How is the economy ? And some questions about SWG.

klloud

I'm eagerly waiting the digital sales to be resumed and while this don't happen, I'm reading a lot about the game. One of the things that got my attention was the crafting system, that some people are saying is totally fun and worth doing. However, it seems that crafted items will never be as good as raid gear and when players get to level 50 with their main job, they take a crafting class right away and level it up pretty fast. Some people are complaining that the economy is not working very well as a result. Anyone can craft and it's not that hard to take your class to level 50, what makes a lot of people hit level cap with the disciples of hand/land. This way, there's too much offer for the demand and people are undercutting prices all the time, even when it becomes unprofitable. 

 

Then, there's the materia system. I don't know very well how it works. It seems that the more you use an item, the more spirit-bonded it will be with your character and when it hits 100%, you are given the option of melding it into materia, that you can insert on slots that equipments have. However, the bonuses given by those materia seems to not make much difference, and, usually, they are more needed for raiding players, who some people claim to be a minority among the community. So, my doubt is: the crafting system, even though it's fun, will be enough to maintain the game's economy?

 

Also, I would like to know from you some thing related to Star Wars Galaxies. I read all the time that SWG had the best crafting system of all times and, until now, there's no game with a crafting system so deep. Why was it so great and how can we compare it with ARR crafting?

Shauneepeak

Your worries are sadly quite true right now I have never seen such idiotic underccutting in my life, an example I have a pre-relic Longarm's bow on the board for 75k another person 76k and a third 76k then a fourth person comes along and undercuts us all and places theirs on the board for 50K causing the bow to crash by 25k+ because more people shove theirs on the board going by the 50k price. I got on today and the bow is now around 17k which is roughly the cost to make it but good news Champion's lance went from around 30k back up to 50k+. The big issue are the Gold sellers who are beyond obvious to point out they constantly undercut everyone by ridiculous amount to simply get more gold and sell it off ruining it for everyone else.

 

Honestly I have been making most of my money by simply melding materia on to peoples lvl 50+ gear I have been getting around 10-30k a meld which ain't bad for simply hitting a button once to confirm the meld lol.

 

Hopefully in future patches more crafting based armour and weapons will be introduced many of the higher end crafted gear requires a unique base item such as a broken version of the weapon/armour I feel crafting could be saved if they added these to some later dungeons/raids.

 

But still compared to simply doing PVE for money Crafting and Gathering are still the way to go.

 

Also it will vary from server to server but this is simply how things currently are on mine.

Foomerang

Economy is screwed up right now because the game is brand new. Pricing has not been established. Most people have no idea what is rare/good or not. Crafting materials are more expensive than finished items because people are more concerned with leveling up crafting than making that perfect gear set.

Bottom line, the crafting is interesting and rewarding. The high quality items you can make are better than quest rewards, rep rewards, and dungeon loot, period.

There are eight crafting classes and all of them are heavily dependent on each other. SO being some magical all in one self sufficient crafter is going to take a lot of work. You'll need to take every crafting class to 50 as well as mining and botany for your materials. Same goes for melding materia into gear since specific item slots can only be melded by specific crafting classes.

Speaking of materia, you are going to be quite busy crafting gear for the sole purpose of spirit bond. Crafted gear gets used to 100% spirit bond, bloken down into materia, then a crafter melds it into a new piece of gear. When new raids come out, the cycle will continue. SO in essence, the gear treadmill spikes the crafting community which in turn keeps the game economy running.

I played a dedicated crafter for 8 years in SWG. In that game, you had a lot of stats on resources that made a difference in your ability to affect stats on the finished product. the resources shifted constantly which made it unique.

In ffxiv, you either make a normal item, or an HQ item. There is no inbetween. The crafting game is basically trying to maximize your chances at making an HQ item. This id done through managing a resource pool, upping quality at opportune times during the crafting, keeping an eye on the condition and durability of your item and knowing when to not do anything for a step to maximize your chances.

I think both systems are a lot of fun. I feel SWG had the best system because the customization was so involved.

Foomerang

I also think it is important to note that as a dedicated crafter, you have a lot of choices as to what kind of crafter you want to be and what niche you will fill.

