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Yet another build advice request

TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
in Hardware

Hi, guys.  I am writing to ask for your advice and assistance/criticism of my build effort.

While I lurk here and on some well-respected hardware forums and am familiar with changing drives, expansion cards and memory modules, this will be my first build-from-scratch project.

What I want:
  • A system that will play games and run mainstream productivity apps with good performance and high quality (or better) graphics.
  • I play MMOs and single-player RPGs.
  • I do not play FPS or any hardcore/competitive gaming.

What I do NOT need: 

  • Mouse, keyboard, headset, OS license and monitor (I have an Asus PB278Q 27" 2560x1440 IPS monitor, but barely enough graphics power to use it currently.)
  • I do not want to overclock; in fact, I am seeking some cost-savings by choosing non-OC components.

My proposed build based on a roughly $1000 budget:

Questions:

  • Is anything blatantly wrong or out of place here?
  • I know this is not leading edge stuff, but is it good enough to meet my goals?  It is a considerable upgrade from my current rig.
  • This case comes with 4x120mm fans installed, but three more open fan slots.  Are the pre-installed fans adequate to this build or should I get more?
Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531

    There's nothing flagrantly wrong with your build.  A few tweaks, though:

    First, that's too much to pay for that power supply, especially when you can get a better one for cheaper:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119

    It's not a big difference, either on price or performance.

    Don't plan on running that memory at 2400 MHz, as that's a huge overclock.  But for that price, go ahead and get it.  You probably could run it at 1866 MHz at 1.5 V and with somewhat reduced memory latency timings (e.g., 9-10-10-27).

    New Egg won't even say what the price on the SSD is, though from the sort by price, I'm guessing it's $110.  For that price, you could get a good MLC drive and not have to worry about whether the first TLC SSDs will have problems from the TLC NAND flash.  For example:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249024

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820248017

    Four 120 mm fans is plenty of airflow unless you're doing something outlandish (e.g., high end video cards in CrossFire/SLI) or find a creative way to sabotage them, such as blocking the air vents.

  • grndzrogrndzro Member UncommonPosts: 1,163
    I would go with WD over Seagate anyday
  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There's nothing flagrantly wrong with your build.  A few tweaks, though:

    First, that's too much to pay for that power supply, especially when you can get a better one for cheaper:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119

    It's not a big difference, either on price or performance.

    Don't plan on running that memory at 2400 MHz, as that's a huge overclock.  But for that price, go ahead and get it.  You probably could run it at 1866 MHz at 1.5 V and with somewhat reduced memory latency timings (e.g., 9-10-10-27).

    New Egg won't even say what the price on the SSD is, though from the sort by price, I'm guessing it's $110.  For that price, you could get a good MLC drive and not have to worry about whether the first TLC SSDs will have problems from the TLC NAND flash.  For example:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249024

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820248017

    Four 120 mm fans is plenty of airflow unless you're doing something outlandish (e.g., high end video cards in CrossFire/SLI) or find a creative way to sabotage them, such as blocking the air vents.

    Many thanks, Quizz.  Much respect for your feedback and all the help you provide folks here.  :)

    I will trade-out the Rosewill PSU for the Seasonic model on my list.  Its rated higher and cheaper.  I was laboring under the noobish impression that maybe it was good synergy to have the PSU and case made by the same group.  While I think Rosewill Capstone is pretty good, the Seasonic is exceptional with same nominal wattage and modular connectivity.

    I bought the Samsung 840 EVO for another project for $99.99.  I had the Plextor 128GB on my short list, but I did not know it had surpassed the Samsung 840 as the go-to SSD.  I think the price is pretty much a wash, but I will study that issue more.

    Thanks again.

     

  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by grndzro
    I would go with WD over Seagate anyday

    Thanks.

    That is a long-standing holy war on its own scale.  I plan just to use the 2TB drive for raw storage.  I think I can fit Windows, Office, Adobe and one or two games on the 120GB SSD without too much worry.

