Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearley that is what they hope to recreate.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearley that is what they hope to recreate.
They don't want "hardcore" gamers. They want "core" gamers. You must be dense to not realise there is a difference.
And why do they need to make a game for the "majority". Even if the "solo" crowd is the majority there's already enough watered down bore fests out there for them to play. Why wouldn't you make something different.
I don't understand why you're here bashing it. If you don't want to play it then don't. Don't come trashing a game just because it might not be made exactly for you. Go Play WoW or GW.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearley that is what they hope to recreate.
There is a big difference between CORE and HARDCORE. But you said something right, CORE players are not the majority anymore. Probably they count as the 40% of the MMO market.
Having said that...............who cares?
Can't you understand that Sigil is aiming to that 40% of the market? And to be honest they are doing the right thing. Anyone else is trying to appeal the occasional player, so if Sigil do it right, they can get a big slice of that 40% of the market. Call them stupid....................
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearly that is what they hope to recreate.
I have become a soloist since I left EQ, partly due to time constraints and partly due to the fact lately games give no incentive to do otherwise. Does this mean that Vanguard should cater to a soloing playing style because casual is the norm?
Absolutely not. There is always someone willing to spend more time and effort playing a game than someone else. Plain and simple, IMO games lately have catered to a more casual style that fits with the way I play now and personally I find them.....well lacking. Do not get me wrong I still enjoy them and a couple are actually pretty good games, but that feeling that there is something interesting ahead is just not there for me. I will just put off something in game because I know it will be there tomorrow because its no big deal, and quite frankly I know everyone else can pretty much do or get the same thing.
So maybe the proper question should be:
Should one gamer's experience be hampered by another's unwillingness or inability to put forth the effort and time?
That would be a definitive no. I am all for you reap what you sow.
What seems to be looked over far too often in the design process now is the "core gamer"(kudos to SkarzTZ and ste2000 ). These gamers are not the top percentile nor are they the bottom. Playtime changes directly to what they are doing in the game or real life and for the most part encompasses the full spectrum of gaming styles. "Core" gamers spend time over months and years in games soloing, grouping, raiding, and in fact just getting on to talk with friends. This leads towards more the feeling of a community than just playing a game with online elements. For many feeling like they are part of a community is the greatest addiction of all.
From what I have seen Vanguard seems to be on target for this demographic: content when you do not have time to devote to group, content for groups, and content for when you have the ability to raid. Personally this is what I have been waiting for because it does promote grouping and interdependency something that has not been present for a long time.
i dont want a new trend mmorpg where you can solo all your way without problems and get bored in the first month. I want to solo, but it must requiere a lot of effort or at least it shouldn't be easy.
I want a highly polished world with a lot of ingame stories told by npcs, i want freedom, i want groups and the feel of a gaming comunity...
The innovation is secondary, Vanguard will have some innovative features, but sigil is not going to conduct an experiment, they want to design a solid game that will last a lot of time, a game where the traveling is part of the experience instead of something boring that you have to do in order to reach your next grinding area.
I dont want an experiment that nobody will be able to tell for sure if it will work or not, i want to feel the same things that i did in everquest.
That is what im looking in vanguard, the innovation is a plus, not a requirement.
Originally posted by Gresteh i dont want a new trend mmorpg where you can solo all your way without problems and get bored in the first month. I want to solo, but it must requiere a lot of effort or at least it shouldn't be easy.I want a highly polished world with a lot of ingame stories told by npcs, i want freedom, i want groups and the feel of a gaming comunity...The innovation is secondary, Vanguard will have some innovative features, but sigil is not going to conduct an experiment, they want to design a solid game that will last a lot of time, a game where the traveling is part of the experience instead of something boring that you have to do in order to reach your next grinding area.I dont want an experiment that nobody will be able to tell for sure if it will work or not, i want to feel the same things that i did in everquest.That is what im looking in vanguard, the innovation is a plus, not a requirement.
