Originally posted by Arskaaa world of minecraft? i see what u did there. EQN is not WoW clone as others mmorpgs.
World of minecraft would be more popular than WOW.
The kids adore minecraft and so do adults. Minecraft is too good of a game to be bent over by mmo devs. they'd more than likely remove everything that's awesome about minecraft and replace it with quests and lfg tool. then add gear based raiding endgame while they remove the ability to build stuff. Blame the customers for failing then get hired as an expert somewhere to destroy another IP while losing money. ]
I bet most people wouldn't even be surprised. The usual people would defend the same design decisions claiming minecraft was too niche. That one dude would be like I play games to be entertained, building stuff isn't entertaining that's why the free games I freeload in dont add building.
EQN should be so lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as minecraft.
Dunno how many player minecraft have but least they have over 7 million facebook fan.
if EQN get half thouse minecraft fans tpo play game and others half from mmorpgs, game gonna be huge succees.
No. IMO Landmark has a lot of potential. Probably the ONLY thing that isn't 100% suck about Neverwinter is foundry. Landmark could be Foundry on steroids. I don't like the cash angle of it though. Make content because you love to, not to make a few pennies in an MMORPG. It's just a way for SOE to take a cut off of your creativity anyways. Lame.
For me it's more the fact that 8 skills per character isn't an MMORPG - it's dumbed down beyond infantile. It makes the panda look deep and compelling. It's the action/arcade/console feel. It's console-first design mentality that doesn't suit PC games OR MMORPGs. It's zero lack of mention of group-based PvE. It's making a big deal out of destructible content - which is a neato effect - but which is NOT something I'd consider 1 of 4 design pillars for a good MMORPG. Please.
A lot of people were hoping for something that was more of a return to real MMORPGs - you know, the early games that formed the genre. Grouping, challenge, strong community vs the more and more solo ez-mode get epics just for showing up style that gets worse all the time. MMORPGs are getting further and further away from the original style and are sucking more and more because of it.
No sub-based MMORPG since WoW has managed to continue with a sub. They're all F2P garbage now. It isn't because people won't pay subs. It's because when you make so-called MMORPGs that are 95% solo ez-mode, don't create enough group content, and don't create enough challenge, your game is ultimately boring, even to mouth breathers who can barely login without mommies help and can only solo rats without crying that the game is too hard.
Boring games aren't worth a sub. Games that are 95% solo and you can finish that solo content in a month or less and that lack endgame to keep people busy for more than a month or two aren't worth a sub. Maybe, just maybe, someone should create a game for real MMORPG players where it takes longer than 20 minutes to level to cap and where you need to group most of the time, and that has challenge at all levels instead of easily avoidable challenge and see how that goes. People can either adapt, rise, learn, grow, and become real MMORPG players or just not play. Would it matter if they just don't play when most of them don't really play as it is? These "casuals" devs keep trying to design for just mow thru the solo easy mode content that takes years and millions to create in a few days and move on. WHY develop for that audience? Why not develop for the type of people who helped establish the genre and who will stick with a worthy game for years?
Boring games do not keep people's attention. Games with no challenge aren't good games. The other thing is that real MMORPG players group and want to play a game for years on end. Fast food MMORPGs end up not working for ANY audience because they're like single player games - finish content and done.
I personally want the MM to return to MMORPG. I don't consider a bunch of soloists sharing a game world, littering chat with stupidity, and barely interacting to be an MMORPG. It's massively SINGLE player online and it's boring as hell in every way. GW2 is THE game for confused people who want to solo in so called MMORPGs and it's a very boring game. GW2 has some interesting ideas (although when you consider jumping puzzles to be the best content in the game that's pretty telling) but they end up getting pounded into the ground thru merciless repetition. TESO is going to be the same trash with a different wrapper - weak skyrm with lots of people in the same area basically. And it looks like EQN is going the same route.
F2P is trash too. It's a great way for corporations to increase profits. It's great for high player turnover. It's great for players who'd rather pay their way thru games than actually play and achieve. It's terrible for players (terrible for guilds, terrible for community) since the player continuity isn't there, the player investment isn't there, the overall quality and behavior of players is worse, pay 2 win and paying cash for game currency (facilitated cheating) demean the game and achievement in the game. The fact that EQN is being designed as F2P just means it's a steaming pile before it's even released.
