While I do disagree that classes are 'all the same', I do agree with a lot of the rest. Combat is GW2s weakest point for certain. It becomes very monotonous very quickly. Events as you mention make this a LOT worst where it becomes a "press 1 key and ZZZ" mode. Unfortunately, this even carries onto more complex classes like Mesmer where it just feels so unrewarding and dull. There are games that do have few abilities that just feel more engaging and exciting such as neverwinter which executed far more simplistic combat much better, giving that 'feeling' of impact.
I think its something that even die hard fans of GW2 can acknowledge that the combat isn't one of the strongest aspects (stronger then the story which can be VERY terrible at times, mixed with some good parts). Classes do feel concept wise interesting but unfortunately the gameplay just doesn't cut it out and it just really makes it about 'what concept do you think is the coolest' while executing things with only slight variation.
Sure, again, you don't need complex combat thats heavily skill based, I understand not everyone is hardcore like me, but it just lacks complexity AND it lacks that feeling of doing something, an issue that usually dungeon crawlers even like Diablo 3 as simplistic as it was with what you did just made it feel like I was doing a lot more and things were more meaningful. Its a shame to since if the combat was good, I feel even with an aim most probably wouldn't be into, the game would at least garnish a good amount of attention, even if other areas are typically lack luster a good combat system which is the games main focus would of made up for it, it just falls flat though.
Originally posted by dgarbini
Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos. The combat can be very engaging and tactical. I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them. I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast. So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.
Problem with that, is you can say the same about that with other games as well. I've done it in games like Rift for example, and other games have far more tactical pvp where skill plays more part with action such as Tera (mmo style) or games like Dragon's Nest.
You say you disagree about all the classes being the same, but you don't say why? I find that a little odd, but that might be because at the base of each class, they are all the same.
I guess some people are just determined to let everyone know just how little they understand GW2 combat.
Saying 'every class just focuses DPS' is a VERY clear sign of this. Things like crowd control, area control, mitigation, healing, proper use of stealth, etc. are all very important to the game. There's only 1 aspect of the game where combat is both 'zergy' and faceroll easy', and that's world bosses. As a few have already stated.
If you honestly believe that 5 man dungeons, fractals, sPvP, or WvW is 'zergy, non-tactical' combat, then you're either full of crap or playing the game at an extremely low lvl. Especially considering only 1 of those lets you get a large enough group to be considered 'zergy' (unless we are now calling 5 people a zerg). This issue keeps coming up, in spite of there being many videos out there that proves this to be completely false. I guess some people are more comfortable assuming that 'zerg = skill less', and that 'action combat is less dynamic than sitting in place pressing your DPS / threat / heal macros'.
I'm not even sure it's worth trying to explain to these people anymore, since they seem to have the logic of a brick wall. Just because some people choose to play the game by mashing the 1 key, or making the most boring build in the world. Doesn't mean that A) that's the only build available, it's even the best build you could be using, or C) that no one else actually uses tactics, or skilled gameplay. There's a lot of variety to the playstyles in this game, so I don't see why you would want you're limit yourself to the most limited (i.e. longbow ranger).
I guess some people are just determined to let everyone know just how little they understand GW2 combat.
Saying 'every class just focuses DPS' is a VERY clear sign of this. Things like crowd control, area control, mitigation, healing, proper use of stealth, etc. are all very important to the game. There's only 1 aspect of the game where combat is both 'zergy' and faceroll easy', and that's world bosses. As a few have already stated.
If you honestly believe that 5 man dungeons, fractals, sPvP, or WvW is 'zergy, non-tactical' combat, then you're either full of crap or playing the game at an extremely low lvl. Especially considering only 1 of those lets you get a large enough group to be considered 'zergy' (unless we are now calling 5 people a zerg). This issue keeps coming up, in spite of there being many videos out there that proves this to be completely false. I guess some people are more comfortable assuming that 'zerg = skill less', and that 'action combat is less dynamic than sitting in place pressing your DPS / threat / heal macros'.
