Guilds were typically for helping each other out on quests or PvP, especially with the holy trinity in place.
It was far easier to find a tank or healer in your guild, plus you got someone you trusted to do the job
With so many solo friendly MMOs now, and no holy trinity, there's no need for guilds
I don't consider that better. I consider that "well I have no choice but to be forced to join a guild. That is only reason I want to join, to use people"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
With so many solo friendly MMOs now, and no holy trinity, there's no need for guilds
Good. I don't want to "need" a guild. If people want to socialize and form a guild, do so out of their own free will, not because of being forced by the game to do so.
I gave up on guilds for the most part.. It used to be one of the strongest features to any social game.. Games used to promote grouping, and guild raiding.. Guilds used to raid.. and I mean RAID.. Raiding has now become the micro grouping within a guild.. Only so many SLOTS are filled and everyone else is told to go home, or wait in the lobby.. I despise exclusive raiding that puts stress on the guild of who plays and who doesn't.. Guilds are nothing like they used to be.. OH sure the primary raid group and leaders of the guild will deny all that I just wrote.. but we know what the truth is..
I'm curious as to how the "good" guilds (friendly, active, fun to chat/group with, drama-free, not horribly elitist, etc) go about making themselves known, so to speak. If they're interested in recruiting new members, are the official game forums generally the go-to? Or do they actively look for people in-game?
Our guild was actually formed back in '09 because we wanted the family feeling the OP described. I cannot speak for the other guilds, but we primarily use official game forums when applicable (we-are a one-game guild). We are happy when we find members in-game that are looking for a guild like us, however that is not as common. We also use fan sites when official game forums are not up and running yet.
Thanks, Zarriya. I'm firing up RIFT soon for the first time and will keep an eye on the forums there when I get the guild itch. Good reason to get involved on the official forums too, something I've not always made a priority in the past. Cheers!
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Single player games, I mean mmos don't need guilds. Even though you can still make guilds devs pretty much destroyed all the social aspects of gaming.
Yeah as if a gamecompany or developers would actually develop games people don't want to play.
I truly hope one day some people will learn that gamecompany's work due to demand. Don't mistake us forum posters with the majority of people in these games. It's a mistake often made reading these forums. People often mistake seeing what they personaly like is something everyone must like and for some people it's just to hard to grasp some people or even the majority of player enjoy's the games they are today.
As for guilds poster: Dibdabs, explained very well my own thoughts as in what happend.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Single player games, I mean mmos don't need guilds. Even though you can still make guilds devs pretty much destroyed all the social aspects of gaming.
Yeah as if a gamecompany or developers would actually develop games people don't want to play.
I truly hope one day some people will learn that gamecompany's work due to demand. Don't mistake us forum posters with the majority of people in these games. It's a mistake often made reading these forums. People often mistake seeing what they personaly like is something everyone must like and for some people it's just to hard to grasp some people or even the majority of player enjoy's the games they are today.
As for guilds poster: Dibdabs, explained very well my own thoughts as in what happend.
LoL, well I think you are being a bit presumptuous, assuming that players don't want Guild/Group focused games or discounting the people that post on forums.
I agree that basically the major Game Companies will continue to produce "Mass Consumption" MMOs are long as there is a horde of solo/casual players that pay for them. It is kind of like 50 years ago when McDonalds took casual dining and turned it into one of the largest richest companies known to man but they didn't do it by making amazingly good food. They designed a product that caters to the mass, they aren't trying to win awards for amazing food , just push out a steady stream of "meh" quality stuff.
As Tech advances and the Indie scene grows the MMO players will have more niche options and won't need to eat "meh" stuff anymore and can find an MMO that caters more to their play style, something closer to the original MMOs and less like McDonalds.
Developers are building games for soloists and easy mode dungeon finder pugs. There is almost no game progression value in being in a guild these days.
Guild as a concept were mostly destroyed when newbie players would make a guild as the earliest opportunity and then spam random, silent invites to complete strangers.
This has been happening since guilds were introduced to MMOs. This isn't a new concept, and certainly isn't the reason guilds as a whole aren't what they used to be. It's a good recipe for disaster for individual guilds to form that way, however. I've never seen a strong guild formed by mass-inviting anyone and everyone by spamming.