IMO, SOE has never done well with MMORPGs. They bought EQ and kept the same formula rolling which doesn't take rocket science. They've bought and managed a lot of crappy MMORPGs. They have never actually created a true winner and continually make questionable decisions or mistakes. EQ2 for ex had so much potential but never quite hit it - how do you fail so badly to build on the godfather of the genre? EQ2 wasn't AC > AC2 bad but it didn't take the EverQuest franchise to new heights either. And IMO, the direction they're taking EQNext is the absolute wrong one. May end up being an ok game, but it won't be a good MMORPG the way it's going (no F2P can ever be good, period, it's a crap business model for quality MMORPGing), and thus far it seems like an insult to the EverQuest name.
I think the thing about EQN that sickens me the most is that the so-called veteran devs who "love" MMORPGs are making EQN into a dumb as hell console arcade game that will be nothing like a classic MMORPG and nothing like anything EverQuest. And they think this is a good idea or what people want. I've known and do know a lot of MMORPG vets and I assure you this is not what any of us want - not even remotely close.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
No, what sparked my backlash was the fact that they went with a limited action bar system, with each class only having 4 skills to use besides weapon skills.
also the game is action combat.
No talk on how PvP is handled, nor if the game has serious raiding content, not talking about zerg group content like in GW2 here which people like to call raiding.
Also no trinity.
Bad art style. Not a problem with cartoon like art style, but this looks worst than WoW's art style. Comparing WoW's Human to EQN Humans, I rather have WoW's model if I had a choice.
300 skills, where most of them have simillar effects but different cooldowns
Holy trinity
So they basically want Everquest 1 with upgraded graphics
And then there are the "true sandbox" people. Even though the land and the buildings can be shaped by players, and the quests are created by the emergent AI and procedural generated landscape, so you cant go look up what to do much of the time.
Baiscally they want us to go back in time 15 years with everything.
Well, yeah, 15 years ago this genre was good.
Everything since 2008 has moved along a certain mentality around our game experience. It has picked up steam and has created ever increasing trash for MMO.s And this one is coming in with all the same rehashed promises with new gimmicky technology (Since when was an awesome MMORPG experience centered around BREAK!!! SMASH!!! DESTROY!!! every object in our path?) It's not Minecraft. It's break stuff that heals over time. BFD! You remember Stress.exe? how fun it was? Well, for a few minutes anyway.
This game is shaping up to be a huge Cash Grab where SoE makes a killing before the game even releases. It doesn't even matter if it's good or bad, they've already funded their next project before EQN ever launches.
300 skills, where most of them have simillar effects but different cooldowns
Holy trinity
So they basically want Everquest 1 with upgraded graphics
And then there are the "true sandbox" people. Even though the land and the buildings can be shaped by players, and the quests are created by the emergent AI and procedural generated landscape, so you cant go look up what to do much of the time.
Baiscally they want us to go back in time 15 years with everything.
Well, yeah, 15 years ago this genre was good.
Everything since 2008 has moved along a certain mentality around our game experience. It has picked up steam and has created ever increasing trash for MMO.s And this one is coming in with all the same rehashed promises with new gimmicky technology (Since when was an awesome MMORPG experience centered around BREAK!!! SMASH!!! DESTROY!!! every object in our path?) It's not Minecraft. It's break stuff that heals over time. BFD! You remember Stress.exe? how fun it was? Well, for a few minutes anyway.
This game is shaping up to be a huge Cash Grab where SoE makes a killing before the game even releases. It doesn't even matter if it's good or bad, they've already funded their next project before EQN ever launches.
yeah hundreds years ago mans where mans, using swords and axes. now all mans are pussies with guns.
see what i did?
World dont revolve around you. its evolve.
if u want old school mmorpg, u need make it u self.
300 skills, where most of them have simillar effects but different cooldowns
Holy trinity
So they basically want Everquest 1 with upgraded graphics
And then there are the "true sandbox" people. Even though the land and the buildings can be shaped by players, and the quests are created by the emergent AI and procedural generated landscape, so you cant go look up what to do much of the time.
