Originally posted by donpopuki I think the problem is you have a lot of new people playing an MMO for the first time because of the console crossover.
Actually I would say the problem more lay with all the older MMO players who have just gotten used to games where tank threat is infinite and you can just bulldoze through trash, and where the Recount readout means more than winning or losing the dungeon/raid (cough*wow*cough).
Tanks don't have the same toolset here that exists in other games. I usually tank in other games, I can't figure it out in this one yet. I have a healthy respect for those who can tank well in spite of the toolset and in spite of the players - they are clearly better players than I am.
Play marauder/warrior - use AoE attack, when TP is 0, use glad flash. You will never lose aggro.
This, tank and DPS should be AoE attacking the mob in lower level dungeons, you won't die as DPS if you AoE attack mobs unless healer suck, you're just killing everything slower if you kill mobs one by one.
It gets a lot more dangerous after level 35~40+ to AoE everything though, that's when you kill mobs one by one. In lv 50 speed runs, back to AoE everything again.
If a healer is healing a DPS for any reason other than the DPS was hit by an UNAVOIDABLE skill - the DPS is at fault. Period.
Not really, unless DPS went all out before tank even start 1st enmity skill. Then it's DPS's fault.
I can't speak for higher level dungeon, since my tank job isn't that high. But in lower lv dungeon I have no issue getting every mob aggro and keep every mob targeting me only. If DPS isn't using AoE and kill mobs one by one, or even worse, sleep them and waste time, I got angry because they're just killing everything slower.
I don't see a need to sleep mobs and kill them in 123 123 order in lower level dungeons. Tank should get every mob aggro, DPS should kill every mob at once. You're going to finish a dungeon way faster.
If you aren't a high level you shouldn't be questioning someone that is. The strategy you noted with sleeping and whatnot is nonexistant at the end game.
Originally posted by donpopuki I think the problem is you have a lot of new people playing an MMO for the first time because of the console crossover.
Actually I would say the problem more lay with all the older MMO players who have just gotten used to games where tank threat is infinite and you can just bulldoze through trash, and where the Recount readout means more than winning or losing the dungeon/raid (cough*wow*cough).
Tanks don't have the same toolset here that exists in other games. I usually tank in other games, I can't figure it out in this one yet. I have a healthy respect for those who can tank well in spite of the toolset and in spite of the players - they are clearly better players than I am.
Play marauder/warrior - use AoE attack, when TP is 0, use glad flash. You will never lose aggro.
This, tank and DPS should be AoE attacking the mob in lower level dungeons, you won't die as DPS if you AoE attack mobs unless healer suck, you're just killing everything slower if you kill mobs one by one.
It gets a lot more dangerous after level 35~40+ to AoE everything though, that's when you kill mobs one by one. In lv 50 speed runs, back to AoE everything again.
If a healer is healing a DPS for any reason other than the DPS was hit by an UNAVOIDABLE skill - the DPS is at fault. Period.
Not really, unless DPS went all out before tank even start 1st enmity skill. Then it's DPS's fault.
I can't speak for higher level dungeon, since my tank job isn't that high. But in lower lv dungeon I have no issue getting every mob aggro and keep every mob targeting me only. If DPS isn't using AoE and kill mobs one by one, or even worse, sleep them and waste time, I got angry because they're just killing everything slower.
I don't see a need to sleep mobs and kill them in 123 123 order in lower level dungeons. Tank should get every mob aggro, DPS should kill every mob at once. You're going to finish a dungeon way faster.
If you aren't a high level you shouldn't be questioning someone that is. The strategy you noted with sleeping and whatnot is nonexistant at the end game.
Also, your strategy is significantly slower.
sheesh I don't even have an AOE attack on my lancer at low level . Not till lvl 40+ I think
It's DPS. How can anyone stuff that up? Wait for tank to get agro, attack marked mobs in order. The easiest role in a game. You'd think people would know.
I don't like tanking unless it's a dungeon I've done before. I always do a shield chuck before a flash I hope that's right. I only usualy do a tank class when solo'ing or open world.
Just did sunken temple and had DPS who stuffed it up .
about 3rd pull in , a bee patrols room , and at back of room a faceplate and bee linked.
So I mark the patrolling Bee , run forward to pull , and the DPS attacks face plate linked with other bee.
Suffice to say I died to Final Sting trying to save the tard that says afterwards , " that the face plate drops chest ."
to which I reply "I don't care bye". Now he back in the DPS que for another 2 hours .
If he attacked the number I wouldn't have died and the next pull we would've had the chest and complete the dungeon again since I already have done that dungeon 50+ times already .
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
Every once in a while I'll use my +1 to pull agro and tell the tank, they dont know how to keep agro, even after waiting five seconds, and for the life of them, they just cant figure it out.....
maybe what dps are really doing is trying to troll you with thier damage?
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
Marauder - Foresight, Skull Sender, Fracture, Blood Bath, Mercy Stroke (last two optional, first two critical)
Conjurer - Cure, Protect, Raise (last two just quality of life)
This is an honest question: Why CC Skull Sunder? Isn't it just the MRD version of Savage Blade? Looking at the description over, unless I'm missing something, I can't imagine it's doing much of anything since you can't do Heavy Swing -> SS.
