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Skepticism about selling your creations in Landmark
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
As many have heard, SOE has announced that users will be able to sell their Landmark creations to other players for real money. They even said that you will be able to make royalties on sales of larger creations that incorporate your smaller creation.
Now, while I'm a huge fan of rewarding talented content creators that enrich the community...I can't help to be skeptical of this, for the simple reason that I can't really see the huge need that this content is going to fulfill.
For any business to work, your product needs to fulfill a consumer need...they have to want it, and think it's worth money. For example, look at DOTA 2. In DOTA 2, users create content (usually costumes) and can then sell them on the steam store for real money...this has worked great for many users, and the reason is simple...
Many DOTA 2 players play frequently. They want to differentiate themselves from other players, or get a cool new look for their favorite hero. Thus they are willing to pay real money for a cool new costume. Thus is the need that these costumes fulfill. And this need creates a regular flow of cash that can be distributed to Valve and the user creators.
Now looking at Landmark...where is the need? Do people want to buy new creations just to build something and let it sit? I get that sometimes EQN will incorporate creations into the game...but are they going to pay the creators? And if so, how much? A one-time payment of even $500 or so probably isn't worth it for all the work it will take to make this stuff, it's not like they can somehow sell their creations on the open market.
So right now, the only need that I am seeing the sales of these creations fulfill is the need for other creators to make bigger creations. But honestly, I don't think that's sufficient...there is no consumer endpoint here. You are just selling your creation to other content creators, and this isn't that big of a market. I think in order for this to work, at some point, these creations somehow need to be sold to the players...
I'm not saying that SOE won't come up with some genius business model here, but right now, I'm just not seeing it.
Thoughts? Any ideas on how a successful business model for Landmark could be implemented?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
The creations would have to be sold in EQN, not Landmark. I mean, maybe they could be sold in Landmark, but then Landmark would have to be more of a game and less of a sandbox building zone.
If things are sold in EQN, then they are going to be similar to clothing in DOTA2. The functionality of a wall around a Guild Hall is exactly the same no matter how it looks, but a better looking wall is more desirable. That would be the purpose right there. I don't know if there would be any other purpose at all. People would just want something that looks good, that doesn't take six hours to put together. Instead of trying to build an Ale House, players or guilds can just buy one that already looks good, and that already fits the aesthetic of the server.
I think the things for sale would have to be pretty cheap. Anyone who actually makes money would have to do it on volume, not big margins. I mean, if someone builds an entire medieval town, that's not going to be too cheap, but someone selling an Ale House or a Peasant Hut is going to sell them cheap so they can sell a lot of them. After trying to build a town in Minecraft, I can see how people would rather buy large bits of a town to make a guild village rather than try and build it themselves.
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If Landmark has some sort of PvP meta game, I can see well built fortresses selling very well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah I agree that things would have to be sold on EQN. Selling them on Landmark is just selling to other content creators...there would be no end-market consumer to sell things to on Landmark.
My thought was that they could sell Blueprints for things like player houses or other architectural cosmetic items. I could see a market for this.
However, I would be against selling blueprints that give a gameplay advantage. For example, if someone makes a fortress that has all these weapons and is amazing in PvP....selling that for real money is kind of P2W.
I also agree that things would have to be sold for pretty cheap. I'm thinking maybe $10-$20 for a house, more for bigger items, less for smaller like lawn ornaments, fences, etc.
Anyway, I really hope they implement something like this (selling creations to EQN players). I think it could really enrich the EQN world.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
we need more details -- EQNL is due this winter so will see in the next few months
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/21/gamescom-2013-in-depth-looks-at-everquest-next-and-eq-next-lan/
You can also gather resources, craft items (including better gathering tools), and man an in-game booth to sell stuff to other Landmark adventurers.
You can even sell your real estate on the global marketplace or make a career out of crafting environmental items for other players to use.
EQ2 fan sites
My thought was that they could sell Blueprints for things like player houses or other architectural cosmetic items. I could see a market for this.
However, I would be against selling blueprints that give a gameplay advantage. For example, if someone makes a fortress that has all these weapons and is amazing in PvP....selling that for real money is kind of P2W.
I also agree that things would have to be sold for pretty cheap. I'm thinking maybe $10-$20 for a house, more for bigger items, less for smaller like lawn ornaments, fences, etc.
Anyway, I really hope they implement something like this (selling creations to EQN players). I think it could really enrich the EQN world.
I could have imagined it, but I think the person buying the items will have to supply the materials. So players could buy something that gives all sorts of advantages, but they would still need to supply the materials needed to build it. I also got the impression though that what could be bought was structures, not items like weapons and such. But again, I might have hallucinated that.
Heh. You and I have a very different assessment of "cheap". :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/21/gamescom-2013-in-depth-looks-at-everquest-next-and-eq-next-lan/
You can also gather resources, craft items (including better gathering tools), and man an in-game booth to sell stuff to other Landmark adventurers.
You can even sell your real estate on the global marketplace or make a career out of crafting environmental items for other players to use.
That makes it sound like EQL is the target for sales, at least initially. But then it also sounds like there is going to be more "game" in EQL than I thought too.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Hahah yeah I know my price was kind of high
. My only thought was that most people are probably only going to buy one or two houses, so you couldn't make them too cheap if you wouldn't make anything. Heck, some DOTA 2 sets are like $12 lol 
.
