SUBSCRIPTION!!!! Thank you God. That'll knock 75% of the whiny bitches and griefers right out of the equation, leaving much a higher percentage of quality people than you find in most games.
Good move Jeremy.
While I am also happy about the subscription model, you only have to look as far as WoW to see that being a subscription game isn't going to protect you from whiny bitches and griefers.
", those who might say ‘Oh no I’m not going to pay a subscription, I want free-to-play.’ That’s just great because by getting rid of them, we say ‘We get it. You don’t want pay-to-play, that’s fine. Go away’."
SUBSCRIPTION!!!! Thank you God. That'll knock 75% of the whiny bitches and griefers right out of the equation, leaving much a higher percentage of quality people than you find in most games.
Good move Jeremy.
While I am also happy about the subscription model, you only have to look as far as WoW to see that being a subscription game isn't going to protect you from whiny bitches and griefers.
Yup, and they existed LONG before WoW. Quality of players is irrelevant to payment model. All that matters is quality of game.
Some of you guys are making some very big sweeping generalizations.
I hate F2P game too, but I dislike them because of the influence real money has in the game. (Which i why I'll pass on Wild Star at this point)
But as far as the community, one of the best guys I ran with in GW2 came to GW2 from from Runes of Magic. There, He spent nothing. In GW2, he spent nothing. Still managed to work to buy his precursor and then worked to turn it into a legendary. He and his fiance along with half the guild moved on to Rift when it went F2P. AFAIK, they are still there. If I could stomach Rift again, I'd be with them. Some of the best guys you'd want to run with.
I swear, Mr. Murphy, you and your crew fail at proofreading articles. I inevitably find several obvious errors in almost every article I read on this site. Seriously, proofread your work or hire someone to do it. It's super unprofessional. And no, I'm not going to tell you what the errors are unless you pay me.
Some of you guys are making some very big sweeping generalizations.
I hate F2P game too, but I dislike them because of the influence real money has in the game. (Which i why I'll pass on Wild Star at this point)
But as far as the community, one of the best guys I ran with in GW2 came to GW2 from from Runes of Magic. There, He spent nothing. In GW2, he spent nothing. Still managed to work to buy his precursor and then worked to turn it into a legendary. He and his fiance along with half the guild moved on to Rift when it went F2P. AFAIK, they are still there. If I could stomach Rift again, I'd be with them. Some of the best guys you'd want to run with.
I know some players who work on a very limited budget, that does not make them bad players or bad people, indeed a couple of them are some of the best I have ever met. But the F2P model does let in hordes of players who have no interest in the games future, there is no escaping that fact.
Originally posted by Paragus1 A game following their model will not survive under the old classic paid sub model.
don't worry. this is just the high theater prices.
eventually it'll be cheap on DVD (F2P).
they might even have a middle stage (B2P).
this is just the smart way to maximize money milking while simultaneously easing the launch rush (and any potential fallout while the game is in its most vulnerable period).
also gives them a chance to get free publicity and new influxes of players when they
announce the change/s.
has nobody picked up on this pattern yet?
this is all deliberate and planned out in advance with pretty much every MMO (in the last few years)
Some of you guys are making some very big sweeping generalizations.
I hate F2P game too, but I dislike them because of the influence real money has in the game. (Which i why I'll pass on Wild Star at this point)
But as far as the community, one of the best guys I ran with in GW2 came to GW2 from from Runes of Magic. There, He spent nothing. In GW2, he spent nothing. Still managed to work to buy his precursor and then worked to turn it into a legendary. He and his fiance along with half the guild moved on to Rift when it went F2P. AFAIK, they are still there. If I could stomach Rift again, I'd be with them. Some of the best guys you'd want to run with.
You cannot play Runes of Magic without spending money. All the end game play needs significant cash shop spending. So you friends never got very far in ROM.
I actually don't mind freemium games as I can still sub if I like the game. Much prefer Turbine design of freemium over what they did in Rift.
I think all p2p games will be designed with the intention of going freemium not too far in the future once the initial rush is over.