Baiscally they want us to go back in time 15 years with everything.
Well, yeah, 15 years ago this genre was good.
Everything since 2008 has moved along a certain mentality around our game experience. It has picked up steam and has created ever increasing trash for MMO.s And this one is coming in with all the same rehashed promises with new gimmicky technology (Since when was an awesome MMORPG experience centered around BREAK!!! SMASH!!! DESTROY!!! every object in our path?) It's not Minecraft. It's break stuff that heals over time. BFD! You remember Stress.exe? how fun it was? Well, for a few minutes anyway.
This game is shaping up to be a huge Cash Grab where SoE makes a killing before the game even releases. It doesn't even matter if it's good or bad, they've already funded their next project before EQN ever launches.
yeah hundreds years ago mans where mans, using swords and axes. now all mans are pussies with guns.
see what i did?
World dont revolve around you. its evolve.
if u want old school mmorpg, u need make it u self.
Landmark has nothing to do with it OP. The backlash resulted from the disappointment of hard core EQ fans finding out that EQN was not an evolution of the game they have known and loved for years but rather an entirely new game that goes in completely opposite directions than they are used to playing. They are left feeling disenfranchised. In a way it is the end of their game, just like SWG, and it has produced some refugees. It is what it is. But to be honest, its a pretty small backlash in the face of a lot of optimism from the MMORPG market at large.
Landmark has nothing to do with it OP. The backlash resulted from the disappointment of hard core EQ fans finding out that EQN was not an evolution of the game they have known and loved for years but rather an entirely new game that goes in completely opposite directions than they are used to playing. They are left feeling disenfranchised. In a way it is the end of their game, just like SWG, and it has produced some refugees. It is what it is. But to be honest, its a pretty small backlash in the face of a lot of optimism from the MMORPG market at large.
This is NOT like the SWG debacle. Not even close. EQ 1 still exists, you can even gather a bunch of like-minded players and experience EQ1 almost as it was ten, twelve years ago. Camp to your hearts content.
SWG, on the other hand, was a disaster with hundreds of thousands of subscription casualties.
Speculation, odd preconceptions and knee-jerk reaction to change caused the backlash. That's why it only exists in very tiny pockets of jaded bitter vets. The rest of the world is happy about EQN and looking forward to it.
I didn't vote because the poll is based on the false premises that 1) there was only news about Landmark and that 2) landmark is undesirable.
Hmm good thing we have a mind reader that knows what everyone in the world is thinking. Maybe people shouldn't guess at what is going on in peoples heads and just use some logic. I haven't seen much on the topic of Landmark being a bad thing, not enough to have some kind of backlash. The cartoon look and combat (action vs trinity) seems to be the 2 biggest things people are harping on. I'm not happy with that either, but not a deal-breaker if they can implement the world content and other grails like they said.
Since only a few chosen user landmark creations will be in game, I don't see why anyone would have issue with that and haven't seen many threads about it, or any heated arguments when it was brought up. It's a separate entity and will have limited impact on game.
That being said, people seems to be against it because it wasn't what they wanted or didn't stay close enough to what they wanted in an EQ game. And let's face it, aside from the name and some mention of the lore, it is far away from a "jaded bitter vet" would've expected from a game with EQ in the title, but the art design and combat decisions have caused more anti-EQN sentiment than any others ive seen.
Landmark has nothing to do with it OP. The backlash resulted from the disappointment of hard core EQ fans finding out that EQN was not an evolution of the game they have known and loved for years but rather an entirely new game that goes in completely opposite directions than they are used to playing. They are left feeling disenfranchised. In a way it is the end of their game, just like SWG, and it has produced some refugees. It is what it is. But to be honest, its a pretty small backlash in the face of a lot of optimism from the MMORPG market at large.
This. The only people that "like" it are the people that never played EQ before and are to bad to actually raid. All the real EQ vets are straight hating on this casual friendly pos of a EQ evolution. For everyone saying they havn't said anything about the game yet are the people i'm taklking about. Please see dudes sig above about no trinity, no raiding, no classes, no leveling is basically the core mechanics of the game.