    Knowing I do not plan to install apps on it, do you think WD Caviar Green is adequate or would you go Blue/Black?

     

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531
    Originally posted by TigsKC
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There's nothing flagrantly wrong with your build.  A few tweaks, though:

    First, that's too much to pay for that power supply, especially when you can get a better one for cheaper:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119

    It's not a big difference, either on price or performance.

    Don't plan on running that memory at 2400 MHz, as that's a huge overclock.  But for that price, go ahead and get it.  You probably could run it at 1866 MHz at 1.5 V and with somewhat reduced memory latency timings (e.g., 9-10-10-27).

    New Egg won't even say what the price on the SSD is, though from the sort by price, I'm guessing it's $110.  For that price, you could get a good MLC drive and not have to worry about whether the first TLC SSDs will have problems from the TLC NAND flash.  For example:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249024

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820248017

    Four 120 mm fans is plenty of airflow unless you're doing something outlandish (e.g., high end video cards in CrossFire/SLI) or find a creative way to sabotage them, such as blocking the air vents.

    Many thanks, Quizz.  Much respect for your feedback and all the help you provide folks here.  :)

    I will trade-out the Rosewill PSU for the Seasonic model on my list.  Its rated higher and cheaper.  I was laboring under the noobish impression that maybe it was good synergy to have the PSU ad case made by the same group.  While I think Rosewill Capstone is pretty good, the Seasonic is exceptional with same nominal wattage and modular connectivity.

    I bought the Samsung 840 EVO for another project for $99.99.  I had the Plextor 128GB on my short list, but I did not know it had surpassed the Samsung 840 as the go-to SSD.  I think the price is pretty much a wash, but I will study that issue more.

    Thanks again.

    The Samsung 840 EVO is hardly a bad SSD.  But among good SSDs, the performance difference doesn't matter, as you'll never see it outside of synthetic benchmarks and some corner cases that no one really cares about.  Rather, a purchase decision should be based on price, capacity, and reliability.

     It's on reliability that the TLC SSDs would give me pause.  It will probably be fine, but it's plausible that a few years from now as they get some wear on them, TLC SSDs will have problems that MLC SSDs don't.  We don't know, as using the lower quality TLC NAND flash in an SSD had never been done until Samsung did it.  Even several months later in a hotly competitive industry, no one else in the industry is willing to use TLC NAND flash in an SSD, even though it lets you get a given capacity at 2/3 the cost of production of normal MLC NAND flash.

    The history of SSDs is replete with examples of bleeding-edge products ending up horribly unreliable.  A lot of early adopters got burned.  Again, the Samsung 840 EVO will probably be fine.  But I'd regard it as a bigger risk than the others that I linked, which have standard MLC NAND flash together with established controllers from Marvell and LAMD, respectively.

    It's on that basis that I'd regard the 840 EVO as a budget product.  It's not a bad product.  But if you can get an older MLC SSD for the same price, I would.  If the 840 EVO were $20 cheaper than the competition, then sure, go ahead and grab it.

    For what it's worth, TLC NAND flash itself isn't new.  It's been around for a long time, and if you buy a cheap USB flash drive, it's likely what you get inside.  What's new is using it in an SSD, which has much greater reliability requirements than a simple USB flash drive.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    WD Green are infuriatingly slow if you plan on using it for any sort of regular basis.

    They are the energy saving line, so they tend to go to sleep early, and spin up really slowly when they go to wake.

    They are fine drives though, if you are more concerned with power or speed, then they make great drives. You pay $5 extra for that power savings, and for the drive to spin up really really slowly to save on more power.

    If your just looking for a cheap drive to use on a semi-regular basis though, get the Blue line and save that $5 difference.

    All that being said, there is no meaningful difference between WD, Seagate, Toshiba, and Hitachi as far as regular consumer HDDs go.

