There aren't a significant number because if there were, market research conducted by MMOs would find them and assuming there are enough people to make a game financially worthwhile, they'd be making games for them. The fact that they do not shows that there just aren't that many people that want an old-school game.
You people can keep trying to convince yourself that old-school games are still viable, they just aren't.
Actually, the poll associated with this thread counters your argument nicely.
If you have a game that can be run profitably on the 100 people covered by that opinion, you'd be absolutely correct.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Not really. Wow hardmodes were dances like regulars...the difference between your first time and the farm status time is that your tanks can take a blow, your weapon stab deeper, and your bandades are bigger. Same strategy...different clothes...
Maybe Eve, and yet that's probably because there's no game like it. If you were hardcore at EvE, do you think if another variant was released, you'd struggle at it?
Not really. This post shows the total lack of understanding of how WoW Hard Mode works as it introduces lots of other mechanics to be aware of.
Heck, according to this logic, Dark Souls / Demon souls is 'easy' on 'hard'.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
Kind of the reply I expected but, nonetheless...
I really don't see how any of that, almost all of which has no factual basis or is completely made up, has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is that the free to play business model needs both the free and paying players to work properly.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Freeloaders make me sick. And that's what the current generation is more and more all about.
Sanctioned (by devs) freeloading makes me happy.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Neo_ViperFreeloaders make me sick. And that's what the current generation is more and more all about.
Sanctioned (by devs) freeloading makes me happy.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
Hey, you know what they say "Time equals money" I guess its applied a little differently here but I mean something is better than nothing at all.
And I liked the response from "UNAT", what is he like the Don or Shaft? Lets hold a discussion, not pick on petty nuances that clearly conveys where the message is trying to go anyway.
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
Kind of the reply I expected but, nonetheless...
I really don't see how any of that, almost all of which has no factual basis or is completely made up, has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is that the free to play business model needs both the free and paying players to work properly.
The pay to win business model needs both. Not the free 2 play.
Why would a free game need paying customers? It's free.
P2W needs both in order to exploit a group properly, but that's not a free model for customers.
You don't NEED free players, You just need losers for your paying customers to be winners in a p2w game. This model is already floundering.
There are no facts supporting any of my comments. If you don't want to call it pay to win, that's not others fault for not accepting the marketing.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Freeloaders make me sick. And that's what the current generation is more and more all about.
Sanctioned (by devs) freeloading makes me happy.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
You don't care if it's people on disability paying your way though. Who cares right?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
Kind of the reply I expected but, nonetheless...
I really don't see how any of that, almost all of which has no factual basis or is completely made up, has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is that the free to play business model needs both the free and paying players to work properly.
The pay to win business model needs both. Not the free 2 play.
Why would a free game need paying customers? It's free.
P2W needs both in order to exploit a group properly, but that's not a free model for customers.
You don't NEED free players, You just need losers for your paying customers to be winners in a p2w game. This model is already floundering.
There are no facts supporting any of my comments. If you don't want to call it pay to win, that's not others fault for not accepting the marketing.
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
FinalFikus, I shall not challenge your beliefs, man. You, unatcoii and several others have shown me the error of my ways.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites. And in a similar fashion those leeches just give the illusion of a healthy community, but it's those who work (and pay) who make the whole thing actually work, last and improve.
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provite the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
But how this works in MMOs ,their jars are filled with water.
Janitor also cuts couple of their fingers at the door,hits their mouth with sledgehammer so they cant speak in tables and they need to leave all their clothes except underwears to the door.
+they can only drink 3 jars of water because janitor mutilated their stomach space abit.
And what i like in those peeps is when they say now i feel fine.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
So much generalisation going on. Don't know what type of F2P MMOS you have been playing but the ones that i play like RIFT for example has a community as good or bad as any other P2P or B2P MMO.
I think you are letting your own personal hate for F2P model cloud your judgement.
Freeloaders make me sick. And that's what the current generation is more and more all about.
Sanctioned (by devs) freeloading makes me happy.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
You don't care if it's people on disability paying your way though. Who cares right?
of course not. If people on disability decide to pay money in a FREE game (as i have demonstrated that you can have free fun), it is their decision.
Who am I to judge if they want to subsidize my game? In fact, i would oblige them since it is their choice.
You are correct that the paying players need to be there for the game to make money. What I am saying is that the free players are part of the system, and without them the game would fail.
That's a self-serving remark, as P2P games have been successful for many years (WoW dominated the market despite the expense of the expansions on top of the sub, itself).