Your poll basically allows me to share your opinion or share your opinion. Where is "I think the backlash was generated by children throwing fits and haters hating to hate." Seriously, everything they have said about the game leaves nothing to hate REALLY... people are just making assumptions about the gaps and then either raging or or against the title. Landmark will guarantee we have a scope and scale of diversity in the game that no other MMO can touch... but BOO EFFING HOO you'll have to wait a few more months while they are fleshing out that destructible seamless voxel world for you. Learn some patience, settle your ponies down, and learn how to make polls. Answer this poll:A. Reicht is better than everyone because of his hair and eyes.B. Reicht is better than everyone for reasons that do not include his hair and eyes. Pick one.
Lol this poll is trolling if I've ever seen it totally agree
It seems to me that they went for being new for the sake of being new, they alienated a good section of the eq fanbase by their murdering of eq lore, a few differences is ok but this isn't eq lore anymore its totally different
i dont like the art nagafen looks far to frilly and not badass enough i don't like the armor look with the chunky armor i dont like that orcs look like they're mongolian not that i dislike mongolians,. i shudder to think what trolls and the other unseen races will look like if they even make launch
i don't think lvlesssness will work as good as a lvl based system and i dont think that spawns not always being in one spot will work great, sounds like there wont be named to me, when will we socialize if we r moving all the time
BUT i WILL give it a try both landmark and eqn i think landmark sounds preety damned cool for what it is
so the lore guys got upset on the lore being way different, the themeparkers didn't get camping, the pvpers are mystified and upset that apparently we wont be forced into pvp in eqn and we have little info on pvp at all
people are upset and confused about multi classing, i lean to upset but i think it might be cool if its done right as long as everyone isn't turned into jack of all trades
and above all xxxx person is upset because they didnt get exactly what they where hoping for
if settle for some of the things i wanted but i got none except maybe raiding we don't know yet i think
i think the voxel world could be fantastic, the world is very cool looking what very little we've seen
There is a backlash?? C'mon. This poll is a troll. The only complaints I've been hearing are regarding the graphics., lack of leveling, no EQ 'feel', no trinity, and no end game.
This. The only people that "like" it are the people that never played EQ before and are to bad to actually raid. All the real EQ vets are straight hating on this casual friendly pos of a EQ evolution. For everyone saying they havn't said anything about the game yet are the people i'm taklking about. Please see dudes sig above about no trinity, no raiding, no classes, no leveling is basically the core mechanics of the game.
Nope. The problem with generalization is that they are almost always wrong. I played heavily from 2001 thru 2005, and then off and on till this very day. I was a guild officer. We raided.
And yes, I like were EQN is going. Shoots your theory down.
Comments
Dunno how many player minecraft have but least they have over 7 million facebook fan.
if EQN get half thouse minecraft fans tpo play game and others half from mmorpgs, game gonna be huge succees.
No. IMO Landmark has a lot of potential. Probably the ONLY thing that isn't 100% suck about Neverwinter is foundry. Landmark could be Foundry on steroids. I don't like the cash angle of it though. Make content because you love to, not to make a few pennies in an MMORPG. It's just a way for SOE to take a cut off of your creativity anyways. Lame.
For me it's more the fact that 8 skills per character isn't an MMORPG - it's dumbed down beyond infantile. It makes the panda look deep and compelling. It's the action/arcade/console feel. It's console-first design mentality that doesn't suit PC games OR MMORPGs. It's zero lack of mention of group-based PvE. It's making a big deal out of destructible content - which is a neato effect - but which is NOT something I'd consider 1 of 4 design pillars for a good MMORPG. Please.
A lot of people were hoping for something that was more of a return to real MMORPGs - you know, the early games that formed the genre. Grouping, challenge, strong community vs the more and more solo ez-mode get epics just for showing up style that gets worse all the time. MMORPGs are getting further and further away from the original style and are sucking more and more because of it.
No sub-based MMORPG since WoW has managed to continue with a sub. They're all F2P garbage now. It isn't because people won't pay subs. It's because when you make so-called MMORPGs that are 95% solo ez-mode, don't create enough group content, and don't create enough challenge, your game is ultimately boring, even to mouth breathers who can barely login without mommies help and can only solo rats without crying that the game is too hard.
