Originally posted by magickal32 I love how some people automatically condemn a game that is far from finished, and they have yet to try. There are things I do like about Eqnext, and things I don't like, same with all games. I think the "cartoony" graphics are a bonus. I really don't see why so many people will hate on those type of graphics like that is what makes or breaks a game. As long as the graphics aren't a total eyesore, gameplay is my primary concern. I will reserve judgement for when I can actually try the game.
For the record, The art direction didn't bother me. I mean it didn't set my world on fire, but I can still play through that.
Putting that aside, Why do you need to "see" why people don't like the art direction? Isn't it enough for you to know that they just don't and they have every right to express that? For some, the graphics are a deal breaker, that's what stimulates them. You don't need to "see" that, just know that it is so
Originally posted by magickal32 I love how some people automatically condemn a game that is far from finished, and they have yet to try. There are things I do like about Eqnext, and things I don't like, same with all games. I think the "cartoony" graphics are a bonus. I really don't see why so many people will hate on those type of graphics like that is what makes or breaks a game. As long as the graphics aren't a total eyesore, gameplay is my primary concern. I will reserve judgement for when I can actually try the game.
I don't like Horror movies. Im not going to go see one because they used a new camera to film it with or its some new form of 3D or they innovated the genre in some way. Its not my cup of tea so ill keep my 16 bucks.
Same with EQN. I HATE the overly cartoony feel of the game and i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
So thats how i can condemn EQN before its finished. Because i know its not going to be something ill want to play. I wont have to reserve judgment for release, i have all the info i need to know EQN ( for me ) will be a complete letdown.
Though I was surprised at the cumulative info at the reveal, it was more positive than negative. The gameplay implications of having a world made of "sand" is manifold. The way this connects to exploration and crafting is very exciting and just listening to the panels they are putting together something we just don't have right now.
My biggest concern is the depth of classes. With so many hopefully they add depth to them and don't assume that just collecting more will be enough.
On the graphics... I would have liked more PS2 style models as well but you have to ask yourself how that would seem to the average gamer. It would get pretty bland after a while. So far what we have seen is a combat-ish video and a brief example of what facial expressions are possible with the exaggerated style. I think once we see how expressive NPCs, and PCs, are when in full dialog the brilliance will show itself to those who currently don't like it. Some will never be happy with it but I imagine after playing the full game for a week, or even a day, the synergy of the art assets will allow sceptics to enjoy it.
The thread about what is actually in game would be terribly short. Is there even a single known confirmed working element in the game? Other than the visuals of the characters?
Seems to me that nearly every normal mmo mechanic is tied to Storybrick AI. Class building (npc rewards), combat (aggro), factions (there are no factions only AI...), mob placement, mob movement, and so on. Until they release information about that, everything we actually know can be boiled down to - We know some lore - EQ:N features destructable environment (but details are minimal at best on how it will work overall) - EQ:N Landmark is a very fancy minecraft. - We know the graphic style, that at least some character animations are in game along with some special abilities.
Any element based on how the world will work beyond that is pretty images (personal graphical preference) and fluff words. Will there be trains as they have said no leashing of mobs? Unknown, based on Storybricks. How will the world be populated with mobs? Unknown, based on Storybricks. How will NPC interaction work? Unknown, based on storybricks. How will quests work? Unknwon, based on Storybricks....
I see it as in one of two ways. To avoid the backlash from showing nothing at SOE Live last year, to promising a playable version of EQ:N and not delivering, they had to talk about something good. Enter Storybricks. If it works and is as intricate like they say, it will revolutionize the mmo/gaming industry. EQ:N Landmark is not a revolution, neither is a destroyable world. A deliver on the promise of a world that comes alive through fancy AI is. "We do not place mobs in the world, we set them free to go where they will". That is a very bold statement.