I'm not even sure it's worth trying to explain to these people anymore, since they seem to have the logic of a brick wall. Just because some people choose to play the game by mashing the 1 key, or making the most boring build in the world. Doesn't mean that A) that's the only build available, it's even the best build you could be using, or C) that no one else actually uses tactics, or skilled gameplay. There's a lot of variety to the playstyles in this game, so I don't see why you would want you're limit yourself to the most limited (i.e. longbow ranger).
Funny thing. All these HARDCORE gamers don't even know what a Zerg is and that it's impossible for 5 people to be considered a "zerg" or rather "Zerg Rush" or in historical terms a "Blitz". I know what does look like a zerg though, 25+ people all mindlessly attacking a big bad that sounds more like a zerg to me by very definition.
Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.
...
Must be just me
I guess this could be the correct answer. :-) Because - imo - Gw2 has one of the best ever combat systems, most fun and active. Playing less and less Gw2, but for sure not because of combat.
Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.
...
Must be just me
I guess this could be the correct answer. :-) Because - imo - Gw2 has one of the best ever combat systems, most fun and active. Playing less and less Gw2, but for sure not because of combat.
Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.
...
Must be just me
I guess this could be the correct answer. :-) Because - imo - Gw2 has one of the best ever combat systems, most fun and active. Playing less and less Gw2, but for sure not because of combat.
lol...ya think?
Never will all be happy with something. So it is actually always "IMO". :-)) And how good are at company to appeal to audience and how "good" are trolls ... :-)) you get working or not working model of game.
Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.
Tanks/Healers/Control don't actually exist, so everyone ends up being DPS with healing/control/armor side-speccing abilities. This just ends up with everyone being an amalgamation of everything rolled into a DPS class that just spams their 8 hotkeys until whatever it is, is dead.
"World Bosses" in GW2 are a joke, they stand still while flashy "Aimpoints" show you where to attack while the boss throws out scripted event attacks every X amount of HP or after X amount of time has passed, rinse, repease. Every World Boss encounter I fought in was the most boring thing ever. Shiny effects everywhere with 50+ people just spamming all their abilities without a care in the world about adds. Someone goes down, a random stranger comes up and "Rezes" you during combat, continue with hotkey spam. Far too easy, no soul, no thought behind it, just spam spam spam click click click, next target.
Is this REALLY where the industry is going? Wildstar, and now EQ:N?
It seems like we're going backwards, devolving into nothing more than a browser-based action RPG with pretty lights.
Must be just me
another OP which comes from a guy who failed to play the game cause he is not able to think far away than a trinity system so he is not able to respond in more complex situations so s/he zergs ...
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter When you do a world boss on a daily basis with 50+ other people in those other games, we can talk.
How is that relevant (even if it was true)? So having a less than stellar experience is better than nothing? I think I would take nothing over a lackluster zerg / rez fest that gives you no sense of accomplishment.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter When you do a world boss on a daily basis with 50+ other people in those other games, we can talk.
How is that relevant (even if it was true)? So having a less than stellar experience is better than nothing? I think I would take nothing over a lackluster zerg / rez fest that gives you no sense of accomplishment.
Because apples and oranges are different.
We are talking about massive unorganized combat.
How do you quest in those other games?
Solo or duo, I bet.
Compare that with a solo or small Dynamic Event combat and then we can talk.
Raids - GW2 has no raids, so raiding is that way ----->.
Dungeons - are you saying a GW2 dungeon with 5 people (that can't zerg rez) is a zerg?
And by the way the OP seems to be playing a version of the game where he has 8 hotkeys.
My warrior has F1, `(swap weapon), V (dodge), 1-5, 1-5 and 6-0.
My elementalist has a minimum of 1-5,1-5,1-5,1-5, 6-0, F1-F4 and V.
If you don't want to zerg, avoid the World Bosses because they are massive amounts of players vs big boss encounters.
Easy.
Unless the OP is saying GW2 is so full he can't find a place without a zerg.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter When you do a world boss on a daily basis with 50+ other people in those other games, we can talk.
How is that relevant (even if it was true)? So having a less than stellar experience is better than nothing? I think I would take nothing over a lackluster zerg / rez fest that gives you no sense of accomplishment.
Because apples and oranges are different.
We are talking about massive unorganized combat.
How do you quest in those other games?