Guilds aren't as strong as they used to be for one reason and one reason only: The influx of the casual player. MMOs used to be inhabited mainly by hardcore players who didn't hop from game to game, mainly because there weren't a lot of other options out there aside from the game you were playing. Nowadays, players don't stay with the same game for as long, and therefore, guilds aren't as important as they once were. This is particularly true since games are now designed to try to offer enough pre-made content to keep players sticking around for 6-12 months at a time. With all that player churn, it's difficult to sustain any consistency for guilds.
Originally posted by hyllstarter Since most MMO's are now single player games and most people dont play a MMo for more then 90 days anymore. That might have something to do with it. Funny thing is I am in a guild we just dont have a game to play right now.
Why would that be a problem? The whole guild can move to another game, or even a guild can play multiple games.
How often do entire guilds decide as a whole to jump from one game to another? Or even form another chapter in another game? Not as often as you'd think. And the people that aren't playing for more than a few months generally aren't there long enough to establish ties to a lot of other guildies. So when they leave, they aren't trying to bring the guild with them. They simply...leave. No goodbyes, nothing.
Originally posted by hyllstarter Since most MMO's are now single player games and most people dont play a MMo for more then 90 days anymore. That might have something to do with it. Funny thing is I am in a guild we just dont have a game to play right now.
Why would that be a problem? The whole guild can move to another game, or even a guild can play multiple games.
How often do entire guilds decide as a whole to jump from one game to another? Or even form another chapter in another game? Not as often as you'd think. And the people that aren't playing for more than a few months generally aren't there long enough to establish ties to a lot of other guildies. So when they leave, they aren't trying to bring the guild with them. They simply...leave. No goodbyes, nothing.
So it is a problem. A pretty big one.
No one says everyone has to move. And for those who are not longer enough to establish ties, why does anyone have to care if they move along?
i think Ragnarok Online is one of the game that make a full use of the guild,
back then, i would defend my guild in Ragnarok Online to death, as if it was my own family, and the crest itself make us proud by carrying them around at the side of our names
and we used to have a recruitment limits and to get into 1 guild wasn't as easy as in today's community
i had to show my skill for the Guild leaders and actually have to friend him for a while in order to get accepted into the guild
nowadays, even in GW2, FFXIV ( which i am currently playing for both ) i dont give too much attention to the guild anymore as no one know each other or even work together, they just went on their own separate ways
and i dont have the feel of needing to improve the guild as no one does, hence i feel like as if i am not even in a real guild
i think the guild that still have that feel of knowing each other thing still exist somewhere in the MMO, but probably you could count it with your fingers, and for me the guilds that were in MMO since early 2000ish to 2010 are the best moment of it
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Single player games, I mean mmos don't need guilds. Even though you can still make guilds devs pretty much destroyed all the social aspects of gaming.
Yeah as if a gamecompany or developers would actually develop games people don't want to play.
I truly hope one day some people will learn that gamecompany's work due to demand. Don't mistake us forum posters with the majority of people in these games. It's a mistake often made reading these forums. People often mistake seeing what they personaly like is something everyone must like and for some people it's just to hard to grasp some people or even the majority of player enjoy's the games they are today.
As for guilds poster: Dibdabs, explained very well my own thoughts as in what happend.
LoL, well I think you are being a bit presumptuous, assuming that players don't want Guild/Group focused games or discounting the people that post on forums.
I agree that basically the major Game Companies will continue to produce "Mass Consumption" MMOs are long as there is a horde of solo/casual players that pay for them. It is kind of like 50 years ago when McDonalds took casual dining and turned it into one of the largest richest companies known to man but they didn't do it by making amazingly good food. They designed a product that caters to the mass, they aren't trying to win awards for amazing food , just push out a steady stream of "meh" quality stuff.
As Tech advances and the Indie scene grows the MMO players will have more niche options and won't need to eat "meh" stuff anymore and can find an MMO that caters more to their play style, something closer to the original MMOs and less like McDonalds.
Sorry never assumed players don't want guild/group focussed games, might be misunderstood somehow.
Guilds have had an interesting MMO history, online games have always catered for them, particularly MMO's. As MMOs became more of a corporate venture they were still seen as essential to MMOs, unlike elements like roleplaying. Guilds were seen as free hype by gaming companies, they created interest in a MMO, got their players into the MMO, they were seen as a boon.
But other changes in MMO's worked against guilds. The increasingly casual nature of the player base has been mentioned. The importance of bringing in an individual player has gone down. In a P2P MMO every guild member you brought in was a box and monthly fee. With the advent of F2P they are just one more player who may buy something or maybe they won't.
