Originally posted by Volkon So basically, no matter how you slice the numbers, WoW and GW2 are the two big dogs in the kennel surrounded by packs of yipping chihuahuas.
Yet people still say GW2 is a failure somehow.
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Originally posted by Volkon So basically, no matter how you slice the numbers, WoW and GW2 are the two big dogs in the kennel surrounded by packs of yipping chihuahuas.
its not a big surprise
GW1 was the only other "big dog" after WOW back in 2005
Originally posted by expresso Think Blizzard might disgree. just saying
Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW didn't sell 3 millions within a year..
And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?
Because expansions are additions to an already released game.
Which makes it even more difficult to sell it in huge numbers because it is an expansion. And yet Blizzard does it every time.
It is just very convenient to not count expansion numbers because they make GW2 numbers look bad. I consider every expansion as a game in itself considering the amount of content it adds to already existing game.
Go buy MoP without everything prior and try to play. Expansions are not games.
If you want to argue semantics we can do it all day long. You said expansions are not 'games'. That is the only point i was arguing about in first reply. Yeah expansions are not stand alone games but they are still very much 'games'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by expresso Think Blizzard might disgree. just saying
Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW didn't sell 3 millions within a year..
3.5 million in the first 7-8 months of release http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/21/world-of-warcraft-becomes-1-mmorpg-in-the-world/ now 1.5 million didin't buy a box but it's safe to assume we'll get a number close to if not over 3 million in 9 months. After all 2 million subs today doe snot equal 2 million boxes sold total. My money is still on Blizzard selling more BOXES in 9 months than GW2.
3.5 million sales, remember that the sales from asia are inlcluded in those 3.5 millions. GW2 have over 3 million in west only. Wait till it releases in China.
Oop, that should cause some grapes to sour rapidly.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Expresso, GW2 sold those 3 million games in 5 months. I know its hard for you to admit that something can surpass anything blizzard made. But this time you are wrong.
But... It didn't.
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different -- in large measure because of WoW -- that trying to compare them directly is, frankly, imbecilic. Further, claiming GW2 surpassed Blizzard ignores what its success owes to Blizzard and WoW, and trying to exclude Blizzard expac sales more temporally in line with GW2's release is nothing more, really, than a poor attempt to cook the books.
Personally I think if you want a fair comparison, you'd use D3. Not strictly speaking an MMO, but an online game that shares more than a few MMO features and is much closer to having been sold in the same basic time and market.
Regardless, the whole exercise seems odd and hard to take seriously. The market has changed vastly over the span of a decade or so that MMOs as we know them have exists, making direct comparisons silly. Few companies, including Anet, are given to release exact numbers with any regularity at all -- Blizz being the only one I know of that has with any consistency over a span of years -- making direct comparisons nigh unto impossible. And the careful wording of the claim, rather transparently making every effort to exclude anything that might confound it, seems downright desperate.
Not sure what exactly the point of the claim was, especially as it's so carefully, lawyerly worded as to almost invite ridicule.
Does it also hold the record for game bought and abandoned out of monotony? So the numbers say we all bought in, but what do they say about who stayed for the boredom?
You have to take into account that when WoW was released, there simply were not as many MMO players, or MMO sites like this one and others that help generate publicity.
Also, although gw2 was a fast selling game, I would bet that those that left the game within the first six months also set record numbers. I personally enjoyed gw2 for a few months but after that, it got quite boring, to me at least. Obviously, gw2 has hired this research group to publicize statistics that are completely one sided, in an effort to bolster their player base. Duh. Most large scale games could hire a similar 'research' group to find unique qualities about their particular release, but that does not make those games any better or worse. Welcome to MMO politics.
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different
i agree its not a fair comparison - comparing numbers from WOWs launch 10 years ago
But you can also state that there is much more competition in the MMO market today than there was in 2004. So while we can give WoW a lot of credit for making the genre more popular, we have to also look at the fact that there are a lot more titles because of this and for GW2 to sell the way they have is a feat. But feel free to discount.
Originally posted by cinos Originally posted by DoogiehowserOriginally posted by TygranirOriginally posted by DoogiehowserOriginally posted by InFlamestwoOriginally posted by expressoThink Blizzard might disgree. just saying
Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW didn't sell 3 millions within a year..And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?Expansions are not games. The article is about the fastest selling GAME.Expansions are not games? i guess we learn something new everyday on these forums.He is correct. An expansion typically cannot be played without the base game. It is an extension to an existing game. Not a playable game by itself. Simply put, it's just a larger form of DLC. Which I'm sure you wouldn't consider a full game.
