. It was great. I want to play something NEW.
Of course I want them to be inspired by the best features of current games (and past games for that matter) - if they don't do it better, I won't play it.
But I want a new game. I want level-less. I want to build my own piece of Norrath using the same tools as developers - That's beyond sandbox to me. I want SOE Emote when I see those character models. I want the graphics to hold up forever. I want limited abilities with endless combinations. I want to explore to advance. I want vertical content. I like what I see happening on the EQ next round table. I want three month long rallies. I want destructability. I want constructability. I want those things because I've never had them before. I want the NEXT mmo - not a re-hash of the one I played 14 years ago. I don't know if they can deliver yet - but I know enough to be VERY interested.
But the OP did not nail how EQ fans feel....I am an EQ fan, I was there in '99 - I have 3 Vegas conventions under my belt and was in the first phase of EQ2 beta -
From what this EQ fan has seen - I am excited. I've played EQ. I've played EQ2. I want Everquest Next.
[mod edit]
Those of us who actually played those games back then clearly remember how hard EQ2 was at launsh. Loads of people left the game becous of that. for some classes it was impossible to finish their class quest without a group (those class quest were only to deside what kind your character direction was,like if you want to be a wizard or a warloc,was mage from start.),Thos quest ended around level 20. And beond level 20 it was hard for som classes to kill simple mobs that were even 2-4 levels below your. So dont tell us EQ2 was not a hardcore from start. They did change this a litle bit enough to get some of the players back but they did not change enough .
I think the OP needs to do some serious research into exactly what goes into 3d models, specifically how it pertains to game development.
1) Model resolution (low poly models) has nothing to do with game difficulty. It's there to relieve system stress, by lowering the amount of processing power needed to draw the same objects.
2) Model resolution has nothing to do with art style. All games model their characters in high rez first, and then downres / re-typologize them down to reduce the poly count.
- Games like WoW have high-poly models (even if not everyone uses them), and games like TSW / Defiance / etc. use lower-poly models.
Some games (like GW2) even have settings to swap between low & medium / high poly models to help reduce skill lag. Most of the detail you are seeing when it comes to MMOs has little to do w/ the actual poly count, and much more to do with things like texture quality (resolution), the shaders being used, how well / complex a thing is rigged, etc.
I understand how people wouldn't like the new art style. But please don't confuse that w/ anything else. It's the art style. It affects the look of the game, and to some extent (which we do not know), it might affect how complex / system to the game mechanics will have to be able to keep fidelity to that style. Don't assume things like 'difficulty' have anything to do with graphics. It makes you look fairly ignorant, and one only has to go play a game like anti-chamber, or any of the older console games to see how laughably flawed that logic is.
I am one of those old EQ players. I did not like the ease of EQ 2 or ?Wow and only played them for about a month. The cartoony look alone in WOW was awful for me.
So far the game does not look anything like EQ. They are just using the name,and the map? No levels, multilclass system, does not sound appealing. Like Guild Wars 2 or Rift. Joyless games in my opinion. My two granddaughters who are 4&5 have a level 59 paladin in GW2 all decked out in pink! They are particularly fond of the jumping part of the game, and have collected many Hearts! They are going to love EQ N in my opinion. They have a huge collection of My Little Pony's, which I imagine from just the looks of it, will be showing up in this game too.
Ripping off Disney, in both the Belle and Lion King characters! The combat they showed , lol, was for geared towards very young children!
Positive aspects so far;
I will say the Landmark, and Player Studio looks interesting.
Ok, that is all I have right now for positive, and it could change when we learn more. We still do not know everything.
I think for myself and others like me, we will not be happy until they make the Original EQ with better graphics, and better time constraints on raiding. By original, I am not referring to what EQ is today, in it's present form. I no longer believe Sony will be making that game for us. If someone did come along with a kick starter program to do so, I will help support that.
I will try it, but I do not expect much wow factor, or enjoyable group game play will be coming from it! Would be nice to be proven wrong.
We are given a glass of champagne as we enter the immense conference hall where EQNext will be revealed to us. The crowd is excited, as this is the culmination of months of anticipation. A video is shown that demonstrates how Everquest has changed the very lives of its players. One woman gave a testimonial about how she was able to regain her eyesight because of the hope that Everquest gave her. Dramatic music swells, and Smedley toasts everyone and says that they are moved by the effect of their game, and that they now want to give these cherished fans the next Everquest experience.