  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by TigsKC
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There's nothing flagrantly wrong with your build.  A few tweaks, though:

    First, that's too much to pay for that power supply, especially when you can get a better one for cheaper:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119

    It's not a big difference, either on price or performance.

    Don't plan on running that memory at 2400 MHz, as that's a huge overclock.  But for that price, go ahead and get it.  You probably could run it at 1866 MHz at 1.5 V and with somewhat reduced memory latency timings (e.g., 9-10-10-27).

    New Egg won't even say what the price on the SSD is, though from the sort by price, I'm guessing it's $110.  For that price, you could get a good MLC drive and not have to worry about whether the first TLC SSDs will have problems from the TLC NAND flash.  For example:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249024

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820248017

    Four 120 mm fans is plenty of airflow unless you're doing something outlandish (e.g., high end video cards in CrossFire/SLI) or find a creative way to sabotage them, such as blocking the air vents.

    Many thanks, Quizz.  Much respect for your feedback and all the help you provide folks here.  :)

    I will trade-out the Rosewill PSU for the Seasonic model on my list.  Its rated higher and cheaper.  I was laboring under the noobish impression that maybe it was good synergy to have the PSU ad case made by the same group.  While I think Rosewill Capstone is pretty good, the Seasonic is exceptional with same nominal wattage and modular connectivity.

    I bought the Samsung 840 EVO for another project for $99.99.  I had the Plextor 128GB on my short list, but I did not know it had surpassed the Samsung 840 as the go-to SSD.  I think the price is pretty much a wash, but I will study that issue more.

    Thanks again.

    The Samsung 840 EVO is hardly a bad SSD.  But among good SSDs, the performance difference doesn't matter, as you'll never see it outside of synthetic benchmarks and some corner cases that no one really cares about.  Rather, a purchase decision should be based on price, capacity, and reliability.

     It's on reliability that the TLC SSDs would give me pause.  It will probably be fine, but it's plausible that a few years from now as they get some wear on them, TLC SSDs will have problems that MLC SSDs don't.  We don't know, as using the lower quality TLC NAND flash in an SSD had never been done until Samsung did it.  Even several months later in a hotly competitive industry, no one else in the industry is willing to use TLC NAND flash in an SSD, even though it lets you get a given capacity at 2/3 the cost of production of normal MLC NAND flash.

    The history of SSDs is replete with examples of bleeding-edge products ending up horribly unreliable.  A lot of early adopters got burned.  Again, the Samsung 840 EVO will probably be fine.  But I'd regard it as a bigger risk than the others that I linked, which have standard MLC NAND flash together with established controllers from Marvell and LAMD, respectively.

    It's on that basis that I'd regard the 840 EVO as a budget product.  It's not a bad product.  But if you can get an older MLC SSD for the same price, I would.  If the 840 EVO were $20 cheaper than the competition, then sure, go ahead and grab it.

    For what it's worth, TLC NAND flash itself isn't new.  It's been around for a long time, and if you buy a cheap USB flash drive, it's likely what you get inside.  What's new is using it in an SSD, which has much greater reliability requirements than a simple USB flash drive.

    Thanks for saving me a Googling session on the difference.  I will look for the MLC SSDs.

    In terms of pricing, I have not sone any comparison shopping or sale hunting.  For right now, I am still just looking at the "best fit" for what I want.  I might end up at the local MicroCenter for most of this stuff.

  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    WD Green are infuriatingly slow if you plan on using it for any sort of regular basis.

    They are the energy saving line, so they tend to go to sleep early, and spin up really slowly when they go to wake.

    They are fine drives though, if you are more concerned with power or speed, then they make great drives. You pay $5 extra for that power savings, and for the drive to spin up really really slowly to save on more power.

    If your just looking for a cheap drive to use on a semi-regular basis though, get the Blue line and save that $5 difference.

    All that being said, there is no meaningful difference between WD, Seagate, Toshiba, and Hitachi as far as regular consumer HDDs go.

