I pay to play Dragonrealms. It's better than any MMORPG I've run into, so they get my money, though I do plug into WoW when I want to give the new rides a spin.
The main reason for me is that I can play a character vs a toon.
You know, everyone says that. And I believe that, in most instances, they're even genuinely sincere.
But can you find an MMO that's older than, say, five years--
That does *not* have The Patch That Ruined This Game? NGE, ToA, Lich King, Trammel...it's one thing that players are very, extremely consisitent about. Did the devs really change the game Just To Ruin Our Fun?
Or gamers react really poorly to any change (as player bases), almost without exception?
Or do gamers just cherry-pick an extremely specific (personal) set of Perfect Features that insures their expectation of failure will in fact, always, be met?
I think You're finally getting close IceWhite.....
It's what most People around here never think about or consider....
Has ANYONE thought about the possibility that Societal CHANGE and PROGRESS is going too fast, even too fast for People accustomed to high Tech and that use Computers/Internet to play online games, and that maybe... just maybe ....a portion of this regret and nostalgia is actually shock from "progress overload"?
Personally for me that IS a big part of it. Took me a while to identify what was really bothering but that is it. Real Life, Tech, Internet, Society, changes in our Governments.,... all of it... Life as we know it is changing too fast for it to be healthy for anyone except the very young who don't have all sorts of stuff learned already.
For me it is the desire to play old DAoC again... but not just the game, play WITH the Players again as they were before TOA... back when we still tried to be polite, before we learned that Zerg was always the best way to go, back when yes we did know our enemies and we respected them.
Can't go back to that now can we? You are right Ice, but maybe if Life slowed down a bit on stuff always changing it would allow us the time to adapt and forget. 10 years, even 20, isn't enough time for that for most People.
The boss mob named "Speed of Change" might be the worst mob of them all.
Most of those things are certainly correct (largely related to the ease of producing content for a text-only (or ASCII graphics at best) game.)
But the Roleplay thing goes a bit far. You can't really seriously look modern RPers in the face and say "Sorry you're not really pretending to be your character," because they are. These players take themselves seriously and organize all sorts of events. Maybe they're deprived of certain freedoms (in a visually-rendered game you can't claim your character has a red feather sticking out of his cap unless the developer has specifically added that item to the game,) but they're still role-playing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Can't go back to that now can we? You are right Ice, but maybe if Life slowed down a bit on stuff always changing it would allow us the time to adapt and forget. 10 years, even 20, isn't enough time for that for most People.
The boss mob named "Speed of Change" might be the worst mob of them all.
Or one can just embrace the change and have fun, like me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know, everyone says that. And I believe that, in most instances, they're even genuinely sincere.
But can you find an MMO that's older than, say, five years--
That does *not* have The Patch That Ruined This Game? NGE, ToA, Lich King, Trammel...it's one thing that players are very, extremely consisitent about. Did the devs really change the game Just To Ruin Our Fun?
Or gamers react really poorly to any change (as player bases), almost without exception?
Or do gamers just cherry-pick an extremely specific (personal) set of Perfect Features that insures their expectation of failure will in fact, always, be met?
I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for. With most single player games that's not much of a problem since we can choose not to install updates. I can still play Atari, Nintendo, Sega and arcade games (with emulators of course) as they were when they released. With mmorpg's changes are forced on you. You cannot play the version of the game you enjoyed once it's updated. You have to expect some bitter players.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
With mmorpg's changes are forced on you. You cannot play the version of the game you enjoyed once it's updated. You have to expect some bitter players.
No one forces you to continue to play. And this is no difference than other online games like SC2 which has to maintain the same code-base, and set of rules.
Now you can choose to be bitter over a lot of things (even a restaurant changing their recipe) but personally i find that gaming is so diverse and abundance that it is easy to jump from things i don't like to things i like.
I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for.
Ever read the message board of a game that hasn't added anything new in a good long time?
Remember when SOE had Vanguard in maintenance mode?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by dave6660 I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for.
Ever read the message board of a game that hasn't added anything new in a good long time?Remember when SOE had Vanguard in maintenance mode?
For me, there is a huge difference between added content and changing game mechanics.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I think again the issue isn't change. For me its the lack of change and uniformed game play. There are basically 3 types of MMORPGs... the WoW Clone, the Quest Hub CoX/Neverwinter action combat with heavy instances and the random underfunded indies. Yes there are few other games that have taken a somewhat different route but in the beginning you never went from one MMORPG to the next and feel you are playing the same game.
The Sandbox genre is almost completely undeveloped, quest have become repetitive and predictable menial task for fast and the only advancement and everything that had anything to do with community, challenge, inconvenience or longevity has been removed. I don't think its unreasonable to desire games to be made to recapture some of what's been lost.
Interesting list. We are trying to actually incorporate some of these into our game now. We are very much available for our community and are continually interacting with them.
I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for.
Ever read the message board of a game that hasn't added anything new in a good long time?
Remember when SOE had Vanguard in maintenance mode?
You previously asked whether "gamers react really poorly to any change (as player bases), almost without exception".
Now you're asking me about the reaction to no changes at all.
So you basically want to know why gamers complain period? The same reason a dog licks his privates.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by dave6660 I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for.
Ever read the message board of a game that hasn't added anything new in a good long time?