And so after reminding everyone of what EQ is, they bombarded the poor EQ fans with something so alien and unlike the game they love. I'm not surprised they are pissed. They just had the rug pulled out from underneath them.
The new game is evolutionary, but if people are that into EQ, I can't blame them for having some difficulty digesting EQN.
Comments
I'm an EQ player, and I'm not upset. I'm excited.
So what's this 'we' business?
EQ2 is probably the best example of how SOE thinks....The game was made to be hardcore...You had to group to do everything...Crafting consisted of having to make components to be used in the tradeskill....It was tedious to say the least, but it rewarrded teh hard working.....Then along comes WoW.....EQ2 starts to lose subs and WoW explodes.....SOE then does a 180 on EQ2 and starts making changes like crazy......It goes from a hardcore group based game to a solo quest fest to max level, just like WoW....Several other features of the game are dumbed down and they basically WoWified the whole game to try and make money.....
Not too long after that also changes started to come to EQ1 to make it alot more solo friendly.....Now in 2013, I dont think very many people that played pre 2004 would recognize EQ.....
The OP nailed how EQ fans feel pretty accurately.....The one thing that many of us have known though is that SOE is all about the money...They have never been about making a great game, not even EQ....EQ could have been even better but SOE started getting ridiculous with the lore to crank out expansions......I think most MMO players are Ok with change but when a company constantly is asking you to keep paying for things it gets old fast.....
I was concerned about EQN from the moment i heard about it....There were rumors that it was going to be alot like EQ was when it first came out....A return to the glory days of sorts....Then came August 2nd.....After reading about what they are planning, I really am not surprised at all......I had little faith that EQN would be anything like EQ was in its heyday...As great as that was for alot of us that played back then, the times have changed now.....
After we got the info on the 2nd, it sounded to me like SOE is trying to cash in on 2-3 games that are hot today (GW2, minecraft, Vindictus maybe also)......I think I'd be OK with this if they would have just left the EQ name out of it......If this game was called Blockheadland" where everyone just goes around destroying everything I might have even have been on board....I probably wouldnt play a game like that but it wouldn't bother me......
What SOE is doing is using EQs name for name recognition only.....It would be kinda like Blizzard calling their next MMO WoW Next even if it had nothing to do with Warcraft......EQN is just another feeble attempt by SOE to try and steal their portion of the market.....Instead of trying to make us a great game, they are ripping off other games, using the EQ name in vain, and basically crapping on people who have supported their company for years....Oh yeah and lets not forget this may not even be made for the PC.....This has all the writing of the PS4 all over it.
I know right, I love how people can actually have the audacity to feel validated to speak on behest of a "group" of internet people who they have never. I played EQ1 pre-luclin and I'm glad they aren't making the same game again. Think about it if all they did was make a rehash of EQ1 who would actually play it for more than a few months? We already did that shit before. its like why would we all still drive Model T's when you know the mileage is gonna suck and you have to wear goggles to drive.
EQ1 was good cause it was new and different and unlike anything most of us had ever played before. Now why would we want an EQ1 2.0?
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
Um.. No they didn't. They reworked the first few levels so that instead of starting as an archetype, you picked your final class at creation. And they reworked some of the overland zones to make them a bit less deadly to a solo player to move through. And they simplified the crafting system to reduce the fiddly inter-craft dependency that was gating everyone's progress.
Combat mechanics themselves really didn't change at all. (Though individual classes might have had some changes I don't remember...)
*edit* Ah! They did mess about quite a bit with hard caps and soft caps... but that only really affected end game raiding in specific encounters.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
Do you like lollipops? Suck it. Don't bite you greedy twit.
I think what some people are missing is that EQN was indeed meant to be something completely different akin to the new star trak movie. It is not meant to replace EQ1 or EQ2, it is in addition too; the first two games will stay in development for those that like that style of gaming. A target of EQN is to bring in new players into the Sony family of games. One can not do that if they keep making the same-old, same-old. They regretted, day one, calling EQ2, EQ2, and they didn't do that with EQN, hence it's not offically called EQ3.
It's a bad anology, but think of the star wars movies. You have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6... But outside that there are countless books, animations, a rumored TV series and even more movies in the works. People HATED the clon wars animation look but it was still popular and is still going. It was meant for a new generation and it brought in just that. One group maynot like it, but another group dose.
If they want to reboot their IP (SoE) with a new reinvisioning - I say good for them. It's risky and not many companies would, but then again we have been plagued with failures in the mmo market over the past 8 years.