Originally posted by Paragus1 A game following their model will not survive under the old classic paid sub model.
don't worry. this is just the high theater prices.
eventually it'll be cheap on DVD (F2P).
they might even have a middle stage (B2P).
this is just the smart way to maximize money milking while simultaneously easing the launch rush (and any potential fallout while the game is in its most vulnerable period).
also gives them a chance to get free publicity and new influxes of players when they
announce the change/s.
has nobody picked up on this pattern yet?
this is all deliberate and planned out in advance with pretty much every MMO (in the last few years)
Pretty much this. Also, start to really worry if they announce lifetime subs. But hey, those lifetime subbers will be compensated when the game goes f2p after 1-2year with extra cash shop tokens and a shiny title
Interesting. I must say I still don't see the target audience of this game. People who want a WoW-that's-not-WoW? Is there enough of them?
The target audience are people who played Vanilla and Burning Crusade, people who had to manage their mana, who used CC and discussed every trash mob group in heroic dungeons. The kind of players who crave a challenge, not accessibility.
I and my group of friends who have been playing mmo's since EQ and AC have been begging for games to go back to the subscription model. I'll happily pay $15 a month (which is so little for the hours of play you get) to keep the developers happy, fed, and content coming. I'm tired of games with no depth like GW2. I want dungeons like the above posted. I want to spend time figuring out our way through this dungeon. Mmo's these days consist of speed run dungeons.
Wildstar was on the fence for me after the first two stress test events. After hearing that they're going to subscription, it is now on my "will purchase" list. Thank you to Carbine, keep the good work.
For me the main reason not to sub to ANY game is the fact that I hate to be pressured for time. Once I buy something I want to make the most of it and the 30 day limit almost forces me to play whenever I can. I don't want that I prefer to be a casual gamer and maybe play 4 hours a month which with a sub is too expensive. Even the so called CREDD system doesn't take that issue away.
I think this model completely forgets about the casual players which is a shame. Buy to play would have been fine for me. Microtransaction ok too. Even buying game time in hours instead of months would have worked, but I dislike where the seem to be heading.
4 hours a month in an MMO is like saying you get 1 hour of sleep per night. Thats not going to cut it. and you are probably not going to be were you want to be ever in the game. you might be better off playing a pure single player RPG yo.
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
"This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold."
Ummmm, how exactly does this stop market manipulation? This is the exact system many games use and it doesn't stop anyone from bullying the market.
So what if you can only buy the cheapest, or that you don't know who's selling, that's never a concern to players anyways. They don't pay more for an item from a player they like rather than paying the lowest cost from someone they don't.
Whoever has the most money to game the system will simply buy up all the product that is selling for lower than they want to sell for, then place all the items they just purchased right back onto the market at the higher price they set. People will still under cut them, but a dedicated market manipulator doesn't play the game, they just sit there gaming the market. Every time a lower price comes up they buy it as fast as they can, and repost, again and again, until the need to sleep.
Plus entire guilds are dedicated to this type of manipulation and have people working in shifts to ensure their dominance over the market.
I still don't understand the people who bring up WoW everytime a new MMORPG comes out, I guess it's a generational thing, I know EQ/DAOC as the first generation of MMORPGs, and I know WoW as only a marginally updated version of these games, I know WoW is successful due in no small part to millions of dollars spent having Mr.T and countless other loud celebrity endorsements on the glass teat.
MMORPGs did not start with WoW, and thinking it's the great standard because so many people do what the commercials tell them to do and pony up the dollas is referred to as ad populum, something is not right or true merely because a lot of people are convinced it is so.
I'm glad to see they're shying away from the f2p model with WildStar, but I do think their fees are a bit high, both for the initial software and the monthly fee.
I'd love to see a game offer another alternative, "prepaid" gametime, you only lose a day from your subscription if you actually login that day, if this were the case I wouldn't be so apprehensive about monthly subscriptions (which i DO prefer over f2p/p2w) because I feel obligated to play the game extra to get my money's worth, and that kind of takes away from the fun, if I"m playing a particular game when I'm rather in the mood for one of the hundreds of games in my steam library, heh.
I played wildstar and this game isn't as good as all are saying, its' WoW with GW2 combat system... I think that wildstar will repeat SWTOR's fate, the game is fun but not for long, quests are very generic and repetitive, most of you that are waiting for this game will be disappointed
When an MMO announces subscription based type payment it feels like the one percenters start spamming the forums with their disapproval. This is kinda like when a new car, computer or anything comes out and you see people posting negative reviews.. because rarely does someone come on here when they like the product/system.
