I think they explained it all very well and to many people here are jumping the gun. I wont explain it if you can't see it yourself it would be so easy you would make it difficult to understand. But heres some small understanding of it. Dave said this last weekend we don't want our players to not be able to do anything but we want them to have freedom to go explore the world from the start so when they start in our world they can go anywhere they want and yes some things will be hard to do alone. That right there should explain the tier system pretty easy if not then I guess I don't understand it.
See to me Tiers don't mean anything like a level system it just means some areas will not be easy to travel through alone and if you do you better be prepared to die. But if you will he said that you can go anywhere from the get go you don't have to stay in one area to be able to gain from playing the game the whole world is your playground not just areas that are based on a level design. Also the tiered grounds mean just that your main level is tier one next tier 2 and so on you can go up to. So the difficulty can be on level ground, below, and above not just certain areas cause they also stated the world will change on player activity if you can't find it it will find you.
Also they never said weapons and armor had tiers I have seen the video's from everything and it is never said they are tiered just that you could make them to fit your needs in your class skill setup so that does not mean tiers just that there all of equal power unless its said somewhere else.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
I think people are expecting too much from a release announce. Development can change the direction of matters. Add to that the fact that the developers are doing the round table for specifics from the players - to make the game the players want.
In this development model, you can only state "this is our idea". Specific details will be fleshed out by the Round Table, and those things will be settled out as time goes on. It's at least a year or more from the release of this game; it's not like it is totally finished and ready to beta test. The devs were pretty clear about that.
Granted, this can still fall short in a number of areas, so I've got cautious optimism. The basic idea behind their development model was "we've been doing the same thing for too long", and I'm heartened by this statement. Now, we just have to see if they follow through.
But saying "it sucks" before even pitching in, smacks of pure hatred toward the game being developed without examination. Even the OP goes on the basis of "there's not much information", but there is. On EQNexus, there's a quote about the tiers (I believe it originated from Massively) - this was the second result when I googled "tiers + EQ Next":
On tiers: While trying to get a handle on the new concepts of EverQuest Next, some folks latched onto the term tiers as a substitute for levels. Georgeson, however, explained that the two are not just interchangeable terms for the same idea. Tier doesn't equate to power level -- it means capability. Higher tiers mean that players have a handle on how the game is played, from how to do combat to how to manipulate their skills to make various builds. It also means that they have a more robust selection of skills, giving them more flexibility to deal with situations. Unlocking tiers is a matter of demonstrating you know what's going on in the game. And moving up tiers is not going to be a laborious process: Georgeson stated, "Unlocking them is a matter of days and weeks, not years."
They have video of characters using their skills, or tier abilities, or whatever you want to call them. The idea that they can't share with us what they have going on, what they are building and how it works because they don't have it yet completely ignores this. And speaking of sharing, the "Round Table" so far is nothing new. It's just polls that may or may not mean a damn thing. Time will tell on that one. But "this is our idea" would be nice, and exactly what I'm asking for in this thread. Lacking that sharing, I would have to conclude that the Round Table is yet another "been there, done that" farce as much as "we're making something new".
In short, I'd like to actually see this "sharing".
Have you watched the full SOE Live reveal, the multiple panels (Class one specifically), watched/read some of the many interviews that are floating around? There is plenty of info out there.
They've given the broad strokes and either are waiting to reveal the finer details or are still working them out or both.
Seems like you are looking for more of what GW2 did by revealing a class, some skills, and a few short vids to show off the class. Seems way too early for something like this. They've only revealed around 6 classes so far and even fewer abilities.
They have no reason to reveal every single detail at once. They have said they have a specific release schedule where they will reveal key elements as time passes, while listening to feedback and adapting if needed (they said they toned back on shoulder pads for example).
Again, not sure what you want specifically that hasn't already been revealed. Could you be more specific beyond just "tiers" as that is fairly broad in EQN.
Also they never said weapons and armor had tiers I have seen the video's from everything and it is never said they are tiered just that you could make them to fit your needs in your class skill setup so that does not mean tiers just that there all of equal power unless its said somewhere else.
"But your tier three warrior, in order to advance to tier four, has to collect a full suit of tier three armor. You have to have spent enough points in that class. You have to have accomplished a certain amount of things in the game in order to have advanced."
They have said that gear and I believe abilities will have Tiers as well. Implying either you need specific gear to enter particular areas or it will be extra hard without it.