Also, WoW's expansions were sold well after the first nine months of WoW's availability.
I'm sure WoW would have the record for most times people gave money to a company for boxes, and the most boxes sold in the shortest period of time every time a new box was released though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Expresso, GW2 sold those 3 million games in 5 months. I know its hard for you to admit that something can surpass anything blizzard made. But this time you are wrong.
But... It didn't.
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different -- in large measure because of WoW -- that trying to compare them directly is, frankly, imbecilic. Further, claiming GW2 surpassed Blizzard ignores what its success owes to Blizzard and WoW, and trying to exclude Blizzard expac sales more temporally in line with GW2's release is nothing more, really, than a poor attempt to cook the books.
Personally I think if you want a fair comparison, you'd use D3. Not strictly speaking an MMO, but an online game that shares more than a few MMO features and is much closer to having been sold in the same basic time and market.
Regardless, the whole exercise seems odd and hard to take seriously. The market has changed vastly over the span of a decade or so that MMOs as we know them have exists, making direct comparisons silly. Few companies, including Anet, are given to release exact numbers with any regularity at all -- Blizz being the only one I know of that has with any consistency over a span of years -- making direct comparisons nigh unto impossible. And the careful wording of the claim, rather transparently making every effort to exclude anything that might confound it, seems downright desperate.
Not sure what exactly the point of the claim was, especially as it's so carefully, lawyerly worded as to almost invite ridicule.
This a rather good point. GW2, in part owes some of its success, if not a lot of it to WoW. WoW created the MMO market as we know it today, or at least it played the largest role in opening up the market and making vast amounts of people interested in MMORPG's. If we never had a WoW to begin with, GW2 maybe never would have happened, and if it did, we'd likely not be seeing nearly the amount of boxes sold. I'm not trying to downplay GW2's achievement, but they have a lot to be thankful for. I for one, wasted my money on this game, but I know many others enjoy it.
However, one could argue, that WoW had it much easier in the past:
1. EQ, UO, AC, DAOC and SWG had opend the market already.
Many people were interested in playing an MMO.
2. WoW was released exactly at the same time, when highspeed internet became affordable.
Everybody could finally try playing an MMO.
3. WoW was the first casual oriented, well polished MMO with a big brand behind it. And it ran on older PCs.
WoW was everybody's first option.
Now let us talk about GW2:
1. GW2 was released at the same time as TERA, TSW and MoP. Some were still playing SWTOR.
GW2 faced much greater competition than WoW.
2. These days the whole enthusiasm for MMOs is decreasing. After many big disappointments (WAR, VG, etc.) the playerbase is much more critical.
GW2 earned a lot of critique for everything it tries to do differently whereas WoW was praised for almost everything they did then. Directly after the big failure of SWTOR it was almost impossible to win a lot of new players in a short period.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
SWTOR sold 2 million in its 1st month, I think thats more impressive than GW2 selling 3 million in 9 months. But sales don't prove anything other than good marketing.
Originally posted by Sajman01 SWTOR sold 2 million in its 1st month, I think thats more impressive than GW2 selling 3 million in 9 months. But sales don't prove anything other than good marketing.
GW2 sold 2m in first two weeks. Do research.
Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by austriacus
Expresso, GW2 sold those 3 million games in 5 months. I know its hard for you to admit that something can surpass anything blizzard made. But this time you are wrong.
But... It didn't.
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different -- in large measure because of WoW -- that trying to compare them directly is, frankly, imbecilic. Further, claiming GW2 surpassed Blizzard ignores what its success owes to Blizzard and WoW, and trying to exclude Blizzard expac sales more temporally in line with GW2's release is nothing more, really, than a poor attempt to cook the books.
Personally I think if you want a fair comparison, you'd use D3. Not strictly speaking an MMO, but an online game that shares more than a few MMO features and is much closer to having been sold in the same basic time and market.
Regardless, the whole exercise seems odd and hard to take seriously. The market has changed vastly over the span of a decade or so that MMOs as we know them have exists, making direct comparisons silly. Few companies, including Anet, are given to release exact numbers with any regularity at all -- Blizz being the only one I know of that has with any consistency over a span of years -- making direct comparisons nigh unto impossible. And the careful wording of the claim, rather transparently making every effort to exclude anything that might confound it, seems downright desperate.
Not sure what exactly the point of the claim was, especially as it's so carefully, lawyerly worded as to almost invite ridicule.
The statement is "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in History". Just that. Fastest selling. Why the big speech about the changing market and Blizzard stability? No one stated that GW2 is better than WoW, no one said it has more players, no one said it has steady growth, no one said it is even good. So who are you arguing with? Not the author for sure. He only said that it is fastest-selling. And it is true. What part of it was not understandable?
