I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".
What exactly are you thinking about? is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move. And another question, some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game. So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?
So many conflicting replies in this thread.
My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".
What exactly are you thinking about? is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move. And another question, some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game. So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?
So many conflicting replies in this thread.
My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
A MMO which makes you wait till certain level to have fun is just bad design.
"Wait till lvl 20 the fun will start..no wait till 50 combat gets fun..trust me!!* comments like these doesn't help. Starting levels of any MMO are very crucial and that is when players should be sucked in and not be expected to drag themselves to 50 to enjoy the combat. This is just very weak defense for FFXIV combat.
Only a noob would say that action combat is boring. It's more of a what you make of it. WoW combat had its time. It is time to let go and move on. WoW was made in a time where broadband connection was a luxury and we all were happy with our 32kb/sec download speeds and considered them ultra fast (of course, compared to the 56k dial-ups), WoW IS playable with such a connection, but for that to happen the game has to be a lot less dynamic.
Fast-forward 10 years from that time, and you have 10mbit broadband all over the place including 3G and LTE with super high speed and efficiency. A game like Gw2 puts the standard of new generation MMOs. A game like Planetside and Defiance do as well in their respective genres. Being able to move and hit is not about realism and how "you can not make a strong punch without leg assistance", it's about dynamics and player skill to burst out DPS AND avoid enemy frontal attacks. In modern day action combat MMOs skill actually matters. Not your passive evasion statistics. Not your hit rate on paper, but your own player skill, to get close enough to DPS, without taking damage back or if impossible at least avoid the enemy's more powerful burst.
This, what I just said, opens the door for horizontal progression which, well, most of us enjoy (griefers that like to gank on players 30 levels below them and few item tiers below them aside). No need for gear treadmill needed, just a will to improve your own skill and coordination. Such things like "IMBA" "WTFHAX" "OP" classes are things of the past. If you are good, you should be able to tackle your opponent, without playing the FOTM class for a given game.
So yeah back on topic. To hell with global cooldowns and launch issues for weeks now. FFXIV does not deserve my money. I'll pass. Even though I dislike WoW (for multiple reasons), if given the choice, I'd pick WoW instead of FFXIV anyday
Combat is slow but feels like it has weight. You can be active in it, it's not like... runescape slow. You can still jump and move, just actions are slow.
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Originally posted by Vigg It's not bad, it's just not following the current trend of action combat. This is fine by me, as I don't like action combat in an MMO.
TRUE
Compared to FFXI though it is very much like actio combat. I enjoy the combat, but I do agree with many that the 2.8sec cooldown on most abilities/spells is a bit much. The combat is fluid and being able to move freely and cancel abilities on the move with no animation lock is nice. The spell and combat effects are some of the best.
Only a noob would say that action combat is boring. It's more of a what you make of it. WoW combat had its time. It is time to let go and move on. WoW was made in a time where broadband connection was a luxury and we all were happy with our 32kb/sec download speeds and considered them ultra fast (of course, compared to the 56k dial-ups), WoW IS playable with such a connection, but for that to happen the game has to be a lot less dynamic.
Fast-forward 10 years from that time, and you have 10mbit broadband all over the place including 3G and LTE with super high speed and efficiency. A game like Gw2 puts the standard of new generation MMOs. A game like Planetside and Defiance do as well in their respective genres. Being able to move and hit is not about realism and how "you can not make a strong punch without leg assistance", it's about dynamics and player skill to burst out DPS AND avoid enemy frontal attacks. In modern day action combat MMOs skill actually matters. Not your passive evasion statistics. Not your hit rate on paper, but your own player skill, to get close enough to DPS, without taking damage back or if impossible at least avoid the enemy's more powerful burst.
This, what I just said, opens the door for horizontal progression which, well, most of us enjoy (griefers that like to gank on players 30 levels below them and few item tiers below them aside). No need for gear treadmill needed, just a will to improve your own skill and coordination. Such things like "IMBA" "WTFHAX" "OP" classes are things of the past. If you are good, you should be able to tackle your opponent, without playing the FOTM class for a given game.