Solo or duo, I bet.
Compare that with a solo or small Dynamic Event combat and then we can talk.
Raids - GW2 has no raids, so raiding is that way ----->.
Dungeons - are you saying a GW2 dungeon with 5 people (that can't zerg rez) is a zerg?
And by the way the OP seems to be playing a version of the game where he has 8 hotkeys.
My warrior has F1, `(swap weapon), V (dodge), 1-5, 1-5 and 6-0.
My elementalist has a minimum of 1-5,1-5,1-5,1-5, 6-0, F1-F4 and V.
If you don't want to zerg, avoid the World Bosses because they are massive amounts of players vs big boss encounters.
Easy.
Unless the OP is saying GW2 is so full he can't find a place without a zerg.
I believe that was the point of my post.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter When you do a world boss on a daily basis with 50+ other people in those other games, we can talk.
How is that relevant (even if it was true)? So having a less than stellar experience is better than nothing? I think I would take nothing over a lackluster zerg / rez fest that gives you no sense of accomplishment.
Because apples and oranges are different.
We are talking about massive unorganized combat.
How do you quest in those other games?
Solo or duo, I bet.
Compare that with a solo or small Dynamic Event combat and then we can talk.
Raids - GW2 has no raids, so raiding is that way ----->.
Dungeons - are you saying a GW2 dungeon with 5 people (that can't zerg rez) is a zerg?
And by the way the OP seems to be playing a version of the game where he has 8 hotkeys.
My warrior has F1, `(swap weapon), V (dodge), 1-5, 1-5 and 6-0.
My elementalist has a minimum of 1-5,1-5,1-5,1-5, 6-0, F1-F4 and V.
If you don't want to zerg, avoid the World Bosses because they are massive amounts of players vs big boss encounters.
Easy.
Unless the OP is saying GW2 is so full he can't find a place without a zerg.
I believe that was the point of my post.....
Then don't get apples and oranges in the same bag.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.
How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me. The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.
Except that GW2 has roles? I guess it just blows people minds that you don't sit in one spot and faceroll the same buttons over and over again and that you may actually have to switch your strategy on the fly.
But...tactics aren't roles?
And just IMO, rolling to avoid damage doesn't constitute a strategy.
IMO the older tab target, static casting, rotation based combat is super boring. I can't even bring myself to play those MMOs anymore because its such a repetitive system.
As for everyone trying to compare GW2 world boss fights (Which yes are zergy) to WoW like raids/instances fights is apples to oranges. Lets try WoW,Rift, etc. against GW2 dungeons and that would be a more fair comparison....and from my own experience GW2 dungeons are much more difficult than any standard WoW like MMO.
Alot of people actually complain about how hard or "stupid" the dungeons can be in GW2. However, those GW2 dungeons put more emphasis on individuals skill with their class instead of group composition and gear. If you suck or dont know the fights people know almost instantly when they are scraping you off the floor.
Comparing anything against WOW in terms of difficulty is just plain silly. WoW has no difficulty, not even the hardmode raids and achievements (and before you ask, yes i did them all up to the point i stopped playing).
If you want to compare ANYTHING to make a statement wether it is difficult or not, don't include wow in that comparison. In the dictionary next to "easy" is a picture of WoWs raid archivements.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.
How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me. The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.
Except that GW2 has roles? I guess it just blows people minds that you don't sit in one spot and faceroll the same buttons over and over again and that you may actually have to switch your strategy on the fly.
But...tactics aren't roles?
And just IMO, rolling to avoid damage doesn't constitute a strategy.
Who said it was only rolling to avoid damage?
FPS games have more strategy then a lot of these MMO games unfortunately.
IMO the older tab target, static casting, rotation based combat is super boring. I can't even bring myself to play those MMOs anymore because its such a repetitive system.
As for everyone trying to compare GW2 world boss fights (Which yes are zergy) to WoW like raids/instances fights is apples to oranges. Lets try WoW,Rift, etc. against GW2 dungeons and that would be a more fair comparison....and from my own experience GW2 dungeons are much more difficult than any standard WoW like MMO.