Same thing with skills, I believe they said you'll unlock higher Tiers as you progress.
While it seems they are getting away from just simply having a Fireball at Tier 1 do 5 damage and Tier 4 do 20 damage and may be going more of a creative route like the higher the Tier, the quicker it casts, less it costs to cast, maybe has added effects etc. So instead of just multiplying the damage, extra things are added to give more depth and make it easier to handle tough encounters. All just a guess though.
they only started talking about the game this month, they will likely space out the release of info between now and launch just like every other mmo has is or will do. It sucks but keeps us interested i suppose
Yep. Single player games never do this. MMOs have a common practice of spurting out tidbits of information over weeks, months, even years to generative interest and hype in their game.
Its because in MMO's there's a lot more trial and error. To the OP. Its because the tiers are pretty much how the entire progression will work in EQN. I'm sure they do not have everything set in stone right now regarding progression, hence why they are vague about this topic and others.
I am pretty sure the videos we have seen were not working models but very specific made for demo models,
for instance they have said they had a player running the boss in that fight, we have actually seen ZERO instances of the AI working...at all...in any shape or form, the little kobolds didn't have any ai they just stood around and let themselves be killed...the ones running towards the bridge...for all we know that is all they could do.
The classes were probably done the same way, which is why we have seen no other character models released, they probably have created one human female model, one human male model (as seen in Landmark), and one of those cat people. They probably have one gear set made (which we have seen the human gear set on every human character in every video whether male or female just with different tints) for the human and one for the Kerra.
I am not saying they don't have 3D models made but I don't think they have them in the game world, and I don't think they have classes in the game world either, just enough to fake a reveal demo...which isn't saying they are wrong for doing it that way I just don't think we should overestimate the amount of real game available at the moment.
I imagine landmark is further along because it needs none of the above except for a male and female human model.
My understanding of the concept behind the Tiers and lack of levels is that the power disparity among players will be very small. What I mean by this is that a new player will have very similar HP, dmg, etc. to a veteran who has played for 1 year. They have stated that it is very difficult to increase your stats and that weapons and armor do not have stats either.
They have also stated that monsters will by on the same power scale as players, meaning that almost all monsters will also be around the same power level (like players). The AI is how they will accomplish varying levels of difficulty, with "smarter" monsters being more difficult. Likewise, increasing and augmenting abilities is how players will become more powerful. Here is an example:
A tier 1 newbie warrior has 2 abilities (lets call them "warrior strike" and jump). His strike costs 1/2 his energy and does 10 damage. He fights a wolf, who is very dumb, has only 1 "bite" ability that hits for 8 damage. A simple battle.
A tier 4 veteran warrior has 8 abilities letting him do AOE dmg, teleport, leap, block damage for himself and others, etc. He still has the "warrior strike" ability but has some gloves that reduces the energy cost of it to 1/4 his energy. The strike still does 10 damage. He fights an orc shaman who is very smart and has 8 different abilities: he can root, slow, snare, maybe heal (with cooldown), and a "hit" ability that does 8 damage. The shaman does the same base damage as the wolf, but he can kite, slow, root, heal, etc. and has a much smarter AI, making him much more difficult.
What all this leads to is more challenging and engaging fights as you level up, without "out-leveling" any areas. The cool thing is that the whole world is accessible and interesting to all players all the time. The problem is that people may not feel like they are progressing enough or "max out" too quickly... I'd be interested to see how they deal with that.
My understanding of the concept behind the Tiers and lack of levels is that the power disparity among players will be very small. What I mean by this is that a new player will have very similar HP, dmg, etc. to a veteran who has played for 1 year. They have stated that it is very difficult to increase your stats and that weapons and armor do not have stats either.
They have also stated that monsters will by on the same power scale as players, meaning that almost all monsters will also be around the same power level (like players). The AI is how they will accomplish varying levels of difficulty, with "smarter" monsters being more difficult. Likewise, increasing and augmenting abilities is how players will become more powerful. Here is an example:
A tier 1 newbie warrior has 2 abilities (lets call them "warrior strike" and jump). His strike costs 1/2 his energy and does 10 damage. He fights a wolf, who is very dumb, has only 1 "bite" ability that hits for 8 damage. A simple battle.