Anyhow I am just posting to represent the people who do love subscription based MMORPGs. I see the value in continue steady stream of money to aid in keeping the game running smooth and with updates. Also to many people loose their shirts over FTP with a micro transaction system. subscription based also levels the playing field for kids who can't afford all these micro transactions, vs the wealthy.
Not sure I like being able to buy gold... I hope there is a cap of some sort.. would be nice if you could only do it twice a month.
WOW has the perfect model for me, and although I am really bored I don't see any other game with the same model worth playing. I am hoping Wildstar will fill that desire.
But this won't prevent market manipulation. If anything, not having an easy to view system will allow those smarter than the avg gamer be able to manipulate the market more easily. Supply and Demand dictate averages, the "get you item now" price is determined by the seller. Without back log of information, the avg price can be manipulated up and down on any given day. Should be fun.
If you are F2P you are technically "them" anyhow. You are the fluff the game adds in so your dungeons fill up and so that you can que up for stuff. No other purpose to allow freeloaders in your day to day MMOs.
Originally posted by reploidx I give it about a little over a year until we get a "Freemium Hybrid subscription announced" news update. Game looks good, but I never intended to play it even if it was F2P or B2P. Rift had the same stance as this and look where they are.
Exactly... dont forget SWTOR, Age Of Conan..
SW:ToR was doomed from the start tbh, EA were involved :P and AoC caused their own problems, like lack of content for a start..
Interesting. I must say I still don't see the target audience of this game. People who want a WoW-that's-not-WoW? Is there enough of them? Personally, I attribute WoW's decline in subs to people getting tired of the whole model, not the game itself.
I thought they were going to make a sub-free WoW with some nice additional features, but I guess not. Maybe I'm just not interested in the whole "quest to endgame and raid" model and don't understand what the people who are want, but... eh. Right now FFXIV seems to be a better choice for group-focused content, unless you're someone who loves raiding.
Their target audience is true MMO players! They have sandbox features, intriguing PvP, and difficult PvE. I predict a large portion of the playerbase will come from past WoW players, who don't like the casualized nature that game has took.
Comments
While I am also happy about the subscription model, you only have to look as far as WoW to see that being a subscription game isn't going to protect you from whiny bitches and griefers.
they will be getting a 1 year sub from me.
and if updates go in a direction I can stay on board with.. more
Mark Jacobs sums it up the best.
", those who might say ‘Oh no I’m not going to pay a subscription, I want free-to-play.’ That’s just great because by getting rid of them, we say ‘We get it. You don’t want pay-to-play, that’s fine. Go away’."
Yup, and they existed LONG before WoW. Quality of players is irrelevant to payment model. All that matters is quality of game.
Some of you guys are making some very big sweeping generalizations.
I hate F2P game too, but I dislike them because of the influence real money has in the game. (Which i why I'll pass on Wild Star at this point)
But as far as the community, one of the best guys I ran with in GW2 came to GW2 from from Runes of Magic. There, He spent nothing. In GW2, he spent nothing. Still managed to work to buy his precursor and then worked to turn it into a legendary. He and his fiance along with half the guild moved on to Rift when it went F2P. AFAIK, they are still there. If I could stomach Rift again, I'd be with them. Some of the best guys you'd want to run with.
I know some players who work on a very limited budget, that does not make them bad players or bad people, indeed a couple of them are some of the best I have ever met. But the F2P model does let in hordes of players who have no interest in the games future, there is no escaping that fact.
don't worry. this is just the high theater prices.
eventually it'll be cheap on DVD (F2P).
they might even have a middle stage (B2P).
this is just the smart way to maximize money milking while simultaneously easing the launch rush (and any potential fallout while the game is in its most vulnerable period).
also gives them a chance to get free publicity and new influxes of players when they
announce the change/s.
has nobody picked up on this pattern yet?
this is all deliberate and planned out in advance with pretty much every MMO (in the last few years)
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
You cannot play Runes of Magic without spending money. All the end game play needs significant cash shop spending. So you friends never got very far in ROM.
I actually don't mind freemium games as I can still sub if I like the game. Much prefer Turbine design of freemium over what they did in Rift.
I think all p2p games will be designed with the intention of going freemium not too far in the future once the initial rush is over.