Alot of people actually complain about how hard or "stupid" the dungeons can be in GW2. However, those GW2 dungeons put more emphasis on individuals skill with their class instead of group composition and gear. If you suck or dont know the fights people know almost instantly when they are scraping you off the floor.
Pretty much. Those games rely on rotation, in GW2 your rotation doesn't mean much because things change on a instant.
In GW2 if you suck you die. That's pretty much how a dungeon encounter goes in GW2, you can't sit asleep at your computer pressing buttons like a robot and eating chips. You have to react and always be on your toes. If you are bad people will see you dying, you don't need a DPS meter or some other addon to see whose holding the team back, you know it because this person is dead...always. In other games you can literally suck and no one notices it unless they have a addon of course, and even still you could get through the encounter.
Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.
Tanks/Healers/Control don't actually exist, so everyone ends up being DPS with healing/control/armor side-speccing abilities. This just ends up with everyone being an amalgamation of everything rolled into a DPS class that just spams their 8 hotkeys until whatever it is, is dead.
"World Bosses" in GW2 are a joke, they stand still while flashy "Aimpoints" show you where to attack while the boss throws out scripted event attacks every X amount of HP or after X amount of time has passed, rinse, repease. Every World Boss encounter I fought in was the most boring thing ever. Shiny effects everywhere with 50+ people just spamming all their abilities without a care in the world about adds. Someone goes down, a random stranger comes up and "Rezes" you during combat, continue with hotkey spam. Far too easy, no soul, no thought behind it, just spam spam spam click click click, next target.
Is this REALLY where the industry is going? Wildstar, and now EQ:N?
It seems like we're going backwards, devolving into nothing more than a browser-based action RPG with pretty lights.
Must be just me
Why do you care what others want?
If you care what others want over that what you want, something goes really wrong.
In general it is very noble to care for the interest of others, but it becomes a problem if you suffer from it. And clearly you do at the moment.
Big world events in GW2 are underwhelming because it leads to zerging. The best experiences I had in GW2 were small scaled events and PVP. Zergs are just annoying.
Comments
You say you disagree about all the classes being the same, but you don't say why? I find that a little odd, but that might be because at the base of each class, they are all the same.
I guess some people are just determined to let everyone know just how little they understand GW2 combat.
Saying 'every class just focuses DPS' is a VERY clear sign of this. Things like crowd control, area control, mitigation, healing, proper use of stealth, etc. are all very important to the game. There's only 1 aspect of the game where combat is both 'zergy' and faceroll easy', and that's world bosses. As a few have already stated.
If you honestly believe that 5 man dungeons, fractals, sPvP, or WvW is 'zergy, non-tactical' combat, then you're either full of crap or playing the game at an extremely low lvl. Especially considering only 1 of those lets you get a large enough group to be considered 'zergy' (unless we are now calling 5 people a zerg). This issue keeps coming up, in spite of there being many videos out there that proves this to be completely false. I guess some people are more comfortable assuming that 'zerg = skill less', and that 'action combat is less dynamic than sitting in place pressing your DPS / threat / heal macros'.
I'm not even sure it's worth trying to explain to these people anymore, since they seem to have the logic of a brick wall. Just because some people choose to play the game by mashing the 1 key, or making the most boring build in the world. Doesn't mean that A) that's the only build available,
it's even the best build you could be using, or C) that no one else actually uses tactics, or skilled gameplay. There's a lot of variety to the playstyles in this game, so I don't see why you would want you're limit yourself to the most limited (i.e. longbow ranger).
Funny thing. All these HARDCORE gamers don't even know what a Zerg is and that it's impossible for 5 people to be considered a "zerg" or rather "Zerg Rush" or in historical terms a "Blitz". I know what does look like a zerg though, 25+ people all mindlessly attacking a big bad that sounds more like a zerg to me by very definition.
I guess this could be the correct answer. :-) Because - imo - Gw2 has one of the best ever combat systems, most fun and active. Playing less and less Gw2, but for sure not because of combat.
lol...ya think?