Why the need to argue with a fact? WoW in first few months had less than 2m sales, GW2 got 2m sales in first two weeks. WoW after year had 2.5 mil subs in eu and us, GW2 has 3m sold boxes in eu and us. "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in History" - true.
No one knows how many boxes WoW sold in its first year because no one tracked that stuff for PC MMOs 10 years ago.
So, this is basically "GW2 is fastest selling MMO ....that we can actually prove ....kinda ....we even admit we guessed on things ....hey, atleast its a catchy headline".
Congrats on B2P "free to play all time after" deal attracted a lot of players... I'm sure a good majority not playing anymore but you still got their money... so thus why not use it to advertise. /rolleyes
Good for them I guess... their hype payed off, and being B2P it does make is vastly easier to have big numbers shown even if the active players are a lot less. But hey, statistics right, and who doesn't manipulate data to make it look like they are doing better then they really might be?
ArenaNet has partnered with a market research firm to assess the sales volume of Guild Wars 2. According to DFC Intelligence, Guild Wars 2 is statistically the fastest selling MMO in the genre's history with over three million units sold in the first nine months.
“After triangulating against multiple data sources, it’s clear that Guild Wars 2 is the fastest-selling Western MMO of all time based on the first nine months of availability”, said analyst David Cole of DFC Intelligence. “This puts Guild Wars 2 in an impressive position when they release in China, where we’ve seen similar franchises really take off”.
Guild Wars 2 is expected to experience rapid growth once it releases in China, where the player-base has the potential to exceed that of the West. To bring Guild Wars 2 to China, ArenaNet has partnered with KongZhong Corporation, a leading Chinese provider of digital entertainment services.
ArenaNet also announced a free trial for players looking to experience what millions of others are already enjoying. New players can create an account starting today and participate in a free trial from Fri., Aug. 23(12:01am PDT) through Sun., Aug. 25. (11:59pm PDT). Players can register for free trial accounts here: http://register.guildwars2.com/trial
However, one could argue, that WoW had it much easier in the past:
1. EQ, UO, AC, DAOC and SWG had opend the market already.
Many people were interested in playing an MMO.
2. WoW was released exactly at the same time, when highspeed internet became affordable.
Everybody could finally try playing an MMO.
3. WoW was the first casual oriented, well polished MMO with a big brand behind it. And it ran on older PCs.
WoW was everybody's first option.
Now let us talk about GW2:
1. GW2 was released at the same time as TERA, TSW and MoP. Some were still playing SWTOR.
GW2 faced much greater competition than WoW.
2. These days the whole enthusiasm for MMOs is decreasing. After many big disappointments (WAR, VG, etc.) the playerbase is much more critical.
GW2 earned a lot of critique for everything it tries to do differently whereas WoW was praised for almost everything they did then. Directly after the big failure of SWTOR it was almost impossible to win a lot of new players in a short period.
I don't think you understood the point. WoW did something none of the MMO's before it really did. It made the genre popular. Sure WoW had lots of help, but there is no comparison between the amount of people that were interested or played mmos back then, than there is now. That's what I'm getting at, WoW flooded the market with people interested in MMO's.
To say that it was hard to win a lot of new players after SWTOR is silly because GW2 wasn't released long after SWTOR. I think it might be harder for the upcoming AAA MMO's like wildstar, TESO, EQN, Archeage, etc, because of the failures of both GW2 and SWTOR.
Congrats on B2P "free to play all time after" deal attracted a lot of players... I'm sure a good majority not playing anymore but you still got their money... so thus why not use it to advertise. /rolleyes
Good for them I guess... their hype payed off, and being B2P it does make is vastly easier to have big numbers shown even if the active players are a lot less. But hey, statistics right, and who doesn't manipulate data to make it look like they are doing better then they really might be?
This part is true for me. But with 700 hours played in the first year, I can say I got my money's worth for the first time in a long time with an MMO. And like every other MMO, when they release new stuff, I go back and check it out. /rolleyes
However, one could argue, that WoW had it much easier in the past:
1. EQ, UO, AC, DAOC and SWG had opend the market already.
Many people were interested in playing an MMO.
2. WoW was released exactly at the same time, when highspeed internet became affordable.
Everybody could finally try playing an MMO.
3. WoW was the first casual oriented, well polished MMO with a big brand behind it. And it ran on older PCs.
WoW was everybody's first option.