You can choose to be a custom order filler making the best possible weapons and armor.
You can be a melder.
You can make HQ components for other crafting classes.
You can sell standard gear for spirit grinders.
In the future , you will be able to make housing decor and furniture.

This diversity allows for crafters to change things up and focus on new areas of supply and demand. I feel this is a great thing to have because as a dedicated crafter myself, I like being able to approach it in new ways to keep things fresh.

gessekai332

lvl 50 BSM here. People thinking the economy is bad are dead wrong.

 

Economy is still developing, but I am enjoying it very much. Just because other people are having trouble making money, it doesnt mean you will. Ive seen people try to make a mad dash to max level thinking they can make a killing from max level items only to be severely disappointed. If you play this way, you will not understand the market, or what are the trends and where are the openings, and you will not succeed. I have made a lot of money off of lower level items as well as high level  items simply because other crafters think they are a waste of time and completely overlook that pocket of customers. Sure, undercutting happens and sometimes items boom or flop. this will only hurt you if you are massively dependent on one type of item. Crafting in this game is also about connections and socialization. if you make good impressions you can pick up repeat customers or people who refer you to their friends to you and so fourth. Since crafting is highly interdependent between classes it helps to make friends that work in other trades that can cut you a discount or make stuff for you for free if you help them out as well.

 

Crafting isn't a get rich instantly scheme. it requires effort. Sure you can make enough to just get by pretty easily but if you want to make money, you need to work for it. If you truly enjoy crafting you will like this game but if you just want to make a quick buck then make sure you look somewhere else.

 

gessekai332

on the topic of materia:

I cant comment on the necessity of it for battle classes, but for crafting classes it is extremely important. you simply cannot craft or HQ high level gears with a decent success rate without the added bonuses of materia.

Foomerang

---

Originally posted by gessekai332
on the topic of materia:I cant comment on the necessity of it for battle classes, but for crafting classes it is extremely important. you simply cannot craft or HQ high level gears with a decent success rate without the added bonuses of materia.

---

truth. that said , I have gotten an HQ proc off of 1% haha

echolynfan

Being a vet of SWG I can safely say that FF ARR has the best crafting system since SWG and with housing coming up and future updates it will only get better.

Don't pay any attention to all the troll doomsayers - this game is fun...alive and will be around for quite a while. 

 

Kyleran

Read some of the other longevity threads on the forums, you'll see some very real concerns about the economy and crafting over all that appear to be written by people with some knowledge of what they are talking about.

There appears to be some valid concerns that some folks in this thread are oblivious to.

Foomerang

---

Originally posted by Kyleran
Read some of the other longevity threads on the forums, you'll see some very real concerns about the economy and crafting over all that appear to be written by people with some knowledge of what they are talking about.There appears to be some valid concerns that some folks in this thread are oblivious to.

---

yes, ive read those threads. they also have a huge asterisk because they admit the games economy is in its infancy and is not an accurate representation of its typical day to day. But people love to ignore that and cry doom. even though the very people they are quoting add this disclaimer.

svann

People have so much money that you can buy stuff from a vendor thats 10' away from the market board, put it up for sale at 10x the vendor price, and it sells in under an hour.

klloud

Oh man, I spent so much time typing here and when I clicked on Preview post, it was all bugged and almost all the text was gone. I had to go out and made a similar response on the mobile, but when I clicked on post, the page refreshed and I lost everything hahahah. Seems like I'm out of luck...

 

I read an interesting article here on this site that talks about the game's economy. It's interesting and I recommend you all to read it too. The comments section clarified me about a lot of things. First of all, what you said here on this thread and what is proposed there too, is that the game's economy is at the earliest stages. We can't picture how it will develop right now, because everyone is just concerned about leveling up and deciding what they are going to do on the future and how they will play. Apparently, a common problem on servers is the lack of gil circulating. The currency is being more dried than created, what creates a deflated economy. The article suggests that Square Enix expected this and even planned it to happen. A game called Anarchy Online seeems to have started just like this. If the economy gets inflated, it's too hard or almost impossible to fix it after it's established. The recent update that fixed the repair costs suggests that SE knows what they are doing, and they are going to implement tweaks and little adjustments. They are not unexperienced and this is not their first mmo. Let's just wait and see what happens.