    Probably leaning to the Blue variant then.  Thanks, Ridelynn.  I trust your judgment and likewise want thank you for your service to this forum.

    As for HDD holy wars, a lot of that goes back decades.  Old biases die hard.

     

     

  • caremuchlesscaremuchless Member Posts: 603
    Looks like you went here http://www.logicalincrements.com/

    image

  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by caremuchless
    Looks like you went here http://www.logicalincrements.com/

    I wish.  At first glance, that site looks very promising.  My list came from reading pro and amateur reviews and build discussions at www.overclock.net, www.tomshardware.com, www.newegg.com, www.amazon.com and the like.  But, I am bookmarking this baby.  Thanks!

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,414
    I would avoid Rosewill PSU. Its not worth it getting burned on a PSU. Rosewill is more of a hit or miss type brand. You will either get garbage or a quality product. The case is good as all Rosewill cases are fantastic. I would lean towards Corsair, Enermax, and Antec PSUs. I also like PC Power and Cooling, they are apart of OCZ and are usually the ones that cost several hundred or are branded as PC Power and Cooling. You will probably want the several hundred version as the lower end ones are probably another brands PSU with a PC Power and Cooling sticker on it. I also like Thermaltake and Seasonic, but those are also more a hit or miss type deal where spending more assures quality.
  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by Cleffy
    I would avoid Rosewill PSU. Its not worth it getting burned on a PSU. Rosewill is more of a hit or miss type brand. You will either get garbage or a quality product. The case is good as all Rosewill cases are fantastic. I would lean towards Corsair, Enermax, and Antec PSUs. I also like PC Power and Cooling, they are apart of OCZ and are usually the ones that cost several hundred or are branded as PC Power and Cooling. You will probably want the several hundred version as the lower end ones are probably another brands PSU with a PC Power and Cooling sticker on it. I also like Thermaltake and Seasonic, but those are also more a hit or miss type deal where spending more assures quality.

    Cleffy, I don't know about that, but, I respect your view.  I went to www.hardwaresecrets.com/page/power and www.hardocp.com/reviews/psu_power_supplies when compiling my short lists.  And, while the reviews are a year or so old, Rosewill Capstone was called "excellent" whereas Seasonic G-Series garnered praise like "perfect" and "flawless" in their review.  Should I discount these kinds of reviews?

    A claim of hit and miss is pretty damning in this area.  Is that personal experience speaking?  Afterall, the PC Power & Cooling PSUs in this wattage range are actually made by Seasonic as I understand it.  And, I have no real need to go above the 500W to 600W range and spend much more than $100 on a PSU.

     
  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    I use that exact Seasonic PSU in both of my computers.

    So far they have been great, for the price they are hard to beat. I would recommend them to anyone based on my experience.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    I would definitely trust HardOCP's review.

    If a unit passes their review process, regardless of winning any award, you know it's rock solid.

  • TigsKCTigsKC Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    I use that exact Seasonic PSU in both of my computers.

    So far they have been great, for the price they are hard to beat. I would recommend them to anyone based on my experience.

    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    I would definitely trust HardOCP's review.

    If a unit passes their review process, regardless of winning any award, you know it's rock solid.

    Yeah, I think I will go with the Seasonic G-Series 550RM.  BTW, the HardOCP review concluded as follows:

    The Seasonic G-550 is an excellent power supply that is probably even fighting above its weight class to a degree. As with previous Seasonic offerings of late, this unit did exceptionally well in almost all of our performance metrics. Among these fine performances were truly excellent voltage regulation, excellent DC Output Quality, excellent efficiency, and, to a lesser degree, very good Transient Load Test results. The unit was also extremely quiet and likely a good candidate for quiet cooling environments, even though the fan selected is not as good as those we have seen before in the higher-end Seasonic X-Series.

    Not too shabby.   The only thing they did not like was the user manual.

    Thanks.

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