That's not a good focus per se. Heroin has a similar effect: it makes you want to get more.
So do Blondes.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That's not a good focus per se. Heroin has a similar effect: it makes you want to get more.
Good or bad is subjective. A good MMO should at least tickle your addiction. I once heard WoW referred to as "The Widowmaker". As a user it's up to me to control myself. But if an MMO is not in the least bit addicting, I don't think it' a good one.
And Blondes are also subjective. I prefer Reds. Then again, at my age............
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
While MMORPG's should be fun, they should still be MMORPG's, right? If a game design deviates to the point there it is a "fun" single player coop game, then it meets the "fun" standard, but it not really an MMORPG, anymore.
Hamburgers can be good, pizzas can be good, but hamburgers are not pizza's.
Not really. If MMOs are not fun, they should change to something fun, and re-label them.
Many MMOs are already single player co-op game, and only MMO in name only, which sort of prove my point.
In your food example, if no one likes pizzas anymore, shouldn't pizza joints all convert to hamburger joints?
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
nah .. LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
I think the question is wrong. It's like trying to ask what should be for dessert, and once you have the answer, eat only those desserts for the rest of your life.
I think different MMOs should have different focuses, so that there's something everyone likes, and once you get bored with one thing you can try out something different.
This is how I feel too.
For me an MMO should be a world you can immerse yourself into, just like most of you have said. To expand on the quote above: I think a game should be able to appeal to different kinds of playstyles, this is what builds communities and creates a living world. I like to pvp, but I like the fact that in the game there are people that only like to pve, or only craft, or etc. In short, an mmorpg should have depth, which for me are in the details. Mini games are key, they could be as small as a gambling table in a tavern, or as big as arenas in WoW.
While MMORPG's should be fun, they should still be MMORPG's, right? If a game design deviates to the point there it is a "fun" single player coop game, then it meets the "fun" standard, but it not really an MMORPG, anymore.
Hamburgers can be good, pizzas can be good, but hamburgers are not pizza's.
Not really. If MMOs are not fun, they should change to something fun, and re-label them.
Many MMOs are already single player co-op game, and only MMO in name only, which sort of prove my point.
In your food example, if no one likes pizzas anymore, shouldn't pizza joints all convert to hamburger joints?
That's a bad comparison. There is always a market for both.
While MMORPG's should be fun, they should still be MMORPG's, right? If a game design deviates to the point there it is a "fun" single player coop game, then it meets the "fun" standard, but it not really an MMORPG, anymore.
Hamburgers can be good, pizzas can be good, but hamburgers are not pizza's.
Not really. If MMOs are not fun, they should change to something fun, and re-label them.
Many MMOs are already single player co-op game, and only MMO in name only, which sort of prove my point.
In your food example, if no one likes pizzas anymore, shouldn't pizza joints all convert to hamburger joints?
That's a bad comparison. There is always a market for both.
Depends on the demand. The market for text adventure is so small now that it does not really matter. And that market shifted to graphical adventures in the 80s.
What do you all think the focus of an MMORPG should be?
I think the focus of an MMORPG should be adventure. To create adventure, you need unfamiliarity. Adventure comes from finding yourself in an unfamiliar situation and satisfaction comes from overcoming that. Unfortunately, the focus of most recent MMORPGs has been quite the opposite of adventure: familiar game mechanics packaged slightly differently so that nobody has to suffer the confusion of not know what to do or where to go.
The irony is that when asked for their most memorable and exciting game memories, most MMORPG players will cite their first faltering steps in their first MMO. When everything was new and unknown and we didn't possess the intimate knowledge of the secret workings of the genre - then, these games were about adventure and then, these games were exciting. You know what they say about familiarity and contempt. I see no end of contempt for game developers on these boards, and it's not all undeserved.
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
nah .. LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
This is a good point: the trade off between immersion and convenience.
I often wonder what an Old West MMORPG might look like, and think of the transportation. The train ride from East to West (to Dodge) might be long, slow, tedious, but immersive, or it might be click-on-the-train-icon and teleport immediately to Dodge, with zero tedium but sort of a sizable hit to immersion.
Or, it might be something in between. Maybe it takes a little time to get there (Deeprun Tram kind of time), with some small chance of a train robbery or Indian raid event, or even the train breaking down and folks having to scavenge buckets of water to get it going again. And maybe a player or two stands lookout with a WInchester to protect against bandits while folks are working on the train or calming the womenfolk and children to keep them from distracting the NPC engine crew, etc....
I do know that some efforts can be turned into adventure, sort of the glass is half empty or half full, depending upon how folks choose to look at things.
It obviously depends on your audience. I would argue that most players will be bored by a straight, nothing happens, train rides after the first time (the first time, arguable can be fun if it shows your new and interesting scenaries).
Train robbery certainly can be interesting, but it would be a waste to create the experience, but requires the players to sit through many boring train rides to get to it.
1) click on a 'fast travel destination' button (on a map).
2) by chance, a train robbery will happen. If so, you are teleported to an instance where this took place. Afterwards, depending on the success or failure of your actions, you are deposited in your destination, or not.
3) If there is no event, you instantly port to your destination.