Every once in a while I'll use my +1 to pull agro and tell the tank, they dont know how to keep agro, even after waiting five seconds, and for the life of them, they just cant figure it out.....
maybe what dps are really doing is trying to troll you with thier damage?
lol had someone do that but they died couple of times in boss fight couple of hours ago , I pretended to be a n00b at the dungeon when I saw him wearing lvl 90 dungeon . Trolled the troller .
Originally posted by gessekai332 Why do you need to publicize the fact that you are a toxic player? No one cares about your garbage elitist attitude. Dont act like you are actually good at the game when you are just a scrub. If you are a actually good at what you do you will realize sometimes it doesnt matter what stupid crap the dps pull as long as the party doesnt wipe and the dungeon finishes in time. sometimes the dps are good enough that they burn down mobs fast enough it doesnt matter if they pull aggro or are attacking the wrong monster. sometimes the healer doesnt even give a shit either. who also really gives a shit about sleeping anyway, if you are geared enough it doesnt even matter if the mob is wailing on you or what. i've been level 50 on my pld for several weeks now, running end game dungeons and i know for a fact that its players like you that actually make things more difficult than they actually are. instead of yelling at a person you can use that one sentence to set them straight and then the run will end up going smoothly. instead you just leave and waste everyone's time, including yours. good job you for proving that you are entirely clueless. if you are really serious about maximizing efficiency and not wasting time, its common sense to find a guild to group with.
Originally posted by gessekai332 Why do you need to publicize the fact that you are a toxic player? No one cares about your garbage elitist attitude. Dont act like you are actually good at the game when you are just a scrub. If you are a actually good at what you do you will realize sometimes it doesnt matter what stupid crap the dps pull as long as the party doesnt wipe and the dungeon finishes in time. sometimes the dps are good enough that they burn down mobs fast enough it doesnt matter if they pull aggro or are attacking the wrong monster. sometimes the healer doesnt even give a shit either. who also really gives a shit about sleeping anyway, if you are geared enough it doesnt even matter if the mob is wailing on you or what. i've been level 50 on my pld for several weeks now, running end game dungeons and i know for a fact that its players like you that actually make things more difficult than they actually are. instead of yelling at a person you can use that one sentence to set them straight and then the run will end up going smoothly. instead you just leave and waste everyone's time, including yours. good job you for proving that you are entirely clueless. if you are really serious about maximizing efficiency and not wasting time, its common sense to find a guild to group with.
Yes, because giving out tips to help people play better is elitist.
Are you kidding me? From your post I can tell you're the clueless one here, not the OP. You're the type of player the OP is talking about. You run about willy-nilly doing whatever it is you please, pull aggro, stand in the fire, etc. then get pissy with the tank or healer when you die because you feel that following basic MMO dungeon guidelines is beneath you.
Honestly, your post comes off as far more elitist than his. If you're DPS, then you act accordingly & follow the marked targets, don't pull aggro, don't attack CC'd mobs, and let the tank build threat for a few seconds. Period.
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
Marauder - Foresight, Skull Sender, Fracture, Blood Bath, Mercy Stroke (last two optional, first two critical)
Conjurer - Cure, Protect, Raise (last two just quality of life)
This is an honest question: Why CC Skull Sunder? Isn't it just the MRD version of Savage Blade? Looking at the description over, unless I'm missing something, I can't imagine it's doing much of anything since you can't do Heavy Swing -> SS.
out of all those skills listed none would give more agro than the ones paladins already use , I guess blood bath and foresight would allow you to take less dmg which means healer doesn't heal as much causing less agro . But to leave a group because tank doesn't have skull sunder and mercy stroke would be LMAO .
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
Marauder - Foresight, Skull Sender, Fracture, Blood Bath, Mercy Stroke (last two optional, first two critical)
Conjurer - Cure, Protect, Raise (last two just quality of life)
This is an honest question: Why CC Skull Sunder? Isn't it just the MRD version of Savage Blade? Looking at the description over, unless I'm missing something, I can't imagine it's doing much of anything since you can't do Heavy Swing -> SS.
out of all those skills listed none would give more agro than the ones paladins already use , I guess blood bath and foresight would allow you to take less dmg which means healer doesn't heal as much causing less agro . But to leave a group because tank doesn't have skull sunder and mercy stroke would be LMAO .
I called out the optional skills in that list. Foresight is the one that particularly matters, SS is just handy for extra enmity in your rotation.
The cross classes are quite a bit more important for a Marauder than Paladin, but there's no reason why you shouldn't just get those skills from a low level Marauder.
I called out the optional skills in that list. Foresight is the one that particularly matters, SS is just handy for extra enmity in your rotation.
The cross classes are quite a bit more important for a Marauder than Paladin, but there's no reason why you shouldn't just get those skills from a low level Marauder.
You ignored my question. From the description, I'm not seeing how and just seems like a complete waste of the GCD; just using Savage Blade outside the combo will give you the same effect.
