First, it is guildhest, as from behest. Although I do find the idea of guildheists intriguing. How much fun would it be to raid and wreck the guild hall of your most beloved rival. muahahaha.
The only thing I can suggest is mark things with numbers and keep on reminding people what numbers mean if they don't kill them in that order. One thing I found in Aion was that while numbers were surprisingly hit or miss, everyone seemed to universally understand what a big skull overs a mob's head meant, stab it until it stops moving. This game needs a skull mark I think.
I also agree that some kind of training on how to read the aggro meters would be wonderful. It is amazing how many people are completely missing these.
I am a GLD/CNJ and will be an eventual PLD. So many times, when I do PUGs, i find that DD's just start spamming their skills and turning the whole thing into a hot mess. They won't target my target and get pissy when they're told about hate management.
I would really like to see one of the first guildheists be class-specific training on what you need to do differently in a group versus solo.
When you solo, your job is simple///kill it...as quickly as humanly possible. So DPS just wacks away...because its literally a race...who runs out of HP first dies. But in a group setting, you need to pace your damage to keep the hate on the tank. You need to target the tanks target...you do need to adjust your playstyle.
But we seem to be getting a lot of players who just do not understand this concept. Either they're just FF fans who've never played an MMO with trinity before or are new to MMO's in general. I don't know. But if no one explains it to you, you will never learn.
I try to explain it, and i am polite about it...but i either get a favorable thank you and they instantly get better or they get pissed, rude, etc.
If SE wants the Duty Finder to cludge strangers together, then I really feel they should take steps to educate players on the workings of their classes in a group setting.
Am I the only one getting this a lot?
Bit of topic: But what you wrote is excactly what has made me a more solo player. I use to group ALLOT (pre-wow) then WoW introduced me to something completly new when going for PUG's and that is that the majority of players just didn't know how to play. Like you I tried explaining things, but when the rude/pissed or what ever additude overruled the actuall thank you's was when I sort of had enough of PUG's.
I aint guild material, never know when I have time to play and I am kind of old school in that because I feel I should contribute to the guild in some way.
I also fear that a large majority doesn't want to be educated by a game or even really learn how you could play differently then just letting the game lead you. Let me be clear of being lead by the game is fun for a person then so be it, but it would be nice if people who enter a MMORPG understand there is more to it then the gameplay mindset of single or multiplayer games.
So I have to ask, and this is 100% curiosity. If you don't play MMOs with guilds and don't group. Why the fascination with MMOs?
I see your number of posts. There are a lot of great single player games out there, arguably, far more great single player games than MMOs right now.
What is it that draws you to MMOs if you don't like the other players in them?
It's not that I don't like others ingame or group with them. I still do that, but I am more the socializing crafter/trader. Speak to people to trade or even auction in today's MMO's. Still sometimes achieve a small well known as a crafter. And overall players make the world come alive. I don't need to /friend any person who is playing the same game. PEr haps just a few. I treath a MMORPG like a virtual world either scifi or fantasy.
I just wished there would be more interaction between players when grouped. I occasionaly still try to chat when grouped. To put it in numbers I would say 90% of Pug experiance couldn't even get a hi or hello. Don't even start with stratigic message's because before you might have spoken out your first sentence someone already got himself killed due to inpatients. But that 10% that do take their time, enjoy most of what a MMO or MMORPG has to offer, will want to have conversation or talk about stratigics so everyone know's his role and place will still remain my reason to find those likeminded gamers who like to go beyond just playing a game and immers themself into that virtual world.
There for I enjoy MMORPG's or even MMO's but perhaps not in the way you might.
Makes sense, as long as you are interacting. Similar dissatisfaction with the community as I am having actually. I have a small guild I play with that offsets it.
Question: Do you think smaller server size with no cross server dungeon finder would enhance community interaction? Or has our gaming society as a whole gone completely the other direction: to a Call of Duty/Halo type of experience where people are just names you never meet again and interactions all last less than an hour?
I try to tag them, but I am a bit slow at it still. Getting faster,,but I will get impatient dips that just grabs something while I am setting it up.
now the healer has to heal two people instead of one...and soon they have aggro...
it just defends into he'll from there.
Also, a lo of people that I've spoken to did not know that the white bars in each party members icon represent the amount of hate they currently hold. When they finally see it, many of the, are like, "OMG! That's awesome, I didn't knowmwhat that was!"
I think an Ideal solo training quest for DPS players would be to have them team up with a lvl 50 NPC tank. They both fight a boss..tank holds hate and DPS does damage. The party icons would be explained, reticulate about the meter for hate. The monster would be much higher than the DPS...if he draws to much hate, he dies. Sle purpose of the quest is to explain the party tools and how to pace your DPS.
Couldn't agree more. Its amazing how many people in game haven't the slightest concept of how a dungeon party works. Perhaps its the sudden popularity of games that offer no roles and zerg mechanics, perhaps its just PS3 players in their first mmorpg...no clue.
They really should have tutorials, or required quests, that teach DPS, tanks, and healers how to properly play their class.
Teach tanks how to mark mobs, how to evenly apply agro to all in the pack so heals doesn't take a mob, how to recover a bad pull, how to interrupt, and mob priority (which isn't easy to learn your first time) Also mob positioning. Mob positioning is a big one in this game, not simply pointing the front away from DPS but making sure the sides and back are accessible and that dps wont pull more mobs attacking from behind. Lastly how to LOS range mobs.