One of the original strengths of guilds was in the areas of grouping and crafting. Well you only need to group for about 3% or less of a MMOs content these days and you don't need to craft or buy crafted items.
They must still perform their hype function as far as gaming companies are concerned. But with the huge coverage of social media if a guild does not register there I am not sure they are seen as having much impact.
Guilds are a cornerstone of long term play in a MMO. But few MMOs are now built with the idea that a player will be playing after a few months, so I can only see their importance diminishing.
When mmorpgs just started, player base was young. Young-ish, at least. I was a teenager, didn't like the people that were surrounding me (like, high school), wanted to speak with others, wanted to have relationships - and had time for that relationships, being a teenager. I was sitting in games through the nights, was talking, forming connections, making friends...
Now I'm older, I have family, friends, and so on. I'm surrounded by people I like. I have no time and no desire whatsoever to spend a lot of time with guild or form any kinds of relationships with them. Simply not interested.
The answer: on average, player base became older, less "subculture", more adjusted, with a lot less need for friends and relationships online. Thus, people are perfectly content without forming them.
I do not mean as if they disappeared. Rather, what happened to those close knit large or small guilds where each player knew one another. In years past I feel humble to know that I belonged to two very good guilds. But since I left them 3 years ago I have not found anything like them.
My last couple of guilds have been horrendous. In rift my guildies were only in it for the bonus benefits. No one really talked to each other, worked together for common goals. Or actually try to help improve the guild. A guild will have raidchat or vent. But no one ever logs on.
Something is missing. Did mmorpg players change that much? Did the F2P format help with the selfish resonance I see in many of the players today?
Once, a guild was a thing of pride. You worked together to achieve big accomplishments that no single player could do. Everyone in a sense was like a extended family member. You shared, fought, and did things together. All with purpose! Do those types of guilds exist? Did they disappear? I am currently playing Aion, my hopes is to find that perfect guild again.
How many of you are in guilds and have seen guilding detriorate?
My hope is we as players change back to the team oriented guilds. Where friendships last and the guild lasts longer.
MMO's have evolved and guilds followed suit.
Thats really the short answer to your first question. But it depends on your perspective as to whether the evolution was a positive change or not.
We are currently in an era of instant gratification gameplay focused on singular gain rather than shared experiences. Guilds on some games are treated as disposable and as such so are the people who join. With that in mind, many guilds form and simply exist for the perks and not necessarily to socialize based upon predetermined special interests. Communications and downtimes are more streamlined now than they were in a not too distant past and this has given rise to a percieved degeneration of guild social aspects.
There are still guilds that have what you want. You just have to actively seek them out through the static noise as they are more hidden from view than ever. But if a person does find one, they have to be prepared to put forth just as much effort and time as the next person in the guild to form lasting cohesive bonds. Otherwise, there is no reason to bother.
As for myself, I lament about the same things as you when it comes to guilds. Its been almost 5 years since I was part of a good guild; spanning 4 different MMO's in that timeframe.
Why?
Because I don't have time for it anymore. Or at least I tell myself that. "I just want to play the damn game" is what I tell myself. And what do you know.... most big titles cater to my selfish mindset now. Damn them.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Single player games, I mean mmos don't need guilds. Even though you can still make guilds devs pretty much destroyed all the social aspects of gaming.
Guilds were typically for helping each other out on quests or PvP, especially with the holy trinity in place.
It was far easier to find a tank or healer in your guild, plus you got someone you trusted to do the job
With so many solo friendly MMOs now, and no holy trinity, there's no need for guilds
I don't consider that better. I consider that "well I have no choice but to be forced to join a guild. That is only reason I want to join, to use people"
How are you forced?
Your one of those players that buys a PvP game then whines about being forced to PvP aren't you.
How is it using people?
A player creates a tank and wants to be a tank, so how are you using them by inviting them to a group to tank for them?
No, your argument is a tired one, that has been debunked over and over again, you aren't forced to do anything.
I always find it funny (and a bit sad) when posters cry out about the 'old fashion guilds' but never actually try to create one for themselves.
Don't like the current guilds? Make one that suits you yourself.
This isn't a hard logic to follow but I guess some people just don't want to put in the 'effort'. Ironic isn't it?
This ^
Same for those who also post about no one ever talking in x game, or doing x instance, or grouping for x.
I even have alot of friends irl who do this as well, they will complain and complain but never do anything to contribute to grouping, socializing, making a Guild or Guild activities for one they've joined.