1) Either they are not talking about the details of storybricks because it is not functional beyond theory on paper. They release EQ:N Landmark, their design tool, to let people simmer while they try to work it out. Along with them getting people to create content for them. In this scenario, they are holding back information, because currently there is no more to talk about. They have design documents. They have given us the idea they have, which sounds great, but it is now left to them to develop.
--- SOE Live 2014 will then be them telling us of their slightly less exciting game with normal static mob placement, non wandering mobs and a "dynamic world" as seen in GW2. Might not be bad, but the "revolution" part they will focus on is the "success off EQ:N Landmark and our fantastic fans who made it a success! A world help built by the players. Community like no other! No other mmo has ever had our level of dev / player interaction. This is OUR game! Now soon going into beta! Check your e-mail".
I see it as in one of two ways. To avoid the backlash from showing nothing at SOE Live last year, to promising a playable version of EQ:N and not delivering, they had to talk about something good. Enter Storybricks. If it works and is as intricate like they say, it will revolutionize the mmo/gaming industry. EQ:N Landmark is not a revolution, neither is a destroyable world. A deliver on the promise of a world that comes alive through fancy AI is. "We do not place mobs in the world, we set them free to go where they will". That is a very bold statement.
I get that you're not letting yourself be fooled by the hype, no-one should, but i think you're getting carried away with the extreme negativity here. Haters arn't any better than fanboys you know.
A) You can't have a fit because the devs didn't allow the game to be playable to the public after they said they would, but then complain because the devs didn't give all the details you wanted in an an early build of a WIP game so early in development. WoW promised PVP and siege weapons at release > scandal when it didn't happen, WAR promised 8 starting cities at release > scandal when it was only 2. Everyone in the gaming industry use to give accurate release dates much further in advance than now instead of saying "when it's done". It's like that now since if the game was delayed many would cry foul because they were misled and lied too, if it came out earlier people would feel cheated because they felt that the extra development time should have been used for more features even though the game was feature complete.
If building and destroying a world (even limited) is not revolutionary in an MMO, you need to explain what MMO ever was. It's also not unreasonable to believe the claims about AI since it's already been done in plenty of non-MMOs (and is even more common than full destructability that's only really been done by Minecraft). I think many here are perfectly willing to accept that everything SOE said about EQN might turn out to be BS, but it's far more fun to hope/speculate on something that promises to not have (and to provide far more) all the same BS I quit WoW for 3 years ago.
The current MMORPG AI is so far behind the rest of the industry, had upcoming MMOs been released a decade ago it would still be beyond unnacceptable.
And you know what? Worse case scenario, EQN flops hard and we all hate it, the simple fact of pointing out alot of the complacency and overall lazyness of other MMO developpers when it comes to innovation, would quite likely improve everyone's gaming experience once other developpers take note of what went wrong and what went right, and develop their new games with that in mind.
Originally posted by Krimzin I noticed that there isn't the same gap between FFXIV and EQN now, that there was a couple weeks ago. FFXIV is going up and EQN is going down. I for one changed my hype from 10 to 4 after seeing the reveal.
The hype before was hypothetical.
No game will ever have the hype that EQN had before the reveal, its just not that possible to please everyone, especially EQ players who want another hard game in this instant gratification society.
I changed mine from a 10 to an 8 I believe, only because the combat and class buffoonery. EQ Next still has more innovative features than every other MMO coming out in the next 2 years combined.
Not to detract from your statement.....but in reality we still don't know how hard the game is - it's just a guess that it will be easy; for all we know it could be D3 on Inferno )
We don't know death penalties yet - we don't know how difficult it will be to obtain all the classes/skills - heck, they did say the game is tracking all of our actions - maybe we are responsible for how hard or difficult it is .
Really - just being devil's advocate - I'm putting my money on casual. But there are still a lot of details to be revealed which will determine the game's ultimate difficulty.
In part, this is what confuses me about some of the hardliners asking for EQAgain instead of EQNext - all they know is that the graphics and combat system are different than they imagined - there is sooooo much more to come before drawing any conclusions.