I couldn't have explain it better........... That s what Vanguard is all about
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearley that is what they hope to recreate.
even though we aren't the majority anymore, we still have a great pull on any game. but that pull can only come from those who are willing to learn from us
This in fact is partially true. People that started playing MMO's like EQ 5-7 years ago, many of them were late teens, early 20's. Most of those people now have grown up and are working 40+ hours a week and have something called a "life". Newer additions to the MMO market tend to be well, all about "instance gratification". So, the MMO market has changed in a couple of ways, both of which do really fit into a real long and drawn out leveling treadmill. Of course, there are people out there that have alot of time on there hands AND dont mind taking 6 months playing 40 hours a week to get to the top.
But is that really such a good thing?
And more importantly, is it going to be fun to play while you are going up the ladder?
If you dont like vangaurd then %&#@ off and go to another discussion jeez
And its the year 2005, guess what ITS ALL BEEN DONE. There is nothing new period anywhere and who the hell needs something new every time??
I just want graphics to keep getting better and better and combat systems to become more and more intuitive. And storylines to be more and more engrossing. Not new just better.
Maybe environments and player designs will look new and be better but theres really nothing to be done that hasnt been either imagine or pulled off already in some way in some other game or book or movie or novel or short story or dirty joke.
Vanguard is nothing new but what is? Is Guild Wars innovative? No. Name one feature in that game that is innovative and I or someone else can tell you where they borrowed it from. If you call creative borrowing innovation then WoW is the most innovative game ever as it borrows heavily from about every game ever made, which is why its so succesful and pleasing to play. Environments might be new, but you cant re-invent rocks or dirt or trees. God already got the patent.
Innovative combat system? Just a mish mosh of things other games have done.
Storylines innovative? Just read the bible. ITS ALL BEEN DONE. To death and back again.
Vanguard looks like its gonna be wicked. Ill buy a Xbox just so I can play it on my couch.
An MMORPG I can play on the couch? Thats my kind of innovation. But theres nothing new anywhere. Thats my 2 cents.
Thank you for flying Anarchy Airlines. Now get the %&#$ out.
This post has been brought to you by trolling @$$wipes who piss me off.
look first off no one here said ANYTHING about not liking this game...in fact i can't wait for it. but the fact remains that things change and not all are for the best. all we have has voiced our opinion. if you don't like it tough. Remember if it all has been done before then why would you want to have "better graphics"? who cares whether or not something takes a little from something else, that's not the point. the point is that all of the borrowed things have never been used together. That is innovtative, it is "new". So all i have to say to you is this: grow up a little and see what things really are before you try to complain about it!!!!
There are still few info about this game, because is still in Alpha, although it should enter Beta stage soon. More info should become available after the E3 expo.
The best information you can get is on the official website, either the FAQs or the Forum.
Click on my signature to go straight to the official website.
Originally posted by Gresteh i dont want a new trend mmorpg where you can solo all your way without problems and get bored in the first month. I want to solo, but it must requiere a lot of effort or at least it shouldn't be easy.
*drool*
As long as raiders and groupers dont get shortcuts because they do a ''more worthy'' activity, the harder you fine tuned solo, the happier I will be. In fact, it would be a LOT better if only soloers can reach the TOP of the soloing system, even if it mean they dont reach others TOP(which is fine, someone who care will do it, and someone who is a gloating animal will gloat about something else, instanced solo missions or mobs that can only be hunted solo or some such features). A race of villains that have powers multiplied by the amount of players within a radius is a possible solution, with a pure raw multiplier you understand such ''a dragon'' could only be soloed.
That's been said, you need to make sure the casuals dont envy us when they are in casuals zones, this is crucial. Yes, make them envy us and drool over us, when they enter hardcores zones. But for Godsakes, make sure they dont envy us in any form when they are in casuals zones. Casuals and hardcores can both be happy in the game, they need their stuff adapted to them. WoW give everything to casuals. EQ give everything to hardcores raiders. There are others ways.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Or am I wrong, I cant find anything in this game that is not just a rehash of the past, no progression in the MMO development on this one. Everything on the site is just a bunch of wispy comments on what they "want" to do, its all Fluff in the FAQ, none of it answers anything, and it reads like a "look at me look at me, im brad!". I don't get where everyone is getting that this game is so revolutionary. Its clearly not. Any one wish to correct me?