Pretty much this. Also, start to really worry if they announce lifetime subs. But hey, those lifetime subbers will be compensated when the game goes f2p after 1-2year with extra cash shop tokens and a shiny title
I and my group of friends who have been playing mmo's since EQ and AC have been begging for games to go back to the subscription model. I'll happily pay $15 a month (which is so little for the hours of play you get) to keep the developers happy, fed, and content coming. I'm tired of games with no depth like GW2. I want dungeons like the above posted. I want to spend time figuring out our way through this dungeon. Mmo's these days consist of speed run dungeons.
Wildstar was on the fence for me after the first two stress test events. After hearing that they're going to subscription, it is now on my "will purchase" list. Thank you to Carbine, keep the good work.
4 hours a month in an MMO is like saying you get 1 hour of sleep per night. Thats not going to cut it. and you are probably not going to be were you want to be ever in the game. you might be better off playing a pure single player RPG yo.
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
"This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold."
Ummmm, how exactly does this stop market manipulation? This is the exact system many games use and it doesn't stop anyone from bullying the market.
So what if you can only buy the cheapest, or that you don't know who's selling, that's never a concern to players anyways. They don't pay more for an item from a player they like rather than paying the lowest cost from someone they don't.
Whoever has the most money to game the system will simply buy up all the product that is selling for lower than they want to sell for, then place all the items they just purchased right back onto the market at the higher price they set. People will still under cut them, but a dedicated market manipulator doesn't play the game, they just sit there gaming the market. Every time a lower price comes up they buy it as fast as they can, and repost, again and again, until the need to sleep.
Plus entire guilds are dedicated to this type of manipulation and have people working in shifts to ensure their dominance over the market.
Don't see this working as intended.
I still don't understand the people who bring up WoW everytime a new MMORPG comes out, I guess it's a generational thing, I know EQ/DAOC as the first generation of MMORPGs, and I know WoW as only a marginally updated version of these games, I know WoW is successful due in no small part to millions of dollars spent having Mr.T and countless other loud celebrity endorsements on the glass teat.
MMORPGs did not start with WoW, and thinking it's the great standard because so many people do what the commercials tell them to do and pony up the dollas is referred to as ad populum, something is not right or true merely because a lot of people are convinced it is so.
I'm glad to see they're shying away from the f2p model with WildStar, but I do think their fees are a bit high, both for the initial software and the monthly fee.
I'd love to see a game offer another alternative, "prepaid" gametime, you only lose a day from your subscription if you actually login that day, if this were the case I wouldn't be so apprehensive about monthly subscriptions (which i DO prefer over f2p/p2w) because I feel obligated to play the game extra to get my money's worth, and that kind of takes away from the fun, if I"m playing a particular game when I'm rather in the mood for one of the hundreds of games in my steam library, heh.
why all are so happy ??
I played wildstar and this game isn't as good as all are saying, its' WoW with GW2 combat system... I think that wildstar will repeat SWTOR's fate, the game is fun but not for long, quests are very generic and repetitive, most of you that are waiting for this game will be disappointed
When an MMO announces subscription based type payment it feels like the one percenters start spamming the forums with their disapproval. This is kinda like when a new car, computer or anything comes out and you see people posting negative reviews.. because rarely does someone come on here when they like the product/system.
Anyhow I am just posting to represent the people who do love subscription based MMORPGs. I see the value in continue steady stream of money to aid in keeping the game running smooth and with updates. Also to many people loose their shirts over FTP with a micro transaction system. subscription based also levels the playing field for kids who can't afford all these micro transactions, vs the wealthy.
Not sure I like being able to buy gold... I hope there is a cap of some sort.. would be nice if you could only do it twice a month.
WOW has the perfect model for me, and although I am really bored I don't see any other game with the same model worth playing. I am hoping Wildstar will fill that desire.
Plex system FTW.
But this won't prevent market manipulation. If anything, not having an easy to view system will allow those smarter than the avg gamer be able to manipulate the market more easily. Supply and Demand dictate averages, the "get you item now" price is determined by the seller. Without back log of information, the avg price can be manipulated up and down on any given day. Should be fun.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
SW:ToR was doomed from the start tbh, EA were involved :P and AoC caused their own problems, like lack of content for a start..
Their target audience is true MMO players! They have sandbox features, intriguing PvP, and difficult PvE. I predict a large portion of the playerbase will come from past WoW players, who don't like the casualized nature that game has took.