Racial traits that add to gameplay and will make min makers think? Yes please.
Give me scaling small percent increases to give the race choice some meaning.
Elves, 3% dodge
Dwarves, 3% less physical damage taken
Humans, 3% resist all
etcetera and so forth, plus add in racial weapon bonuses and unique racial actives and I think that would be more than enough to make up for race class lock outs not being in.
I can't understand why posters are going on about the rights and wrongs of class restrictions. This is about making sure EQNext is easyMMOde. It is not about lore or anything else.
The round table is simply a hype exercise so they can say to sites like MMORPG.com "Hey look we got 6000 posts on one issue". They just ignore what the posters on the roundtable say when it does not fit a easyMMO WoW template.
We heard a load of PR from the conventions about how different this MMO was going to be...right.
Prediction: Not one roundtable thread is every going to result in them choosing a path that is not WoW template easyMMOde. This MMO has already shown its true colours they are not going to deviate from that course.
Normally I would I agree totally with what you have said, but since this is supposed to a sandbox type of game, please tell me how you can have a game without boundaries if they are imposed by things such as class restrictions? IF they were making a themempark then absolutely there better be race/class restrictions, but they have they aren't. Besides, why can't a Dark Elf be a Pally or other good class. I guess all Dark Elves MUST be evil. There are no absolutes in life so why should there be in a game?
First sandbox doesn't mean there are no restrictions. As commented earlier go to a real life sandbox and you will see that your options are limited and the same goes for a virtual one. In addition you might rethink your example for restriction. I know that this is commonly used but its not a racial restriction but a restriction by alignment. I agree with you that thoose restrictions need to go away(but certain races should have to work on being able to change alignment). On the other hand its totally different for physical or mental abilities. Its impossible for a gnome to achieve physical strength and endurance comparable to an ogre(in other words becoming a great warrior). Similar for typical Ogre or Troll and the mage class.
The idea of class restrictions doesn't seem to apply to today's idea of vastly larger pieces of the RPG element. Ten years ago 100% okay because you looked at character creation and it was simple to grasp within 5 minutes. The idea now that dev teams are understanding is to stop leading players by the hand. Open things up and let people do what they want and entertain themselves. It seems to me the genre is changing from Theme park to sandbox.
Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).
Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".
So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?
And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.
Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).
Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".
So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?
And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.
Those slight deviations add up though. one here, another there. So you can simplify the whole matter by saying it's just a slight deviation .. when really the whole game is different.
When MMORPG'ers said they wanted something different, I think they wanted a game with staying power, not a game that one-ups GW2.
As they say, every dog has their day .. SOE will have theirs too (again). Their last release was Wizardry Online right? okie doke..
SOE (as a game developer) last release was Planetside 2
In regards to WO, As "Only" the publisher .. they "Only" released it, They also "Only" westernized it. The game had horrid mechanics and cash-shop related circumventions to help avoid perma-death inflated probabilities of true loss as level went up. The F2P had to sacrifice their equipment, but those who paid could keep their hard earned gear and pay a fee.
SOE "Only" published it with a cash incentive in mind. It flopped.
They did not develop it, you are correct. But they didn't make the game appealing, did they? And if the dev blew chucks, why did SOE even pick that title up? $$$
On Topic: This may give a glimpse into the aspirations of SOE. It's an up-and-coming EA without body or soul, just making stuff for cash influxes. I really love some of the ideas EQN has .. but I wish there was more of a longterm game involved. One I can sink my teeth into for the next several years .. kinda like EQ1.
It's unfortunate people keep trying to distance EQN from EQ1 and buying into SOE propaganda. EQ1 created an intricate world where social mix mattered, and people wanted to log on .. not because they wanted to be the best of the best .. but because someone out there needed them, and was counting on them.
Take social need away, where any one toon can click here to change classes, and race doesn't matter, then you get an enhanced GW2 system where groups only need warm bodies, not anyone specific. No skill? no worries! Just move around and take some punches .. do occasional damage, do a self heal button .. don't forget to spam dodge ... and .. let me press my "I WIN" button .. there we go!
I would hope there is something different between the races, because if it really doesn't matter what you pick what is the point.
You can't use lore anymore because this isn't EQ anymore right? Will this just be a game of mini games who can collect all the class's the fastest. There will be a zillion player made content with no purpose or connection to any kind of lore?
I don't say this to attack the game I am just confused on what this game will be about, people keep saying it is a sandbox, but what makes it a sandbox. Is a sandbox a game where everybody has to be the exact same? Or will it be that it will make everybody different?
So my question is what will link everything together, what is the glue? All other games have some loose story that ties everything? This seems more like a series of calculated systems that their marketing team has come up with.
Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).
Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".
So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?
And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.
Actually you couldn't be further from the truth....There are no other games like EQ1 but there are tons where every character can be any race and class and do everything.....Those are a dime a dozen now....EQN isn't setting a trend its just following what it thinks will make it the most money.....
I would hope there is something different between the races, because if it really doesn't matter what you pick what is the point.
You can't use lore anymore because this isn't EQ anymore right? Will this just be a game of mini games who can collect all the class's the fastest. There will be a zillion player made content with no purpose or connection to any kind of lore?
I don't say this to attack the game I am just confused on what this game will be about, people keep saying it is a sandbox, but what makes it a sandbox. Is a sandbox a game where everybody has to be the exact same? Or will it be that it will make everybody different?
So my question is what will link everything together, what is the glue? All other games have some loose story that ties everything? This seems more like a series of calculated systems that their marketing team has come up with.
This game is about taking ideas of the two hottest games at the moment and trying to make money for SOE....Thats it....
This is just another shallow/stupid mode choice from SOE.
In just about all fantasy game IPs ever made, some races simply do better at some things than others. Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal? Most game systems are sophisticated enough to have rules dealing with those things. But not here.
Of course, it is much easier for the devs to program every race having the same base stats, but it reflects choosing a simpler, more shallow view of game play and game play choices. Considering the lack of game design talent at SOE these design choices might not be wholly voluntary, if they don't have people good enough to handle it, but there is another reason probably more likely.
It shows what SOE thinks about their customers: that they are too stupid to figure out having meaningful racial differences and how to deal with them. Even if having them makes a better game.
It is just SOE trying to put out a product for the lowest common denominator gamer, again. And it is a primary reason I hold little hope for this title.
Why do posters think there will be a robust faction system or a robust anything else? The thinking the EQNext team used for class restrictions will be applied for every issue like this:
-Can a player be disadvantaged and not realise that they are going to be disadvantaged? If YES then don't put it in.-
This is how you build an easyMMode MMO. They are not going to sometimes decided to take a more difficult route as future roundtable threads will prove. In fact I am starting to think after this they may be careful about what questions they ask. This has exposed the way the MMO will be built. They won't want that to happen again, we will probably have more questions like "should female dwarves have beards" now.
at least they didn't lie but it seems silly to ask if they were going to go one way regardless. it's like when a chick you're dating asks "which color shirt should I wear the blue or the green.. you tell her green, then she says "I'm going with the blue" haha. if you have a specific thing in mind don't be a sociopath and ask for a decision just to do the opposite.
Well, I am not so set on them being in there, or not being in there, I voted to have restrictions, because I think it adds to the game, to make things have a little bit of difference or uniqueness.
The disturbing thing is that this now makes the player round tables look like a illusion of input, and that things are pretty much already planned out for the most part, and they will not change anything that they may not be on the fence about.
I worry that this game is going to be so simple and easy, that it will not hold veteran mmo players intrest. I will have to wait and see, but I am not getting a good feeling for this...Everything is about accessibility and such, which I find as a code for simple/easy and very little time needed.
I will just wait and see for the most part, things seem so far off, landmark is coming out, but after they hinted that things were further along, its all adding up to looking like a disappointment.
well at least landmark will aught to be good fun for a t least a couple of years maybe by then soe will take the hint and reboot eq1 with eqnext tech offer it as a seperate game and we will be happy ah blisss it would be .. maybe i would even find myself finding out its 4 am and ive been up all night again! or fall asleep at the keyboard like a certain bard i knew did way back in the day
But soe if you do dont do it like eq2 please make the excuse for the other places being unreachable to be war or something less rediculous ! start around qeynos and freport fill in the map SLOWLY fight dragons and god and ubershit later int he game so uber stuff is uber longericonic bosses that lvl with players so instead of bosses becomeing weak when you lvl your younger raiders might fight their sons/daughters or minions instead of lord nagafen and such. strategys might become known, but bosses never easy due to lvl
Why do posters think there will be a robust faction system or a robust anything else? The thinking the EQNext team used for class restrictions will be applied for every issue like this:
-Can a player be disadvantaged and not realise that they are going to be disadvantaged? If YES then don't put it in.-
This is how you build an easyMMode MMO. They are not going to sometimes decided to take a more difficult route as future roundtable threads will prove. In fact I am starting to think after this they may be careful about what questions they ask. This has exposed the way the MMO will be built. They won't want that to happen again, we will probably have more questions like "should female dwarves have beards" now.
Because they alluded to a robust faction system in the reveal.
I imagine if faction is fluid and fluctuates and you can control it, and if you can 'undo' any mistakes through fun gameplay, it would not fall into the catagory of unknowingly creating disadvantage.
Or it might.
I don't know how it will shake out...hence my use of the word 'maybe'.
Comments
Race specific classes? No thanks.
Racial traits that add to gameplay and will make min makers think? Yes please.
Give me scaling small percent increases to give the race choice some meaning.
Elves, 3% dodge
Dwarves, 3% less physical damage taken
Humans, 3% resist all
etcetera and so forth, plus add in racial weapon bonuses and unique racial actives and I think that would be more than enough to make up for race class lock outs not being in.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I can't understand why posters are going on about the rights and wrongs of class restrictions. This is about making sure EQNext is easyMMOde. It is not about lore or anything else.
The round table is simply a hype exercise so they can say to sites like MMORPG.com "Hey look we got 6000 posts on one issue". They just ignore what the posters on the roundtable say when it does not fit a easyMMO WoW template.
We heard a load of PR from the conventions about how different this MMO was going to be...right.
Prediction: Not one roundtable thread is every going to result in them choosing a path that is not WoW template easyMMOde. This MMO has already shown its true colours they are not going to deviate from that course.
First sandbox doesn't mean there are no restrictions. As commented earlier go to a real life sandbox and you will see that your options are limited and the same goes for a virtual one. In addition you might rethink your example for restriction. I know that this is commonly used but its not a racial restriction but a restriction by alignment. I agree with you that thoose restrictions need to go away(but certain races should have to work on being able to change alignment). On the other hand its totally different for physical or mental abilities. Its impossible for a gnome to achieve physical strength and endurance comparable to an ogre(in other words becoming a great warrior). Similar for typical Ogre or Troll and the mage class.
Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).
Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".
So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?
And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.
Those slight deviations add up though. one here, another there. So you can simplify the whole matter by saying it's just a slight deviation .. when really the whole game is different.
When MMORPG'ers said they wanted something different, I think they wanted a game with staying power, not a game that one-ups GW2.
As they say, every dog has their day .. SOE will have theirs too (again). Their last release was Wizardry Online right? okie doke..
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
SOE is only the publisher for WO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry_Online
SOE (as a game developer) last release was Planetside 2
EQ2 fan sites
In regards to WO, As "Only" the publisher .. they "Only" released it, They also "Only" westernized it. The game had horrid mechanics and cash-shop related circumventions to help avoid perma-death inflated probabilities of true loss as level went up. The F2P had to sacrifice their equipment, but those who paid could keep their hard earned gear and pay a fee.
SOE "Only" published it with a cash incentive in mind. It flopped.
They did not develop it, you are correct. But they didn't make the game appealing, did they? And if the dev blew chucks, why did SOE even pick that title up? $$$
On Topic: This may give a glimpse into the aspirations of SOE. It's an up-and-coming EA without body or soul, just making stuff for cash influxes. I really love some of the ideas EQN has .. but I wish there was more of a longterm game involved. One I can sink my teeth into for the next several years .. kinda like EQ1.
It's unfortunate people keep trying to distance EQN from EQ1 and buying into SOE propaganda. EQ1 created an intricate world where social mix mattered, and people wanted to log on .. not because they wanted to be the best of the best .. but because someone out there needed them, and was counting on them.
Take social need away, where any one toon can click here to change classes, and race doesn't matter, then you get an enhanced GW2 system where groups only need warm bodies, not anyone specific. No skill? no worries! Just move around and take some punches .. do occasional damage, do a self heal button .. don't forget to spam dodge ... and .. let me press my "I WIN" button .. there we go!
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
I would hope there is something different between the races, because if it really doesn't matter what you pick what is the point.
You can't use lore anymore because this isn't EQ anymore right? Will this just be a game of mini games who can collect all the class's the fastest. There will be a zillion player made content with no purpose or connection to any kind of lore?
I don't say this to attack the game I am just confused on what this game will be about, people keep saying it is a sandbox, but what makes it a sandbox. Is a sandbox a game where everybody has to be the exact same? Or will it be that it will make everybody different?
So my question is what will link everything together, what is the glue? All other games have some loose story that ties everything? This seems more like a series of calculated systems that their marketing team has come up with.
Actually you couldn't be further from the truth....There are no other games like EQ1 but there are tons where every character can be any race and class and do everything.....Those are a dime a dozen now....EQN isn't setting a trend its just following what it thinks will make it the most money.....
This game is about taking ideas of the two hottest games at the moment and trying to make money for SOE....Thats it....
This is just another shallow/stupid mode choice from SOE.
In just about all fantasy game IPs ever made, some races simply do better at some things than others. Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal? Most game systems are sophisticated enough to have rules dealing with those things. But not here.
Of course, it is much easier for the devs to program every race having the same base stats, but it reflects choosing a simpler, more shallow view of game play and game play choices. Considering the lack of game design talent at SOE these design choices might not be wholly voluntary, if they don't have people good enough to handle it, but there is another reason probably more likely.
It shows what SOE thinks about their customers: that they are too stupid to figure out having meaningful racial differences and how to deal with them. Even if having them makes a better game.
It is just SOE trying to put out a product for the lowest common denominator gamer, again. And it is a primary reason I hold little hope for this title.
Fairy paladins make more sense to me than Tauren Paladins
traditional d&d had half orc thieves
old school EQ had Barbarian thieves and VahShir thieves (both large races)
EQ2 fan sites
But not without racial penalties.
Should a half-orc thief be as effective as a halfling thief? No way. But none of that matters to SOE.
And that is the point, they have taken out both racial bonuses AND penalties out, in dumbing the whole thing down.
It should not be a surprise: SOE has been making dumbed down games for a while now, in their last several titles.
EQN will be no different, and the removal of any racial stats is just one indication of that.
Maybe there will be a robust faction system helping you to differentiate your character. Small consolation, but there is still some hope.
Why do posters think there will be a robust faction system or a robust anything else? The thinking the EQNext team used for class restrictions will be applied for every issue like this:
-Can a player be disadvantaged and not realise that they are going to be disadvantaged? If YES then don't put it in.-
This is how you build an easyMMode MMO. They are not going to sometimes decided to take a more difficult route as future roundtable threads will prove. In fact I am starting to think after this they may be careful about what questions they ask. This has exposed the way the MMO will be built. They won't want that to happen again, we will probably have more questions like "should female dwarves have beards" now.
Well, I am not so set on them being in there, or not being in there, I voted to have restrictions, because I think it adds to the game, to make things have a little bit of difference or uniqueness.
The disturbing thing is that this now makes the player round tables look like a illusion of input, and that things are pretty much already planned out for the most part, and they will not change anything that they may not be on the fence about.
I worry that this game is going to be so simple and easy, that it will not hold veteran mmo players intrest. I will have to wait and see, but I am not getting a good feeling for this...Everything is about accessibility and such, which I find as a code for simple/easy and very little time needed.
I will just wait and see for the most part, things seem so far off, landmark is coming out, but after they hinted that things were further along, its all adding up to looking like a disappointment.
well at least landmark will aught to be good fun for a t least a couple of years maybe by then soe will take the hint and reboot eq1 with eqnext tech offer it as a seperate game and we will be happy ah blisss it would be .. maybe i would even find myself finding out its 4 am and ive been up all night again! or fall asleep at the keyboard like a certain bard i knew did way back in the day
But soe if you do dont do it like eq2 please make the excuse for the other places being unreachable to be war or something less rediculous ! start around qeynos and freport fill in the map SLOWLY fight dragons and god and ubershit later int he game so uber stuff is uber longericonic bosses that lvl with players so instead of bosses becomeing weak when you lvl your younger raiders might fight their sons/daughters or minions instead of lord nagafen and such. strategys might become known, but bosses never easy due to lvl
"So why would Sony Online Entertainment and the EverQuest Next team fly in the face of their fans?"
Because that's what SOE does. Case in point: Star Wars Galaxies NGE.
Because they alluded to a robust faction system in the reveal.
I imagine if faction is fluid and fluctuates and you can control it, and if you can 'undo' any mistakes through fun gameplay, it would not fall into the catagory of unknowingly creating disadvantage.
Or it might.
I don't know how it will shake out...hence my use of the word 'maybe'.
SOE said some classes are exclusive and do not mix (ie Paladin and SK)
not to be confused w Race
EQ2 fan sites