 

You can read the mentioned article on:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/feature/7766/The-FFXIV-Economy-Issue-Gil-Sinks-Gil-Fountains.html/page/1

Akulas

Gather your own mats if you don't want to lose money but there is a problem of an item being a price to make but it being under valued on the market because people keep posting lower and lower prices. I haven't worried about the materia system yet but noticed some of my gear was 100% spiritbound. I wonder if I should do anything with it? It's a fun crafting system but basicly the market has crashed right now. I didn't mention about the gatherers hack teleporting inside the rock. That can't be good for the economy either. Give it a bit of time to level out and hopefully there isn't too much problems in the future.

Electro057

Originally posted by klloud

Oh man, I spent so much time typing here and when I clicked on Preview post, it was all bugged and almost all the text was gone. I had to go out and made a similar response on the mobile, but when I clicked on post, the page refreshed and I lost everything hahahah. Seems like I'm out of luck...

 

I read an interesting article here on this site that talks about the game's economy. It's interesting and I recommend you all to read it too. The comments section clarified me about a lot of things. First of all, what you said here on this thread and what is proposed there too, is that the game's economy is at the earliest stages. We can't picture how it will develop right now, because everyone is just concerned about leveling up and deciding what they are going to do on the future and how they will play. Apparently, a common problem on servers is the lack of gil circulating. The currency is being more dried than created, what creates a deflated economy. The article suggests that Square Enix expected this and even planned it to happen. A game called Anarchy Online seeems to have started just like this. If the economy gets inflated, it's too hard or almost impossible to fix it after it's established. The recent update that fixed the repair costs suggests that SE knows what they are doing, and they are going to implement tweaks and little adjustments. They are not unexperienced and this is not their first mmo. Let's just wait and see what happens.

 

You can read the mentioned article on:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/feature/7766/The-FFXIV-Economy-Issue-Gil-Sinks-Gil-Fountains.html/page/1

Anarchy Online has an odd sort of player run economy that pretty much only favours the vets, to the point many basic items and necessities are practically inaccessible to new players. As an old Anarchy Online player I can tell you it's pretty much always been this way, and the fact that one of the classes and it's specialty the Grid only made it worst is shameful at best. (Damn Fixxies....The Fixer is a class that excels at trade because of it's ability to teleport.)

Kajidourden

Typical new mmo economy problems.  I would say as far as the economy is concerned....only time will really tell.  Could be that once the REAL value of items, etc is found out that prices and such will adjust as needed.  Could be that it will be completely trashed, no way to tell right now.

Betaguy

Originally posted by klloud

I'm eagerly waiting the digital sales to be resumed and while this don't happen, I'm reading a lot about the game. One of the things that got my attention was the crafting system, that some people are saying is totally fun and worth doing. However, it seems that crafted items will never be as good as raid gear and when players get to level 50 with their main job, they take a crafting class right away and level it up pretty fast. Some people are complaining that the economy is not working very well as a result. Anyone can craft and it's not that hard to take your class to level 50, what makes a lot of people hit level cap with the disciples of hand/land. This way, there's too much offer for the demand and people are undercutting prices all the time, even when it becomes unprofitable. 

 

Then, there's the materia system. I don't know very well how it works. It seems that the more you use an item, the more spirit-bonded it will be with your character and when it hits 100%, you are given the option of melding it into materia, that you can insert on slots that equipments have. However, the bonuses given by those materia seems to not make much difference, and, usually, they are more needed for raiding players, who some people claim to be a minority among the community. So, my doubt is: the crafting system, even though it's fun, will be enough to maintain the game's economy?

 

Also, I would like to know from you some thing related to Star Wars Galaxies. I read all the time that SWG had the best crafting system of all times and, until now, there's no game with a crafting system so deep. Why was it so great and how can we compare it with ARR crafting?

You cannot compare the crafting systems, SWG is a completely different beast, not only how you craft but how you acquire the resources to craft with. Only thing that I have seen up and coming is from The Repopulation, more advance than SWG's crafting but many similarities.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by klloud

I'm eagerly waiting the digital sales to be resumed and while this don't happen, I'm reading a lot about the game. One of the things that got my attention was the crafting system, that some people are saying is totally fun and worth doing. However, it seems that crafted items will never be as good as raid gear and when players get to level 50 with their main job, they take a crafting class right away and level it up pretty fast. Some people are complaining that the economy is not working very well as a result. Anyone can craft and it's not that hard to take your class to level 50, what makes a lot of people hit level cap with the disciples of hand/land. This way, there's too much offer for the demand and people are undercutting prices all the time, even when it becomes unprofitable. 