Would I personal like to see EQ1 but with better graphics? I would. But I would also like to learn more about their current project before breaking out the pitchforks and torches.
hah nice.
Even EQ1 changed over time. Remember the eariest years where we had to stare at our spellbooks to regain mana, even in combat? None of this easy-mode in-combat mana regeneration. Trying to find a safe place to sit for 10 minutes while mana regenerated, staring at "the book" hoping the footsteps you're hearing are friendly. heh.
Well, be prepared to be disappointed, you do not make a game for the masses, and make it hard. This is the direction they have chosen, telegraphed moves, etc... Not going to happen. It will most likely be one of the easiest mmos on the market, that will look to keep people with the landmark stuff, rally calls and other things, but challenge in pve is not a mechanic that I think will be present...This is truly a shot at mass appeal, some people were hoping for something that was targeted as more niche, but they weren't the opposite way.
If the combat were hard, I would be more shocked than the reveal.
You might not want to admit this, but hardcore gaming crowd IS indeed decreasing. Why do you think they made EQ1 easier? Why do you think WoW is such a big success? Why do you think they try to make EQN this way? They can't just ignore what most people want to cater to those who are willing to spend 16 hrs a day on video games.
Then again, if the hardcore EQ players are open to changes and the more casual mechanics, they won't still be hanging on to their sweet memories from the first year of EQ1.
Obviously now SOE is going after a whole new market.. Twitch fantasy sandbox.. I don't know what the market size is, but it's a gamble.. I personally think a bad gamble, but hey.. I'm not the one that has a questionable track record of games since 2005..
I'm starting to think that SOE is just a cheap one hit wonder.. lol
EQ2 was terrible at launch. I would know, since it was my first MMO. It was actually better when it overhauled the game to be a little similar to WoW..
EQ2 was absolutely positively NOT designed to be hardcore. You could solo to max from launch. That was stated as far back as the reveal at SOE Live in Vegas by Scott Hartsman.
EQ2 was trying to capture the audience who couldn't do hardcore anymore or never wanted a hardcore game. All of its core features were a direct response to complaints from folks who wouldn't play or quit playing EQ. Compared to EQ, EQ2 was absolutely positively the 'casual' alternative - and was designed to be such.
They just didn't do as good a job at capturing their target audience as Blizzard - but both were going for the same group.
I don't deny that they WoWified it as soon as WoW exploded.
And the word rumors is correct, or even more accurately - assumptions. SOE never said EQ - people assumed it. They have other EQ games - you know about EQ2..... EQ2 is wildly different from EQ. Was that a spit in the face to fans?
Every game they have made has been distinctly different games - why on Earth would you think this would be different? You don't want them to gain inspiration from modern games - what do you want? The same thing you've played for years with a new skin? I DO NOT want EQ. I've played it. It was great. I want to play something NEW.
Of course I want them to be inspired by the best features of current games (and past games for that matter) - if they don't do it better, I won't play it.
But I want a new game. I want level-less. I want to build my own piece of Norrath using the same tools as developers - That's beyond sandbox to me. I want SOE Emote when I see those character models. I want the graphics to hold up forever. I want limited abilities with endless combinations. I want to explore to advance. I want vertical content. I like what I see happening on the EQ next round table. I want three month long rallies. I want destructability. I want constructability. I want those things because I've never had them before. I want the NEXT mmo - not a re-hash of the one I played 14 years ago. I don't know if they can deliver yet - but I know enough to be VERY interested.
But the OP did not nail how EQ fans feel....I am an EQ fan, I was there in '99 - I have 3 Vegas conventions under my belt and was in the first phase of EQ2 beta -
From what this EQ fan has seen - I am excited. I've played EQ. I've played EQ2. I want Everquest Next.
Good luck.. I'll make note of your name here and see how you feel years down the road..
"EQ Players are upset"
Not the ones I know...
"SOE Owes the players"
No, no they don't...
"We as EQ players feel..."
Whoa there... I am an EQ player (played from beta 2 through PoP and still have my beta discs and expansion boxes/swag). The only thing I feel is excited to have a new game that does not play like the other 100+ games currently out. Several EQ fan sites seem to have a lot of long time players who are excited as well (more so after the little info we got after the reveal). The same 11 posters (and their alt accounts) on this forum =/= a majority of the old school EQ players. So please, stop speaking for me (as well as other EQ players who are excited about seeing what EQN brings).