Yes, obviously in the end these are entertainment products, but I can find fun in many environments, even ones that were not created with a focus on fun. Sometimes fun is just the backdrop, not the full story. It's like going to a pub for reasons other than to drink. When I log into an MMORPG, I want to have a world open up for me to explore - the fun will come in due time, but first show me around.
I am partial to virtual words or world sims or whatever they can be called.
I want game play to be shaped by the players, supported by the devs. As in; I want the players to be given the freedom and tools to shape how the game is played. Less artificial mechanisms, limiting options for gameplay, and more focus on having the community enforce rules that they decide on.
For instance:
I want to be able to attack an "ally" that is being a jerk.
This will ofcourse allow jerks to attack everyone else first for no cause except greed or to get their rocks off.
But if the players are empowered by the tools in the game, instead of limited, to keep the game "fun", they can band together in PK and PKK guilds and things start to get interesting.
I may have to wait forever to see my ideal game. And it might even be totally devoid of fun, if it was actually made. So I will accept lesser extremes :P
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
nah .. LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
This is a good point: the trade off between immersion and convenience.
It obviously depends on your audience. I would argue that most players will be bored by a straight, nothing happens, train rides after the first time (the first time, arguable can be fun if it shows your new and interesting scenaries).
Train robbery certainly can be interesting, but it would be a waste to create the experience, but requires the players to sit through many boring train rides to get to it.
1) click on a 'fast travel destination' button (on a map).
2) by chance, a train robbery will happen. If so, you are teleported to an instance where this took place. Afterwards, depending on the success or failure of your actions, you are deposited in your destination, or not.
3) If there is no event, you instantly port to your destination.
I agree with the fun comment. It should feel entertaining overall... If you every time you log in all that happens is you get frustrated and pissed off then the game has failed for you.
There have been quite a few MMO's I found fun for different reason (not the same one for each) ... So there really isn't one defining thing from my experience. Other than something you can find that really captivates you in the game.
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
nah .. LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
This is a good point: the trade off between immersion and convenience.
It obviously depends on your audience. I would argue that most players will be bored by a straight, nothing happens, train rides after the first time (the first time, arguable can be fun if it shows your new and interesting scenaries).
Train robbery certainly can be interesting, but it would be a waste to create the experience, but requires the players to sit through many boring train rides to get to it.
1) click on a 'fast travel destination' button (on a map).
2) by chance, a train robbery will happen. If so, you are teleported to an instance where this took place. Afterwards, depending on the success or failure of your actions, you are deposited in your destination, or not.
3) If there is no event, you instantly port to your destination.
2) A small window pop up saying "do you want to play a train robbery scenaro, or ignore it and go to the destination"
3) the game either port you to the destination or the train robber instance accordingly.
Good idea.
Only problem I would have is, that I might want to play as a train robber.
Not a problem. It is quite easy to code an instance where you *are* the robber. In fact, it is possible to make either a pve instance (that you are the robber, with NPC "marshals") or a pvp one.
All the other stuff i said applies. You click and choose the instance .. and you are a robber without traveling.
I think the question is wrong. It's like trying to ask what should be for dessert, and once you have the answer, eat only those desserts for the rest of your life.
I think different MMOs should have different focuses, so that there's something everyone likes, and once you get bored with one thing you can try out something different.
Actually there are many different kinds of desserts that all fall under the category of dessert, but everyone knows that when you call a traditionally prepared porterhouse "dessert" you're just being silly. Likewise when you call a hot beef sundae dessert, you are outright lying.
There can be as much variety in an MMORPG as there can be in anything else with a focus, such as an automobile, or a house, or even beer. The "RP" in the term gives it some specifics however that "I believe" should separate it from just an MMOG (which there is nothing wrong with). I am just asking everyone's opinion on what they think those specifics should be.
Now if you all don't mind eating hot beef sundae's when you thought you were getting a caramel, vanilla, and strawberry sundae, or a unicycle when you paid for a car, that's all good. Me though, I'd rather get what I paid for, and the only way to do that, in my mind, is to have solid definitions for what things really are.
Anything else and we are just babbling, literally and biblically.
Comments
Fun.
The focus should be on fun.
Oderint, dum metuant.
That's not a good focus per se. Heroin has a similar effect: it makes you want to get more.
So do Blondes.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Good or bad is subjective. A good MMO should at least tickle your addiction. I once heard WoW referred to as "The Widowmaker". As a user it's up to me to control myself. But if an MMO is not in the least bit addicting, I don't think it' a good one.
And Blondes are also subjective. I prefer Reds. Then again, at my age............
Meh, I prefer Red-heads, but then I have niche tastes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
what he said...
Different MMOs focus on different thing.
The whole industry does not need ONE focus.
The first focus of any mmo should be immersion, most important thing when making a mmo is making players feel like they are actually a part of that world.
Not really. If MMOs are not fun, they should change to something fun, and re-label them.
Many MMOs are already single player co-op game, and only MMO in name only, which sort of prove my point.