Well when they say you can "2 man raid" then it really says something about the prospect of the difficulty. They pretty much took out intricate fights that require real team work and went the zerg route of GW2 with their DE bosses.
Could there be intricate and hard boss fights? Sure, but the prospect is greatly diminished when you don't need a large team and chances are it's just a "get out of the red circle" beat down.
Originally posted by xAPOCx ...i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
Same here. Action combat belongs in the FPS realm; it is simply not RPG.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by xAPOCx ...i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
Same here. Action combat belongs in the FPS realm; it is simply not RPG.
Tell that to Bioware, people who more or less put action RPGs on the map (ironically them not doing so with SWTOR pretty much hurt the game, along with some other decisions), or do you not consider games like Mass Effect RPGs. Speaking of which, what do you think about FPSRPGs like Fallout 3/New Vegas?
Originally posted by xAPOCx ...i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
Same here. Action combat belongs in the FPS realm; it is simply not RPG.
Tell that to Bioware, people who more or less put action RPGs on the map (ironically them not doing so with SWTOR pretty much hurt the game, along with some other decisions), or do you not consider games like Mass Effect RPGs. Speaking of which, what do you think about FPSRPGs like Fallout 3/New Vegas?
People tend to forget about the achievments of genre in lou of focusing on what they believe to be a negative. "Hack and Slash" games are action RPGs that have been great for years.
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Remember that the hype system is purely a vote system, and I'm willing to be that all the babies crying "CARTOON" zero bombing the shit out of it. As for page hits, it has more than double that of FFXIV in the past 6 months, and information has only been available for 2 weeks.
The people crying about these "graphics" can't even type well, let alone lead an interesting conversation, or hold a solid argument on the matter.
My hype level dropped because I have little interest in an 8 skill at a time console/arcade-like single player game passing itself off as an MMORPG. The fact that the game is releasing as F2P is also a major negative for me since F2P is trash.
I just don't forsee any EQN news coming that involves a solid style of grouping when the game involves simplistic characters with 8 skills up. There just won't be any depth and little potential for structured anything with that.
EverQuest (which is still going) helped establish the genre and featured plenty of challenge and was almost entirely group-oriented. EQN seems like it'll be a very different game and not worthy of the EverQuest name.
Seems like companies keep trying harder and harder to appeal to nonMMORPG players and the games keep getting worse and worse for it.
I want the challenge and MM in MMORPG to come back and was hoping EQN would go in that direction, but it seems like it's going to be more like a GW2 or TESO - a game for soloists somewhat sharing space and a weak representation of an MMORPG.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Aye i am also abit disapointed and has put it on a 5. One take WoW and a GW2 little bit of this and that and add a little pepper to it and you have EQN.
This is how i was watching the presentation.
I still hope iwm totaly wrong, and can change my vieuw once i played it, but all the tools we have seen showed us everything we already saw in WoW + GW2 except detructible stuff, like in the Frostbite engine of Battlefield.
But i like to be suprised, maybe i am totaly wrong
Originally posted by MadDemon64 Originally posted by ArclanOriginally posted by xAPOCx...i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
Same here. Action combat belongs in the FPS realm; it is simply not RPG.Tell that to Bioware, people who more or less put action RPGs on the map (ironically them not doing so with SWTOR pretty much hurt the game, along with some other decisions), or do you not consider games like Mass Effect RPGs. Speaking of which, what do you think about FPSRPGs like Fallout 3/New Vegas?
Fallout 3 was great but it's a single player game. Haven't played Mass Effect. I enjoy action combat in games where human interaction is not the focal point, such as FPS or single player games. Mechanics which prevent players from talking, such as action combat, are not welcome in my MMORPGs.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
For the record, The art direction didn't bother me. I mean it didn't set my world on fire, but I can still play through that.
Putting that aside, Why do you need to "see" why people don't like the art direction? Isn't it enough for you to know that they just don't and they have every right to express that? For some, the graphics are a deal breaker, that's what stimulates them. You don't need to "see" that, just know that it is so
Excpet for when GW2 broke 9 and then fell back to 8.9. What a big to-do that day was.