Healer...well whatever healers need to do, really the only role I never play in a mmorpg.
DPS needs to know when to start attacking, who is pacing the dungeon run (the tank not you) how to help the tank recovering from a bad pull, how to follow really simple mob markers and if none are up how to assist the target the tank is attacking. Differences between range DPS and melee and what they should do. Also DPS often have unique things they must do in boss fights, either activating something, killing adds effectively, noticing when adds spawn...they are the utility in strange boss mechanics when healers cant stop healing and tanks must keep the boss occupied.
This could easily be done on a basic level with an NPC party and manufactured situations, descriptions on how you react ect. Hell it would even be smart to force one of these before each dungeon that offers a new mechanic, as a lot of the early dungeons seem to offer some new tactic that they need to grasp.
I think the guildhests do a decent job of training pugs. The reason I say this, is that the third guildhest is literally a test in following instructions. You will fail the third hest repeatedly if DPS burn the target down, the big boss target is not meant to be killed, but needs to be subdued by an item after it's below half health.
I thought this was brilliant, because it made people stop and think for a moment. Plus it gets them in the mindset of listening to their party members who were paying attention. Nothing grabs a loose cannons attention more then Duty Failed across their screen lol.
As for keeping hate on myself (me being a Warrior now), I haven't had many issues when DPS fly off the handle and go to different targets. It can be tricky, but I just have to cycle my taunts on different targets. If one breaks from me, I use my stun that isn't tied to the global cooldown and then I use a enmity building attack. I'm actually thinking the stun is not on the GCD for this very reason. To give you time to grab a stray mob basically.
Also in my experience, if all the dps are on my target, they don't have to do any real hate management. I say this because a DPS hasn't been able to tear a mob away from me yet if we are both focusing on it. Although this could change later with the quality of players or higher level abilities/gear.
Comments
First, it is guildhest, as from behest. Although I do find the idea of guildheists intriguing. How much fun would it be to raid and wreck the guild hall of your most beloved rival. muahahaha.
The only thing I can suggest is mark things with numbers and keep on reminding people what numbers mean if they don't kill them in that order. One thing I found in Aion was that while numbers were surprisingly hit or miss, everyone seemed to universally understand what a big skull overs a mob's head meant, stab it until it stops moving. This game needs a skull mark I think.
I also agree that some kind of training on how to read the aggro meters would be wonderful. It is amazing how many people are completely missing these.
All die, so die well.
Makes sense, as long as you are interacting. Similar dissatisfaction with the community as I am having actually. I have a small guild I play with that offsets it.
Question: Do you think smaller server size with no cross server dungeon finder would enhance community interaction? Or has our gaming society as a whole gone completely the other direction: to a Call of Duty/Halo type of experience where people are just names you never meet again and interactions all last less than an hour?
Couldn't agree more. Its amazing how many people in game haven't the slightest concept of how a dungeon party works. Perhaps its the sudden popularity of games that offer no roles and zerg mechanics, perhaps its just PS3 players in their first mmorpg...no clue.
They really should have tutorials, or required quests, that teach DPS, tanks, and healers how to properly play their class.
Teach tanks how to mark mobs, how to evenly apply agro to all in the pack so heals doesn't take a mob, how to recover a bad pull, how to interrupt, and mob priority (which isn't easy to learn your first time) Also mob positioning. Mob positioning is a big one in this game, not simply pointing the front away from DPS but making sure the sides and back are accessible and that dps wont pull more mobs attacking from behind. Lastly how to LOS range mobs.
Healer...well whatever healers need to do, really the only role I never play in a mmorpg.
DPS needs to know when to start attacking, who is pacing the dungeon run (the tank not you) how to help the tank recovering from a bad pull, how to follow really simple mob markers and if none are up how to assist the target the tank is attacking. Differences between range DPS and melee and what they should do. Also DPS often have unique things they must do in boss fights, either activating something, killing adds effectively, noticing when adds spawn...they are the utility in strange boss mechanics when healers cant stop healing and tanks must keep the boss occupied.
This could easily be done on a basic level with an NPC party and manufactured situations, descriptions on how you react ect. Hell it would even be smart to force one of these before each dungeon that offers a new mechanic, as a lot of the early dungeons seem to offer some new tactic that they need to grasp.
I think the guildhests do a decent job of training pugs. The reason I say this, is that the third guildhest is literally a test in following instructions. You will fail the third hest repeatedly if DPS burn the target down, the big boss target is not meant to be killed, but needs to be subdued by an item after it's below half health.
I thought this was brilliant, because it made people stop and think for a moment. Plus it gets them in the mindset of listening to their party members who were paying attention. Nothing grabs a loose cannons attention more then Duty Failed across their screen lol.
As for keeping hate on myself (me being a Warrior now), I haven't had many issues when DPS fly off the handle and go to different targets. It can be tricky, but I just have to cycle my taunts on different targets. If one breaks from me, I use my stun that isn't tied to the global cooldown and then I use a enmity building attack. I'm actually thinking the stun is not on the GCD for this very reason. To give you time to grab a stray mob basically.
Also in my experience, if all the dps are on my target, they don't have to do any real hate management. I say this because a DPS hasn't been able to tear a mob away from me yet if we are both focusing on it. Although this could change later with the quality of players or higher level abilities/gear.