Now let us talk about GW2:
1. GW2 was released at the same time as TERA, TSW and MoP. Some were still playing SWTOR.
GW2 faced much greater competition than WoW.
2. These days the whole enthusiasm for MMOs is decreasing. After many big disappointments (WAR, VG, etc.) the playerbase is much more critical.
GW2 earned a lot of critique for everything it tries to do differently whereas WoW was praised for almost everything they did then. Directly after the big failure of SWTOR it was almost impossible to win a lot of new players in a short period.
I don't think you understood the point. WoW did something none of the MMO's before it really did. It made the genre popular. Sure WoW had lots of help, but there is no comparison between the amount of people that were interested or played mmos back then, than there is now. That's what I'm getting at, WoW flooded the market with people interested in MMO's.
To say that it was hard to win a lot of new players after SWTOR is silly because GW2 wasn't released long after SWTOR. I think it might be harder for the upcoming AAA MMO's like wildstar, TESO, EQN, Archeage, etc, because of the failures of both GW2 and SWTOR.
I can agree with your POV on the first part. You lost credibility with me when you generalized and claimed GW2 was a failure. Maybe it was for you, but by what criteria of failure would GW2 have accomplished for you to generalize the toughness of a genre because of said failures?
Comments
Yet people still say GW2 is a failure somehow.
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its not a big surprise
GW1 was the only other "big dog" after WOW back in 2005
http://guildwars.com/events/press/releases/
EQ2 fan sites
If you want to argue semantics we can do it all day long. You said expansions are not 'games'. That is the only point i was arguing about in first reply. Yeah expansions are not stand alone games but they are still very much 'games'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
3.5 million sales, remember that the sales from asia are inlcluded in those 3.5 millions. GW2 have over 3 million in west only. Wait till it releases in China.
Oop, that should cause some grapes to sour rapidly.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
But... It didn't.
The market when WoW came out and the market, years later, when GW2 came out are so vastly different -- in large measure because of WoW -- that trying to compare them directly is, frankly, imbecilic. Further, claiming GW2 surpassed Blizzard ignores what its success owes to Blizzard and WoW, and trying to exclude Blizzard expac sales more temporally in line with GW2's release is nothing more, really, than a poor attempt to cook the books.
Personally I think if you want a fair comparison, you'd use D3. Not strictly speaking an MMO, but an online game that shares more than a few MMO features and is much closer to having been sold in the same basic time and market.
Regardless, the whole exercise seems odd and hard to take seriously. The market has changed vastly over the span of a decade or so that MMOs as we know them have exists, making direct comparisons silly. Few companies, including Anet, are given to release exact numbers with any regularity at all -- Blizz being the only one I know of that has with any consistency over a span of years -- making direct comparisons nigh unto impossible. And the careful wording of the claim, rather transparently making every effort to exclude anything that might confound it, seems downright desperate.
Not sure what exactly the point of the claim was, especially as it's so carefully, lawyerly worded as to almost invite ridicule.
i agree its not a fair comparison - comparing numbers from WOWs launch 10 years ago
EQ2 fan sites
If they don't count expansions this is probably how their top 3 list looks:
1) GW2
2) SWTOR
3) Warhammer Online
Seems like great company to be in.
I doubt WoW sold 3 million copies in its first 9 months.
Does it also hold the record for game bought and abandoned out of monotony? So the numbers say we all bought in, but what do they say about who stayed for the boredom?
Possible, as SWTOR sold 2 million in just over a month, if I'm not mistaken.
Now I wonder how many boxes it sold in its first 9 months.
You have to take into account that when WoW was released, there simply were not as many MMO players, or MMO sites like this one and others that help generate publicity.
Also, although gw2 was a fast selling game, I would bet that those that left the game within the first six months also set record numbers. I personally enjoyed gw2 for a few months but after that, it got quite boring, to me at least. Obviously, gw2 has hired this research group to publicize statistics that are completely one sided, in an effort to bolster their player base. Duh. Most large scale games could hire a similar 'research' group to find unique qualities about their particular release, but that does not make those games any better or worse. Welcome to MMO politics.
But you can also state that there is much more competition in the MMO market today than there was in 2004. So while we can give WoW a lot of credit for making the genre more popular, we have to also look at the fact that there are a lot more titles because of this and for GW2 to sell the way they have is a feat. But feel free to discount.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Blizzard, according to blizzard news archive:
4 quater of 2004 - release
1 quater of 2005 - 1.5m subs
Year after release, around 2.5m subs not counting China
Guild Wars 2:
2 million box sales in first two weeks
Currently year after release, over 3m copies sold not counting China since not released there yet
Which one is fastest selling in history?