A tier 4 veteran warrior has 8 abilities letting him do AOE dmg, teleport, leap, block damage for himself and others, etc. He still has the "warrior strike" ability but has some gloves that reduces the energy cost of it to 1/4 his energy. The strike still does 10 damage. He fights an orc shaman who is very smart and has 8 different abilities: he can root, slow, snare, maybe heal (with cooldown), and a "hit" ability that does 8 damage. The shaman does the same base damage as the wolf, but he can kite, slow, root, heal, etc. and has a much smarter AI, making him much more difficult.
What all this leads to is more challenging and engaging fights as you level up, without "out-leveling" any areas. The cool thing is that the whole world is accessible and interesting to all players all the time. The problem is that people may not feel like they are progressing enough or "max out" too quickly... I'd be interested to see how they deal with that.
Power creep has snuck into every MMO....ever, the only question is how long and to what extent.
Eve started out fully horizontal but every increase in tiers has created a bigger gap between baseline and elite. SWG was mostly horizontal..well lets just not talk about SWG...I imagine EQNext will eventually face it as well, nothing sells expansions like "SUPER NEW POWERS"...
i think what can keep it a bit at bay is a look at moba games or trading card games - you dont really have a power creep there with new characters or cards afai understand. And it seems they are strongly build their combat and class system around the moba idea.
My understanding of the concept behind the Tiers and lack of levels is that the power disparity among players will be very small. What I mean by this is that a new player will have very similar HP, dmg, etc. to a veteran who has played for 1 year. They have stated that it is very difficult to increase your stats and that weapons and armor do not have stats either.
They have also stated that monsters will by on the same power scale as players, meaning that almost all monsters will also be around the same power level (like players). The AI is how they will accomplish varying levels of difficulty, with "smarter" monsters being more difficult. Likewise, increasing and augmenting abilities is how players will become more powerful. Here is an example:
A tier 1 newbie warrior has 2 abilities (lets call them "warrior strike" and jump). His strike costs 1/2 his energy and does 10 damage. He fights a wolf, who is very dumb, has only 1 "bite" ability that hits for 8 damage. A simple battle.
A tier 4 veteran warrior has 8 abilities letting him do AOE dmg, teleport, leap, block damage for himself and others, etc. He still has the "warrior strike" ability but has some gloves that reduces the energy cost of it to 1/4 his energy. The strike still does 10 damage. He fights an orc shaman who is very smart and has 8 different abilities: he can root, slow, snare, maybe heal (with cooldown), and a "hit" ability that does 8 damage. The shaman does the same base damage as the wolf, but he can kite, slow, root, heal, etc. and has a much smarter AI, making him much more difficult.
What all this leads to is more challenging and engaging fights as you level up, without "out-leveling" any areas. The cool thing is that the whole world is accessible and interesting to all players all the time. The problem is that people may not feel like they are progressing enough or "max out" too quickly... I'd be interested to see how they deal with that.
Power creep has snuck into every MMO....ever, the only question is how long and to what extent.
Eve started out fully horizontal but every increase in tiers has created a bigger gap between baseline and elite. SWG was mostly horizontal..well lets just not talk about SWG...I imagine EQNext will eventually face it as well, nothing sells expansions like "SUPER NEW POWERS"...
I do not disagree, but I think there are creative ways to slow down the process.
Example: Warrior can't use Wizard port and Necro summon skills in the same build because they cost too much. No gear in the game allows for this combo.
Expansion comes along and finally adds that key gear pieces that allows this combo. Opens up a whole new way to play the same old class. Still just as powerful as before, but now has more potential.
Same with adding a new class. One new class adds a whole new set of skills to tweak all previous builds.
Not the same as simply adding in a sword that does double damage then the previous "best" sword, or doubling fireball damage, but it is a way to stay with their design and throw a bone to people that need to be fed new "power" content constantly.
Sorta reminds me of real world Amusement Parks.. Lets take a look at 2 of the most popular ones out there.. First we have Disney, Florida that has abundant land and often when they add on to their experience it is horizontal in nature.. Disney seldom has to ever tear down one attraction to make room for another.. But then on the reverse side we have Cedar Point of Ohio, or you can use Disney, Calif where there is limited property so any expansion in the park must go vertical and often does.. Cedar Point is famous for pushing the limits on vertical progression.. Neither park if right or wrong, and they attract different markets..
Could a Park exist doing what both Disney and Cedar Point do? NO.. It would simply cost too much to develop a park that grows both up and out.. SOE needs to be careful just how big their game gets in size, and better have a plan on they plan to deal with boredom.. Every game suffers fall off, where people just tire of the same ole, same ole.. It will be interesting to hear and see how SOE plans to address that..