Irrelevant. Completely different business model.
It's there to show you how wrong your assumption is -- millions of people in the "dark days" of gaming paid for subscription fees, unless they're used to playing trashed games that were hacked to play for "free".
EvE is a splendid example, even.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
Kind of the reply I expected but, nonetheless...
I really don't see how any of that, almost all of which has no factual basis or is completely made up, has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is that the free to play business model needs both the free and paying players to work properly.
The pay to win business model needs both. Not the free 2 play.
Why would a free game need paying customers? It's free.
P2W needs both in order to exploit a group properly, but that's not a free model for customers.
You don't NEED free players, You just need losers for your paying customers to be winners in a p2w game. This model is already floundering.
There are no facts supporting any of my comments. If you don't want to call it pay to win, that's not others fault for not accepting the marketing.
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
FinalFikus, I shall not challenge your beliefs, man. You, unatcoii and several others have shown me the error of my ways.
There is just two sides of the story.
I like free 2 play games. Has nothing to do with my beliefs. I believe the business model should fit the game. Crazy I know.
You were teaching us, dont stop now. You said the business model NEEDS free players. I said that "need" implies it's pay to win. Why is that so hard to explain if that's not how the model works. Teach me.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
So much generalisation going on. Don't know what type of F2P MMOS you have been playing but the ones that i play like RIFT for example has a community as good or bad as any other P2P or B2P MMO.
I think you are letting your own personal hate for F2P model cloud your judgement.
Yep, I dislike freeloaders, be it in games or anything else. Leeches who live on the money of other people. Sorry, that's the way I've been raised and teached, having an honorable life where you work for what you want.
And Rift's community is just as abysmal as any other F2P game. My LOTRO example still stands. I know the community of Laurelin before and after the move to F2P. The difference is obvious.
F2P means no consequences for your actions. Got banned? Just start another account and continue your antisocial behavior. At least having to BUY the game limits that kind of behavior.
B2P model? Fair enough, and quite good actually.
F2P? Cesspool of filth, the last recourse of bad games to try to milk some money from the few cash cows while the leeches take over your game.
You don't care if it's people on disability paying your way though. Who cares right?
of course not. If people on disability decide to pay money in a FREE game (as i have demonstrated that you can have free fun), it is their decision.
Who am I to judge if they want to subsidize my game? In fact, i would oblige them since it is their choice.
Good answer. I can respect that kind of answer all day long even if I disagree. I wish everyone knew what they believed and weren't afraid to admit it. Maybe playing games with you could be fun after all. I may have judged you too soon. Sorry.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
So much generalisation going on. Don't know what type of F2P MMOS you have been playing but the ones that i play like RIFT for example has a community as good or bad as any other P2P or B2P MMO.
I think you are letting your own personal hate for F2P model cloud your judgement.
Yep, I dislike freeloaders, be it in games or anything else. Leeches who live on the money of other people. Sorry, that's the way I've been raised and teached, having an honorable life where you work for what you want.
And Rift's community is just as abysmal as any other F2P game. My LOTRO example still stands. I know the community of Laurelin before and after the move to F2P. The difference is obvious.
F2P means no consequences for your actions. Got banned? Just start another account and continue your antisocial behavior. At least having to BUY the game limits that kind of behavior.
B2P model? Fair enough, and quite good actually.
F2P? Cesspool of filth, the last recourse of bad games to try to milk some money from the few cash cows while the leeches take over your game.
No it is not. But then again for someone who is biased and hold so much hate for free players i don't expect a thoughtful or prudent approach from you regarding this matter. the kind of language you use to describe F2P community is good enough proof for me.
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
So much generalisation going on. Don't know what type of F2P MMOS you have been playing but the ones that i play like RIFT for example has a community as good or bad as any other P2P or B2P MMO.
I think you are letting your own personal hate for F2P model cloud your judgement.
Yep, I dislike freeloaders, be it in games or anything else. Leeches who live on the money of other people. Sorry, that's the way I've been raised and teached, having an honorable life where you work for what you want.
And Rift's community is just as abysmal as any other F2P game. My LOTRO example still stands. I know the community of Laurelin before and after the move to F2P. The difference is obvious.
F2P means no consequences for your actions. Got banned? Just start another account and continue your antisocial behavior. At least having to BUY the game limits that kind of behavior.
B2P model? Fair enough, and quite good actually.