And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?
Expansions are not games. The article is about the fastest selling GAME.
Expansions are not games? i guess we learn something new everyday on these forums.
He is correct. An expansion typically cannot be played without the base game. It is an extension to an existing game. Not a playable game by itself. Simply put, it's just a larger form of DLC. Which I'm sure you wouldn't consider a full game.
Also, WoW's expansions were sold well after the first nine months of WoW's availability.
I'm sure WoW would have the record for most times people gave money to a company for boxes, and the most boxes sold in the shortest period of time every time a new box was released though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This a rather good point. GW2, in part owes some of its success, if not a lot of it to WoW. WoW created the MMO market as we know it today, or at least it played the largest role in opening up the market and making vast amounts of people interested in MMORPG's. If we never had a WoW to begin with, GW2 maybe never would have happened, and if it did, we'd likely not be seeing nearly the amount of boxes sold. I'm not trying to downplay GW2's achievement, but they have a lot to be thankful for. I for one, wasted my money on this game, but I know many others enjoy it.
However, one could argue, that WoW had it much easier in the past:
1. EQ, UO, AC, DAOC and SWG had opend the market already.
Many people were interested in playing an MMO.
2. WoW was released exactly at the same time, when highspeed internet became affordable.
Everybody could finally try playing an MMO.
3. WoW was the first casual oriented, well polished MMO with a big brand behind it. And it ran on older PCs.
WoW was everybody's first option.
Now let us talk about GW2:
1. GW2 was released at the same time as TERA, TSW and MoP. Some were still playing SWTOR.
GW2 faced much greater competition than WoW.
2. These days the whole enthusiasm for MMOs is decreasing. After many big disappointments (WAR, VG, etc.) the playerbase is much more critical.
GW2 earned a lot of critique for everything it tries to do differently whereas WoW was praised for almost everything they did then. Directly after the big failure of SWTOR it was almost impossible to win a lot of new players in a short period.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
GW2 sold 2m in first two weeks. Do research.
The statement is "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in History". Just that. Fastest selling. Why the big speech about the changing market and Blizzard stability? No one stated that GW2 is better than WoW, no one said it has more players, no one said it has steady growth, no one said it is even good. So who are you arguing with? Not the author for sure. He only said that it is fastest-selling. And it is true. What part of it was not understandable?
Why the need to argue with a fact? WoW in first few months had less than 2m sales, GW2 got 2m sales in first two weeks. WoW after year had 2.5 mil subs in eu and us, GW2 has 3m sold boxes in eu and us. "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in History" - true.
No one knows how many boxes WoW sold in its first year because no one tracked that stuff for PC MMOs 10 years ago.
So, this is basically "GW2 is fastest selling MMO ....that we can actually prove ....kinda ....we even admit we guessed on things ....hey, atleast its a catchy headline".
Congrats on B2P "free to play all time after" deal attracted a lot of players... I'm sure a good majority not playing anymore but you still got their money... so thus why not use it to advertise. /rolleyes
Good for them I guess... their hype payed off, and being B2P it does make is vastly easier to have big numbers shown even if the active players are a lot less. But hey, statistics right, and who doesn't manipulate data to make it look like they are doing better then they really might be?
1. Obvious propaganda, i.e., there's this company called Blizzard Entertainment.
2. GW2 is NOT an mmorpg...it's an E-Sport with a few MMO cosmetic trappings.
3. There should be a video game forum for games like this.
4. If we are comparing video games, then let me add that PC Game - 2012 game Diablo III selling 6.3 million units in its first week
and MMO game - Star Wars: The Old Republic selling two million physical copies in four weeks.
I don't think you understood the point. WoW did something none of the MMO's before it really did. It made the genre popular. Sure WoW had lots of help, but there is no comparison between the amount of people that were interested or played mmos back then, than there is now. That's what I'm getting at, WoW flooded the market with people interested in MMO's.
To say that it was hard to win a lot of new players after SWTOR is silly because GW2 wasn't released long after SWTOR. I think it might be harder for the upcoming AAA MMO's like wildstar, TESO, EQN, Archeage, etc, because of the failures of both GW2 and SWTOR.
This part is true for me. But with 700 hours played in the first year, I can say I got my money's worth for the first time in a long time with an MMO. And like every other MMO, when they release new stuff, I go back and check it out. /rolleyes
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I can agree with your POV on the first part. You lost credibility with me when you generalized and claimed GW2 was a failure. Maybe it was for you, but by what criteria of failure would GW2 have accomplished for you to generalize the toughness of a genre because of said failures?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.