Well the answer is simple: They can explain it but they don't want to do it.
Certain details might not be finalized and other features still have room for certain changes but the concepts and development plans are there. SOE could easily publish all of them and even show where things are done and where stuff is stil changing. They could easily explain the concepts and their goals BUT this is not what the pr-department wants. They try to hype players and keep information limit(to keep attention by releasing information slowly over time until release of the game) and vague(try to keep as many possible customers as possible).
My understanding of the concept behind the Tiers and lack of levels is that the power disparity among players will be very small. What I mean by this is that a new player will have very similar HP, dmg, etc. to a veteran who has played for 1 year. They have stated that it is very difficult to increase your stats and that weapons and armor do not have stats either.
They have also stated that monsters will by on the same power scale as players, meaning that almost all monsters will also be around the same power level (like players). The AI is how they will accomplish varying levels of difficulty, with "smarter" monsters being more difficult. Likewise, increasing and augmenting abilities is how players will become more powerful. Here is an example:
A tier 1 newbie warrior has 2 abilities (lets call them "warrior strike" and jump). His strike costs 1/2 his energy and does 10 damage. He fights a wolf, who is very dumb, has only 1 "bite" ability that hits for 8 damage. A simple battle.
A tier 4 veteran warrior has 8 abilities letting him do AOE dmg, teleport, leap, block damage for himself and others, etc. He still has the "warrior strike" ability but has some gloves that reduces the energy cost of it to 1/4 his energy. The strike still does 10 damage. He fights an orc shaman who is very smart and has 8 different abilities: he can root, slow, snare, maybe heal (with cooldown), and a "hit" ability that does 8 damage. The shaman does the same base damage as the wolf, but he can kite, slow, root, heal, etc. and has a much smarter AI, making him much more difficult.
What all this leads to is more challenging and engaging fights as you level up, without "out-leveling" any areas. The cool thing is that the whole world is accessible and interesting to all players all the time. The problem is that people may not feel like they are progressing enough or "max out" too quickly... I'd be interested to see how they deal with that.
Power creep has snuck into every MMO....ever, the only question is how long and to what extent.
Eve started out fully horizontal but every increase in tiers has created a bigger gap between baseline and elite. SWG was mostly horizontal..well lets just not talk about SWG...I imagine EQNext will eventually face it as well, nothing sells expansions like "SUPER NEW POWERS"...
I do not disagree, but I think there are creative ways to slow down the process.
Example: Warrior can't use Wizard port and Necro summon skills in the same build because they cost too much. No gear in the game allows for this combo.
Expansion comes along and finally adds that key gear pieces that allows this combo. Opens up a whole new way to play the same old class. Still just as powerful as before, but now has more potential.
Same with adding a new class. One new class adds a whole new set of skills to tweak all previous builds.
Not the same as simply adding in a sword that does double damage then the previous "best" sword, or doubling fireball damage, but it is a way to stay with their design and throw a bone to people that need to be fed new "power" content constantly.
Yeap.. that's it ideally. But the problem of horizontal progression is, that you can't progress endlessly horizontal. At some point you do have all abilities imaginable, all items enabling all thinkable stuff.
Because of that new classes in MoBA games more often than not do feature well know abilities, just with a different mix. And because of multiclassing this doesn't work as well with EQN.. and even then you do have a limited amount of combinations.
Vertically you can always add just another number, more HP, more Dmg, more whatever.. vertically there is no limit.
Nevertheless i prefer horizontally progression a lot more.. and vertical progression should be rather limited, to not create a that big power gap, to let the whole game, whole areas be interesting.
UO back in the days was rather horizontal.. as a lot of others(SWG, EVE, most sandboxes), but as already said, the trap to add more vertical progression.. especially when you can't think of any new horizontal way to progress is omnipresent.
PS/Edit: Another way to progress without interfering the horizontal world, is to progress with wealth, with real estate, with politically influence and all that stuff.. but a lot of it have to involve pvp in some way or the other (EvE like territorial war and stuff, to give politics meaning, to give real estate more dynamic and meaning, to create more resource drains)
*Sniff* I don't smell any rat droppings wafting from over at the EQN teams offices yet OP. This game is still nearly a year out and I don't expect to see any real details released until the end of closed beta. Just tag lines they can hype until then. This shouldn't surprise anyone. The game industry is notorious for one upsmanship and feature details will be apt to change from feedback and play testing until nearing launch. This isn't unusual. While many people are dying to know little details patience is your best course of action here. As an aside, it is amazing how many people I have observed buy into the hype over the years only to have worn themselves out on playing before the game in question is ever released.