So yeah back on topic. To hell with global cooldowns and launch issues for weeks now. FFXIV does not deserve my money. I'll pass. Even though I dislike WoW (for multiple reasons), if given the choice, I'd pick WoW instead of FFXIV anyday
As someone who broke more than 5 keyboards, cursing, swearing and playing DMC on hardest mode unlocked, your action combat in MMOs sux. On other side, I don't have nothing against GW2 combat, but game is too noobish. Standard for new generation? Ok, as long as Justin Bieber is accepted as new generation of music.
About FFXIV gcd, I blame consoles. But once you get used to it, it's not that bad.
Well, it's a Final Fantasy game and teh combat is modeled after Final Fantasy games as to be expected. If you don't like Final Fantasy game combat then you probably won't like this combat because that is what they were going for. Every Final Fantasy numbered game has "turn" based combat, if it doesn't they don't give it a number.
And it nothing like TSW combat, nor does the 2.5 second cooldown stay 2.5 seconds or even apply to all abilities. Something that also offsets the cooldown is that abilities have pretty long cast times compared to instant hitting abilities of other MMOs, this is because interrupts are a big part of the combat as likely will be a big part of PvP.
would rather have turn based combat that 2.5 gdc crap combat
Originally posted by sumdumguy1 Originally posted by stayontarget I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".What exactly are you thinking about? is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move. And another question, some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game. So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?So many conflicting replies in this thread.
My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
Im a 50 healer myself, healing in this game is significantly more thought provoking than playing a dps. There really is very little going on for the DPS.
Healing in this game is well done and the pacing fits well. As a DPS I spend a great deal of time twiddling my fingers
I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".
What exactly are you thinking about? is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move. And another question, some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game. So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?
So many conflicting replies in this thread.
My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
A MMO which makes you wait till certain level to have fun is just bad design.
"Wait till lvl 20 the fun will start..no wait till 50 combat gets fun..trust me!!* comments like these doesn't help. Starting levels of any MMO are very crucial and that is when players should be sucked in and not be expected to drag themselves to 50 to enjoy the combat. This is just very weak defense for FFXIV combat.
Did I say things weren't fun until end game? I said things weren't hard - don't make up stuff and then quote me.
The GCD matters more when you have less options, aka early game. It matters less later because you have more options and you are moving around far more. Honestly, the game ramps up difficulty as early as Brayflox which should take less than a week of casual play to reach.
There are plenty things to enjoy up until then. The writing and sound are wonderful. The story line engaging enough for solid immersion. Environments and crafting is great. It's like you view the game in one lens and one lens only. I feel like you are chronically disappointed.
I'm not an action combat guy, but not really digging the combat so far. It's more lack of skill choices at lower levels than anything else. As a Conjurer, I feel like all I do is spam Stone while hitting the DOT every 18 seconds. I like the game overall so I'll continue to give it a shot.
not as bad as secret world but what I cant handle is it does not target the monsters you have to ,click a view times before it locks on target very stuped the devs of ffxiv are lazy and arrogant.only reason I play it cause their is nothing better out now that's new and I like the ffxiv art and geanre.i would like to play final fantacy XV that looks like a modern game.