I am going to take a guess and say alot of the Guild leadership from the past across most games are burned out from player self-entitlement and complaining. It really saps the fun out of a game when you have to deal with player drama, and complaints with little incentive other than making others happy.
Guilds need to reward active leadership to keep high quality leaders active through the hailstorm of bulls__t they have to deal with lol.
Final thought, I do think Guilds need some work in MMOs, the functionality that is. As of right now they are really nothing more than a private chat room with roster that has some data, and guild symbol.
I do not mean as if they disappeared. Rather, what happened to those close knit large or small guilds where each player knew one another. In years past I feel humble to know that I belonged to two very good guilds. But since I left them 3 years ago I have not found anything like them.
Something is missing. Did mmorpg players change that much? Did the F2P format help with the selfish resonance I see in many of the players today?
Once, a guild was a thing of pride. You worked together to achieve big accomplishments that no single player could do. Everyone in a sense was like a extended family member. You shared, fought, and did things together. All with purpose! Do those types of guilds exist? Did they disappear? I am currently playing Aion, my hopes is to find that perfect guild again.
How many of you are in guilds and have seen guilding detriorate?
My hope is we as players change back to the team oriented guilds. Where friendships last and the guild lasts longer.
I'm with you. Like you, I've only had a real 'guild feeling' in two, and those were not even called guilds (L2: clan & LotRo: kinship). Sadly, the L2 clan was dissolved when (after 5 years since launch) the CL quited L2 and the one who took over kinda fucked things up big-time (hail the orc Craylon, where ever he's MMOing now)). LotRo is a different story. The kinship is still there and has expanded it's borders to other MMOs and grown way too big. Like L2, the old core crew of that kinsip left and new peeps took over, fucking things up there as well. The old peeps of LotRo? Those left for games I didn't like so I left them.
And change of players..? Well, sadly the main MMO community has changed (or we did not). A lot of MMOs are now more single-player online games, where in the pas the immersion of party-play was more important. And that's where the difference starts... When you're in a party a lot, it's best to that with players you know. And when you know players well, you're quicker to form a guild and keep partying with them. Modern day MMOs lack that because of the single-player nature they give and use the dungeon finders for those (few) instances you 'gotta do'.
I always find it funny (and a bit sad) when posters cry out about the 'old fashion guilds' but never actually try to create one for themselves.
Don't like the current guilds? Make one that suits you yourself.
This isn't a hard logic to follow but I guess some people just don't want to put in the 'effort'. Ironic isn't it?
Have you actually asked those posters if they have tried doing those things? If you have then I apologize.
Have you thought of some people might not have enough time to commit to guildleadership or even more honost some might just not be leader material? Yet those same people might just want to join a nice guild with likeminded people.
Sometimes I just give up, meaning trying to chat in groups, no responces back even a "hi" seems allot of trouble for the majority of groups I entered. So yes I do speak or atleast attempt to make a conversations, but if about 80 to 90% of those groups are not responding eventually you give up or hope to find that 10% that actually socialize MMORPG style.
So if you want to use logic please try to think abit more openminded.
There for it's perfectly alright if people like OP complain about guild due to things you might not have thought of.
I would really understand your response towards people who complain and are able to play 24/7 or even 8 hours a day, then I am with you. But as said we have to look at this alittle more open minded.
Comments
I don't consider that better. I consider that "well I have no choice but to be forced to join a guild. That is only reason I want to join, to use people"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Good. I don't want to "need" a guild. If people want to socialize and form a guild, do so out of their own free will, not because of being forced by the game to do so.
Thanks, Zarriya. I'm firing up RIFT soon for the first time and will keep an eye on the forums there when I get the guild itch. Good reason to get involved on the official forums too, something I've not always made a priority in the past. Cheers!
Yeah as if a gamecompany or developers would actually develop games people don't want to play.
I truly hope one day some people will learn that gamecompany's work due to demand. Don't mistake us forum posters with the majority of people in these games. It's a mistake often made reading these forums. People often mistake seeing what they personaly like is something everyone must like and for some people it's just to hard to grasp some people or even the majority of player enjoy's the games they are today.
As for guilds poster: Dibdabs, explained very well my own thoughts as in what happend.
LoL, well I think you are being a bit presumptuous, assuming that players don't want Guild/Group focused games or discounting the people that post on forums.