Comments
I think they explained it all very well and to many people here are jumping the gun. I wont explain it if you can't see it yourself it would be so easy you would make it difficult to understand. But heres some small understanding of it. Dave said this last weekend we don't want our players to not be able to do anything but we want them to have freedom to go explore the world from the start so when they start in our world they can go anywhere they want and yes some things will be hard to do alone. That right there should explain the tier system pretty easy if not then I guess I don't understand it.
See to me Tiers don't mean anything like a level system it just means some areas will not be easy to travel through alone and if you do you better be prepared to die. But if you will he said that you can go anywhere from the get go you don't have to stay in one area to be able to gain from playing the game the whole world is your playground not just areas that are based on a level design. Also the tiered grounds mean just that your main level is tier one next tier 2 and so on you can go up to. So the difficulty can be on level ground, below, and above not just certain areas cause they also stated the world will change on player activity if you can't find it it will find you.
Also they never said weapons and armor had tiers I have seen the video's from everything and it is never said they are tiered just that you could make them to fit your needs in your class skill setup so that does not mean tiers just that there all of equal power unless its said somewhere else.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
Have you watched the full SOE Live reveal, the multiple panels (Class one specifically), watched/read some of the many interviews that are floating around? There is plenty of info out there.
They've given the broad strokes and either are waiting to reveal the finer details or are still working them out or both.
Seems like you are looking for more of what GW2 did by revealing a class, some skills, and a few short vids to show off the class. Seems way too early for something like this. They've only revealed around 6 classes so far and even fewer abilities.
They have no reason to reveal every single detail at once. They have said they have a specific release schedule where they will reveal key elements as time passes, while listening to feedback and adapting if needed (they said they toned back on shoulder pads for example).
Again, not sure what you want specifically that hasn't already been revealed. Could you be more specific beyond just "tiers" as that is fairly broad in EQN.
"But your tier three warrior, in order to advance to tier four, has to collect a full suit of tier three armor. You have to have spent enough points in that class. You have to have accomplished a certain amount of things in the game in order to have advanced."
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/08/03/everquest-next-interview/
They have said that gear and I believe abilities will have Tiers as well. Implying either you need specific gear to enter particular areas or it will be extra hard without it.
Same thing with skills, I believe they said you'll unlock higher Tiers as you progress.
While it seems they are getting away from just simply having a Fireball at Tier 1 do 5 damage and Tier 4 do 20 damage and may be going more of a creative route like the higher the Tier, the quicker it casts, less it costs to cast, maybe has added effects etc. So instead of just multiplying the damage, extra things are added to give more depth and make it easier to handle tough encounters. All just a guess though.
Its because in MMO's there's a lot more trial and error. To the OP. Its because the tiers are pretty much how the entire progression will work in EQN. I'm sure they do not have everything set in stone right now regarding progression, hence why they are vague about this topic and others.
I am pretty sure the videos we have seen were not working models but very specific made for demo models,
for instance they have said they had a player running the boss in that fight, we have actually seen ZERO instances of the AI working...at all...in any shape or form, the little kobolds didn't have any ai they just stood around and let themselves be killed...the ones running towards the bridge...for all we know that is all they could do.
The classes were probably done the same way, which is why we have seen no other character models released, they probably have created one human female model, one human male model (as seen in Landmark), and one of those cat people. They probably have one gear set made (which we have seen the human gear set on every human character in every video whether male or female just with different tints) for the human and one for the Kerra.
I am not saying they don't have 3D models made but I don't think they have them in the game world, and I don't think they have classes in the game world either, just enough to fake a reveal demo...which isn't saying they are wrong for doing it that way I just don't think we should overestimate the amount of real game available at the moment.
I imagine landmark is further along because it needs none of the above except for a male and female human model.
My understanding of the concept behind the Tiers and lack of levels is that the power disparity among players will be very small. What I mean by this is that a new player will have very similar HP, dmg, etc. to a veteran who has played for 1 year. They have stated that it is very difficult to increase your stats and that weapons and armor do not have stats either.