tsw is different thenff14!but I play both!why?I love the lore and what is happening in tsw!tsw feel less rewarding combat wise!but the game it self more then make up for it!yes ff14 is better at time other tsw is better.bang for your $the secret world or guild wars 2are better!fun wise and amount of player around?lol it isn't a contest!ff14 .I played ff14 in v1 in October 2010!and it was bad.people that had the game could play free while v2was shaping up.and you know what server were empty.yes it was bad !why?lag lag lag and load time etc everything was bad .it was the same game but at 2frame per second.oh they did change stuff probably a lot .but I bet most v1player never reached first dungeon boss!now?it happen every 90 minute or so!like the DRM is using the is timer instead of hardware internal timer.this cause huge issue if you use hardware timer instead of os timer.because your action is triggered directly on CPU and the DRM detect it later at is level so it think you are hacking .but you aren't .I wish all game maker would put an option asking witch you want to use and mention you what your computer is using this would remove a lot of issue!.because what I saw when the DRM go crazy?you get throttled (bandwith)then s-e disconnect you as soon as their mandatory log off routine is done (about 20 second)the secret world has the same issue .I stopped sending them report long ago since they probably don't even know what the difference is between a hardware timer and an is timer .hell Intel and and over clock test were all banned till further notice because of Microsoft inability to have a timer routine that can keep up with the GPU .CPU etc!ms will probably need to create GPU based software timer thingy.even Intel timer can barely keep up with GPU.if GPU was to find a way to up gddr5 to processor speed (3.4 ghtz)nobody could cope with it!ya in the end I bet and and nvidia will probably be the one creating the fix !till then all over clock competition with and and Intel inside are banned from oc competition.dam this feel lime deja vu!(when ms had issue for 10 years with universal clock)I guess they never learn!then ms wonder why android is stealing ms thunder.lol
Originally posted by potlaki not as bad as secret world but what I cant handle is it does not target the monsters you have to ,click a view times before it locks on target very stuped the devs of ffxiv are lazy and arrogant.only reason I play it cause their is nothing better out now that's new and I like the ffxiv art and geanre.i would like to play final fantacy XV that looks like a modern game.
Uhh, what? Tab targeting should automatically target the closest mob to optimal range (aka max range). That's fine in the open world.
I'm less sure about how it works in dungeons. It should target the #1 marked mob and go consecutively from there. Not sure if it does that considering I'm a healer....
I've just used the enemy list to click target mobs. It's not hard or "unrefined".
Originally posted by potlaki not as bad as secret world but what I cant handle is it does not target the monsters you have to ,click a view times before it locks on target very stuped the devs of ffxiv are lazy and arrogant.only reason I play it cause their is nothing better out now that's new and I like the ffxiv art and geanre.i would like to play final fantacy XV that looks like a modern game.
I assume your playing the PS3 version of the game? You actually have a primary and secondary target, so you target the mob and then click and its your primary target. It actually works very well, particularly when you are a healer, you can have your main tank as the primary target, select another target and once you have cast your ability on that target, it automatically targets back to your primary target, very useful, you just have to get used to it and understand how it works.
Yep had the same issue at first I kept wondering why the hell the stupid game kept switching me back to my first target when I had switched to another I did not notice there was a soft target and hard target system so I was repeatedly getting switch back to my Hard target which was always the wrong enemy I got as my first lock on target by simply hitting X. Now that I know to hit X again once I soft lock a target it actually works quite well. However it is still a mess in Fates etc. they really need to give Summoned followers a lower targeting priority I always get locked on to about 5+ followers in a Fate when I just want to attack the boss so I end up reaching for my mouse and just clicking on the damn thing. The whole point of using the controller is so I can lay back and get comfy having to reach for my mouse defeats the whole purpose.
Originally posted by Vigg It's not bad, it's just not following the current trend of action combat. This is fine by me, as I don't like action combat in an MMO.
Agreed. I hate that trend and wish it would stop. If I want to play fast action combat, I will play an FPS.
Originally posted by benit59 People talk about this game having slow combat and being easy. Yet, Titan PUG'ers keep wiping from not dodging knockback attack. GG.
I am surprised people neglect to mention how 'mushy' combat is. It is not 'crisp' in the slightest.