Boring games aren't worth a sub. Games that are 95% solo and you can finish that solo content in a month or less and that lack endgame to keep people busy for more than a month or two aren't worth a sub. Maybe, just maybe, someone should create a game for real MMORPG players where it takes longer than 20 minutes to level to cap and where you need to group most of the time, and that has challenge at all levels instead of easily avoidable challenge and see how that goes. People can either adapt, rise, learn, grow, and become real MMORPG players or just not play. Would it matter if they just don't play when most of them don't really play as it is? These "casuals" devs keep trying to design for just mow thru the solo easy mode content that takes years and millions to create in a few days and move on. WHY develop for that audience? Why not develop for the type of people who helped establish the genre and who will stick with a worthy game for years?
Boring games do not keep people's attention. Games with no challenge aren't good games. The other thing is that real MMORPG players group and want to play a game for years on end. Fast food MMORPGs end up not working for ANY audience because they're like single player games - finish content and done.
I personally want the MM to return to MMORPG. I don't consider a bunch of soloists sharing a game world, littering chat with stupidity, and barely interacting to be an MMORPG. It's massively SINGLE player online and it's boring as hell in every way. GW2 is THE game for confused people who want to solo in so called MMORPGs and it's a very boring game. GW2 has some interesting ideas (although when you consider jumping puzzles to be the best content in the game that's pretty telling) but they end up getting pounded into the ground thru merciless repetition. TESO is going to be the same trash with a different wrapper - weak skyrm with lots of people in the same area basically. And it looks like EQN is going the same route.
F2P is trash too. It's a great way for corporations to increase profits. It's great for high player turnover. It's great for players who'd rather pay their way thru games than actually play and achieve. It's terrible for players (terrible for guilds, terrible for community) since the player continuity isn't there, the player investment isn't there, the overall quality and behavior of players is worse, pay 2 win and paying cash for game currency (facilitated cheating) demean the game and achievement in the game. The fact that EQN is being designed as F2P just means it's a steaming pile before it's even released.
IMO, SOE has never done well with MMORPGs. They bought EQ and kept the same formula rolling which doesn't take rocket science. They've bought and managed a lot of crappy MMORPGs. They have never actually created a true winner and continually make questionable decisions or mistakes. EQ2 for ex had so much potential but never quite hit it - how do you fail so badly to build on the godfather of the genre? EQ2 wasn't AC > AC2 bad but it didn't take the EverQuest franchise to new heights either. And IMO, the direction they're taking EQNext is the absolute wrong one. May end up being an ok game, but it won't be a good MMORPG the way it's going (no F2P can ever be good, period, it's a crap business model for quality MMORPGing), and thus far it seems like an insult to the EverQuest name.
I think the thing about EQN that sickens me the most is that the so-called veteran devs who "love" MMORPGs are making EQN into a dumb as hell console arcade game that will be nothing like a classic MMORPG and nothing like anything EverQuest. And they think this is a good idea or what people want. I've known and do know a lot of MMORPG vets and I assure you this is not what any of us want - not even remotely close.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
No, what sparked my backlash was the fact that they went with a limited action bar system, with each class only having 4 skills to use besides weapon skills.
also the game is action combat.
No talk on how PvP is handled, nor if the game has serious raiding content, not talking about zerg group content like in GW2 here which people like to call raiding.
Also no trinity.
Bad art style. Not a problem with cartoon like art style, but this looks worst than WoW's art style. Comparing WoW's Human to EQN Humans, I rather have WoW's model if I had a choice.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
replace that Face with GW2's Charr and you have a deal.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Well, yeah, 15 years ago this genre was good.
Everything since 2008 has moved along a certain mentality around our game experience. It has picked up steam and has created ever increasing trash for MMO.s And this one is coming in with all the same rehashed promises with new gimmicky technology (Since when was an awesome MMORPG experience centered around BREAK!!! SMASH!!! DESTROY!!! every object in our path?) It's not Minecraft. It's break stuff that heals over time. BFD! You remember Stress.exe? how fun it was? Well, for a few minutes anyway.
This game is shaping up to be a huge Cash Grab where SoE makes a killing before the game even releases. It doesn't even matter if it's good or bad, they've already funded their next project before EQN ever launches.
yeah hundreds years ago mans where mans, using swords and axes. now all mans are pussies with guns.
see what i did?