They have also stated that monsters will by on the same power scale as players, meaning that almost all monsters will also be around the same power level (like players). The AI is how they will accomplish varying levels of difficulty, with "smarter" monsters being more difficult. Likewise, increasing and augmenting abilities is how players will become more powerful. Here is an example:
A tier 1 newbie warrior has 2 abilities (lets call them "warrior strike" and jump). His strike costs 1/2 his energy and does 10 damage. He fights a wolf, who is very dumb, has only 1 "bite" ability that hits for 8 damage. A simple battle.
A tier 4 veteran warrior has 8 abilities letting him do AOE dmg, teleport, leap, block damage for himself and others, etc. He still has the "warrior strike" ability but has some gloves that reduces the energy cost of it to 1/4 his energy. The strike still does 10 damage. He fights an orc shaman who is very smart and has 8 different abilities: he can root, slow, snare, maybe heal (with cooldown), and a "hit" ability that does 8 damage. The shaman does the same base damage as the wolf, but he can kite, slow, root, heal, etc. and has a much smarter AI, making him much more difficult.
What all this leads to is more challenging and engaging fights as you level up, without "out-leveling" any areas. The cool thing is that the whole world is accessible and interesting to all players all the time. The problem is that people may not feel like they are progressing enough or "max out" too quickly... I'd be interested to see how they deal with that.
Power creep has snuck into every MMO....ever, the only question is how long and to what extent.
Eve started out fully horizontal but every increase in tiers has created a bigger gap between baseline and elite. SWG was mostly horizontal..well lets just not talk about SWG...I imagine EQNext will eventually face it as well, nothing sells expansions like "SUPER NEW POWERS"...
I do not disagree, but I think there are creative ways to slow down the process.
Example: Warrior can't use Wizard port and Necro summon skills in the same build because they cost too much. No gear in the game allows for this combo.
Expansion comes along and finally adds that key gear pieces that allows this combo. Opens up a whole new way to play the same old class. Still just as powerful as before, but now has more potential.
Same with adding a new class. One new class adds a whole new set of skills to tweak all previous builds.
Not the same as simply adding in a sword that does double damage then the previous "best" sword, or doubling fireball damage, but it is a way to stay with their design and throw a bone to people that need to be fed new "power" content constantly.
Sorta reminds me of real world Amusement Parks.. Lets take a look at 2 of the most popular ones out there.. First we have Disney, Florida that has abundant land and often when they add on to their experience it is horizontal in nature.. Disney seldom has to ever tear down one attraction to make room for another.. But then on the reverse side we have Cedar Point of Ohio, or you can use Disney, Calif where there is limited property so any expansion in the park must go vertical and often does.. Cedar Point is famous for pushing the limits on vertical progression.. Neither park if right or wrong, and they attract different markets..
Could a Park exist doing what both Disney and Cedar Point do? NO.. It would simply cost too much to develop a park that grows both up and out.. SOE needs to be careful just how big their game gets in size, and better have a plan on they plan to deal with boredom.. Every game suffers fall off, where people just tire of the same ole, same ole.. It will be interesting to hear and see how SOE plans to address that..
Well the answer is simple: They can explain it but they don't want to do it.
Certain details might not be finalized and other features still have room for certain changes but the concepts and development plans are there. SOE could easily publish all of them and even show where things are done and where stuff is stil changing. They could easily explain the concepts and their goals BUT this is not what the pr-department wants. They try to hype players and keep information limit(to keep attention by releasing information slowly over time until release of the game) and vague(try to keep as many possible customers as possible).
Yeap.. that's it ideally. But the problem of horizontal progression is, that you can't progress endlessly horizontal. At some point you do have all abilities imaginable, all items enabling all thinkable stuff.
Because of that new classes in MoBA games more often than not do feature well know abilities, just with a different mix. And because of multiclassing this doesn't work as well with EQN.. and even then you do have a limited amount of combinations.
Vertically you can always add just another number, more HP, more Dmg, more whatever.. vertically there is no limit.
Nevertheless i prefer horizontally progression a lot more.. and vertical progression should be rather limited, to not create a that big power gap, to let the whole game, whole areas be interesting.
UO back in the days was rather horizontal.. as a lot of others(SWG, EVE, most sandboxes), but as already said, the trap to add more vertical progression.. especially when you can't think of any new horizontal way to progress is omnipresent.
PS/Edit: Another way to progress without interfering the horizontal world, is to progress with wealth, with real estate, with politically influence and all that stuff.. but a lot of it have to involve pvp in some way or the other (EvE like territorial war and stuff, to give politics meaning, to give real estate more dynamic and meaning, to create more resource drains)