I don't like Horror movies. Im not going to go see one because they used a new camera to film it with or its some new form of 3D or they innovated the genre in some way. Its not my cup of tea so ill keep my 16 bucks.
Same with EQN. I HATE the overly cartoony feel of the game and i HATE action combat in my MMOs. Action Combat in MMOs is like putting coffee in my cereal. Two great tastes that DON'T go together.
So thats how i can condemn EQN before its finished. Because i know its not going to be something ill want to play. I wont have to reserve judgment for release, i have all the info i need to know EQN ( for me ) will be a complete letdown.
Though I was surprised at the cumulative info at the reveal, it was more positive than negative. The gameplay implications of having a world made of "sand" is manifold. The way this connects to exploration and crafting is very exciting and just listening to the panels they are putting together something we just don't have right now.
My biggest concern is the depth of classes. With so many hopefully they add depth to them and don't assume that just collecting more will be enough.
On the graphics... I would have liked more PS2 style models as well but you have to ask yourself how that would seem to the average gamer. It would get pretty bland after a while. So far what we have seen is a combat-ish video and a brief example of what facial expressions are possible with the exaggerated style. I think once we see how expressive NPCs, and PCs, are when in full dialog the brilliance will show itself to those who currently don't like it. Some will never be happy with it but I imagine after playing the full game for a week, or even a day, the synergy of the art assets will allow sceptics to enjoy it.
The thread about what is actually in game would be terribly short. Is there even a single known confirmed working element in the game? Other than the visuals of the characters?
Seems to me that nearly every normal mmo mechanic is tied to Storybrick AI. Class building (npc rewards), combat (aggro), factions (there are no factions only AI...), mob placement, mob movement, and so on. Until they release information about that, everything we actually know can be boiled down to
- We know some lore
- EQ:N features destructable environment (but details are minimal at best on how it will work overall)
- EQ:N Landmark is a very fancy minecraft.
- We know the graphic style, that at least some character animations are in game along with some special abilities.
Any element based on how the world will work beyond that is pretty images (personal graphical preference) and fluff words.
Will there be trains as they have said no leashing of mobs? Unknown, based on Storybricks.
How will the world be populated with mobs? Unknown, based on Storybricks.
How will NPC interaction work? Unknown, based on storybricks.
How will quests work? Unknwon, based on Storybricks....
I see it as in one of two ways. To avoid the backlash from showing nothing at SOE Live last year, to promising a playable version of EQ:N and not delivering, they had to talk about something good. Enter Storybricks. If it works and is as intricate like they say, it will revolutionize the mmo/gaming industry. EQ:N Landmark is not a revolution, neither is a destroyable world. A deliver on the promise of a world that comes alive through fancy AI is. "We do not place mobs in the world, we set them free to go where they will". That is a very bold statement.
1) Either they are not talking about the details of storybricks because it is not functional beyond theory on paper. They release EQ:N Landmark, their design tool, to let people simmer while they try to work it out. Along with them getting people to create content for them. In this scenario, they are holding back information, because currently there is no more to talk about. They have design documents. They have given us the idea they have, which sounds great, but it is now left to them to develop.
--- SOE Live 2014 will then be them telling us of their slightly less exciting game with normal static mob placement, non wandering mobs and a "dynamic world" as seen in GW2. Might not be bad, but the "revolution" part they will focus on is the "success off EQ:N Landmark and our fantastic fans who made it a success! A world help built by the players. Community like no other! No other mmo has ever had our level of dev / player interaction. This is OUR game! Now soon going into beta! Check your e-mail".
- Droigan from Rerolled.org
I get that you're not letting yourself be fooled by the hype, no-one should, but i think you're getting carried away with the extreme negativity here. Haters arn't any better than fanboys you know.