I agree that basically the major Game Companies will continue to produce "Mass Consumption" MMOs are long as there is a horde of solo/casual players that pay for them. It is kind of like 50 years ago when McDonalds took casual dining and turned it into one of the largest richest companies known to man but they didn't do it by making amazingly good food. They designed a product that caters to the mass, they aren't trying to win awards for amazing food , just push out a steady stream of "meh" quality stuff.
As Tech advances and the Indie scene grows the MMO players will have more niche options and won't need to eat "meh" stuff anymore and can find an MMO that caters more to their play style, something closer to the original MMOs and less like McDonalds.
This has been happening since guilds were introduced to MMOs. This isn't a new concept, and certainly isn't the reason guilds as a whole aren't what they used to be. It's a good recipe for disaster for individual guilds to form that way, however. I've never seen a strong guild formed by mass-inviting anyone and everyone by spamming.
Guilds aren't as strong as they used to be for one reason and one reason only: The influx of the casual player. MMOs used to be inhabited mainly by hardcore players who didn't hop from game to game, mainly because there weren't a lot of other options out there aside from the game you were playing. Nowadays, players don't stay with the same game for as long, and therefore, guilds aren't as important as they once were. This is particularly true since games are now designed to try to offer enough pre-made content to keep players sticking around for 6-12 months at a time. With all that player churn, it's difficult to sustain any consistency for guilds.
How often do entire guilds decide as a whole to jump from one game to another? Or even form another chapter in another game? Not as often as you'd think. And the people that aren't playing for more than a few months generally aren't there long enough to establish ties to a lot of other guildies. So when they leave, they aren't trying to bring the guild with them. They simply...leave. No goodbyes, nothing.
So it is a problem. A pretty big one.
No one says everyone has to move. And for those who are not longer enough to establish ties, why does anyone have to care if they move along?
Time have changed,
i think Ragnarok Online is one of the game that make a full use of the guild,
back then, i would defend my guild in Ragnarok Online to death, as if it was my own family, and the crest itself make us proud by carrying them around at the side of our names
and we used to have a recruitment limits and to get into 1 guild wasn't as easy as in today's community
i had to show my skill for the Guild leaders and actually have to friend him for a while in order to get accepted into the guild
nowadays, even in GW2, FFXIV ( which i am currently playing for both ) i dont give too much attention to the guild anymore as no one know each other or even work together, they just went on their own separate ways
and i dont have the feel of needing to improve the guild as no one does, hence i feel like as if i am not even in a real guild
i think the guild that still have that feel of knowing each other thing still exist somewhere in the MMO, but probably you could count it with your fingers, and for me the guilds that were in MMO since early 2000ish to 2010 are the best moment of it
So What Now?
Sorry never assumed players don't want guild/group focussed games, might be misunderstood somehow.
Guilds have had an interesting MMO history, online games have always catered for them, particularly MMO's. As MMOs became more of a corporate venture they were still seen as essential to MMOs, unlike elements like roleplaying. Guilds were seen as free hype by gaming companies, they created interest in a MMO, got their players into the MMO, they were seen as a boon.
But other changes in MMO's worked against guilds. The increasingly casual nature of the player base has been mentioned. The importance of bringing in an individual player has gone down. In a P2P MMO every guild member you brought in was a box and monthly fee. With the advent of F2P they are just one more player who may buy something or maybe they won't.
One of the original strengths of guilds was in the areas of grouping and crafting. Well you only need to group for about 3% or less of a MMOs content these days and you don't need to craft or buy crafted items.
They must still perform their hype function as far as gaming companies are concerned. But with the huge coverage of social media if a guild does not register there I am not sure they are seen as having much impact.
Guilds are a cornerstone of long term play in a MMO. But few MMOs are now built with the idea that a player will be playing after a few months, so I can only see their importance diminishing.
When mmorpgs just started, player base was young. Young-ish, at least. I was a teenager, didn't like the people that were surrounding me (like, high school), wanted to speak with others, wanted to have relationships - and had time for that relationships, being a teenager. I was sitting in games through the nights, was talking, forming connections, making friends...
Now I'm older, I have family, friends, and so on. I'm surrounded by people I like. I have no time and no desire whatsoever to spend a lot of time with guild or form any kinds of relationships with them. Simply not interested.
The answer: on average, player base became older, less "subculture", more adjusted, with a lot less need for friends and relationships online. Thus, people are perfectly content without forming them.