I wish people wouldn't open their mouth making themselves look like an ______, BEFORE getting info from a game and here is a quote from an E3 rep:
" items that you no longer use can be given to guild members. while this happens now, i am referring to no drop items. example- you get qvic helm. you can now give your elemental helm to a fellow guild member as an upgrade for them. however, that individual must have killed the mob that drops the item for them to use it; otherwise, they will have the item statless. example- kill nagafen, loot cloak of flames. upgrade cloak of flames, you decide to give it to your lvl 1 twink. they can equip it; however, since they have not killed nagafen, cloak is statless. once the twink gets a nagafen kill under their belt, then stats come"
Thats only one quote of the "Nothing New here" philosophy here..ROFL
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth No one has time for such things any more. I'm sorry, but even if they released eq in its original state (before it all went "bad"), no one will play it (some would im sure), That game style doesn't fit in 2005 or 2008.
lol, man what kind of a lame argument is that? So in these 5-7 years ppl have suddenly gotten much less spare time (while our society have become more and more efficent?). Personally, I have more spare time today than I had back in the days while I was playing EQ. Do you mean that suddenly the "MMO playerbase" collective decided they didnt want to spend that much time on MMO:s anymore? Or that everyone suddenly adapted the "why play EQ when I can lvl much faster in WoW" way of thinking? Don't think so. I really hope that it will take as much time to get anywhere in Vanguard that it did in EQ. Not everyone play to get max level in a month, its mainly about beeing part of a great community. If you only got an hour, you can still solo in Vanguard. Or just chat with some friends and work on your tradeskills.
Agree. the "no one has time for such things anymore" sounds like an excuse saying they don't want to work hard to get far in a game. working hard makes it that much more worth it when you finally achieve that great level. be able to look back on all the hard work you've done and feel proud.
Agree. the "no one has time for such things anymore" sounds like an excuse saying they don't want to work hard to get far in a game. working hard makes it that much more worth it when you finally achieve that great level. be able to look back on all the hard work you've done and feel proud.[/b][/quote]
i agree wholeheartedly with this statement. iI won't lie when i say i want to be the highest lvl and all this, but if i get high lvls i want it to be because of alot of hard work and, i'm sure<alot of fun experiences. i want to see a game that can promote high lvls yet at the same time make you work for it.
Comments
I agree with the last few posts.
If I have to name a game that embodies the meaning of mediocrity I would say EQ2...........easy
Im sorry, but hard core players are not the majority anymore. And clearley that is what they hope to recreate.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
They don't want "hardcore" gamers. They want "core" gamers. You must be dense to not realise there is a difference.
And why do they need to make a game for the "majority". Even if the "solo" crowd is the majority there's already enough watered down bore fests out there for them to play. Why wouldn't you make something different.
I don't understand why you're here bashing it. If you don't want to play it then don't. Don't come trashing a game just because it might not be made exactly for you. Go Play WoW or GW.
There is a big difference between CORE and HARDCORE.
But you said something right, CORE players are not the majority anymore.
Probably they count as the 40% of the MMO market.
Having said that...............who cares?
Can't you understand that Sigil is aiming to that 40% of the market?
And to be honest they are doing the right thing.
Anyone else is trying to appeal the occasional player, so if Sigil do it right, they can get a big slice of that 40% of the market.
Call them stupid....................
I have become a soloist since I left EQ, partly due to time constraints and partly due to the fact lately games give no incentive to do otherwise. Does this mean that Vanguard should cater to a soloing playing style because casual is the norm?