In your food example, if no one likes pizzas anymore, shouldn't pizza joints all convert to hamburger joints?
nah .. LFD is not immersive but very popular. Why? Because many players value convenience and good "gameplay" over immersion.
sigh - agree
EQ2 fan sites
exploration is my favorite thing in mmos
EQ2 fan sites
This is how I feel too.
For me an MMO should be a world you can immerse yourself into, just like most of you have said. To expand on the quote above: I think a game should be able to appeal to different kinds of playstyles, this is what builds communities and creates a living world. I like to pvp, but I like the fact that in the game there are people that only like to pve, or only craft, or etc. In short, an mmorpg should have depth, which for me are in the details. Mini games are key, they could be as small as a gambling table in a tavern, or as big as arenas in WoW.
That's a bad comparison. There is always a market for both.
Fun is the only universal answer.
After that, the focus can be anything. That is what differentiates each MMO and allows us to pick and choose.
Depends on the demand. The market for text adventure is so small now that it does not really matter. And that market shifted to graphical adventures in the 80s.
The same can happen to MMO, or sub-genre of MMOs.
I think the focus of an MMORPG should be adventure. To create adventure, you need unfamiliarity. Adventure comes from finding yourself in an unfamiliar situation and satisfaction comes from overcoming that. Unfortunately, the focus of most recent MMORPGs has been quite the opposite of adventure: familiar game mechanics packaged slightly differently so that nobody has to suffer the confusion of not know what to do or where to go.
The irony is that when asked for their most memorable and exciting game memories, most MMORPG players will cite their first faltering steps in their first MMO. When everything was new and unknown and we didn't possess the intimate knowledge of the secret workings of the genre - then, these games were about adventure and then, these games were exciting. You know what they say about familiarity and contempt. I see no end of contempt for game developers on these boards, and it's not all undeserved.
It obviously depends on your audience. I would argue that most players will be bored by a straight, nothing happens, train rides after the first time (the first time, arguable can be fun if it shows your new and interesting scenaries).
Train robbery certainly can be interesting, but it would be a waste to create the experience, but requires the players to sit through many boring train rides to get to it.
Here is what i would like to see .....
Version #1
1) click on a 'fast travel destination' button (on a map).
2) by chance, a train robbery will happen. If so, you are teleported to an instance where this took place. Afterwards, depending on the success or failure of your actions, you are deposited in your destination, or not.
3) If there is no event, you instantly port to your destination.
Version #2 (for the players who want more control
1) click on a "fast travel destination"
2) A small window pop up saying "do you want to play a train robbery scenaro, or ignore it and go to the destination"
3) the game either port you to the destination or the train robber instance accordingly.
That feels like a challenge
*puts on my stubborn contrarian hat*
Yes, obviously in the end these are entertainment products, but I can find fun in many environments, even ones that were not created with a focus on fun. Sometimes fun is just the backdrop, not the full story. It's like going to a pub for reasons other than to drink. When I log into an MMORPG, I want to have a world open up for me to explore - the fun will come in due time, but first show me around.
I am partial to virtual words or world sims or whatever they can be called.
I want game play to be shaped by the players, supported by the devs. As in; I want the players to be given the freedom and tools to shape how the game is played. Less artificial mechanisms, limiting options for gameplay, and more focus on having the community enforce rules that they decide on.
For instance:
I want to be able to attack an "ally" that is being a jerk.
This will ofcourse allow jerks to attack everyone else first for no cause except greed or to get their rocks off.
But if the players are empowered by the tools in the game, instead of limited, to keep the game "fun", they can band together in PK and PKK guilds and things start to get interesting.
I may have to wait forever to see my ideal game. And it might even be totally devoid of fun, if it was actually made. So I will accept lesser extremes :P
Good idea.
Only problem I would have is, that I might want to play as a train robber.
I agree with the fun comment. It should feel entertaining overall... If you every time you log in all that happens is you get frustrated and pissed off then the game has failed for you.
There have been quite a few MMO's I found fun for different reason (not the same one for each) ... So there really isn't one defining thing from my experience. Other than something you can find that really captivates you in the game.
For me(and yes I'm atypical)
24/7 faction vs faction conflict
thats why I'm still playing DAOC after 11 years.
Not a problem. It is quite easy to code an instance where you *are* the robber. In fact, it is possible to make either a pve instance (that you are the robber, with NPC "marshals") or a pvp one.
All the other stuff i said applies. You click and choose the instance .. and you are a robber without traveling.
Actually there are many different kinds of desserts that all fall under the category of dessert, but everyone knows that when you call a traditionally prepared porterhouse "dessert" you're just being silly. Likewise when you call a hot beef sundae dessert, you are outright lying.
There can be as much variety in an MMORPG as there can be in anything else with a focus, such as an automobile, or a house, or even beer. The "RP" in the term gives it some specifics however that "I believe" should separate it from just an MMOG (which there is nothing wrong with). I am just asking everyone's opinion on what they think those specifics should be.
Now if you all don't mind eating hot beef sundae's when you thought you were getting a caramel, vanilla, and strawberry sundae, or a unicycle when you paid for a car, that's all good. Me though, I'd rather get what I paid for, and the only way to do that, in my mind, is to have solid definitions for what things really are.
Anything else and we are just babbling, literally and biblically.