MMO's have evolved and guilds followed suit.
Thats really the short answer to your first question. But it depends on your perspective as to whether the evolution was a positive change or not.
We are currently in an era of instant gratification gameplay focused on singular gain rather than shared experiences. Guilds on some games are treated as disposable and as such so are the people who join. With that in mind, many guilds form and simply exist for the perks and not necessarily to socialize based upon predetermined special interests. Communications and downtimes are more streamlined now than they were in a not too distant past and this has given rise to a percieved degeneration of guild social aspects.
There are still guilds that have what you want. You just have to actively seek them out through the static noise as they are more hidden from view than ever. But if a person does find one, they have to be prepared to put forth just as much effort and time as the next person in the guild to form lasting cohesive bonds. Otherwise, there is no reason to bother.
As for myself, I lament about the same things as you when it comes to guilds. Its been almost 5 years since I was part of a good guild; spanning 4 different MMO's in that timeframe.
Why?
Because I don't have time for it anymore. Or at least I tell myself that. "I just want to play the damn game" is what I tell myself. And what do you know.... most big titles cater to my selfish mindset now. Damn them.
This pritty much, unfortuently
I always find it funny (and a bit sad) when posters cry out about the 'old fashion guilds' but never actually try to create one for themselves.
Don't like the current guilds? Make one that suits you yourself.
This isn't a hard logic to follow but I guess some people just don't want to put in the 'effort'. Ironic isn't it?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
How are you forced?
Your one of those players that buys a PvP game then whines about being forced to PvP aren't you.
How is it using people?
A player creates a tank and wants to be a tank, so how are you using them by inviting them to a group to tank for them?
No, your argument is a tired one, that has been debunked over and over again, you aren't forced to do anything.
Don't like it, play another game.....
Yeh. Good advice.
That is why i play solo-able MMOs that I don't have to socialize or need a guild.
Yup, that is exactly what I do as well.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
This ^
Same for those who also post about no one ever talking in x game, or doing x instance, or grouping for x.
I even have alot of friends irl who do this as well, they will complain and complain but never do anything to contribute to grouping, socializing, making a Guild or Guild activities for one they've joined.
I am going to take a guess and say alot of the Guild leadership from the past across most games are burned out from player self-entitlement and complaining. It really saps the fun out of a game when you have to deal with player drama, and complaints with little incentive other than making others happy.
Guilds need to reward active leadership to keep high quality leaders active through the hailstorm of bulls__t they have to deal with lol.
Final thought, I do think Guilds need some work in MMOs, the functionality that is. As of right now they are really nothing more than a private chat room with roster that has some data, and guild symbol.
I'm with you. Like you, I've only had a real 'guild feeling' in two, and those were not even called guilds (L2: clan & LotRo: kinship). Sadly, the L2 clan was dissolved when (after 5 years since launch) the CL quited L2 and the one who took over kinda fucked things up big-time (hail the orc Craylon, where ever he's MMOing now)). LotRo is a different story. The kinship is still there and has expanded it's borders to other MMOs and grown way too big. Like L2, the old core crew of that kinsip left and new peeps took over, fucking things up there as well. The old peeps of LotRo? Those left for games I didn't like so I left them.
And change of players..? Well, sadly the main MMO community has changed (or we did not). A lot of MMOs are now more single-player online games, where in the pas the immersion of party-play was more important. And that's where the difference starts... When you're in a party a lot, it's best to that with players you know. And when you know players well, you're quicker to form a guild and keep partying with them. Modern day MMOs lack that because of the single-player nature they give and use the dungeon finders for those (few) instances you 'gotta do'.
Have you actually asked those posters if they have tried doing those things? If you have then I apologize.
Have you thought of some people might not have enough time to commit to guildleadership or even more honost some might just not be leader material? Yet those same people might just want to join a nice guild with likeminded people.
Sometimes I just give up, meaning trying to chat in groups, no responces back even a "hi" seems allot of trouble for the majority of groups I entered. So yes I do speak or atleast attempt to make a conversations, but if about 80 to 90% of those groups are not responding eventually you give up or hope to find that 10% that actually socialize MMORPG style.
So if you want to use logic please try to think abit more openminded.
There for it's perfectly alright if people like OP complain about guild due to things you might not have thought of.
I would really understand your response towards people who complain and are able to play 24/7 or even 8 hours a day, then I am with you. But as said we have to look at this alittle more open minded.
You can't recreate the absence of options.