Remember when SOE had Vanguard in maintenance mode?
For me, there is a huge difference between added content and changing game mechanics.
Yes indeed. New content that doesn't effect the old can be ignored if the player doesn't like it. Changes to mechanics cannot be ignored.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Briansho We've exchanged words for flashy shiny glittery thingys.
I tend to think of it in terms of bandwidth - text can be rich and dense with meaning, but an audio-visual medium can communicate a lot more information per second about your surroundings than reading text.
I find this post curious, seeing as how it comes from an embittered old coder that thinks the consumer base should just continue to purchase whatever steaming pile of crap is shoveled our way by AAA development houses.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Originally posted by Briansho We've exchanged words for flashy shiny glittery thingys.
I tend to think of it in terms of bandwidth - text can be rich and dense with meaning, but an audio-visual medium can communicate a lot more information per second about your surroundings than reading text.
I think of it in terms of fishing. They dangle a shiney lure in front of the gamers face and the gamer bites. Of course they don't notice the big sharp hook that's going to impale their jaw.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I think of it in terms of fishing. They dangle a shiney lure in front of the gamers face and the gamer bites. Of course they don't notice the big sharp hook that's going to impale their jaw.
As opposed to what? If that's your analogy then any interface is just a lure.
Comments
I pay to play Dragonrealms. It's better than any MMORPG I've run into, so they get my money, though I do plug into WoW when I want to give the new rides a spin.
The main reason for me is that I can play a character vs a toon.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
I think You're finally getting close IceWhite.....
It's what most People around here never think about or consider....
Has ANYONE thought about the possibility that Societal CHANGE and PROGRESS is going too fast, even too fast for People accustomed to high Tech and that use Computers/Internet to play online games, and that maybe... just maybe ....a portion of this regret and nostalgia is actually shock from "progress overload"?
Personally for me that IS a big part of it. Took me a while to identify what was really bothering but that is it. Real Life, Tech, Internet, Society, changes in our Governments.,... all of it... Life as we know it is changing too fast for it to be healthy for anyone except the very young who don't have all sorts of stuff learned already.
For me it is the desire to play old DAoC again... but not just the game, play WITH the Players again as they were before TOA... back when we still tried to be polite, before we learned that Zerg was always the best way to go, back when yes we did know our enemies and we respected them.
Can't go back to that now can we? You are right Ice, but maybe if Life slowed down a bit on stuff always changing it would allow us the time to adapt and forget. 10 years, even 20, isn't enough time for that for most People.
The boss mob named "Speed of Change" might be the worst mob of them all.
Most of those things are certainly correct (largely related to the ease of producing content for a text-only (or ASCII graphics at best) game.)
But the Roleplay thing goes a bit far. You can't really seriously look modern RPers in the face and say "Sorry you're not really pretending to be your character," because they are. These players take themselves seriously and organize all sorts of events. Maybe they're deprived of certain freedoms (in a visually-rendered game you can't claim your character has a red feather sticking out of his cap unless the developer has specifically added that item to the game,) but they're still role-playing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Or one can just embrace the change and have fun, like me.
That was more of a knee jerk over - reaction by the player base than anything actually done by CCP.
I don't recall them even pulling anything back, all they did is cease to move forward with any future changes down that road.
Regardless, at the end of the day, there was no harm, no foul, and the games population continued to go upwards in the long run.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't see anything wrong with liking a game the way it is. It's the game you paid for. With most single player games that's not much of a problem since we can choose not to install updates. I can still play Atari, Nintendo, Sega and arcade games (with emulators of course) as they were when they released. With mmorpg's changes are forced on you. You cannot play the version of the game you enjoyed once it's updated. You have to expect some bitter players.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
No one forces you to continue to play. And this is no difference than other online games like SC2 which has to maintain the same code-base, and set of rules.
Now you can choose to be bitter over a lot of things (even a restaurant changing their recipe) but personally i find that gaming is so diverse and abundance that it is easy to jump from things i don't like to things i like.
Ever read the message board of a game that hasn't added anything new in a good long time?
Remember when SOE had Vanguard in maintenance mode?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The Sandbox genre is almost completely undeveloped, quest have become repetitive and predictable menial task for fast and the only advancement and everything that had anything to do with community, challenge, inconvenience or longevity has been removed. I don't think its unreasonable to desire games to be made to recapture some of what's been lost.
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
You previously asked whether "gamers react really poorly to any change (as player bases), almost without exception".
Now you're asking me about the reaction to no changes at all.
So you basically want to know why gamers complain period? The same reason a dog licks his privates.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Yes indeed. New content that doesn't effect the old can be ignored if the player doesn't like it. Changes to mechanics cannot be ignored.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I tend to think of it in terms of bandwidth - text can be rich and dense with meaning, but an audio-visual medium can communicate a lot more information per second about your surroundings than reading text.
I find this post curious, seeing as how it comes from an embittered old coder that thinks the consumer base should just continue to purchase whatever steaming pile of crap is shoveled our way by AAA development houses.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
I think of it in terms of fishing. They dangle a shiney lure in front of the gamers face and the gamer bites. Of course they don't notice the big sharp hook that's going to impale their jaw.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
As opposed to what? If that's your analogy then any interface is just a lure.