Then, there's the materia system. I don't know very well how it works. It seems that the more you use an item, the more spirit-bonded it will be with your character and when it hits 100%, you are given the option of melding it into materia, that you can insert on slots that equipments have. However, the bonuses given by those materia seems to not make much difference, and, usually, they are more needed for raiding players, who some people claim to be a minority among the community. So, my doubt is: the crafting system, even though it's fun, will be enough to maintain the game's economy?

Also, I would like to know from you some thing related to Star Wars Galaxies. I read all the time that SWG had the best crafting system of all times and, until now, there's no game with a crafting system so deep. Why was it so great and how can we compare it with ARR crafting?

Crafting is totally fun and worth doing. I don't know how it is at lvl50 but from many sources it seems crafted gear and very well compare to the next-to-best equipment in the game, and are needed to complete the best weapon quests for example.

I'm lvl26 Armorer and have doubled my gil every 4 days by playing it. So I don't agree that you can't make money in this game outside being lvl50. However I see undercutting every day and to me it is clear that items are overvalued and don't sell, thus the need to undercut. As long as the prices are too high then there will be undercutting.

I haven't seen undercutting making items unprofitable. There's profit practically everywhere. HOWEVER I am very sure that as the game matures there will be less profit making opportunities and competition will increase. SE will have to keep stimulating the game economy continuously to avoid the economy not working as it should.

Gear comes for the most part from crafters so I think its clear that they are a crucial part of keeping the economy running in this game, unlike every other MMORPG where money doesn't matter and NPC's supply you with everything. You can clear instances for gear but you can hardly keep yourself equipped by playing only instances.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by Kyleran
Read some of the other longevity threads on the forums, you'll see some very real concerns about the economy and crafting over all that appear to be written by people with some knowledge of what they are talking about.

There appears to be some valid concerns that some folks in this thread are oblivious to.

People with knowledge about economy tend to understand that economies change over time, are in constant motion, and require different stimuli to keep healthy depending on the trends.

There are always "concerns" to be had regarding sustainability when an economy depends on the people playing, not just NPC's supplying you with everything you need. That's the reality for you.

Solid_Altair

I'm new to MMOs and reading this thread was quite enlighting. I didn't expect the economy in MMOs to be this deep. I expected deep, but not this deep. This makes me excited to keep playing the game.

However, I gotta say that Mining  proved to be more boring than I expected. I'm Mining 11 (GLD 21). Than I got to Armorer and quickly leveled to 6. Armorer seemed much better... it looked more profitable and felt far less boring. The mining I had done helped, but it didn't really seemed worth it. I coulda just bought the material, instead. Sure, it would cost some gil, but not much and I think it would save me a lot of time, which could be spent doing something else, like earning XP and gil in a more fun way.

Bottom line is: is Mining actually bad? Does it pay off later on, like getting materials that you can't buy from NPCs?

echolynfan

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

I'm new to MMOs and reading this thread was quite enlighting. I didn't expect the economy in MMOs to be this deep. I expected deep, but not this deep. This makes me excited to keep playing the game.

However, I gotta say that Mining  proved to be more boring than I expected. I'm Mining 11 (GLD 21). Than I got to Armorer and quickly leveled to 6. Armorer seemed much better... it looked more profitable and felt far less boring. The mining I had done helped, but it didn't really seemed worth it. I coulda just bought the material, instead. Sure, it would cost some gil, but not much and I think it would save me a lot of time, which could be spent doing something else, like earning XP and gil in a more fun way.

Bottom line is: is Mining actually bad? Does it pay off later on, like getting materials that you can't buy from NPCs?