F2P? Cesspool of filth, the last recourse of bad games to try to milk some money from the few cash cows while the leeches take over your game.
Agreed 100% You nailed it exactly
And many of these posters will say your generalizing, which is a simple and effective way of dismissing your opinions
But for some reason, their opinions are more valid....LOL
The most important point you made, is consequences. The F2P games attract far more trolls and scammers than any other pay model, and all they have to do is make another account if they get caught.
Now watch, somebody will come along and trivialize what I just said, and claim that the amount of trolls and scammers are small and we shouldn't worry about it.......
I don't particularly like the FTP model. I like my computer games to have all parts accessible by everyone.
However it's not 'leeching' to play FTP and not pay. You are not playing the game against the developers will. They designed it so you can play for free.
You don't care if it's people on disability paying your way though. Who cares right?
of course not. If people on disability decide to pay money in a FREE game (as i have demonstrated that you can have free fun), it is their decision.
Who am I to judge if they want to subsidize my game? In fact, i would oblige them since it is their choice.
Good answer. I can respect that kind of answer all day long even if I disagree. I wish everyone knew what they believed and weren't afraid to admit it. Maybe playing games with you could be fun after all. I may have judged you too soon. Sorry.
That i agree. It is ok to be different and i am never shy from stating unpopular opinions, and i also state them as such, as opposed to some who will try to state their opinions as truth.
For example:
I like F2P MMOs. I don't care why devs develop a game, and only if the game is fun to me. I play MMORPGs as solo games most (but not all) of the time. I think some are good enough SP games. I don't need a virtual world in a MMORPG to have fun.
And of course .. i don't care about "community" in games .. i don't play games to make friends. I have enough friends & family in RL.
Comments
If you have a game that can be run profitably on the 100 people covered by that opinion, you'd be absolutely correct.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
UNAT, you're working on the false assumption that an item mall based MMO can survive on only paying customers. The business model simply doesn't work that way. What you're basically saying is there would have to be a mandatory purchase each month. Yes, when you make it a subscription game, it functions like a subscription game - Imagine that?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Not really. This post shows the total lack of understanding of how WoW Hard Mode works as it introduces lots of other mechanics to be aware of.
Heck, according to this logic, Dark Souls / Demon souls is 'easy' on 'hard'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It's UNATCOII, don't insult player names by shortening them.
Secondly, F2P is the doom of MMOs as we know it, because it reduces standards. Your freebie reduces the quality, which is exactly what is being produced these days -- beta quality games being released even.
Who would want to work for peanuts, when EA and Activision-Blizzard pays top dollar?
And EvE is in pretty bad shape over PLEX (how CCP countered ISK sellers, but at a terrible price in the end -- but hey, isn't it fun IsBoxing at those gates, especially if paid for by Mitts complete with bot like Mitten names, huh?).
Yeah, people understand what is going on, even if you may not.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Kind of the reply I expected but, nonetheless...
I really don't see how any of that, almost all of which has no factual basis or is completely made up, has anything to do with what we were talking about, which is that the free to play business model needs both the free and paying players to work properly.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My YouTube MMO PvP Channel
Sanctioned (by devs) freeloading makes me happy.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
In fact, i finished, a short while ago, finished story content in Marvel Heroes. 30 hours of free fun. Oh, i am not of the current generation, but who says only the current one can enjoy freeloading.
Oh .. i have no intention so pay a dime for MH. The devs offered .. practically begging me to play for free (with all the ads and stuff) .. and i have decided to give them a chance and oblige them.
Hey, you know what they say "Time equals money"
And I liked the response from "UNAT", what is he like the Don or Shaft? Lets hold a discussion, not pick on petty nuances that clearly conveys where the message is trying to go anyway.
The pay to win business model needs both. Not the free 2 play.
Why would a free game need paying customers? It's free.
P2W needs both in order to exploit a group properly, but that's not a free model for customers.
You don't NEED free players, You just need losers for your paying customers to be winners in a p2w game. This model is already floundering.
There are no facts supporting any of my comments. If you don't want to call it pay to win, that's not others fault for not accepting the marketing.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
You don't care if it's people on disability paying your way though. Who cares right?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I feel like I'm trying to explain thunder to Greeks.