World dont revolve around you. its evolve.
if u want old school mmorpg, u need make it u self.
Yes, you came up with a very, very bad analogy.
Looks like my original post was removed... sorry admin/everyone!
I did not vote on your poll. The was no option for " I like the game - no backlash felt".
"Youre in our world now!"
GW2 combat... case rested. /move along
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Landmark has nothing to do with it OP. The backlash resulted from the disappointment of hard core EQ fans finding out that EQN was not an evolution of the game they have known and loved for years but rather an entirely new game that goes in completely opposite directions than they are used to playing. They are left feeling disenfranchised. In a way it is the end of their game, just like SWG, and it has produced some refugees. It is what it is. But to be honest, its a pretty small backlash in the face of a lot of optimism from the MMORPG market at large.
This is NOT like the SWG debacle. Not even close. EQ 1 still exists, you can even gather a bunch of like-minded players and experience EQ1 almost as it was ten, twelve years ago. Camp to your hearts content.
SWG, on the other hand, was a disaster with hundreds of thousands of subscription casualties.
The two simply cannot be compared.
Hmm good thing we have a mind reader that knows what everyone in the world is thinking. Maybe people shouldn't guess at what is going on in peoples heads and just use some logic. I haven't seen much on the topic of Landmark being a bad thing, not enough to have some kind of backlash. The cartoon look and combat (action vs trinity) seems to be the 2 biggest things people are harping on. I'm not happy with that either, but not a deal-breaker if they can implement the world content and other grails like they said.
Since only a few chosen user landmark creations will be in game, I don't see why anyone would have issue with that and haven't seen many threads about it, or any heated arguments when it was brought up. It's a separate entity and will have limited impact on game.
That being said, people seems to be against it because it wasn't what they wanted or didn't stay close enough to what they wanted in an EQ game. And let's face it, aside from the name and some mention of the lore, it is far away from a "jaded bitter vet" would've expected from a game with EQ in the title, but the art design and combat decisions have caused more anti-EQN sentiment than any others ive seen.
This. The only people that "like" it are the people that never played EQ before and are to bad to actually raid. All the real EQ vets are straight hating on this casual friendly pos of a EQ evolution. For everyone saying they havn't said anything about the game yet are the people i'm taklking about. Please see dudes sig above about no trinity, no raiding, no classes, no leveling is basically the core mechanics of the game.
Wasnt it 7 skills at gm? but you could put all of your spells out on the screen
Lol this poll is trolling if I've ever seen it totally agreeLol awful poll. Yeah not going to play along with this POS thread.
It seems to me that they went for being new for the sake of being new, they alienated a good section of the eq fanbase by their murdering of eq lore, a few differences is ok but this isn't eq lore anymore its totally different
i dont like the art nagafen looks far to frilly and not badass enough i don't like the armor look with the chunky armor i dont like that orcs look like they're mongolian not that i dislike mongolians,. i shudder to think what trolls and the other unseen races will look like if they even make launch
i don't think lvlesssness will work as good as a lvl based system and i dont think that spawns not always being in one spot will work great, sounds like there wont be named to me, when will we socialize if we r moving all the time
BUT i WILL give it a try both landmark and eqn i think landmark sounds preety damned cool for what it is
so the lore guys got upset on the lore being way different, the themeparkers didn't get camping, the pvpers are mystified and upset that apparently we wont be forced into pvp in eqn and we have little info on pvp at all
people are upset and confused about multi classing, i lean to upset but i think it might be cool if its done right as long as everyone isn't turned into jack of all trades
and above all xxxx person is upset because they didnt get exactly what they where hoping for
if settle for some of the things i wanted but i got none except maybe raiding we don't know yet i think
i think the voxel world could be fantastic, the world is very cool looking what very little we've seen
There is a backlash?? C'mon. This poll is a troll. The only complaints I've been hearing are regarding the graphics., lack of leveling, no EQ 'feel', no trinity, and no end game.
Nope. The problem with generalization is that they are almost always wrong. I played heavily from 2001 thru 2005, and then off and on till this very day. I was a guild officer. We raided.
And yes, I like were EQN is going. Shoots your theory down.