But if it's working for you, then more power.
Originally posted by Kuraphimaru
@OP as a scholar you are the worst possible tank I can get. Your whole strategy revolves around the concept that everyone burns down one target while the rest are slept by healer. Well, guess what, scholars DON'T have sleep and you have zero idea how to adjust your tanking habits. In fact, white mages don't have access to it either since it isn't cross-job skill. I've run with your kind before. Here how it goes usually goes.
CNJ/WHM get Repose at level 26 (Sleep), so they do have it, as an FYI.
Personally I don't mark sleep, or even mention it. I mark 1, 2, 3 and BLMs/WHMs sleep 2 and 3 without saying a word. Though I agree sleeping isn't really required in anything yet, it does help out in groups that are not AoE heavy (I've been in a few).
Originally posted by Grailer If healer sleeps a mob that the tank isn't fighting that doesn't mean "WOOHOO TIME TO ANNOY THE HEALER" and hit that target. It means you follow tip 1 and 2 .
This! *sigh* Some parties are giving my grey hair. Do not, I beg you, do not touch the sleeping mobs!
Comments
If you aren't a high level you shouldn't be questioning someone that is. The strategy you noted with sleeping and whatnot is nonexistant at the end game.
Also, your strategy is significantly slower.
sheesh I don't even have an AOE attack on my lancer at low level . Not till lvl 40+ I think
Just did sunken temple and had DPS who stuffed it up .
about 3rd pull in , a bee patrols room , and at back of room a faceplate and bee linked.
So I mark the patrolling Bee , run forward to pull , and the DPS attacks face plate linked with other bee.
Suffice to say I died to Final Sting trying to save the tard that says afterwards , " that the face plate drops chest ."
to which I reply "I don't care bye". Now he back in the DPS que for another 2 hours .
If he attacked the number I wouldn't have died and the next pull we would've had the chest and complete the dungeon again since I already have done that dungeon 50+ times already .
@Grailer:
I'm talking primarily about the end game. The strategies change significantly.
At sub 50, strategy doesn't matter a ton. It's mostly up to the tank. If they cross-classed appropriately, aggro should never be an issue. It's a good question to ask before starting since that dictates what the DPS can do.
At the end-game, those cross class skills are not optional. If your tank doesn't have them, leave. There's no excuse by that point to be sub optimally skilled.
Exactly what cross class skill does a paladin need so that aggro is never an issue ?
http://www.ign.com/wikis/final-fantasy-xiv/Paladin ???
LMFAO.
Every once in a while I'll use my +1 to pull agro and tell the tank, they dont know how to keep agro, even after waiting five seconds, and for the life of them, they just cant figure it out.....
maybe what dps are really doing is trying to troll you with thier damage?
Marauder - Foresight, Skull Sender, Fracture, Blood Bath, Mercy Stroke (last two optional, first two critical)
Conjurer - Cure, Protect, Raise (last two just quality of life)
This is an honest question: Why CC Skull Sunder? Isn't it just the MRD version of Savage Blade? Looking at the description over, unless I'm missing something, I can't imagine it's doing much of anything since you can't do Heavy Swing -> SS.
lol had someone do that but they died couple of times in boss fight couple of hours ago , I pretended to be a n00b at the dungeon when I saw him wearing lvl 90 dungeon . Trolled the troller .
++
Yes, because giving out tips to help people play better is elitist.
Are you kidding me? From your post I can tell you're the clueless one here, not the OP. You're the type of player the OP is talking about. You run about willy-nilly doing whatever it is you please, pull aggro, stand in the fire, etc. then get pissy with the tank or healer when you die because you feel that following basic MMO dungeon guidelines is beneath you.
Honestly, your post comes off as far more elitist than his. If you're DPS, then you act accordingly & follow the marked targets, don't pull aggro, don't attack CC'd mobs, and let the tank build threat for a few seconds. Period.
out of all those skills listed none would give more agro than the ones paladins already use , I guess blood bath and foresight would allow you to take less dmg which means healer doesn't heal as much causing less agro . But to leave a group because tank doesn't have skull sunder and mercy stroke would be LMAO .
How to DPS in "place any random trinity mmorpg name here"
Fixed.
I called out the optional skills in that list. Foresight is the one that particularly matters, SS is just handy for extra enmity in your rotation.
The cross classes are quite a bit more important for a Marauder than Paladin, but there's no reason why you shouldn't just get those skills from a low level Marauder.
You ignored my question. From the description, I'm not seeing how and just seems like a complete waste of the GCD; just using Savage Blade outside the combo will give you the same effect.
But if it's working for you, then more power.
CNJ/WHM get Repose at level 26 (Sleep), so they do have it, as an FYI.
Personally I don't mark sleep, or even mention it. I mark 1, 2, 3 and BLMs/WHMs sleep 2 and 3 without saying a word. Though I agree sleeping isn't really required in anything yet, it does help out in groups that are not AoE heavy (I've been in a few).
This! *sigh* Some parties are giving my grey hair. Do not, I beg you, do not touch the sleeping mobs!