Leaving aside the pacing which is obviously a design decision, there is stuff that clearly is not. For example I can start moving 2/3 rds to 3/4 qtrs through the cast bar and not interrupt the skill. Really the client should cancel that immediately and inform the server. I think it is a combination of net code, server load and general poor implementation. Where it can be particularly frustrating is moving out of boss AoEs. It is common for players to blame lag, bad computer, their ISP, or even their cat it is quite real. You can be well outside an AoE (as far as it appears on screen) and still get hit.
I play in the EU but I have not had this issue quite so bad playing on US servers in other games. (why are the EU servers located in N America btw?). I believe devs use various clever techniques to make things appear instantaneous at the client. I think the 'system' suffers from jitter end to end (which is essentially variance in lag). This is much harder to compensate for.
The pace of combat is OK the lack of 'crispness' and instant feedback is not so good.
Originally posted by benit59 People talk about this game having slow combat and being easy. Yet, Titan PUG'ers keep wiping from not dodging knockback attack. GG.
Truest post in the thread.
That's partly because when it is telegraphed is not consistent or timely. See previous post.
Comments
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
A MMO which makes you wait till certain level to have fun is just bad design.
"Wait till lvl 20 the fun will start..no wait till 50 combat gets fun..trust me!!* comments like these doesn't help. Starting levels of any MMO are very crucial and that is when players should be sucked in and not be expected to drag themselves to 50 to enjoy the combat. This is just very weak defense for FFXIV combat.
Only a noob would say that action combat is boring. It's more of a what you make of it. WoW combat had its time. It is time to let go and move on. WoW was made in a time where broadband connection was a luxury and we all were happy with our 32kb/sec download speeds and considered them ultra fast (of course, compared to the 56k dial-ups), WoW IS playable with such a connection, but for that to happen the game has to be a lot less dynamic.
Fast-forward 10 years from that time, and you have 10mbit broadband all over the place including 3G and LTE with super high speed and efficiency. A game like Gw2 puts the standard of new generation MMOs. A game like Planetside and Defiance do as well in their respective genres. Being able to move and hit is not about realism and how "you can not make a strong punch without leg assistance", it's about dynamics and player skill to burst out DPS AND avoid enemy frontal attacks. In modern day action combat MMOs skill actually matters. Not your passive evasion statistics. Not your hit rate on paper, but your own player skill, to get close enough to DPS, without taking damage back or if impossible at least avoid the enemy's more powerful burst.
This, what I just said, opens the door for horizontal progression which, well, most of us enjoy (griefers that like to gank on players 30 levels below them and few item tiers below them aside). No need for gear treadmill needed, just a will to improve your own skill and coordination. Such things like "IMBA" "WTFHAX" "OP" classes are things of the past. If you are good, you should be able to tackle your opponent, without playing the FOTM class for a given game.
So yeah back on topic. To hell with global cooldowns and launch issues for weeks now. FFXIV does not deserve my money. I'll pass. Even though I dislike WoW (for multiple reasons), if given the choice, I'd pick WoW instead of FFXIV anyday
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
TRUE
Compared to FFXI though it is very much like actio combat. I enjoy the combat, but I do agree with many that the 2.8sec cooldown on most abilities/spells is a bit much. The combat is fluid and being able to move freely and cancel abilities on the move with no animation lock is nice. The spell and combat effects are some of the best.
Hey look, another one of these threads....*rolls eyes*
Play the game, pointless to listen to other people.
As someone who broke more than 5 keyboards, cursing, swearing and playing DMC on hardest mode unlocked, your action combat in MMOs sux. On other side, I don't have nothing against GW2 combat, but game is too noobish. Standard for new generation? Ok, as long as Justin Bieber is accepted as new generation of music.
About FFXIV gcd, I blame consoles. But once you get used to it, it's not that bad.
would rather have turn based combat that 2.5 gdc crap combat
My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.
Have either of you gotten past the "easy" stuff? Since hitting 50, there are very few battles where I can just sit still and feel the GCD. I'm moving around so much that I'd need to have a full set of instants for me to even notice the GCD.