Absolutely not. There is always someone willing to spend more time and effort playing a game than someone else. Plain and simple, IMO games lately have catered to a more casual style that fits with the way I play now and personally I find them.....well lacking. Do not get me wrong I still enjoy them and a couple are actually pretty good games, but that feeling that there is something interesting ahead is just not there for me. I will just put off something in game because I know it will be there tomorrow because its no big deal, and quite frankly I know everyone else can pretty much do or get the same thing.
So maybe the proper question should be:
Should one gamer's experience be hampered by another's unwillingness or inability to put forth the effort and time?
That would be a definitive no. I am all for you reap what you sow.
What seems to be looked over far too often in the design process now is the "core gamer"(kudos to SkarzTZ and ste2000
). These gamers are not the top percentile nor are they the bottom. Playtime changes directly to what they are doing in the game or real life and for the most part encompasses the full spectrum of gaming styles. "Core" gamers spend time over months and years in games soloing, grouping, raiding, and in fact just getting on to talk with friends. This leads towards more the feeling of a community than just playing a game with online elements. For many feeling like they are part of a community is the greatest addiction of all.
From what I have seen Vanguard seems to be on target for this demographic: content when you do not have time to devote to group, content for groups, and content for when you have the ability to raid. Personally this is what I have been waiting for because it does promote grouping and interdependency something that has not been present for a long time.
i dont want a new trend mmorpg where you can solo all your way without problems and get bored in the first month. I want to solo, but it must requiere a lot of effort or at least it shouldn't be easy.
I want a highly polished world with a lot of ingame stories told by npcs, i want freedom, i want groups and the feel of a gaming comunity...
The innovation is secondary, Vanguard will have some innovative features, but sigil is not going to conduct an experiment, they want to design a solid game that will last a lot of time, a game where the traveling is part of the experience instead of something boring that you have to do in order to reach your next grinding area.
I dont want an experiment that nobody will be able to tell for sure if it will work or not, i want to feel the same things that i did in everquest.
That is what im looking in vanguard, the innovation is a plus, not a requirement.
I couldn't have explain it better...........
That s what Vanguard is all about
even though we aren't the majority anymore, we still have a great pull on any game. but that pull can only come from those who are willing to learn from us
This in fact is partially true. People that started playing MMO's like EQ 5-7 years ago, many of them were late teens, early 20's. Most of those people now have grown up and are working 40+ hours a week and have something called a "life". Newer additions to the MMO market tend to be well, all about "instance gratification". So, the MMO market has changed in a couple of ways, both of which do really fit into a real long and drawn out leveling treadmill. Of course, there are people out there that have alot of time on there hands AND dont mind taking 6 months playing 40 hours a week to get to the top.
But is that really such a good thing?
And more importantly, is it going to be fun to play while you are going up the ladder?
STFU all of you quit nattering back and forth
If you dont like vangaurd then %&#@ off and go to another discussion jeez
And its the year 2005, guess what ITS ALL BEEN DONE. There is nothing new period anywhere and who the hell needs something new every time??
I just want graphics to keep getting better and better and combat systems to become more and more intuitive. And storylines to be more and more engrossing. Not new just better.
Maybe environments and player designs will look new and be better but theres really nothing to be done that hasnt been either imagine or pulled off already in some way in some other game or book or movie or novel or short story or dirty joke.
Vanguard is nothing new but what is? Is Guild Wars innovative? No. Name one feature in that game that is innovative and I or someone else can tell you where they borrowed it from. If you call creative borrowing innovation then WoW is the most innovative game ever as it borrows heavily from about every game ever made, which is why its so succesful and pleasing to play. Environments might be new, but you cant re-invent rocks or dirt or trees. God already got the patent.
Innovative combat system? Just a mish mosh of things other games have done.
Storylines innovative? Just read the bible. ITS ALL BEEN DONE. To death and back again.
Vanguard looks like its gonna be wicked. Ill buy a Xbox just so I can play it on my couch.
An MMORPG I can play on the couch? Thats my kind of innovation. But theres nothing new anywhere. Thats my 2 cents.