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I played on day 1. And it was 10000% more casual than EQ was. Period.
I could not say any better. The developers said this taht EQN was going to be totally different game not a third EQ. I noticed that nostalgic EQ1 was spreading an idea that EQN was being made for them because somehow SOE owns them something big time because they still playing EQ. Big mistake. I welcome the new ideas that EQN are taking a risk to implement, the mmorpg genre cannot go backwards to 1999 or 2004 but evolve to new directions.
[mod edit]
Those of us who actually played those games back then clearly remember how hard EQ2 was at launsh. Loads of people left the game becous of that. for some classes it was impossible to finish their class quest without a group (those class quest were only to deside what kind your character direction was,like if you want to be a wizard or a warloc,was mage from start.),Thos quest ended around level 20. And beond level 20 it was hard for som classes to kill simple mobs that were even 2-4 levels below your. So dont tell us EQ2 was not a hardcore from start. They did change this a litle bit enough to get some of the players back but they did not change enough .
WoW wasn't that easy when it first came out, so Idk what you are talking about really.
Maybe you are confused about the difference between hard and tedious.
I think the OP needs to do some serious research into exactly what goes into 3d models, specifically how it pertains to game development.
1) Model resolution (low poly models) has nothing to do with game difficulty. It's there to relieve system stress, by lowering the amount of processing power needed to draw the same objects.
2) Model resolution has nothing to do with art style. All games model their characters in high rez first, and then downres / re-typologize them down to reduce the poly count.
- Games like WoW have high-poly models (even if not everyone uses them), and games like TSW / Defiance / etc. use lower-poly models.
Some games (like GW2) even have settings to swap between low & medium / high poly models to help reduce skill lag. Most of the detail you are seeing when it comes to MMOs has little to do w/ the actual poly count, and much more to do with things like texture quality (resolution), the shaders being used, how well / complex a thing is rigged, etc.
I understand how people wouldn't like the new art style. But please don't confuse that w/ anything else. It's the art style. It affects the look of the game, and to some extent (which we do not know), it might affect how complex / system to the game mechanics will have to be able to keep fidelity to that style. Don't assume things like 'difficulty' have anything to do with graphics. It makes you look fairly ignorant, and one only has to go play a game like anti-chamber, or any of the older console games to see how laughably flawed that logic is.
I am one of those old EQ players. I did not like the ease of EQ 2 or ?Wow and only played them for about a month. The cartoony look alone in WOW was awful for me.
So far the game does not look anything like EQ. They are just using the name,and the map? No levels, multilclass system, does not sound appealing. Like Guild Wars 2 or Rift. Joyless games in my opinion. My two granddaughters who are 4&5 have a level 59 paladin in GW2 all decked out in pink! They are particularly fond of the jumping part of the game, and have collected many Hearts! They are going to love EQ N in my opinion. They have a huge collection of My Little Pony's, which I imagine from just the looks of it, will be showing up in this game too.
Ripping off Disney, in both the Belle and Lion King characters! The combat they showed , lol, was for geared towards very young children!
Positive aspects so far;
I will say the Landmark, and Player Studio looks interesting.
Ok, that is all I have right now for positive, and it could change when we learn more. We still do not know everything.
I think for myself and others like me, we will not be happy until they make the Original EQ with better graphics, and better time constraints on raiding. By original, I am not referring to what EQ is today, in it's present form. I no longer believe Sony will be making that game for us. If someone did come along with a kick starter program to do so, I will help support that.
I will try it, but I do not expect much wow factor, or enjoyable group game play will be coming from it! Would be nice to be proven wrong.
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/mhoward48/media/OnwYv97.jpg.html
SOE Live:
We are given a glass of champagne as we enter the immense conference hall where EQNext will be revealed to us. The crowd is excited, as this is the culmination of months of anticipation. A video is shown that demonstrates how Everquest has changed the very lives of its players. One woman gave a testimonial about how she was able to regain her eyesight because of the hope that Everquest gave her. Dramatic music swells, and Smedley toasts everyone and says that they are moved by the effect of their game, and that they now want to give these cherished fans the next Everquest experience.
And so after reminding everyone of what EQ is, they bombarded the poor EQ fans with something so alien and unlike the game they love. I'm not surprised they are pissed. They just had the rug pulled out from underneath them.
The new game is evolutionary, but if people are that into EQ, I can't blame them for having some difficulty digesting EQN.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011