As a healer, most of sustain toolkit is cast. My damage is 50/50 cast and instant. Fortunately, I do not have to be so careful with my decisions because I have instant cast heals.
For example, I start casting DPS and my tank suddenly gets slammed because he failed to dodge a boss attack (not everything shows a dodge zone). I casted a DoT, but I can pick up my tank with Lustrate. None of the skills that require stacks have a GCD. I also can't consistently do that because I have a finite amount of stacks. Decisions do matter.
A lot of you clearly haven't even broken into the mid-game content let alone the level 50 content. Trust me, with the amount of people that just outright fail and the frustrations with PUGs - if this game was any faster there would be a mass riot about difficulty.
Just because a few of the elite players aren't having a ton of players doesn't mean the game is too slow or easy. They are elite for a reason.
Im a 50 healer myself, healing in this game is significantly more thought provoking than playing a dps. There really is very little going on for the DPS.Healing in this game is well done and the pacing fits well. As a DPS I spend a great deal of time twiddling my fingers
Did I say things weren't fun until end game? I said things weren't hard - don't make up stuff and then quote me.
The GCD matters more when you have less options, aka early game. It matters less later because you have more options and you are moving around far more. Honestly, the game ramps up difficulty as early as Brayflox which should take less than a week of casual play to reach.
There are plenty things to enjoy up until then. The writing and sound are wonderful. The story line engaging enough for solid immersion. Environments and crafting is great. It's like you view the game in one lens and one lens only. I feel like you are chronically disappointed.
what is wrong with TSW combat ? it is an rpg not shooter or action arcade , same as FF
Played the Beta and I kind of like the combat...yes slow as wow but still very fun..
I dident like the rest of the game though ;P
Uhh, what? Tab targeting should automatically target the closest mob to optimal range (aka max range). That's fine in the open world.
I'm less sure about how it works in dungeons. It should target the #1 marked mob and go consecutively from there. Not sure if it does that considering I'm a healer....
I've just used the enemy list to click target mobs. It's not hard or "unrefined".
Yep had the same issue at first I kept wondering why the hell the stupid game kept switching me back to my first target when I had switched to another I did not notice there was a soft target and hard target system so I was repeatedly getting switch back to my Hard target which was always the wrong enemy I got as my first lock on target by simply hitting X. Now that I know to hit X again once I soft lock a target it actually works quite well. However it is still a mess in Fates etc. they really need to give Summoned followers a lower targeting priority I always get locked on to about 5+ followers in a Fate when I just want to attack the boss so I end up reaching for my mouse and just clicking on the damn thing. The whole point of using the controller is so I can lay back and get comfy having to reach for my mouse defeats the whole purpose.
Agreed. I hate that trend and wish it would stop. If I want to play fast action combat, I will play an FPS.
Truest post in the thread.
TSW bad?
Lol, I am finding a lot of people suck at TSW combat.... It isn't bad.
I am surprised people neglect to mention how 'mushy' combat is. It is not 'crisp' in the slightest.
Leaving aside the pacing which is obviously a design decision, there is stuff that clearly is not. For example I can start moving 2/3 rds to 3/4 qtrs through the cast bar and not interrupt the skill. Really the client should cancel that immediately and inform the server. I think it is a combination of net code, server load and general poor implementation. Where it can be particularly frustrating is moving out of boss AoEs. It is common for players to blame lag, bad computer, their ISP, or even their cat it is quite real. You can be well outside an AoE (as far as it appears on screen) and still get hit.
I play in the EU but I have not had this issue quite so bad playing on US servers in other games. (why are the EU servers located in N America btw?). I believe devs use various clever techniques to make things appear instantaneous at the client. I think the 'system' suffers from jitter end to end (which is essentially variance in lag). This is much harder to compensate for.
The pace of combat is OK the lack of 'crispness' and instant feedback is not so good.
That's partly because when it is telegraphed is not consistent or timely. See previous post.