Never will all be happy with something. So it is actually always "IMO". :-)) And how good are at company to appeal to audience and how "good" are trolls ... :-)) you get working or not working model of game.
another OP which comes from a guy who failed to play the game cause he is not able to think far away than a trinity system so he is not able to respond in more complex situations so s/he zergs ...
pleas keep posting craps like these : )
When you do a world boss on a daily basis with 50+ other people in those other games, we can talk.
Not bad for a aim spot, hein?
Of course soon we will have posters claiming no one plays GW2 so it must be empty.
Oh never mind, they will be the same saying everything is a zerg.
Meanwhile you can talk how you beat Liadri.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
How is that relevant (even if it was true)? So having a less than stellar experience is better than nothing? I think I would take nothing over a lackluster zerg / rez fest that gives you no sense of accomplishment.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Because apples and oranges are different.
We are talking about massive unorganized combat.
How do you quest in those other games?
Solo or duo, I bet.
Compare that with a solo or small Dynamic Event combat and then we can talk.
Raids - GW2 has no raids, so raiding is that way ----->.
Dungeons - are you saying a GW2 dungeon with 5 people (that can't zerg rez) is a zerg?
And by the way the OP seems to be playing a version of the game where he has 8 hotkeys.
My warrior has F1, `(swap weapon), V (dodge), 1-5, 1-5 and 6-0.
My elementalist has a minimum of 1-5,1-5,1-5,1-5, 6-0, F1-F4 and V.
If you don't want to zerg, avoid the World Bosses because they are massive amounts of players vs big boss encounters.
Easy.
Unless the OP is saying GW2 is so full he can't find a place without a zerg.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I believe that was the point of my post.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Then don't get apples and oranges in the same bag.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
But...tactics aren't roles?
And just IMO, rolling to avoid damage doesn't constitute a strategy.
IMO the older tab target, static casting, rotation based combat is super boring. I can't even bring myself to play those MMOs anymore because its such a repetitive system.
As for everyone trying to compare GW2 world boss fights (Which yes are zergy) to WoW like raids/instances fights is apples to oranges. Lets try WoW,Rift, etc. against GW2 dungeons and that would be a more fair comparison....and from my own experience GW2 dungeons are much more difficult than any standard WoW like MMO.
Alot of people actually complain about how hard or "stupid" the dungeons can be in GW2. However, those GW2 dungeons put more emphasis on individuals skill with their class instead of group composition and gear. If you suck or dont know the fights people know almost instantly when they are scraping you off the floor.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Comparing anything against WOW in terms of difficulty is just plain silly. WoW has no difficulty, not even the hardmode raids and achievements (and before you ask, yes i did them all up to the point i stopped playing).
If you want to compare ANYTHING to make a statement wether it is difficult or not, don't include wow in that comparison. In the dictionary next to "easy" is a picture of WoWs raid archivements.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Who said it was only rolling to avoid damage?
FPS games have more strategy then a lot of these MMO games unfortunately.
Pretty much. Those games rely on rotation, in GW2 your rotation doesn't mean much because things change on a instant.
In GW2 if you suck you die. That's pretty much how a dungeon encounter goes in GW2, you can't sit asleep at your computer pressing buttons like a robot and eating chips. You have to react and always be on your toes. If you are bad people will see you dying, you don't need a DPS meter or some other addon to see whose holding the team back, you know it because this person is dead...always. In other games you can literally suck and no one notices it unless they have a addon of course, and even still you could get through the encounter.
Rolling to avoid damage is a skill.
And professions are the roles.
Sure, all GW2 characters are hybrids that deal damage, but if DPS isn;t a role are you saying hte large majority of other MMORPGs have no roles?
And if the classes aren't roles what is the difference between tank of class A and tank of class B?
Are they the same? Do they play the same?
In GW2 a ranger and a thief play very differently. What about a mesmer and an elementalist?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah...timing is part of skill in any sport or game. Nuff said.
Combat in GW2 in small groups is awesome!!!!
Just in big events, zergs happens....like in every other game......
Why do you care what others want?
If you care what others want over that what you want, something goes really wrong.
In general it is very noble to care for the interest of others, but it becomes a problem if you suffer from it. And clearly you do at the moment.
Ask yourself, what do you want?
And timing when to do an action isn't a skill?
Like timing your attack in dota to get the creep money isn't a skill?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders