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Microsoft announces Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2, concludes that tablets need not be low power device
They're better than the original Surface RT and Surface Pro, to be sure. But they're not likely to fare much better, as the competition has gotten better, too. The Surface 2 faces the same problem as the Surface RT: Windows RT, and hence, not much software available. The target audience seems to be people who want to run Microsoft Office on a tablet, but don't want to run much else. They'll probably all buy a Surface 2, which means that it will sell about as well as the original Surface RT.
Meanwhile, the original Surface Pro faced the dilemma that there weren't any viable x86 tablet chips available. Today, there are two: AMD Temash and Intel Bay Trail Atom. So naturally, Microsoft chose neither, going instead with a 15 W Haswell chip. A 15 W chip in a tablet is a bad idea for a variety of reasons, and the $900 price tag without the touch cover that is half the point of the tablet dooms the Surface Pro 2 to sell about as well as the original Surface Pro. At least it will have lower idle power consumption, and hence longer battery life.
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$900? Who in the world is going to spend $900 on a tablet?!? Good grief. I bet they didn't stick a Nvidia 770M chip in there for graphics either, did they. Schmucks.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If you want a discrete video card in a tablet, then that's what the Razer Edge is for. And that's even more expensive. And will get you a "tablet" thicker than some clamshell laptops.
lol better off with a nexus at 125.00
The top-end iPad (Cellular 128G) is $929. It's only running an Apple A6X, and has no discrete graphics. It has ~10hr battery. That is paying the Apple Tax though, but there is a market for a $900+ tablet.
The funny part:
Microsoft is claiming anything from 75% to 2.5x longer battery life on the Pro 2 versus the Pro, but hasn't really released any concrete numbers regarding battery life. Granted, they didn't really release any concrete numbers for the Pro 1 either, just stating that the RT was around 8 hrs, and it was longer than the Pro.
To me, battery life is probably one of the top specs for a tablet. If it's dead, it's useless, and if it weighs more than a brick, it's not going to get carried around. A tablet, for me, needs to pretty well last all day with moderate use and be comfortable enough to carry around with me really noticing that I'm carrying it around.
My personal benchmark is a day of airline travel. A typical cross-country trip for me has, on average, one layover lasting around 45-120min sandwiched between a pair of 3 hours flights, with a waiting period of around an hour after you clear security on the front end of the trip. My iPad can last through all of that playing Angry Birds or reading Kindle, and still have enough juice to play MP3s on the car ride out of the airport.
Most tablets are ok on the weight (the Razer Edge may be out there, I've not picked one up), but the Pro battery life was abysmal and that pretty well turned it into nothing better than a laptop which needed near-constant teathering to a power outlet.
Just seems like anyone interested in the Pro is probably just going to buy a touch screen laptop instead. The whole thing is a novelty really.
Tablets are kind of a novelty as a whole though. I love my iPad 4 but i'll be honest pretty much everything I use it for I could do on my phone too. I never liked laptops though and it's nice having a portable option that's bigger than my phone.
while I don't agree that tablets are a novelty, I use my galaxy note 10.1 for school/work and play, I do agree that if someone was going to buy the pro they would be better off with a laptop. I had the Lenovo ideapad Yoga for a month ( needed a discrete card so I traded in for a bulkier laptop *sadface ) and it was way fkn better than the surface.
Tablets are not a novelty at all. I personally use my Galaxy Note 8.0 on a daily basis for work. Every other rep for the company I work for also uses a tablet pretty much daily.
You do have the segment who use them as an e reader and to play angry birds on the couch. A big segment of the business population use tablets 5+ days a week for work.
Tablets are not going anywhere anytime soon. The business sector will see to that if nothing else.
Spending $900 + on a tablet is for a select few with disposable income that can afford it. That segment wont be booming anytime in the near future. I use my tablet many many hours a week, and I felt bad for spending what I did on mine, which was less than $400.
Must not be terribly computer-intensive work if a tablet can handle it. I'd complain vociferously if my employer so much as tried to take away one of my monitors (yes, plural).
Must not be terribly computer-intensive work if a tablet can handle it. I'd complain vociferously if my employer so much as tried to take away one of my monitors (yes, plural).
He didn't say anything about computer intensive work, He said Business.
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Must not be terribly computer-intensive work if a tablet can handle it. I'd complain vociferously if my employer so much as tried to take away one of my monitors (yes, plural).
He didn't say anything about computer intensive work, He said Business.
The funny thing about computer work. The vast majority of the time working on the computer is spent waiting on the person, not vice versa. Sure, there are a few genuine computer-intensive work loads that pop up in a typical business/workplace- program compile time, graphics touchups, video work, very large cross-linked spreadsheets, work on large data sets. Bust most "computer work" is probably spent reading email, updating light weight documents (<10 pages), and playing on Facebook.
Not everyone runs Nuclear Holicaust weather simulations on a daily basis, most people could get by with a tablet and function fairly well as far as computing power goes - it's just the interface part they typically choke on at first.
I never said anything about computer intensive work. I dont spend my day sitting in a cubicle with facebook on one monitor and excel on another.
I am a sales rep who travels, mainly driving. I use my tablet to email, look up product & pricing for my customers, pull up and show the customer products & pricing while standing there talking to them, document on the fly my sales reports, ect.. I have the Galaxy note 8, so I can write and take notes on the tablet wherever I am.
I also carry a laptop with me to do the more computer oriented work, which for me mainly consists of pricing products and placing them in excel, and a few other company specific reports thats its just easier to do on a laptop vs tablet.
Business covers much much more than cubicle warriors writing code, or whatever it is you do.
Best not to assume or put words in others people mouths.
Edit: The company I work for is not huge compared to some, but we do have around 80 or so reps who use tablets on a daily basis. And the manuf. reps I come in contact with seem to use them quite a bit as well.
I'm surprised Microsoft is still trying to peddle WinRT
for $400 in October, you will be able to buy a 4gig RAM 64gig Win8.1 Tablet
http://liliputing.com/2013/09/asus-introduces-349-transformer-book-t300-convertible-tablet-bay-trail.html
or $349 for the 2gig ram 32 gig version
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If somebody wants to use Office then why would they buy a tablet? Typing anything more than a few sentences on those virtual keyboards is really annoying. Sure you can attach a keyboard but then why not just get a laptop.
Maybe when Steve Ballmer finally retires Microsoft will come to their senses.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Both the Surface and Surface Pro 2 have a display port and are powerful enough to support an external screen!
It has USB 3.0 port(s), so you can Connect pretty much anything to it you want.
In fact, the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 are excellent tablets that performance wise are no less than the average ultrabook.
The only advantage an ultrabook has, is a larger battery, but Microsoft is fixing that With the release of the new battery touch cover.
Add to the fact, that it also has a Wacom digitizer build in, so it supports pressure sensitive pen input like the Galaxy Note.
It can run full blown Windows 8 Pro without a hitch and so you can run all Your programs on it.
So, yes especially for bussiness it´s a great portable work maschine.
Add to the fact, due to the Wacom digitizer, that plenty of Professional artists have found their way to the Surface Pro as well to use as portable on the go drawing tablet.
Especially since Wacom charges 2500 bucks for their new Cintiq Companion With same hardware specs as the first generation Surface Pro (just that it´s a 13 inch, instead of 10.1), makes the surface Pro (2) an excellent affordable alternative.
the pricing is still questionable
w Surface, you only get WinRT
for $400 (half the price), this is the competition -- a hybrid tablet/laptop w win8.1
http://liliputing.com/2013/09/asus-introduces-349-transformer-book-t300-convertible-tablet-bay-trail.html
The Transformer Book T100 features a 1.33 GHz Intel Atom Z3740 quad-core processor with turbo boosts up to 1.86 GHz.
10.1 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel IPS touchscreen display, and Windows 8.1 software.
4GB of RAM, 64GB of storage, a 1.2MP camera, and comes with Microsoft Office Home & Student.
1 micro USB port, microSD card reader, micro HDMI port, and audio jack.
The tablet dock adds a full-sized USB 3.0 port, along with a keyboard and touchpad.
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Thats why they have Surface keyboards, that's part of the thing that makes them good.
Didn´t you even read my post? The surface pro and surface pro 2 both come With a wacom digitizer.
Ehh what? The surface Pro (2) comes With full Windows 8 pro!
The normal surface and surface 2 come With Windows RT and are a lot cheaper.
The Transformer books With Atom processors are crap! The New Bailtrail Atom CPU has still horrible performance. Especially when you want to run full blown Windows on it and run software without horrible lag and performance issues!
The screen is also 720p and not full HD 1080p, like Sufrace Pro (2). It also doesn´t have a Wacom Digitizer.
The reason why Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 are in the price range they are, is because they directly compete With ultrabooks, as they have the same hardware specs. I.e. running full blown Intel CPU´s and not the Atom crap. The build in Wacom Digitizer also adds to the price.
The Asus, Acer and Samsung Windows 8 tablets/convertibles With full blown Intel CPU´s are in the exact same price range as the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2. The Samsung tablets/convertibles are even higher in price.
Sorry, but you have no Clue what you are talking about and comparing Apples With Oranges. /shrug
While the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 will indeed perform identically to Ultrabooks from their respective generations, that's because they use exactly the same internal hardware as an Ultrabook, and just put it in a different form factor. But even if we agree that it's no worse than an Ultrabook (which I wouldn't, as the tablet form factor means that the Surface Pro is vastly more likely to have heat issues if you try to do anything demanding with it), that doesn't necessarily mean much, as I don't see any good reason why anyone would want an Ultrabook.
I don't get why people get all bent out of shape over tablet performance.
Sure it should be snappy enough, and I'm glad they get a bit faster each generation, but inside of a given generation I don't really care if Tablet A can run a benchmark faster than Tablet B - so long as both can run a web browser and basic computational skills without totally choking, I'm ok with that.
What I really care about is battery life, functionality, connectivity, and the ecosystem.
Performance is way down near the bottom of the list when I think of something to carry around with me. If I need performance on the road, I will tunnel into a desktop and make that perform for me remotely.
A tablet that can't get all-day battery life with moderate demand (my travel test, can I fly cross-country with layovers while using the tablet in various ways (watching movies, ebook reader, light gaming, web browsing) and not have to recharge it). If it can't last a day through a charge, it's of limited use and may as well lug around a full laptop and just plug it in everywhere.
A tablet that's unwieldy to carry around, or is awkward to use - bad functionality. If it's a chore to carry around, I won't. If it's a chore to use it, I won't.
A tablet that can't connect is totally useless - for most people it's just WiFi, I usually look for at least 1 cellular option (I'm lucky enough to have a tethering data plan through work, but some people I give advice to don't) available although I don't always recommend it to people based on their actual needs because it is an expensive option. I don't consider peripherals here outside of some extraordinary cases (heavy digital photography people, etc), but I acknowledge some people may. I don't care if a tablet has 14 USB 3.0 ports and 7 miniHDMI ports if I'm never going to use them. If I really need more storage, I'll connect to it over LAN WiFi. If I really want to see my Tablet on TV, I'll stream it via AirPlay/ChromeCast. Tablets are meant to be unwired and carried around, not locked down with a cable, so I don't care if it has ports or not - I care what it can do with me sitting on the the couch/toilet/stuck in traffic with no cables attached at all.
A tablet without the apps you need is useless. A tablet that's full of malware is useless. I'm not a huge proponent of Apple's closed ecosystem, but the availablity of software there is second to none -- Apple flipped the tables on the old Windows argument there (You need XXX OS because that's what all the software runs on). If you need certain software, odds are it runs under iOS - it may or may not run under one of the 15 different Android variants out there, and your hardware may or may not qualify for various Android upgrades. Some people may be fine with a Kindle Fire and the limited Amazon store is more than enough - some people may want a certain flavor of Android. Most people won't go wrong with Apple if they can afford it. If you go out and get some $99 Coby running Froyo your likely stuck with whatever crap Coby bundled with it.
But a tablet that crunches numbers fast, or has super fast graphics over another - if it's at the expense of any of those other 4 things, forget about it, it's not a feature then, it's a detriment in a tablet.
The Surface Pro (and Pro 2) aren't competing against other tablets. They are competing against other full blown laptops. And they don't stack up that well outside of the novelty aspect.
That´s because you are kid at School (presumably) and don´t work yet.
Ultrabooks are no kids toys. They are business Laptops for business People that travel a lot and want to minimize carrying weight and more portability.
I work for a very large IT Company as one of many consultants (10.000 total employees) and I see more People With ultrabooks every single day! Me included.
I am a consultant myself. Have back problems and thus need to reduce carrying weight as much as possible. These 1 kilo ultrabooks were gift from heaven for me. And performance wise they are excellent for work tasks.
And by the way. When I am at work, I work and don´t play games! So I do not need a high performing gaming Laptop at work.
That´s because you are kid at School (presumably) and don´t work yet.
Ultrabooks are no kids toys. They are business Laptops for business People that travel a lot and want to minimize carrying weight and more portability.
I work for a very large IT Company as one of many consultants (10.000 total employees) and I see more People With ultrabooks every single day! Me included.
I am a consultant myself. Have back problems and thus need to reduce carrying weight as much as possible. These 1 kilo ultrabooks were gift from heaven for me. And performance wise they are excellent for work tasks.
And by the way. When I am at work, I work and don´t play games! So I do not need a high performing gaming Laptop at work.
IDK about that not working part, but I can confirm that in our corporate end, smaller laptops are definitly taking over. Not necessarily ultrabooks though. I see a lot more Macbook Pro 15" and Macbook 13" Airs, along with similar sized Asus/HP/Sony models than I do the larger and higher performing options - but these aren't really "Ultrabook" form factor. I don't see very many Eee books or Chromebooks or what you would necessarily classify as "Ultrabook" though, nor do I see a lot of people using touchscreens on a laptop - it's almost always keyboard/mouse, even if the device is touch-capable. Touch kinda sucks for doing spreadsheets.
You don't need a lot of power to do Word or Excel or Outlook, and that's 95% of what our office works with.