I would definitely like to see smaller items like fountains and fences or whatever for like $1.99.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I don't think they've (I mean SOE) thought their cunning plan all the way through.
If you need to "gather resources" to build something meaningful in Landmark, count me out: I'm not going to spend my time on material grind. Building fraking thing is hard by itself to waste more time on "gameplay".
And without gameplay Landmark is an editing tool.
It seems to me you can either have a proper game or a proper editing tool. Mixing them makes both sux. That's my opinion.
Ah, but you see, part of their cunning plan is to sell materials in their cash shop. Isn't it wonderful? You won't have to grind for resources at all. You can just drop some money in their shop and avoid the grind entirely.
Of course I'm sure they won't intentionally make the grind worse for certain key resources as a way to force people into the cash shop. No....of course not.
Somewhere in another thread, I listed about 2 dozen things I could see SOE monetizing in their cash shop for Landmark alone. I could even see Landmark being a far bigger earner than EQ:N because there would be so many more items they could sell. Materials, textures, colors, prefabricated housing components (from SOE and players). It could get very costly to make the really nice stuff.
But, Landmark is still wait-and-see, just like EQ:N, and the cash shop even more so. It just appears to have the potential for a much more lucrative cash shop.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Having played with Rift's Dimensions for 9 months, I can assert that those who are into building will definitely feel a need to obtain something they want in order to build the perfect whatever. I know players who have spent thousands (!) of dollars on shiny pixels for their fantasy slice of Telara and I have dropped a hundred myself. So yeah, there's a market for this.
Isn't that what Minecraft is, though?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
IIRC you can sell landmark creations to other players to build using your blueprints, this includes in Landmark as well since they specifically mentioned that if your blueprints are used in someone elses work you get a royalty of the ongoing sales.
I can see SOE also letting their pro artists make really great stuff in Landmark on their own time and maybe the companies time to create items that will most likely be top sellers, like a more informal cash shop.
I don't remember them saying anythig about materials/resources being sold in the "cash shop", and I don't know the details of player land in EQnext as far as rules of buying stuff from EQLandmark to import into EQnext.
I think there is definitely equal room for skepticism and interest. If it goes well we can see a "maker movemet" boom for digital items in MMOs, much like the interest people have about 3-D printers...if it goes poorly people will continue shouting obscenities at SOE lol.
PvP has yet to be talked about at all. As of right now there are no PvP areas because they haven't revealed any. However they have said that some structures will be immune to destructiblilty from other players such as player housing.
Right now in Eq2, you can buy stuff for your house.
One of my friends asked me to decorate her house for her once. She just plopped a lot of money into the cash shop, handed over the stuff and I decorated her house for her (for free). I was laughing the whole time because I never once bought furniture off the cash shop so it was fun playing with all her stuff.
If you wander around to a lot of Eq2 player houses you will see that a lot of them do spend money on "items that just sit there." So the market is already there.
Yah I definitely see this market. But the key is that you are selling stuff to players in EQN, NOT Landmark. This is all they need to do I think.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I know my favorite thing to do in minecraft is to tunnel down, then dig long mine tunnels in a straight line until I run I to a dungeon or something. The feeling of exploration will be, even better in eqnl as the environments will be more immersiive.
Yeah, ill spend countless hours digging and tunneling and leveling my lqnd and creating terraces and hopefully canals to a river lake or ocean, stockpiling materials the whole time and loving every minute of it. I think there are a lot of players like me.
i agree
EQNL will support all sorts of themes.. Sci Fi, fantasy, modern, etc.
there will be an area for a Norrath theme too
but thats the only area that's supporting EQN
EQ2 fan sites
Count me in.
The only thing is, I don't know if we're going to be able to do these kind of things to the extent that's it's possible in, say, Wurm Online.
Your permanent terraforming may be restricted to deeded lots, simply because:
a) the resolution of editing is roughly 20 times higher in each dimension than in Wurm Online
b) it's true 3D, as opposed to the "3 layer system" that Wurm uses.
c) you can dig a lot faster than in Wurm
ie they may need to restrict our "infrastructure projects" due to increased need for shipping terrain data from user to user and also griefing potential in "public" spaces.
Exactly.
It wouldn't surprise me if they have multiple server modes for adventurers and pure creators just like Minecraft.
EDIT: They currently say there will be no "Minecraft style creative mode". We shall see.
You won't be able to make weapons in Landmark, Landmark is for medium/large scale terrain and structure sculpting.
What you're talking about sounds more like it would require Player Studio.
@Dandurin
I think you're right about permanent change being limited to the claimed areas. im hoping to find the perfect spot to build on though. I want a plot on a lake shore or sea coast with grassy plains and forest nearby.
That is right. I don't see a reason why I would ever buy someone else's creation for real money or even large amounts of in-game currency.
I like building stuff. I like stuff much more that I made myself and that come from my own creativity. My creations maybe would not be as fancy as the ones on the store, but they would be exactly as I wanted them to be and they are free. Even if like something from the store, I just could just build something myself that looks similar.
This works for you, but people are also lazy, and some people also have more money than time, so it will get use. I myself would probably want to build my stuff also, like in UO, but to a new level. I will have to see more, I am on the fence about all of this. Too many things can go in a good or bad direction for me to have a solid opinion on it.