Thank you for flying Anarchy Airlines. Now get the %&#$ out.
This post has been brought to you by trolling @$$wipes who piss me off.
Need a camomile?
look first off no one here said ANYTHING about not liking this game...in fact i can't wait for it. but the fact remains that things change and not all are for the best. all we have has voiced our opinion. if you don't like it tough. Remember if it all has been done before then why would you want to have "better graphics"? who cares whether or not something takes a little from something else, that's not the point. the point is that all of the borrowed things have never been used together. That is innovtative, it is "new". So all i have to say to you is this: grow up a little and see what things really are before you try to complain about it!!!!
There are still few info about this game, because is still in Alpha, although it should enter Beta stage soon.
More info should become available after the E3 expo.
The best information you can get is on the official website, either the FAQs or the Forum.
Click on my signature to go straight to the official website.
*drool*
As long as raiders and groupers dont get shortcuts because they do a ''more worthy'' activity, the harder you fine tuned solo, the happier I will be. In fact, it would be a LOT better if only soloers can reach the TOP of the soloing system, even if it mean they dont reach others TOP(which is fine, someone who care will do it, and someone who is a gloating animal will gloat about something else, instanced solo missions or mobs that can only be hunted solo or some such features). A race of villains that have powers multiplied by the amount of players within a radius is a possible solution, with a pure raw multiplier you understand such ''a dragon'' could only be soloed.
That's been said, you need to make sure the casuals dont envy us when they are in casuals zones, this is crucial. Yes, make them envy us and drool over us, when they enter hardcores zones. But for Godsakes, make sure they dont envy us in any form when they are in casuals zones. Casuals and hardcores can both be happy in the game, they need their stuff adapted to them. WoW give everything to casuals. EQ give everything to hardcores raiders. There are others ways.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I wish people wouldn't open their mouth making themselves look like an ______, BEFORE getting info from a game and here is a quote from an E3 rep:
" items that you no longer use can be given to guild members. while this happens now, i am referring to no drop items. example- you get qvic helm. you can now give your elemental helm to a fellow guild member as an upgrade for them. however, that individual must have killed the mob that drops the item for them to use it; otherwise, they will have the item statless. example- kill nagafen, loot cloak of flames. upgrade cloak of flames, you decide to give it to your lvl 1 twink. they can equip it; however, since they have not killed nagafen, cloak is statless. once the twink gets a nagafen kill under their belt, then stats come"
Thats only one quote of the "Nothing New here" philosophy here..ROFL
now go read up but STFU first
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody
lol, man what kind of a lame argument is that? So in these 5-7 years ppl have suddenly gotten much less spare time (while our society have become more and more efficent?). Personally, I have more spare time today than I had back in the days while I was playing EQ. Do you mean that suddenly the "MMO playerbase" collective decided they didnt want to spend that much time on MMO:s anymore? Or that everyone suddenly adapted the "why play EQ when I can lvl much faster in WoW" way of thinking? Don't think so. I really hope that it will take as much time to get anywhere in Vanguard that it did in EQ. Not everyone play to get max level in a month, its mainly about beeing part of a great community. If you only got an hour, you can still solo in Vanguard. Or just chat with some friends and work on your tradeskills.
Agree. the "no one has time for such things anymore" sounds like an excuse saying they don't want to work hard to get far in a game. working hard makes it that much more worth it when you finally achieve that great level. be able to look back on all the hard work you've done and feel proud.
[quote]
Agree. the "no one has time for such things anymore" sounds like an excuse saying they don't want to work hard to get far in a game. working hard makes it that much more worth it when you finally achieve that great level. be able to look back on all the hard work you've done and feel proud.[/b][/quote]
i agree wholeheartedly with this statement. iI won't lie when i say i want to be the highest lvl and all this, but if i get high lvls i want it to be because of alot of hard work and, i'm sure<alot of fun experiences. i want to see a game that can promote high lvls yet at the same time make you work for it.