A) You can't have a fit because the devs didn't allow the game to be playable to the public after they said they would, but then complain because the devs didn't give all the details you wanted in an an early build of a WIP game so early in development. WoW promised PVP and siege weapons at release > scandal when it didn't happen, WAR promised 8 starting cities at release > scandal when it was only 2. Everyone in the gaming industry use to give accurate release dates much further in advance than now instead of saying "when it's done". It's like that now since if the game was delayed many would cry foul because they were misled and lied too, if it came out earlier people would feel cheated because they felt that the extra development time should have been used for more features even though the game was feature complete.
The current MMORPG AI is so far behind the rest of the industry, had upcoming MMOs been released a decade ago it would still be beyond unnacceptable.
And you know what? Worse case scenario, EQN flops hard and we all hate it, the simple fact of pointing out alot of the complacency and overall lazyness of other MMO developpers when it comes to innovation, would quite likely improve everyone's gaming experience once other developpers take note of what went wrong and what went right, and develop their new games with that in mind.
Well when they say you can "2 man raid" then it really says something about the prospect of the difficulty. They pretty much took out intricate fights that require real team work and went the zerg route of GW2 with their DE bosses.
Could there be intricate and hard boss fights? Sure, but the prospect is greatly diminished when you don't need a large team and chances are it's just a "get out of the red circle" beat down.
Same here. Action combat belongs in the FPS realm; it is simply not RPG.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Tell that to Bioware, people who more or less put action RPGs on the map (ironically them not doing so with SWTOR pretty much hurt the game, along with some other decisions), or do you not consider games like Mass Effect RPGs. Speaking of which, what do you think about FPSRPGs like Fallout 3/New Vegas?
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
People tend to forget about the achievments of genre in lou of focusing on what they believe to be a negative. "Hack and Slash" games are action RPGs that have been great for years.
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Remember that the hype system is purely a vote system, and I'm willing to be that all the babies crying "CARTOON" zero bombing the shit out of it. As for page hits, it has more than double that of FFXIV in the past 6 months, and information has only been available for 2 weeks.
The people crying about these "graphics" can't even type well, let alone lead an interesting conversation, or hold a solid argument on the matter.
My hype level dropped because I have little interest in an 8 skill at a time console/arcade-like single player game passing itself off as an MMORPG. The fact that the game is releasing as F2P is also a major negative for me since F2P is trash.
I just don't forsee any EQN news coming that involves a solid style of grouping when the game involves simplistic characters with 8 skills up. There just won't be any depth and little potential for structured anything with that.
EverQuest (which is still going) helped establish the genre and featured plenty of challenge and was almost entirely group-oriented. EQN seems like it'll be a very different game and not worthy of the EverQuest name.
Seems like companies keep trying harder and harder to appeal to nonMMORPG players and the games keep getting worse and worse for it.
I want the challenge and MM in MMORPG to come back and was hoping EQN would go in that direction, but it seems like it's going to be more like a GW2 or TESO - a game for soloists somewhat sharing space and a weak representation of an MMORPG.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Except that EQN hype wasnt even close to the hype level that GW2 had.
Aye i am also abit disapointed and has put it on a 5.
One take WoW and a GW2 little bit of this and that and add a little pepper to it and you have EQN.
This is how i was watching the presentation.
I still hope iwm totaly wrong, and can change my vieuw once i played it, but all the tools we have seen showed us everything we already saw in WoW + GW2 except detructible stuff, like in the Frostbite engine of Battlefield.
But i like to be suprised, maybe i am totaly wrong
Tell that to Bioware, people who more or less put action RPGs on the map (ironically them not doing so with SWTOR pretty much hurt the game, along with some other decisions), or do you not consider games like Mass Effect RPGs. Speaking of which, what do you think about FPSRPGs like Fallout 3/New Vegas?
Fallout 3 was great but it's a single player game. Haven't played Mass Effect. I enjoy action combat in games where human interaction is not the focal point, such as FPS or single player games. Mechanics which prevent players from talking, such as action combat, are not welcome in my MMORPGs.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit