If the game ever finds "success" by your definition your whole argument would be invalid as the game would be a success and worthy of emulation.
I.. what? How does that invalidates my argument in any way. That is exactly the issue, if the game is "successful" in its current state, it would be considered worthy of emulation, which is exactly what I am afraid of, SV practices established by new devs. Not that major companies would do it, but the new aspiring indies.
I'm not sure how to explain clearly how if something is successful then it obviously was made with some degree of quality as defined by its customers. I'm not sure how such a product should be an issue for anyone. My point was you have set up a nearly impossible situation of which to be afraid to validate your point. You claim you fear the game being both horrid and successful and as such indie developers will make horrible successful games and we'll be flooded with horrible games.
That is a hypothetical scenario that is not only far reaching but implausible. Through some sort of butterfly effect the game could usher in a dreadful new world order, but i'm not exactly going to claim that the game shouldn't be advocated because of that possibility.
It is all irrelevant though as nobody is claiming Mortal Online is ever going to find the sort of success you speak of in its current state. If you feel it could i'd be willing to argue against that.
If the game ever finds "success" by your definition your whole argument would be invalid as the game would be a success and worthy of emulation.
I.. what? How does that invalidates my argument in any way. That is exactly the issue, if the game is "successful" in its current state, it would be considered worthy of emulation, which is exactly what I am afraid of, SV practices established by new devs. Not that major companies would do it, but the new aspiring indies.
I'm not sure how to explain clearly how if something is successful then it obviously was made with some degree of quality as defined by its customers. I'm not sure how such a product should be an issue for anyone.
And I am not sure how to explain that success does not mean quality. McDonalds is popular, yet the food is unhealthy. Stuff made in China are popular, yet quality is shit. Nigeria scams are pretty successful and are emulated a lot. Do we need more of them? Hell no, and I am pretty sure they are an issue for quite a few. You create some hypothetical scenarios where there is only one outcome and only one point of view to support your illogical arguments. I don't want MO to be an example for other indie devs to follow, there is nothing illogical or hypothetical about it.
And I am not sure how to explain that success does not mean quality. McDonalds is popular, yet the food is unhealthy. Stuff made in China are popular, yet quality is shit. Nigeria scams are pretty successful and are emulated a lot. Do we need more of them? Hell no, and I am pretty sure they are an issue for quite a few. You create some hypothetical scenarios where there is only one outcome and only one point of view to support your illogical arguments. I don't want MO to be an example for other indie devs to follow, there is nothing illogical or hypothetical about it.
It sounds as if it is your definition of Quality that I am in disagreement with.
McDonalds is a leading authority on quality by many of its aspects and definitions. As a college student I have studied several aspects of the company in my courses on the subject of quality.
I'm also unaware of any hypothetical scenario I have created. As for yours, once again, it doesn't really matter what you do or do not want -- Mortal Online is in little to no danger of being emulated or set up as "an example for other indie devs to follow." I don't know why you have some strange fear of this happening but I have not heard any reason why that fear is rational.
Your irrational fears have no bearing on the subject of Mortal Online's Steam Greenlight. I don't say this to offend, but i'm hoping you will think about the subject rationally and maybe in some way realize Mortal Online is not some paragon of popular game design to be emulated and followed by future developers.
To be honest, a large majority of the hard-core MMO playerbase also frequent forums like this one. They already know about MO and they have already tried it and left. Getting a greenlight on steam would only bring in the casual players and they would leave the game in droves.
SV uses a lack of advertising as an excuse but to be honest, steam users have been introduced to the game. It has been listed for steam users to vote on, it is F2P so those same users can go play the game now if they were really interested. The game has been mentioned on just about every gaming website sometime over the last 2 years. SV and you guys that love the game can fantasize that there is some hidden playerbase that has been untapped but the reality is, most people who would be interested in playing MO and staying with it with all the bugs and exploits have already tried it.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
There are haters and there are lovers of Mortal Online. On one side you have the haters who state the age of the game and the number of bugs, the convoluted game mechanics and poor pvp. On the other side, the lovers of the game really enjoy the game mechanics, the style of game works for them and bugs are not a show stopper for them. Two sides of the story and two completely different views.
To me it comes down to what you enjoy. Some really enjoy MO and others don't. This argument will continue until SV close their doors as both sides will never agree.
The statement (which I call the question) which started this forum post has been answered. Mortal Online was given greenlight status in August!
Originally posted by argirop Originally posted by lizardbones If Greenlight is a bad system, why do the people who like MO get so upset when it doesn't get a Greenlight? Why do they argue that MO deserves to get a Greenlight on Steam? Because getting a Greenlight on Steam is a real world indicator of player interest in a game's ideas, if not the game itself. Games like DOTA2 have half a million concurrent players. The most popular MMORPG on Steam has 2,048 concurrent players. It's Star Trek Online btw. The idea that an MMORPG with a tiny audience is going to get a Greenlight on Steam or that it's going to get significant sales on Steam is ludicrous. There isn't anything about MO + Steam that makes sense.
The answer to your question is really simple. MO fans do actually believe that if MO will get greenlit, SV;s incomes will significally raise and those incomes will be used towards games developement which is ridiculous as we speak. At the same time the same individuals fail to comprehend that even if we double or tripple the current playerbase, it will be very hard for MO to keep the new players ingame cause the game itself is in terrible state. And unfortunatelly i really cannot see SV changing its ways nor drawing a new course since the last 3 years they re repeating the same mistakes over and over again. My guess will be that even if MO gets greenlit and suceeds on getting a larger playerbase and ofc higher incomes, those funds will go in the same bottomless pit that all funds went till this moment we re making this discussion. And i m afraid that this bottomless pit hasnt anything to do with MO's developement or hiring professional developers to do the job that amateurs doing as we speak.
If MO got 500 more subscribers, it would be a significant boost to the game. The question is now, since it's gotten a GreenLight, will it get those 500 players, and if it does, will it get them to pay money (it's F2P) and will it actually improve the game? I guess we'll actually get to see whether it happens or not.
I suppose a more interesting question will be whether or not MO starts to change because it does get a significant number of new players, but can't keep them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I was playing MO from the very beginning. Then I left. Then I came back. Then I have left forever.
When I came second time I have found game in worse condition than it was when I left. But they have built Tindrem. And similar things happened to MO all the time. It was sad to watch how their priorities fucked up. Another thing. Game a priory is not a new player’s friendly. And it seems nothing really has been done during those years to change that. Could it be that Henrik Nystrom’s dream that blurry. He was always talking about lack of funds, and spent available funds on nonsense.
About popularity. Maybe, just maybe game already has all players, who really wanted to play it. May be game only can gain new players from those who doesn’t know what is this game about. And for those… nothing attractive there.
I was playing MO from the very beginning. Then I left. Then I came back. Then I have left forever.
When I came second time I have found game in worse condition than it was when I left. But they have built Tindrem. And similar things happened to MO all the time. It was sad to watch how their priorities fucked up. Another thing. Game a priory is not a new player’s friendly. And it seems nothing really has been done during those years to change that. Could it be that Henrik Nystrom’s dream that blurry. He was always talking about lack of funds, and spent available funds on nonsense.
About popularity. Maybe, just maybe game already has all players, who really wanted to play it. May be game only can gain new players from those who doesn’t know what is this game about. And for those… nothing attractive there.
Yup- I agree.
But this is going to be funny and you cannot get entertainment value like this very often. I missed the heyday of this sub-forum (*sad panda face*) but spent literally DAYS reading through old threads- Hearing the lies, broken promises, more broken promises, exagerations, viral marketers, excuses, more excuses, promises, "its going to be revolutionary!!!!", Population booming and "things are better than ever-
Viral marketers vs trolls , forum PVP at its finest. Truth tellers vs pathological liars and everything in between (*hint The pathological liars were the viral marketers) coupled with hilarious Henrick quotes and promises.
Now...All there is , is "dust in the wind". This forum has gone dry because nobody even cares enough about this game to call out the "lies", "promises" and excuses for what they are.
I feel the new green Light release will do wonders for this forum- Bring the entertainment and the laughter back. Already henrick mentioned a "new continent" in his stock market financial report... This is going to make DayZ (or whatever that game was) look like childs play.
I have my popcorn and beer ready for this and now am waiting patiently.
Comments
I'm not sure how to explain clearly how if something is successful then it obviously was made with some degree of quality as defined by its customers. I'm not sure how such a product should be an issue for anyone. My point was you have set up a nearly impossible situation of which to be afraid to validate your point. You claim you fear the game being both horrid and successful and as such indie developers will make horrible successful games and we'll be flooded with horrible games.
That is a hypothetical scenario that is not only far reaching but implausible. Through some sort of butterfly effect the game could usher in a dreadful new world order, but i'm not exactly going to claim that the game shouldn't be advocated because of that possibility.
It is all irrelevant though as nobody is claiming Mortal Online is ever going to find the sort of success you speak of in its current state. If you feel it could i'd be willing to argue against that.
And I am not sure how to explain that success does not mean quality. McDonalds is popular, yet the food is unhealthy. Stuff made in China are popular, yet quality is shit. Nigeria scams are pretty successful and are emulated a lot. Do we need more of them? Hell no, and I am pretty sure they are an issue for quite a few. You create some hypothetical scenarios where there is only one outcome and only one point of view to support your illogical arguments. I don't want MO to be an example for other indie devs to follow, there is nothing illogical or hypothetical about it.
It sounds as if it is your definition of Quality that I am in disagreement with.
McDonalds is a leading authority on quality by many of its aspects and definitions. As a college student I have studied several aspects of the company in my courses on the subject of quality.
I'm also unaware of any hypothetical scenario I have created. As for yours, once again, it doesn't really matter what you do or do not want -- Mortal Online is in little to no danger of being emulated or set up as "an example for other indie devs to follow." I don't know why you have some strange fear of this happening but I have not heard any reason why that fear is rational.
Your irrational fears have no bearing on the subject of Mortal Online's Steam Greenlight. I don't say this to offend, but i'm hoping you will think about the subject rationally and maybe in some way realize Mortal Online is not some paragon of popular game design to be emulated and followed by future developers.
To be honest, a large majority of the hard-core MMO playerbase also frequent forums like this one. They already know about MO and they have already tried it and left. Getting a greenlight on steam would only bring in the casual players and they would leave the game in droves.
SV uses a lack of advertising as an excuse but to be honest, steam users have been introduced to the game. It has been listed for steam users to vote on, it is F2P so those same users can go play the game now if they were really interested. The game has been mentioned on just about every gaming website sometime over the last 2 years. SV and you guys that love the game can fantasize that there is some hidden playerbase that has been untapped but the reality is, most people who would be interested in playing MO and staying with it with all the bugs and exploits have already tried it.
There are haters and there are lovers of Mortal Online. On one side you have the haters who state the age of the game and the number of bugs, the convoluted game mechanics and poor pvp. On the other side, the lovers of the game really enjoy the game mechanics, the style of game works for them and bugs are not a show stopper for them. Two sides of the story and two completely different views.
To me it comes down to what you enjoy. Some really enjoy MO and others don't. This argument will continue until SV close their doors as both sides will never agree.
The statement (which I call the question) which started this forum post has been answered. Mortal Online was given greenlight status in August!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=112802437
Everyone will have a prediction on what will happen next. Only time will tell.
If MO got 500 more subscribers, it would be a significant boost to the game. The question is now, since it's gotten a GreenLight, will it get those 500 players, and if it does, will it get them to pay money (it's F2P) and will it actually improve the game? I guess we'll actually get to see whether it happens or not.
I suppose a more interesting question will be whether or not MO starts to change because it does get a significant number of new players, but can't keep them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I was playing MO from the very beginning. Then I left. Then I came back. Then I have left forever.
When I came second time I have found game in worse condition than it was when I left. But they have built Tindrem. And similar things happened to MO all the time. It was sad to watch how their priorities fucked up. Another thing. Game a priory is not a new player’s friendly. And it seems nothing really has been done during those years to change that. Could it be that Henrik Nystrom’s dream that blurry. He was always talking about lack of funds, and spent available funds on nonsense.
About popularity. Maybe, just maybe game already has all players, who really wanted to play it. May be game only can gain new players from those who doesn’t know what is this game about. And for those… nothing attractive there.
Yup- I agree.
But this is going to be funny and you cannot get entertainment value like this very often. I missed the heyday of this sub-forum (*sad panda face*) but spent literally DAYS reading through old threads- Hearing the lies, broken promises, more broken promises, exagerations, viral marketers, excuses, more excuses, promises, "its going to be revolutionary!!!!", Population booming and "things are better than ever-
Viral marketers vs trolls , forum PVP at its finest. Truth tellers vs pathological liars and everything in between (*hint The pathological liars were the viral marketers) coupled with hilarious Henrick quotes and promises.
Now...All there is , is "dust in the wind". This forum has gone dry because nobody even cares enough about this game to call out the "lies", "promises" and excuses for what they are.
I feel the new green Light release will do wonders for this forum- Bring the entertainment and the laughter back. Already henrick mentioned a "new continent" in his stock market financial report... This is going to make DayZ (or whatever that game was) look like childs play.
I have my popcorn and beer ready for this and now am waiting patiently.