If you want to make money in an MMO and especially one with a complex crafting system where there is dependency on other classes for items - then do the stuff that people find "boring". I make a killing just selling the mats because people don't like to spend the time gathering - I kinda like it

Tissmogi

Originally posted by klloud

I'm eagerly waiting the digital sales to be resumed and while this don't happen, I'm reading a lot about the game. One of the things that got my attention was the crafting system, that some people are saying is totally fun and worth doing. However, it seems that crafted items will never be as good as raid gear and when players get to level 50 with their main job, they take a crafting class right away and level it up pretty fast. Some people are complaining that the economy is not working very well as a result. Anyone can craft and it's not that hard to take your class to level 50, what makes a lot of people hit level cap with the disciples of hand/land. This way, there's too much offer for the demand and people are undercutting prices all the time, even when it becomes unprofitable. 

Best gear right now is for example the penta melded Vanya Set (for healers and Casters) and that is crafted. The only set that beats it is the Allagan Set which drops in Coils of Bahamut and only very few can access it and even less have any chance of getting gear from it.

The set costs around 2 million per piece plus another 500k ish per piece for materia.

The same is true for jewelery, Rose Gold Earrings and Rings are way better than drops or token gear.

Then, there's the materia system. I don't know very well how it works. It seems that the more you use an item, the more spirit-bonded it will be with your character and when it hits 100%, you are given the option of melding it into materia, that you can insert on slots that equipments have. However, the bonuses given by those materia seems to not make much difference, and, usually, they are more needed for raiding players, who some people claim to be a minority among the community. So, my doubt is: the crafting system, even though it's fun, will be enough to maintain the game's economy?

 Materia makes a big difference in gear and i get about 10 melding request a day from people outside the LS so i would not say it's only for a few.

Also, I would like to know from you some thing related to Star Wars Galaxies. I read all the time that SWG had the best crafting system of all times and, until now, there's no game with a crafting system so deep. Why was it so great and how can we compare it with ARR crafting?

ARR is not as deep and complexe as SWG. The reason SWG is regarded the best crafting system was the almost unlimited combinations of raw materials that could be used to change the attributes of crafted items. The raw material had attributes too and it spawned with a set amount of random stats so there was never the same ever!

 

echolynfan

Originally posted by Tissmogi

Originally posted by klloud

I'm eagerly waiting the digital sales to be resumed and while this don't happen, I'm reading a lot about the game. One of the things that got my attention was the crafting system, that some people are saying is totally fun and worth doing. However, it seems that crafted items will never be as good as raid gear and when players get to level 50 with their main job, they take a crafting class right away and level it up pretty fast. Some people are complaining that the economy is not working very well as a result. Anyone can craft and it's not that hard to take your class to level 50, what makes a lot of people hit level cap with the disciples of hand/land. This way, there's too much offer for the demand and people are undercutting prices all the time, even when it becomes unprofitable. 

Best gear right now is for example the penta melded Vanya Set (for healers and Casters) and that is crafted. The only set that beats it is the Allagan Set which drops in Coils of Bahamut and only very few can access it and even less have any chance of getting gear from it.

The set costs around 2 million per piece plus another 500k ish per piece for materia.

The same is true for jewelery, Rose Gold Earrings and Rings are way better than drops or token gear.

Then, there's the materia system. I don't know very well how it works. It seems that the more you use an item, the more spirit-bonded it will be with your character and when it hits 100%, you are given the option of melding it into materia, that you can insert on slots that equipments have. However, the bonuses given by those materia seems to not make much difference, and, usually, they are more needed for raiding players, who some people claim to be a minority among the community. So, my doubt is: the crafting system, even though it's fun, will be enough to maintain the game's economy?

 Materia makes a big difference in gear and i get about 10 melding request a day from people outside the LS so i would not say it's only for a few.

Also, I would like to know from you some thing related to Star Wars Galaxies. I read all the time that SWG had the best crafting system of all times and, until now, there's no game with a crafting system so deep. Why was it so great and how can we compare it with ARR crafting?

ARR is not as deep and complexe as SWG. The reason SWG is regarded the best crafting system was the almost unlimited combinations of raw materials that could be used to change the attributes of crafted items. The raw material had attributes too and it spawned with a set amount of random stats so there was never the same ever!

 

Agreed - whoever designed the crafting system in SWG was BRILLIANT and FF ARR's crafting system is deep and enjoyable in it's own right but there will most likely never be another crafting system like SWG...sadly.