FinalFikus, I shall not challenge your beliefs, man. You, unatcoii and several others have shown me the error of my ways.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
One does not magically become smart by quoting Greek mythology
I'm still waiting for a valid explanation of how freeloaders (aka people never paying a cent to play) are helping a game. I guess I'll be waiting for a long, long time, since it's basically the same than the people who leech social systems in "real life" in order to live without working. It's parasites. And in a similar fashion those leeches just give the illusion of a healthy community, but it's those who work (and pay) who make the whole thing actually work, last and improve.My computer is better than yours.
Neo_Viper, I've already explained it to you. I've provided plenty of links in this thread and others to explain how it works, as well. If you don't want to believe any of it, that's fine, but that's how the system works.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Beside the fact that those freeloaders provide the illusion of a healthy player base, I still didn't read anything showing what they really bring to a MMORPG. People who don't pay a cent are leeching the work of those who actually pay.
I could open a pub offering free beers but the whiskey and all other drinks would be charged, it would definitely be full of people, giving the illusion of a very healthy business, yet it would fail in less than a month.
The F2P model can only work if people pay to play. Freeloaders are an illusion. They are useless dead weights. And they also bring a lot of immaturity and bad community into games. Why bother with social rules when you can create a new account for free if your other one is banned for you being an ass?
The B2P model is a decent compromise, but the F2P model is a plague. Nothing good can come out of a community made of freeloaders, immature people and leeches.
My computer is better than yours.
But how this works in MMOs ,their jars are filled with water.
Janitor also cuts couple of their fingers at the door,hits their mouth with sledgehammer so they cant speak in tables and they need to leave all their clothes except underwears to the door.
+they can only drink 3 jars of water because janitor mutilated their stomach space abit.
And what i like in those peeps is when they say now i feel fine.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
So much generalisation going on. Don't know what type of F2P MMOS you have been playing but the ones that i play like RIFT for example has a community as good or bad as any other P2P or B2P MMO.
I think you are letting your own personal hate for F2P model cloud your judgement.
of course not. If people on disability decide to pay money in a FREE game (as i have demonstrated that you can have free fun), it is their decision.
Who am I to judge if they want to subsidize my game? In fact, i would oblige them since it is their choice.
There is just two sides of the story.
I like free 2 play games. Has nothing to do with my beliefs. I believe the business model should fit the game. Crazy I know.
You were teaching us, dont stop now. You said the business model NEEDS free players. I said that "need" implies it's pay to win. Why is that so hard to explain if that's not how the model works. Teach me.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Yep, I dislike freeloaders, be it in games or anything else. Leeches who live on the money of other people. Sorry, that's the way I've been raised and teached, having an honorable life where you work for what you want.
And Rift's community is just as abysmal as any other F2P game. My LOTRO example still stands. I know the community of Laurelin before and after the move to F2P. The difference is obvious.
F2P means no consequences for your actions. Got banned? Just start another account and continue your antisocial behavior. At least having to BUY the game limits that kind of behavior.
B2P model? Fair enough, and quite good actually.
F2P? Cesspool of filth, the last recourse of bad games to try to milk some money from the few cash cows while the leeches take over your game.
My computer is better than yours.
Good answer. I can respect that kind of answer all day long even if I disagree. I wish everyone knew what they believed and weren't afraid to admit it. Maybe playing games with you could be fun after all. I may have judged you too soon. Sorry.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
No it is not. But then again for someone who is biased and hold so much hate for free players i don't expect a thoughtful or prudent approach from you regarding this matter. the kind of language you use to describe F2P community is good enough proof for me.
Agreed 100% You nailed it exactly
And many of these posters will say your generalizing, which is a simple and effective way of dismissing your opinions
But for some reason, their opinions are more valid....LOL
The most important point you made, is consequences. The F2P games attract far more trolls and scammers than any other pay model, and all they have to do is make another account if they get caught.
Now watch, somebody will come along and trivialize what I just said, and claim that the amount of trolls and scammers are small and we shouldn't worry about it.......
I don't particularly like the FTP model. I like my computer games to have all parts accessible by everyone.
However it's not 'leeching' to play FTP and not pay. You are not playing the game against the developers will. They designed it so you can play for free.
How much are you paying to post on these forums again?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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That i agree. It is ok to be different and i am never shy from stating unpopular opinions, and i also state them as such, as opposed to some who will try to state their opinions as truth.
For example:
I like F2P MMOs. I don't care why devs develop a game, and only if the game is fun to me. I play MMORPGs as solo games most (but not all) of the time. I think some are good enough SP games. I don't need a virtual world in a MMORPG to have fun.
And of course .. i don't care about "community" in games .. i don't play games to make friends. I have enough friends & family in RL.